Please revert the Rage change.

[DSorrow]

After some thinking on this, I propose the following changes to Rage:

 

Make it a Hybrid like toggle, but with a fixed 10 second cooldown. Something like -5% Def and -10% Res when active along with the +DMG and +ToHit it currently does, and the Endurance crash when it either toggles itself off after 120 seconds or is toggled off by the user prematurely. Basically this would change Rage to a stance: toggle it on for an offensive boost at the cost of defense when it fits the situation and have it off for when you can't afford the hit in defense. Constantly switching back and forth would be less feasible due to the Endurance crashes and cooldown so you'd have to think ahead about its usage. Finally we have the 10 seconds of cooldown which would give you reduced damage because you're lacking the damage buff, but nothing quite as extreme as what we have now.

[Hopeling]

For a very simple change that affects every set equally: rather than -20% def, give a resistable -res debuff. If it's supposed to be "equal" to -20% def, you'd go for -40% res, but the numbers are negotiable.

 

The mathematics of resistable -res mean that everyone, regardless of secondary, will take 40% more damage during the crash. Inv/ tankers go from 90% to 86%, SR tankers go from 0% to -40%, either way they're taking two-fifths more damage than outside the crash. Ta-da: a defensive penalty that affects everyone proportionally.

 

Maybe this has already been suggested, not sure. I only skimmed the first 22 pages.

Make it a Hybrid like toggle, but with a fixed 10 second cooldown. Something like -5% Def and -10% Res when active along with the +DMG and +ToHit it currently does, and the Endurance crash when it either toggles itself off after 120 seconds or is toggled off by the user prematurely.

I've also been thinking about Rage as a timed toggle. If it's a toggle, it doesn't even need an End crash at the end; just make the toggle cost endurance.

 

For a timed toggle, a 10s cooldown is just an annoyance: it's still on basically all the time, you just have to remember to click on it periodically. For a change like this, IMO either it should be a normal toggle which you can run as long as you want but has a downside like -res, OR it should have no defensive penalty but work Hybrid-style, with eg 2 minutes on and then 2 minutes recharge (enhanceable) and maybe a crash.

[Stormmage]

Here is an incredibly simple solution:

1.  decrease the damage buff from 80% to 11/12 of 80% or 73% (70 or 75 also works) with no damage crash.  That keeps the average total buff the same, but takes out the fun killing 10s time out.

2. Give Rage a continuous 2% def and 4% resistance debuff.  That makes the average total debuff larger than the current, but is manageable.

 

Any idea on what changes the Homecoming team is considering or a time line?

Thanks.

 

[MalphiteMeIRL]

If the coding is weird and it's difficult to remove the -def crash they could either change the number to 0 or add a 20% defense buff during the crash. Effectively negating it and letting it mimic how the devs decided to leave it on live. (After they had extensively tested it with the -def included I should add)

 

I still stand by the fact that SS was fine without it and would be a much easier fix rather than doing complicated sweeping changes. Seems like everyone just wants to leave their creative mark on the powerset for whatever reason.

[Vanden]

If the coding is weird and it's difficult to remove the -def crash they could either change the number to 0 or add a 20% defense buff during the crash. Effectively negating it and letting it mimic how the devs decided to leave it on live. (After they had extensively tested it with the -def included I should add)

 

I still stand by the fact that SS was fine without it and would be a much easier fix rather than doing complicated sweeping changes. Seems like everyone just wants to leave their creative mark on the powerset for whatever reason.

 

There's no reason to think that the Def debuff can't be removed from the power. I agree that there's a lot of people here that seem to want to reinvent the Rage wheel for no good reason; simply removing the Def debuff seems fine to me.

[Profit]

I think I finally nailed down my whole issue with this.

 

Everyone in here wants to fix rage because 'it's to hurtful while I play'. Ok, I get it, you guys don't like the debuff. So here is the issue, the original devs never intended for Rage to be a perma power. It was meant to be turned on in tough fights to help clear a little quicker.

 

Now... here is my whole problem. Because you guys are gonna come in here and say, 'at some point we need to let go of what the original devs intended'. And I agree. But the moment I pop up and question the AE xp nerf I get told, 'the original devs never intended AE to be equal to mission content so the XP nerf is good and right.'

