Calling Bill Z Bubba - Claws / SR

[Lockpick]

I've finally decided to try Claws / SR mainly based on posts from Bill Z Bubba indicating his love for the combo.  I'm trying to decide whether to do Brute, Scrapper, Stalker, or Tank.  Anyone got suggestions or recommendations?  Pros / Cons?

[drbuzzard]

 

 

This question does beg what your circumstances are. Are you new to HC, or are you well endowed in resources? One advantage of a SR/Claws tank is that you can softcap without even using IOs. That's a pretty nice luxury if you're poor.

 

If you're in it for the damage, I'd say scrapper is your best bet. Follow Up is the cornerstone of the set (allowing a substantial permanent damage boost), and leveraging that with the biggest damage scalar available makes the most sense to me. I would generally advocate stalkers over scrappers myself (their controlled crits are devastating, though they usually give up AOE for it), but they have build up instead of follow up, and that really detracts from the set (and they give up some good AOE). With the resources softcapping a SR scrapper is not overly arduous.

Edited May 14, 2021 by drbuzzard

[Snarky]

Brutes and Tanks (in my opinion) benefit greatly from Resist and Health based sets.  SR....ain't that.  As was stated above going with something that benefits more from the core power of the sets like Scrapper or Stalker would seem more effective.  Having said that I have never ran SR and have only tinkered with claws.  So, theoretical.

[fitzsimmons]

An SR tank is fun (any SR really) because of the extremely high defense debuff resistance (DDR).  95% for a tank I think.  So if you're built for at least 5% over softcap for your positional defenses, the Cimerorans (as an example) can't take you out.  There's no cascading failure.  It's pretty sweet.

 

Numbers for Brutes, Scraps and Stalks are slightly different.

 

To test it out I sat in a large group of +4 Cimerorans while I was in a meeting.  My health didn't drop below 25%.

 

For non-S/L where his resists may not be as high, if he gets hit he takes a wallop but for standard trash mobs and such, it's fun.

 

Regards,

Dave

[arcane]

I think he has said before that tank is his favorite for that setup. And my SR/BS tanker is one of my favorite melee characters, so I’m inclined to think he’s right.

[arcane]

35 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Brutes and Tanks (in my opinion) benefit greatly from Resist and Health based sets.  SR....ain't that.  As was stated above going with something that benefits more from the core power of the sets like Scrapper or Stalker would seem more effective.  Having said that I have never ran SR and have only tinkered with claws.  So, theoretical.

Counterarguments:

 

- SR becomes a resistance set at low HP, and you will get over the scrapper cap and up to the brute/tanker caps if you are actually at really low health.

 

- SR fears hefty burst damage since it’s resistances have to kick in for full protection. Tanker HP mitigates that threat.

 

- Tankers love Procs. SR loves procs since it needs almost no enhancements. Match made in heaven.

 

I only have SR on Sentinel and Tanker, so could be wrong, yes. BUT my SR tanker can AFK in a broad range of enemy groups sooo... I recommend it.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Stalker claws is garbage, so with that properly tossed out the window, here's my take on the other three.

 

... I love all 3. Both the tank and brute Bills can AFK with an aggro cap's worth of Cimerorans beating on their heads and be immortal but the scrapper Bill is a whirling dervish of death dealing that will always be #1 even if he can't pull off what the tank can.

 

I'm not sold on the proc situation when concerning claws. I did a full-tilt proc build with my claws/bio scrapper on the test server and only gained around 10 seconds for a pylon run. The loss in mitigation simply wasn't worth it. That said, Arcane's point was specifically about going proc-monster with an SR tank since it needs so little for extra mitigation and there may be something to that but I built all three of mine more or less equitably to see how they compare while doing max diff ITFs. All three can get through it without dying, but that damned autohit fluffy messes the scrapper up, makes the brute wary, while the tank just giggles and ignores it.

 

I prefer to solo with the scrapper but the constant fleeing of enemies is often a nuisance. Even with that, though, his clear all times greatly exceed those of his tougher selves.

The tank I'll bring out for SG stuff and ITF solo runs.

