Merits: How to drum up redside activity

[KauaiJim]

Didn't read this whole thread but I'll admit that I currently play blueside almost exclusively.  In live I was split about 60% blue 40% red.  My redside 'main' was my mastermind 'Cybro' who I managed to level up (somehow).  In SWToR I have around 30 maxed out toons and they are pretty even across light and dark.  So I gave some thought as to why I'm playing this way on HC.

 

For a person like me, the pull to blueside is mostly that it falls in line with how I feel (mostly).  Like all human beings I have both good and evil feelings, however at this time in my life I am leaning heavily toward good.  Mostly because I feel like in r/l 'team evil' has PLENTY of recruits lately.  Just some of my personal motivation now that I think about it.  The counterpoint to this is that sometimes the 'goody two shoes' thing goes over the top too so perhaps some 'balance' wouldn't hurt.

 

Redside has plenty going for it in CoX and the content and story are really pretty good.  It just has that feel sometimes that I don't want to feel at this point.  That said, I think this thread is making me consider making a small handful of redside toons.  I do miss some of the missions and zones and even occasionally feeling like a bad guy who just doesn't give a rats...

 

Another thing I think might be off putting to some is the zones feel more difficult to get around in to me and npc's and other locations seem awkward to find.  Back when I played it on live I was getting around pretty well so maybe I'm just getting old (and frankly, lazy). 

 

Lastly, there seems to be a 'mindset' that accompanies these different sides and attracts players with certain behaviors (I guess in my mind similar to pvp).  There is not a thing wrong with that - I just can't relate much right now.

 

Summary of why I'm playing blueside right now:

 

1)  I can 'relate' better right now to the good guys

2)  I'm getting plenty of bad behavior (evil) in r/l so I need the 'escape' even if it can be a bit goody-goody

3)  Laziness / convenience

4)  'live and let live' player mindset vs 'live and let die' player mindset

5)  I've got such a 'monster' going with all of my toons on HC and everything I am trying / doing from building an absolutely huge SG (both indoor and outdoor) to creating backstories/bios to tweaking builds and on and on (lol)...  reliving redside will be on my plate, eventually... 

 

None of those things mean there is anything wrong with redside at all - in fact it's really well designed.  I'm curious myself why there aren't more folks playing redside here but I have to admit that I am one of them.  Seems to me even on Live though it was a lower population iirc.

 

I was going to pop in here with a joke like "Maybe if there was no blueside available redside might get a small boost!" lol, but in all seriousness I honestly don't know what can be done to make redside more enticing.  It is good content that folks should not overlook.  

 

Will think about making a redside 'stable' down the road though because this thread made me realize I'm overlooking a big chunk of the game.  👍

[golstat2003]

On DCUO the heroic population dwarfs the villain pop there also. Take that for what you will.

[VulnaviaPhibes]

I always go evil if a game will let me (DCUO has some very nice villain missions), but yeah, it definitely seems like the less popular choice. The only MMO I can think of that's an exception is AQWorlds, where the evil faction is so overwhelmingly popular that the developers completely abandoned any kind of good vs evil competition and events just have various evil sub-factions competing among themselves. Even the story has sidelined the good guys in favor of a dark, sprawling evil-vs-evil plot, since most players are just so profoundly disinterested in being heroes. (The game is famous for hosting live emo/goth concerts so that might be an influence on the kinds of players they get, to be fair.)

[Xenosone]

People are self absorbed, selfish, arrogant, lusting for ppwer in real life why not play a super hero for a bit to get away from being themself? So this is why redside will always be light on population

[Snarky]

19 minutes ago, Xenosone said:

People are self absorbed, selfish, arrogant, lusting for ppwer in real life why not play a super hero for a bit to get away from being themself? So this is why redside will always be light on population

No Nein Nyet Not even!

 

Well, maybe.

 

But seriously.  Redside is just the most immersive.  The goal of most video games is to kill things and take their stuff.  People are...everything you pointed out.  Which is why Redside is just smoother.  Arrest?  What?  With the AR Blaster?  The Tank using KO Blow?  That stuff you collect from them...you are turning that into Paragon property management?  No?  Just keeping it then...

 

Redside is pure.  Just kill the fools and take their shit.  With a little having to deal with Arachnos treating you like an errand boy and peeps double crossing you.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Snarky

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

On DCUO the heroic population dwarfs the villain pop there also. Take that for what you will.

 

 

Yeah, but from what I understand, villain side on DCUO has about a third of the population.  On Homecoming, it's about 20%.  On Excelsior, it's about 10%.

[Snarky]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

 

 

Yeah, but from what I understand, villain side on DCUO has about a third of the population.  On Homecoming, it's about 20%.  On Excelsior, it's about 10%.

Redside...bestside.  Few make the cut.  Honestly most aren't willing to kidnap paragon civilians for live vivisection by Vahzilok.  But I say if the job pays you just need to do it.  Cash is king after all.