 

This is my problem, all of you want it both ways, you want to ignore original intent when it suits your purpose or prop it up as a holy relic when it suits your purpose. That is going to lead to us never coming up with an acceptable way rage 'should' work until we all either decide that original intent means something or screw original intent.

 

So which way are we going on this, original intent means something and should be applied to everything equally or original intent needs to be dropped and we need to look at all things fresh? Because we can't have our cake and eat to and accomplish anything here.

[Vanden]

I think I finally nailed down my whole issue with this.

 

Everyone in here wants to fix rage because 'it's to hurtful while I play'. Ok, I get it, you guys don't like the debuff. So here is the issue, the original devs never intended for Rage to be a perma power. It was meant to be turned on in tough fights to help clear a little quicker.

 

This is demonstrably untrue.

[Profit]

I think I finally nailed down my whole issue with this.

 

Everyone in here wants to fix rage because 'it's to hurtful while I play'. Ok, I get it, you guys don't like the debuff. So here is the issue, the original devs never intended for Rage to be a perma power. It was meant to be turned on in tough fights to help clear a little quicker.

 

This is demonstrably untrue.

 

Which part is untrue?

[Vanden]

I think I finally nailed down my whole issue with this.

 

Everyone in here wants to fix rage because 'it's to hurtful while I play'. Ok, I get it, you guys don't like the debuff. So here is the issue, the original devs never intended for Rage to be a perma power. It was meant to be turned on in tough fights to help clear a little quicker.

 

This is demonstrably untrue.

 

Which part is untrue?

 

The part about them not intending it to be perma. In places where a power isn't supposed to be perma, the recharge is always much too long for that to be possible. You could make the case that some permable powers are not actually intended to be perma, since they require heavy recharge set bonuses, but that's not the case with Rage.

[Profit]

I think I finally nailed down my whole issue with this.

 

Everyone in here wants to fix rage because 'it's to hurtful while I play'. Ok, I get it, you guys don't like the debuff. So here is the issue, the original devs never intended for Rage to be a perma power. It was meant to be turned on in tough fights to help clear a little quicker.

 

This is demonstrably untrue.

 

Which part is untrue?

 

The part about them not intending it to be perma. In places where a power isn't supposed to be perma, the recharge is always much too long for that to be possible. You could make the case that some permable powers are not actually intended to be perma, since they require heavy recharge set bonuses, but that's not the case with Rage.

 

To keep rage from being perma'd it was saddled with heavy debuffs akin to a t9 crash. Even the end debuff in hasten wasn't initially there until the invention sets truly allowed perma hasten, then the end debuff was added to discourage it from being perma'd.

[Galaxy Brain]

I really like the earlier idea that got brought up where rage just gave you -res/def while it was active, and cost endurance when it crashed. That is essentially what Bio's offensive mode is all about sans the endurance cost, but I think that would probably be more in line thematically and mechanically fun to toy with.

[OldSchool SC Fight Club]

No way, leave it as is.... Rage was meant to have a draw back for the enormous boost you get in the first place. Having to do a little strategy and possible move your hand up a few inches to hit F1 or whatever is assigned to your insp tray to account for the def loss isn't that hard to do. With all the incarn-easy stuff that has swamped the difficulty in this game... a mere rage drop shouldn't be a problem. I have 3 toons with Ss and while it sucks to have it drop in the middle of a fight... it isn't fight ending for me.. Also, considering I can stack rage 3 times..the drops hurt even more..

 

No..... don't take a strategic element out of the game... learn to play with drawbacks.

[kelly Rocket]

It would be an "enormous boost" on any other power set. But SS damage is crap. SS is literally balanced around having perma-rage.

[OldSchool SC Fight Club]

I have zero problems with it crashing... On my ss/stone, ss/sr, and ss/wp... It is annoying...but it isn't build breaking..

[kelly Rocket]

That's nice for you, but my SS/Shield on Live was my favorite toon... And I would never build him again as long as the defense crash remains unavoidable like it is now (And never was on Live).

 

I refuse to have to carry a tray full of purples that won't even be enough to finish out really long missions, just to play that toon again.

 

NO powerset combo should ever have to rely on insps to function properly.