The brute, interestingly enough, is the one I actually prefer to team with because that middle space of overall performance plus taunt, a taunt aura, and the brute's ability to get really ripped from buffs works very well.

 

So... whirling dervish of death or unkillable god?

[arcane]

Yeah, my SR tanker literally has the three toggles 3-slotted and the rest 1-slotted. A whopping 6 extra slots invested in my whole primary powerset. THAT.. is completely unparalleled and opens up the build wonderfully. That’s what I meant about the procs. Normally procs pull away from everything else you need to enhance... but an SR tanker barely needs enhancements. Basically the build was so wide open I could proc out my main attacks but still get set bonuses because I had the bandwidth to toss purples in Brawl and Boxing.

Edited May 14, 2021 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

Regarding SR being a defense set, it's a hybrid thanks to the scaling resists. Every bit of DR you can add to the build is that much more stacking on the scaling DR and every bit of extra HP will add to the overall benefit of it. And, as mentioned, capped DDR is glorious even if your build sits at exactly 45% defense.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Brutes and Tanks (in my opinion) benefit greatly from Resist and Health based sets.  SR....ain't that.  As was stated above going with something that benefits more from the core power of the sets like Scrapper or Stalker would seem more effective.  Having said that I have never ran SR and have only tinkered with claws.  So, theoretical.

 

SR is a great set on Brutes and Tankers though.  

 

On Brutes it is what I wish it was on Scrappers.  Perfect power progression plus Taunt Aura. 

 

On Tankers, SR matures super early.  So you FEEL like it isn't getting much stronger over time.  But that's just because you are at the Softcap while doing Posi and Synapse. 

[Haijinx]

17 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Regarding SR being a defense set, it's a hybrid thanks to the scaling resists. Every bit of DR you can add to the build is that much more stacking on the scaling DR and every bit of extra HP will add to the overall benefit of it. And, as mentioned, capped DDR is glorious even if your build sits at exactly 45% defense.

 

And with Tanker or even Brute HP there is enough cushion there that even if you get tagged into the red, you are pretty much in no danger.   

 

With Tough and Set bonuses + unique resist IOs you will be capped to S/L Resist with a fair amount of HP left.  

[nihilii]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

SR....ain't that.

SR is bonkers on Tankers.

 

Scaling resistances + Tough and IOs will put you often at the 90% S/L cap, once your life goes down. If you add any source of healing, a SR Tanker is basically the most survivable character in the game against S/L damage, between 59%+ defense (incarnate softcap), capped DDR (defense never goes down) and capped resistance.

 

So OK, that's at high level. What about at low levels? Well, SR Tankers get to 45% defense very fast. Many of us are used to the softcap at level 50, and it already feels nice. But at level 22? With high defense debuff resistance already? It's downright hilarious. Enemies simply aren't equipped with the firepower to penetrate that. You dodge just about everything, which combined with the likelihood you'd be running +0 to +2 rather than +4, makes it possible to handle team-sized spawns on just the regen provided by Health.

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

What they said.

 

Another note about SR and its scaling DR.... don't fear the yellow health bar. Hell, don't even fear it when you're dipping into the red. Ride it out. Get the feel down for when it's actually necessary for some kind of action, be it eating a green or an orange to slow things down more, or pop rebirth +regen. The more you ride that edge, the more you'll see why so many of us love SR.

[Haijinx]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

What they said.

 

Another note about SR and its scaling DR.... don't fear the yellow health bar. Hell, don't even fear it when you're dipping into the red. Ride it out. Get the feel down for when it's actually necessary for some kind of action, be it eating a green or an orange to slow things down more, or pop rebirth +regen. The more you ride that edge, the more you'll see why so many of us love SR.

 

These people who take Heals on SR perplex me.  Where do they get all these power picks from?  And WHY? 

 

Just ... you'll regen in plenty of time.   Just keep hitting things.   If you are a scrapper, maybe kite for a little bit if you are ascardey. 

 

The only heal SR needs is a Knockdown AOE attack.   Shockwave in this case will do nicely. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

These people who take Heals on SR perplex me.  Where do they get all these power picks from?  And WHY? 

