Changes to Fly, Hover, Afterburner, etc.

[Zepp]

I would prefer that Evasive Maneuvers be moved up (I want to just take Hover and Evasive Maneuvers) but overall, I like the changes. Yes, Flight took a comparative hit compared to what SS and SJ are now capable of, but I enjoy running Hover and Evasive Maneuvers to have old speed cap flight in and out of combat, and am able to use TP to travel... That being said, I actually have builds where I just use Fly as a Winter's Gift mule now...

[PeregrineFalcon]

I understood the devs desire to make Power Pool travel powers better than Temp travel powers. What I never understood was the desire, or even the reasoning, behind all of the other changes.

 

How is being able to run Hover and Fly at the same time an improvement? Exactly what goal does this change accomplish? Don't know? Well, neither do I. And frankly, I suspect that most of the devs don't know either. I flat out asked several of them what these changes were supposed to accomplish and... crickets.

[Biff Pow]

I just don't see the point of two combat toggles, and this includes Combat Jumping and Acrobatics. Just have the regular travel power and the combat version, which replace each other when turned on.

 

But whatevs.

[arcane]

8 minutes ago, Supertanker said:

I just don't see the point of two combat toggles, and this includes Combat Jumping and Acrobatics. Just have the regular travel power and the combat version, which replace each other when turned on.

 

But whatevs.

But some people want both toggles on at once so maybe just turn a toggle off manually?

[arcane]

44 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

How is being able to run Hover and Fly at the same time an improvement? Exactly what goal does this change accomplish? Don't know? Well, neither do I. And frankly, I suspect that most of the devs don't know either. I flat out asked several of them what these changes were supposed to accomplish and... crickets.

Umm, Hover has defense and flight control and Fly has flight speed. How is this NOT an improvement?

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Umm, Hover has defense and flight control and Fly has flight speed. How is this NOT an improvement?

Sorry, I should have been more clear in that post. Stacking the two powers is an improvement, for that character. It's not necessarily an improvement to the game.

 

One, our characters are already powerful enough as is.

 

Two, there's something to be said for having to make a choice. In this case making a choice between speed and fine control and defense.

 

But improvement or not, I don't see the problem that this change was meant to address. I don't have any problem with change nor do I have a problem with this change. None of my characters have Hover. I just don't believe that change, just for the sake of change, is a good thing. And I just wish that the devs would have explained their reasoning behind this change to us.

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I just wish that the devs would have explained their reasoning behind this change to us.

 

They have done so.

 

They wanted to make sure the travel powers are always better than the temp power equivalents, they wanted to improve the utility offered by the travel pools by allowing you to stack effects such as CJ and SJ, and they wanted to give value to slotting the powers with or without Sets.

I couldn't point you to a specific post, but I clearly remember all of these ideas being offered by devs during beta.

[PeregrineFalcon]

30 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

They wanted to make sure the travel powers are always better than the temp power equivalents, they wanted to improve the utility offered by the travel pools by allowing you to stack effects such as CJ and SJ, and they wanted to give value to slotting the powers with or without Sets.

You're right. I do now remember them specifically saying that they wanted people to be able to stack the effects.

 

I'm still not sure that I agree with the decision. I agree with Bill that I preferred Overdrive when it was a toggle that I could keep on as long as I wanted to. But, ultimately, it's such minor change that I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Zepp]

I think it would be reasonable to ask for Afterburner to be have its usage time limit removed and for the speed cap on Super Jump to be upped to around 110ish. That would improve the balance between the three primary travel powers.

[Wavicle]

36 minutes ago, Zepp said:

I think it would be reasonable to ask for Afterburner to be have its usage time limit removed and for the speed cap on Super Jump to be upped to around 110ish. That would improve the balance between the three primary travel powers.

No, this has been gone over and over. The current balance is correct. Many numbers were posted.

[Zepp]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

No, this has been gone over and over. The current balance is correct. Many numbers were posted.

First, apologies on the SJ numbers, they are actually capped at 110 (not 101).

Second, I did testing with capped numbers and like other testers found a large disparity between travel times.

Third, I did testing with SS, SJ, & Fly at 87.95-88.00 speeds and found that there is very little difference between SJ and Fly and SS is a little slower.

Finally, I came up with the following proposed caps:
SS - 120.24 (current cap)
SJ - 114.23 (95% of SS)
Fly - 102.20 (85% of SS) with Afterburner 108.22 (90% of SS)

This would still result in SS being the fastest travel power of the three in most situations. However, SJ and Fly would not be as far behind as they currently are.

The number agree that my numbers would be more balanced (while maintaining a SS>SJ>Fly core preference).

[aethereal]

Honestly, we've already given this topic 10,000% the attention it deserves.  I don't just mean this thread, I mean the whole last page.  The idea that COH needs more agonizing over the exact extent to which people can trade under 2 minutes of travel for a bit of increased combat efficacy is ludicrous.

 

Having travel powers is important for COH's theme.  Being able to fly, teleport, etc does a lot for making you feel like a superhero.  But the "balance" between the various forms of "who gets to the door of the mission five seconds earlier" is fundamentally irrelevant.  There are plenty of actual problems in COH's powers.  It's fundamentally no more challenging to fix the state of squishy epic armors than it was to fix travel powers, and the payoff would be massively higher, just to pick one random example of several.

