PUGs Hurt

[Pixie_Knight]

Admittedly, my experience with incarnate abilities is limited to Test back on live servers. But I really didn't feel incarnate abilities were that big of an impact. The toggles turned off after 30 seconds or so, and had a fairly lengthly cooldown. The pet summons were nice, and would add some nice power to controllers and masterminds, but for other characters they didn't last that long, I thought. All told, my impression was they were more a permanent version of the various temp powers. Or in other words, nice to have and can shift things in your favor, but situational.

[Snarky]

34 minutes ago, Pixie_Knight said:

Admittedly, my experience with incarnate abilities is limited to Test back on live servers. But I really didn't feel incarnate abilities were that big of an impact. The toggles turned off after 30 seconds or so, and had a fairly lengthly cooldown. The pet summons were nice, and would add some nice power to controllers and masterminds, but for other characters they didn't last that long, I thought. All told, my impression was they were more a permanent version of the various temp powers. Or in other words, nice to have and can shift things in your favor, but situational.

Get to know the new incarnate powers. There are 6.  The right pets are required by good leagues for certain badge attempts. They make that big a difference.  They are not even the greatest power in my opinion. A good Alpha can take an expensive invention build that does not quite work and grease it so it hums like an in tune Ferrari.  Destiny powers are life savers for leagues.  Judgements are incredible powerful AoE attack on a par with Blaster T9s if not better. Interface are subtle powerful and fun. Hybrids at T4 are nitrous to that Ferrari.  Explore the world of 50s a bit.  You might be pleasantly surprised 

[Pixie_Knight]

Sadly back on Live I'd never upgraded the original Incarnate starting power to tier 2, was farming mats to do so. Then when they did the Incarnate revamp (which is when I tested it out on the test server) I was working towards making the first incarnate power at the time of CoH's shutdown. Since I wasn't running many incarnate trials, it was taking a long time to grind for materials. And with my severe altitus, I wasn't playing a lev 50 often. I had at least 14 characters on every server when the game got shut down.

[Carnifax]

For Tinmage specifically the reason having level 3/4 Incarnates makes such a big impact is the difference between facing +3/4 enemies and +1 because you have your +3 level shift. Tinmage is pure incarnate content like Dark Astoria missions.

 

So better incarnate powers and you're only fighting +1s. 

[Pixie_Knight]

Which is a fair point. The powers themselves didn't seem to me like they were game changing. Useful, but not game changing. But the Incarnate level shifts from incarnate powers would definitely help out. Granted, the level shift only applies to incarnate trials/missions, to my knowledge. So the rest of the time you just have a set of situational abilities.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

Which is a fair point. The powers themselves didn't seem to me like they were game changing. Useful, but not game changing. But the Incarnate level shifts from incarnate powers would definitely help out. Granted, the level shift only applies to incarnate trials/missions, to my knowledge. So the rest of the time you just have a set of situational abilities.

 

The +1 level shift from the Alpha applies in all content as long as you are level 45 or above (e.g. You can exemplar to run a level 45 mission team and will be effectively level 46).  The +1 shifts in Lore and Destiny are "Incarnate" shifts and apply only in Incarnate content.  Aside from that, the passive benefits of Alpha and Interface slots are very significant.  Just not as flash as a Judgement nuke.   

[SeraphimKensai]

I pug quite a bit, but in the back of my head I assume I'm carrying the team, so when I find competent ppl in a pug it's a happy surprise. Then I typically add those people for when I want to do more difficult challenges.

[Zhym]

2 hours ago, Pixie_Knight said:

Which is a fair point. The powers themselves didn't seem to me like they were game changing. Useful, but not game changing. But the Incarnate level shifts from incarnate powers would definitely help out. Granted, the level shift only applies to incarnate trials/missions, to my knowledge. So the rest of the time you just have a set of situational abilities.

I suspect you're basing your opinion of incarnate powers on the early results.  And that's fair—the T1 powers aren't game changing.  But at T4?  Yeah, those are game-changing.  A T1 Alpha Musculature, for example, boosts damage about 5% if you've already hit ED limits on your damage powers. Nice, but not something you'll notice if you aren't looking for it. At T4, however, you can get a 30% boost to all your damage.  That's pretty significant.  Ever wish you could slot an extra enhancement in every power and have them ignore ED?  That's basically Alpha T4.

 

Destiny is also great.  T4 Destiny Barrier, for example, can temporarily turn a blaster into a tank.

 

The incarnate system is pretty confusing and kind of a pain, but the rewards are definitely there, noticeable, and worth the effort of getting the T4s.