[Midnight Rose]

I would favor any change that got rid of the damage crash.  It just makes the game less fun.  Fun is the goal of a game after all.  ;)

[Galaxy Brain]

No way, leave it as is.... Rage was meant to have a draw back for the enormous boost you get in the first place. Having to do a little strategy and possible move your hand up a few inches to hit F1 or whatever is assigned to your insp tray to account for the def loss isn't that hard to do. With all the incarn-easy stuff that has swamped the difficulty in this game... a mere rage drop shouldn't be a problem. I have 3 toons with Ss and while it sucks to have it drop in the middle of a fight... it isn't fight ending for me.. Also, considering I can stack rage 3 times..the drops hurt even more..

 

No..... don't take a strategic element out of the game... learn to play with drawbacks.

 

Incarnate is an X factor and does not play into the lifetime of a set. Same with inspirations.

[@T3h Ish]

Sets are designed to be played with, and balanced around SOs. This to be taken into account whenever balancing a set or reworking a set to bring it to a point where it can function.

 

SS as it works right now, sort of functions, due to the lower-DPA/DPS nature of its attacks, and essentially only functions decently / well due to Rage.

 

So, either the powers need to be adjusted appropriately in terms of base damage, the attacks given an AoE like Rad Melee is with successive hits to help with it's lack of AoE outside of Foot Stomp.

 

Rage should I think, function kind of like how the Adaptations do for Bio Armor, except being on-use ability, rather than a toggle, activating it gives a flat -10% all res except Psi, -10% all def since you're recklessly going into battle, or focused on only hitting the enemy as HARD as possible.

 

Giving it some -recover or flat endurance increases for SS attacks, which can be mitigated by either picking a set where it gives you additional recovery, or grants endurance based on say, Consume, Power Sink, or simply SOing more endurance reduction in the attacks, or additional recovery enhancements into Stamina, and furthermore enables the small PbAoE's for it's Single Target attacks / +damage boost, with the damage crash applying whenever the buff falls off, and can no longer be stacked, retaining the enormous boost in damage / ToHit, with the base increases to the individual powers to begin with to compensate for the loss of stacking.

 

I think this would be a middle ground between most of the suggestions put forth so far.

[Vanden]

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Rage doesn’t need a huge rework like the ones people keep proposing in this thread.

[Burnt Toast]

It didn't need changed in the first place. The original devs recognized this and had NO PLANS to implement the -Defense aspect of the rage crash. This whole issue is the HC "devs" doing. This issue was debated for MONTHS on Live between the development and beta testing community and was resolved with leaving the -Def aspect out of Rage crash. I have lost complete faith that anything will be done to Rage and that the HC is actually less inclined to listen to players than the original devs (who were at times completely stubborn on issues).

 

The HC team seems to like to do things without looking at the actual effect it will have on players...and then backtracking if it is easy to do so...when people complain. This issue alone has caused a lot of grief for many veteran players...quite a few who have abandoned the game. I had a SS toon on Live - while it was not my main.. I do miss playing them, but see no sense in recreating a gimped version of them that requires Incarnates or a constant supply of purples to perform near what they did before this poorly implemented "solution."

 

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Rage doesn’t need a huge rework like the ones people keep proposing in this thread.

[Jeuraud]

The HC team seems to like to do things without looking at the actual effect it will have on players...and then backtracking if it is easy to do so...when people complain. This issue alone has caused a lot of grief for many veteran players...quite a few who have abandoned the game.

 

Back off the HC Devs,

they are Gamers just like the rest of us, and they don't answer to you, and don't have to answer you. They are not selling you a product, they are providing you a place to play CoH, for free.

Yet the HC Devs have stated numerous times in this thread that the 'Fix' to Rage was not a fix directed at Rage, and have stated that there is interest in Rage, so they are willing to talk with us about CoHH and their changes.  From what I've seen so far their changes are pretty positive, and I would not be surprised to find out that there are some CoHV Devs hidden in their group.

 

You don't like what the HC Devs have done, then state it, along with potential fixes. Argue with the rest of us, that's fine, hells argue with the CoHH Devs,

but you don't disrespect them.

If it's bad enough, walk, there are supposed to be other CoH groups out there; hells, make your own little CoH playground. Or was this show of disrespect, your words as you were walking out of the CoHH door? Well you know what they say about doors and backsides.

 

This comes from a veteran player who does not give a fuck about Rage, and never has. A veteran player who does have an opinion about the people who are crying, now that they have to pay the price that the description says they have to pay. A veteran player who has read 23 pages of crying, and chosen not to say anything... up till now.