 

Just ... you'll regen in plenty of time.   Just keep hitting things.   If you are a scrapper, maybe kite for a little bit if you are ascardey. 

 

The only heal SR needs is a Knockdown AOE attack.   Shockwave in this case will do nicely. 

 

In my case, I went rebirth on the tank and brute because the added regen allows for some truly silly stuff. Stuck with barrier on the scrapper, though.

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

In my case, I went rebirth on the tank and brute because the added regen allows for some truly silly stuff. Stuck with barrier on the scrapper, though.

ahh well Incarnate heals ... 

 

La-de-da.  When you heal with that do you have to hold your pinky up?  

 

[Haijinx]

Back to the OP's question though.

 

My favorite Claws/SR was a Brute.  But that was before ATOs.  

 

ATOs seem like they make a big difference here.  Still the Brute has really great level progression, making the character great for exemping.  And of course Taunt Aura. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

ahh well Incarnate heals ... 

 

La-de-da.  When you heal with that do you have to hold your pinky up? 

 

Lol. and correction: It's the rebirth +HP. Which in turn increases regen anyway.

 

Further correction: Man, I must not be braining properly at all. The brute has ageless and barrier T4ed but the rebirth is only T2. Need to fix that and I see that I haven't respeced him yet either, meaning he doesn't have the heightened Nrg/Neg DR that the tank does. Ooops. The tank is running a T4 rebirth +regen.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[Lockpick]

7 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Back to the OP's question though.

 

My favorite Claws/SR was a Brute.  But that was before ATOs.  

 

ATOs seem like they make a big difference here.  Still the Brute has really great level progression, making the character great for exemping.  And of course Taunt Aura. 

 

How would ATOs change it for you?

 

I'm still struggling on the pick.  I dropped the Stalker idea, but I have never played a Brute or Tanker to 50, so leaning to one of them.  Then again the Claws/SR scrapper seems classic.

[drbuzzard]

36 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

 

How would ATOs change it for you?

 

 

The scrapper ATOs are basically transformational doing a massive damage increase to the AT. The brute ones are meh. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

The tank AT IO chance for +damres helps SR considerably, though. Mmmmmm, layered mitigation....

[drbuzzard]

Yes, and the stalker ones that refresh build up or put you back into hide to crit again are also excellent. 

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Lockpick said:

 

How would ATOs change it for you?

 

I'm still struggling on the pick.  I dropped the Stalker idea, but I have never played a Brute or Tanker to 50, so leaning to one of them.  Then again the Claws/SR scrapper seems classic.

 

The ATOs increased the damage gap between Scrapper and Brute. 

 

Still the Brute will do decent damage, since Claws is one of the better primaries.   And of course SR is one of the few defense sets where you will spend a fair amount of the time with Capped S/L Resist due to the scaling.   Making you basically unkillable to most things.  Teaming with Thermal or Sonic Defenders would also be interesting. 

[Sovera]

Everything has been said already, but the question always boils down to: more damage or more survival?

 

I haven't done SR Tanker because I'm too damage oriented and tbh I can do everything on a 'squishy' Fire Armor, but it seems like the best blend with easy access to resistance and better defensive numbers. But you'll be slow(er) to chop things down than a Scrapper.

 

My own experience with SR Scrapperinos were that they got devoured in farm maps (for testing purposes, not because it's the AT/combo to farm with). 5% hits add up quickly when at agro saturation for minutes. BUUUUUT the real game is not about being at agro saturation for minutes and Bill has a different experience on this than mine.

 

I would personally do Rad Melee with SR on a Tanker. The heal is completely nuts when franken slotted. 25% HP every time we are hitting something contaminated? That's nuts, and can be forced with Fusion.

[siolfir]

2 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

Yes, and the stalker ones that refresh build up or put you back into hide to crit again are also excellent. 

Right, but I'd recommend a different set than Claws if you're playing a Stalker. As stated earlier, it's the worst version of the primary.

Edited May 15, 2021 by siolfir
said -> stated