[ZemX]

On 5/31/2021 at 11:24 AM, Snarky said:

Honestly most aren't willing to kidnap paragon civilians for live vivisection by Vahzilok.

 

Sure, but most of the stuff you run across redside is like this...

 

"Oh, what has science wrought? I sought only to turn a man into a metal-encased juggernaught [sic] of destruction powered by the unknown properties of a mysterious living crystal. How could this have all gone wrong?"

 

and...

 

"She who lives by the cybernetic monstrosity powered by living coral, all too often dies by the cybernetic monstrosity powered by living coral. Fortunately, you have helped me to avoid this fate."

 

Did you just spend a few missions repossessing body parts from people who couldn't pay their bills so she could build said monstrosity?  Sure.  Did I lose any sleep over the moral implications of this?

 

No.  No I didn't.

[Citizen Razor]

This has been an interesting discussion, and I think both sides raise valid points.  

 

I think it's partly because being "heroic" just feels better than being "villainous" and players will naturally be drawn to blueside.  That's certainly a factor.

 

However, the fact that CoH was first, had developed a playerbase for at least two years, and started out with vastly more missions, zones, and quests than CoV did definitely plays into it.  While it is true that the CoH developers learned from a lot of their mistakes and did a lot to fix them when they launched CoV (less pointless zones, more streamlined missions/quests, etc.) the result actually played into CoH's favor. 

 

I think had CoH/CoV been both launched at the same time, and had both sides started out with an equal amount of gameplay, the player base wouldn't be so tilted in favor of blueside.  However, redside was doomed all the way back in 2004 simply by virtue of not being present when CoH launched.  

 

If I had the money, the time, the coding skills, and the writing skills (spoiler:  I don't have any of these things), I'd take the CoH assets and attempt to create a "mirror" game that reimagines CoH in a way that provides more balance to both sides.  One way I'd start would be to take many of the "Hazard" zones in CoH and turn them into co-op zones, and streamline the CoH zones (ditching one of Steel Canyon / Skyway City, moving all of the ditched zone's assets over to the remaining zone, and having one blueside Lv10-15 zone, for example).  But then that's a completely new game.  

[Apparition]

Honestly, here is how you get red side activity going again:

 

1. Remove side switching from Null the Gull.

 

2. Make The Abyss red side only again.

 

3. Double the reward merits on everything red side.  Story arcs, SFs, GMs, Hamidon raids.  Everything.

 

You need all three combined, but that would do it.

[siolfir]

8 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Honestly, here is how you get red side activity going again:

 

1. Remove side switching from Null the Gull.

 

2. Make The Abyss red side only again.

 

3. Double the reward merits on everything red side.  Story arcs, SFs, GMs, Hamidon raids.  Everything.

 

You need all three combined, but that would do it.

You forgot #4: roll back the ability to start Brutes, Corruptors, Stalkers, Masterminds, and Dominators in Paragon City, so if you want to play one of those ATs you have to play through Praetoria or the Rogue Isles to level 20. Although that'd just push even more people to make Tankers over Brutes and Defenders over Corruptors.

[Apparition]

32 minutes ago, siolfir said:

You forgot #4: roll back the ability to start Brutes, Corruptors, Stalkers, Masterminds, and Dominators in Paragon City, so if you want to play one of those ATs you have to play through Praetoria or the Rogue Isles to level 20. Although that'd just push even more people to make Tankers over Brutes and Defenders over Corruptors.

 

That is currently what Thunderspy is proposing as their solution towards the huge player base disparity between sides on all CoH servers, but IMO that is both misguided and unnecessary.  What I suggested would work.  I mean, there will always be those blue side die hards, but the red side population would still undoubtedly substantially increase.

[MTeague]

29 minutes ago, Apparition said:

That is currently what Thunderspy is proposing as their solution towards the huge player base disparity between sides on all CoH servers, but IMO that is both misguided and unnecessary.  What I suggested would work.  I mean, there will always be those blue side die hards, but the red side population would still undoubtedly substantially increase.

Perhaps. The cure might be worse than than the poison though. 

[Apparition]

4 hours ago, MTeague said:

Perhaps. The cure might be worse than than the poison though. 

 

I fail to see how it could be any worse than it is now.  On the most populated shard by far, it is extremely difficult and sometimes impossible to fill a SF after around 11 P.M. ET - midnight ET.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Apparition

[Twisted Toon]

6 hours ago, Apparition said:

Honestly, here is how you get red side activity going again:

 

1. Remove side switching from Null the Gull.

 

2. Make The Abyss red side only again.

 

3. Double the reward merits on everything red side.  Story arcs, SFs, GMs, Hamidon raids.  Everything.

 

You need all three combined, but that would do it.

You would probably need to make the CoV released ATs Redside start only again as well.

 

But then, I'd only be Redside for as long as it took me to morality mission my way Blueside.

 

I don't play villains because I don't like to play villains.

And in SWTOR, I only have 4 Empire characters, and about a dozen (or 2 dozen) Republic characters.