    

Edited June 27, 2021 by Zhym

[Pixie_Knight]

When I was testing it prior to the revamp going live, there was an NPC that would give you the mats needed for making everything. So I copied Madam Enigma over (as well as my villain main) and crafted every single incarnate power to experiment with them in different combinations.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Pixie_Knight

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

When I was testing it prior to the revamp going live, there was an NPC that would give you the mats needed for making everything. So I copied Madam Enigma over (as well as my villain main) and crafted every single incarnate power to experiment with them in different combinations.

 

You might find this useful:  

 

[Clave Dark 5]

11 hours ago, Snarky said:

A good Alpha can take an expensive invention build that does not quite work and grease it so it hums like an in tune Ferrari.

Lazy person that I am, I swipe most of my builds from these forums, and I'm finding a noticeable percentage crutch themselves along that way, which sort of annoys me as I don't Doorsit For Levels nor use XP boosts.  And once I get to 50, the Incarnate system usually convinces me to start new toons anyway once I've opened up all the slots and maybe built them to +2 or +3.  Seriously, it's just needlessly complex and poorly implemented.  Plus by then I probably have a new shiny anyway.  But - point being it's a crutch for poor build design.  Now if I could only do something about this whole "lazy person" thing...

[Snarky]

27 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Lazy person that I am, I swipe most of my builds from these forums, and I'm finding a noticeable percentage crutch themselves along that way, which sort of annoys me as I don't Doorsit For Levels nor use XP boosts.  And once I get to 50, the Incarnate system usually convinces me to start new toons anyway once I've opened up all the slots and maybe built them to +2 or +3.  Seriously, it's just needlessly complex and poorly implemented.  Plus by then I probably have a new shiny anyway.  But - point being it's a crutch for poor build design.  Now if I could only do something about this whole "lazy person" thing...

Yeah, anytime I get interested in a AT Build I make 2 builds usually.  A levelling build and the final build.  They are usually quite close.  Part of my enjoyment is running alts in low level TFs.  So a 50 build only works for me 50% time.  The best part about building this way is many times I can "solve" the builds problems without using the Alpha.  So then I can choose an Alpha instead of taking a forced pick.

[Pixie_Knight]

With auto exemping, any "final build" also needs to take into account leveling. As such, your final build may as well be your leveling build, unless you decided to drop or swap out some pool powers.

[Snarky]

9 minutes ago, Pixie_Knight said:

With auto exemping, any "final build" also needs to take into account leveling. As such, your final build may as well be your leveling build, unless you decided to drop or swap out some pool powers.

Not precisely.  A lot of my builds have at least one very rare (purple) set.  I need to fill those holes as i level. I am also the type who will solo all of redside stopping experience as i go.  That toon usually needs multiple builds as certain sets are not available until level 27

 

while i mostly agree with your statement i just happen to run a crapton of the exceptions to it lol 

 

finally if you lose a ton of set bonuses due to running something like a posi it is almost always no issue.  The tons of inspirations you can carry tend to make up for it

Edited July 6, 2021 by Snarky

[Pixie_Knight]

It's more power selection (and what level) that matter. Set bonuses can be game changing, but should be considered more of an added benefit IMO. If your build can't handle challenges without IO sets and Incarnate abilities, maybe it's time to re-examine your build. 🙂

 

At least, that's my thought process. If my character needs those set bonuses to be effective I did something wrong.

[Snarky]

11 minutes ago, Pixie_Knight said:

It's more power selection (and what level) that matter. Set bonuses can be game changing, but should be considered more of an added benefit IMO. If your build can't handle challenges without IO sets and Incarnate abilities, maybe it's time to re-examine your build. 🙂

 

At least, that's my thought process. If my character needs those set bonuses to be effective I did something wrong.

In my opinion this is also highly dependent on the AT and powersets.  A SS/Invul  Brute will be very good on SOs only.  I have run them.  But a Titan Weapon Invul would be a bit crazy without I/O support.  Some ATs are very different with an I/O build.  (Dominators...)

[MrAxe]

On 6/25/2021 at 11:54 AM, TheOtherTed said:

To butcher the Chuck Yeager quote, if a PUG can finish a TF, it's a good PUG.  If you get a story or two out of it, it's an outstanding PUG.

Best PUG was my first Frostfire on live. We died so many times we formed the SG called 'The Predominantly Dead' after we finally emerged victorious. We never teamed up again sadly. It was one of those ideas that was good at the time. Still one of my favourite CoH memories.

[Pixie_Knight]

41 minutes ago, Snarky said:

In my opinion this is also highly dependent on the AT and powersets.  A SS/Invul  Brute will be very good on SOs only.  I have run them.  But a Titan Weapon Invul would be a bit crazy without I/O support.  Some ATs are very different with an I/O build.  (Dominators...)