[ZacKing]

9 hours ago, Wavicle said:

No, this has been gone over and over. The current balance is correct. Many numbers were posted.

 

They can post all the numbers they want, it won't make these changes an improvement IMO.

 

On 8/10/2021 at 9:17 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

It was a bad change but whatever. Not important at all when we're all packing team teleports and the like.

 

Exactly!  

 

[Luminara]

6 hours ago, Zepp said:

my numbers would be more balanced

 

You beat this horse to death in the relevant beta feedback threads.  Beta's over.  Move on.

[Zepp]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

You beat this horse to death in the relevant beta feedback threads.  Beta's over.  Move on.

You are right, I should just accept that they implemented it to stop trying to provide Suggestions & Feedback related to them getting it wrong.  I should also stop mentioning that Infiltration's lack of popularity could be reduced through a combination of a slight speed boost, an adjustment to allow it to stack with Stealth (like SS), and making it not suppress during combat. /endsarcasm

 

The Travel Pool adjustments were overall good, but there are still some issues that could be addressed to make things more equitable. Would I have preferred that they followed the data before initial implementation, yes. Does that mean I am going to lay off rather than asking for minor adjustments that could have widespread  positive repercussions to all toons using SJ or Fly (or making Infiltration appear as a viable option)? No.

[RageusQuitus2]

Meanwhile can I once again say this doesnt address travel powers for mm's.  Using group fly or group tp (or sometimes both) can really mess up a team or especially a league.

 

Once again those are great choices for pets that require deep dives into power pools.  But also mean i gotta stop using when teamed, or tell my teammates or worse league to hit null the gull...

 

Really dont get why this hasnt been addressed in some fashion.  Its why i multibox and play solo these days.

 

So no imho group fly and team tp havent been fixed.  Sure a lil less end but that was easily worked around by the player and build.  The fact i can RUIN (or even grief) an incarnate trial seems an oversight. 

 

Perhaps now that videos are ok, maybe i should show yall how fun team tp and fly was for the collective league experience (id never do it on purpose but i have by mistake).

[arcane]

I see an awful lot of nonsensical opinions, and, in the middle of all of that, the only genuine problem I’m able to detect in any of this is that some people are extremely upset about Afterburner losing toggle status. Everything else seems completely unsupported.

 

Oh and yes to a better Group Fly / Team Teleport fix if that wasn’t obvious. I don’t know who in their right mind would go near those two powers.

Edited August 12, 2021 by arcane

[Zepp]

6 minutes ago, RageusQuitus2 said:

Meanwhile can I once again say this doesnt address travel powers for mm's.  Using group fly or group tp (or sometimes both) can really mess up a team or especially a league.

 

Once again those are great choices for pets that require deep dives into power pools.  But also mean i gotta stop using when teamed, or tell my teammates or worse league to hit null the gull...

 

Really dont get why this hasnt been addressed in some fashion.  Its why i multibox and play solo these days.

 

So no imho group fly and team tp havent been fixed.  Sure a lil less end but that was easily worked around by the player and build.  The fact i can RUIN (or even grief) an incarnate trial seems an oversight. 

 

Perhaps now that videos are ok, maybe i should show yall how fun team tp and fly was for the collective league experience (id never do it on purpose but i have by mistake).

That is an interesting issue. I was wondering what you think would be a functional way to address this issue would look like?

[RageusQuitus2]

10 minutes ago, Zepp said:

That is an interesting issue. I was wondering what you think would be a functional way to address this issue would look like?

I was worries that might come off as a threat and it wasnt.  I mean i play vill side mostly but im not that big a douche.

 

Lots of ideas proposed when its been brought up.

 

Make it an option like team difficulty settings from chat. 

 

Make tp affect pets and leave team tp as is.  My personal fav.  Pets are a power for me, so why should i have to dig deeper in pools to keep em near me?

 

Default players to null setting "off" for this.  Among others that were proposed.

[ZacKing]

15 minutes ago, arcane said:

I see an awful lot of nonsensical opinions...

 

Yours included of course.   As @Zepp said, this is a suggestions and feedback forum. 

 

 

[RageusQuitus2]

18 minutes ago, arcane said:

Oh and yes to a better Group Fly / Team Teleport fix if that wasn’t obvious. I don’t know who in their right mind would go near those two powers.

Me, but i think you might have exposed my mental state....  Hippa?

[srmalloy]

22 minutes ago, RageusQuitus2 said:

Me, but i think you might have exposed my mental state....  Hippa?

(knee-jerk response) HIPAA, not 'hippa'.

[RageusQuitus2]

39 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

(knee-jerk response) HIPAA, not 'hippa'.

Great so im mental and cant spell.  Screw you both 😀 

 

Just in case it wasnt obvious my response wasnt serious toward arcane and srmalloy. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by RageusQuitus2

[skoryy]

Do I need to post Shatner again

[arcane]

44 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

Yours included of course.   As @Zepp said, this is a suggestions and feedback forum. 

 

 

I provided nothing but hard facts in my first reply to this thread. “This change sucks” on the other hand, is a tad bit less supported.