 

Note, I think that a mix of Resistance and Defense Debuff would be fair.

[Vanden]

The HC team seems to like to do things without looking at the actual effect it will have on players...and then backtracking if it is easy to do so...when people complain.

 

You seem to have extrapolated a whole lot about how the Homecoming devs operate from the... one? balance patch they've put out since bringing the game back.

[Burnt Toast]

1. I do not need to back off the HC Devs. When they do a screw up they should be called out on it. I am utterly grateful for the work they have done in bringing back and maintaining the game, but that doesn't absolve them from the mess they created when they "fixed" a bug. They knew the effect it would have on Rage and yes ... they knew that this effect was not wanted by the playerbase...and yet they did it anyways. So no I will not back off calling out something which could have easily been avoided...or fixed immediately afterwards. Just because I am grateful does not mean I cannot complain about the methodology/actions of the development team.

 

2. I do not care that you are a veteran player. I played from day 1 to the last second. I beta tested for 17 issues. I had meetings with original devs regarding powersets. I was actively involved in the creation and modification of numerous powersets including Rage which was debated over the course of many issues. The -Defense crash was not something that; regardless of description, was ever implemented and for good reason.

 

Nowhere did I say the devs were incompetent....etc etc.. what I said was they tend to make decisions without input and without considering the effects it will have on the playerbase...if you consider that disrespectful you may want to upgrade to a thicker skin. The Rage issue has been one since HC launched (actually before when we were on SCoRE) and has not been resolved. 20+ pages - mainly in support of making changes to Rage to make SS on par with other sets... should tell you this is an issue that many do care about.

 

I am one of the biggest cheerleaders of HC, BUT that does not mean I do not see the flaws in SOME of their internal methodologies; especially those which have affected so many people.

 

Sit down.

 

 

The HC team seems to like to do things without looking at the actual effect it will have on players...and then backtracking if it is easy to do so...when people complain. This issue alone has caused a lot of grief for many veteran players...quite a few who have abandoned the game.

 

Back off the HC Devs,

they are Gamers just like the rest of us, and they don't answer to you, and don't have to answer you. They are not selling you a product, they are providing you a place to play CoH, for free.

Yet the HC Devs have stated numerous times in this thread that the 'Fix' to Rage was not a fix directed at Rage, and have stated that there is interest in Rage, so they are willing to talk with us about CoHH and their changes.  From what I've seen so far their changes are pretty positive, and I would not be surprised to find out that there are some CoHV Devs hidden in their group.

 

You don't like what the HC Devs have done, then state it, along with potential fixes. Argue with the rest of us, that's fine, hells argue with the CoHH Devs,

but you don't disrespect them.

If it's bad enough, walk, there are supposed to be other CoH groups out there; hells, make your own little CoH playground. Or was this show of disrespect, your words as you were walking out of the CoHH door? Well you know what they say about doors and backsides.

 

This comes from a veteran player who does not give a fuck about Rage, and never has. A veteran player who does have an opinion about the people who are crying, now that they have to pay the price that the description says they have to pay. A veteran player who has read 23 pages of crying, and chosen not to say anything... up till now.

 

Note, I think that a mix of Resistance and Defense Debuff would be fair.

[Dreng]

Long time reader of this thread. The only thing I care to see changed about Rage is the negative damage effect. I think its coded as -9999% that number may be way off, but I would like to see that percentage brought down to something reasonable like say -33% damage for the next 10 seconds.

 

As a SS main, when rage drops the fact that I basically stand there and do nothing just makes it boring. If I am in a team, I will use my taunt but the rest of the 8 seconds still leaves me idle or pressing Brawl. I think SS is a great and fun set, the only thing holding back the fun factor is that massive damage drop off. If brought down to 30% or so one could just pop Enrages to fill in that gap. Endurance crash is fine and the Defense debuff honestly I dont notice because I am popping inspirations when it drops.

 

Now i do think it needs a mix of defense and resistance debuff on the drop but the resistances to the debuffs should take effect.

[Stormmage]

I concur that the primary concern I have is the 10s damage timeout.  It would be more fun, in my view to just lower the buff and drop the damage buff.  SS needs rage because without it, it is badly under powered.