 

That might depend entirely on if you think you need perma-hasten or perma dom or to have another long cooldown power permanently active. Which not everyone will consider required. I know perma elude was considered "required" on Live for Super Reflexesprior to IOs, and softcapped defense was considered 'required' after IOs and the global defense nerf. But to be honest, that was entirely unneeded. Sure, softcapped defense by any means does make you nearly invincible. But it's not required to be effective. Hell, my experience is that Super Reflexes is nigh immortal just by having Aid Self,  with Elude (or a luck or two) only being needed for Elite Boss/Archvillain/Giant Monster fights.

[Snarky]

Been setting up a Rad/Fire/Mu Brute farmer on my alt acct this weekend.  Now i like to badge and i need merits to convert all those farmed recipe drops.  I also love TFs.  So i joined an Operative Renault. 
 

this is not a well known TF.  But it is very straightforward. 
 

I have a TF build for my farmer.  Pretty heavy armored and as well balanced as i can make it.  
 

there were a LOT of deaths.  None mine.  I had already 50d this thing and my TF build has three full purple sets and a bunch of other goodies.  I think i used a green inspiration once or twice. 
 

People (especially the Blaster) kept jumping toward the mobs and grabbing agro. I have no taunt. I have two!!  Damage auras.  If you give me one minute all the mobs will attack just me.  58 minutes.  Towards the end they were following me.  I only said something once mid way through.  “I have two damage auras, if i go in first everything attacks me”. You need to say this?   
 

anyways i had a hoot got badge and merits. They even thanked me at the end. 

[Doomguide2005]

On 6/25/2021 at 10:53 PM, Techwright said:

 

Petless masterminds?  That's like Diet, Caffeine-free Mountain Dew.   What's the point?

     This made me grin. 😁

I worked for many years and started drinking Caffeine-free Diet Mountain Dew for a while until I got my ... habit ... under control.

 

 

I worked in the Veterinary Emergency field ... Have you ever tried to insert a 25g IV catheter in a kitten weighing less than a couple pounds after having drunk multiple cans of caffeinated Dew?

 

Hint:  Vibrating hands not good.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[Yomo Kimyata]

Your PUG is like bad medicine.

Bad medicine is what I need.

(Woah-a-oh)

Shake it up, just like bad medicine.

There ain't no empath who can cure the Vahzilok Wasting disease.

[chadius]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:25 PM, Snarky said:

So i joined an Operative Renault. 
 

this is not a well known TF.  But it is very straightforward. 
 

there were a LOT of deaths.

 

People (especially the Blaster) kept jumping toward the mobs and grabbing agro.

As the blaster who ate a lot of debt, it was fun figuring out how much my Rad/Dark could handle. Usually this involved jumping in, Soul Drain, Irradiate and praying enough missed me I could kill 'em in time. But I was aware I was gonna eat dirt, I'm a blaster.

 

Thanks for preventing many team wipes!

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, chadius said:

As the blaster who ate a lot of debt, it was fun figuring out how much my Rad/Dark could handle. Usually this involved jumping in, Soul Drain, Irradiate and praying enough missed me I could kill 'em in time. But I was aware I was gonna eat dirt, I'm a blaster.

 

Thanks for preventing many team wipes!

My main is a Dark Dark Blaster.  But i play very conservatively.  Softcap range defense and i do not soul drain unless its 90%+ safe.  I will sometimes even nuke first and soul drain after if anything is left. Other than that i stay at range.  Lots of cones to keep me busy

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, chadius said:

As the blaster who ate a lot of debt, it was fun figuring out how much my Rad/Dark could handle. Usually this involved jumping in, Soul Drain, Irradiate and praying enough missed me I could kill 'em in time. But I was aware I was gonna eat dirt, I'm a blaster.

This was something that I picked up the habit of doing with my AR/EM Blaster back on live; I worked out that she should hit Boost Range, Build Up or Aim, then fire off Full Auto and Flamethrower into a full spawn of Nemesis, and the return fire while the ticks of damage from my two attacks ground everyone down would chew about half her hit points. Then she would fly off looking for more victims miscreants, and would be healed back to full health by the time Full Auto recharged; because it traded damage and area for not having a complete End crash, she could keep doing this until I either got bored or ran out of targets.

[Crysis]

I can honestly say I’ve never had a “bad time” on any PUG.  Some better than others, some more friendly, some had absolute power mad control freaks for leaders and some waited interminable amounts of time for bio breaks or for the noob to find their way to the mission door from Atlas.  But none were a bad time.  I have many solo toons and I enjoy them on occasion but I enjoy the “Massively Multiplayer” and cooperative aspects of this game.  
 

I’ll take a “bad” PUG vs an empty zone any time.