[Snarky]

yes, add many restrictions back into the game.  until YOU get what YOU want.  if it is not working fast enough add more restrictions.

 

courteous nod to your redside strategies and tactics.  btw, have you considered inconvenience fees like charging in game assets to open various ATs?  i suppose grinding levels is part of that, but i am talking just buckets of inf.

[ZemX]

13 minutes ago, Snarky said:

yes, add many restrictions back into the game.

 

It makes a great academic argument, doesn't it?  Let's all fight about something that has zero chance of ever being done!

[VulnaviaPhibes]

I feel like this argument has been going on for so many years that it's lost track of itself. Why do we even want more people to play redside? So it's easier to find groups? Just play on everlasting, I've literally never failed to quickly fill a group for whatever evil deeds I wanted to do there.

[Apparition]

32 minutes ago, VulnaviaPhibes said:

I feel like this argument has been going on for so many years that it's lost track of itself. Why do we even want more people to play redside? So it's easier to find groups? Just play on everlasting, I've literally never failed to quickly fill a group for whatever evil deeds I wanted to do there.

 

No thank you.  While I play red side exclusively, you literally could not pay me to play on Everlasting.

 

In any case, while I believe that my suggestion above would work, I know that it has zero chance of occurring. :D

[Luminara]

43 minutes ago, Apparition said:

While I play red side exclusively, you literally could not pay me to play on Everlasting.

 

You proposed doubling the merit rewards for Rogue Isles content, essentially paying people to play there, so you're either open to the idea of being paid to play in an environment which you don't particularly enjoy, or your suggestion was hypocritical.

[Apparition]

5 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

You proposed doubling the merit rewards for Rogue Isles content, essentially paying people to play there, so you're either open to the idea of being paid to play in an environment which you don't particularly enjoy, or your suggestion was hypocritical.

 

I never said that I was open to being paid to play anywhere, but other people may be.  I have been told by many people that they would do things in game that they don’t do now if the rewards were increased.  There are plenty of people that play the game that only care or primarily care about rewards.  I am not one of them, but they are there. Regardless, it was hypothetical.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Apparition

[Wintercat]

On 5/27/2021 at 8:55 PM, Aeroprism said:

Wait what? PB+PT doesn't work anymore?  No sweat.  I'll find some other immature trick to amuse me. 

I highly recommend gale slotted for accuracy and knockback, blowing villains off rooftops in Kings Row.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, VulnaviaPhibes said:

I feel like this argument has been going on for so many years that it's lost track of itself. Why do we even want more people to play redside? So it's easier to find groups? Just play on everlasting, I've literally never failed to quickly fill a group for whatever evil deeds I wanted to do there.

 

I find that hard to believe, or else you have a different definition of "quickly" than I do.  I am also on Everlasting.

 

I was just on a Renault SF last night during prime-time evening central US hours that failed to fill the team.  And it's the WST!   We went with 5 and did fine, but the point is, we didn't fill the team and even getting five wasn't "quick".  Some of us were practically begging in LFG before we just gave up and ran.  I think there might have been a MSR and/or Hamidon going on at the time, but regardless, multiple DFBs and fire farms and other blueside TF teams scrolled by, filled, and launched as well while we tried to fill ours.

 

There's just no comparing how easy it is to join OR launch your own team blueside vs. redside.  Even on Everlasting.  Just take a few minutes to watch LFG and count the number of blue team adverts vs. red team adverts some time.  The population might be as much as 1/4 villains on this server, but the number of team adverts is easily ten-to-one blueside, if not more.

[Luminara]

Just now, Apparition said:

I never said that I was open to being paid to play anywhere, but other people may be.

 

Point: Missed.

 

If no enticement would sway you, perhaps it might be best to believe the same of others, especially since the sentiment expressed by multiple respondents has been fundamentally the same as yours (you couldn't pay them to play villains).

 

35 minutes ago, Apparition said:

I have been told by many people that they would do things in game that they don’t do now if the reward was increased.

 

T M I.

[Apparition]

32 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Point: Missed.

 

If no enticement would sway you, perhaps it might be best to believe the same of others, especially since the sentiment expressed by multiple respondents has been fundamentally the same as yours (you couldn't pay them to play villains).

 

 

You missed my point.  I already acknowledged that some people would never play red side for whatever reason.  What I am saying is that quite a few more would play red side if the rewards were substantially better.  Enough to make a substantial difference finding teams.  Then those who would play red side but don’t because they can’t find teams may be swayed to play red side, knowing that they have more people to play with.

 

The Shadow Shard is dead most of the time.  People dislike it.  Yet suddenly when a Shadow Shard TF is a WST, you find teams there.  Why is that?  Double reward merits.

 

When the Vanguard merit to reward merit conversion ratio was increased from ten to one to thirty to one, several friends stopped doing MSRs.  They don’t find them fun, but they had no trouble doing it when they believed that the rewards were worth it.

 

If Hamidon raid rewards were nerfed, do you honestly believe that there would be as many ran as there are today?  Of course not.