The way HC Devs can approach certain controversial but asked for Adult themed costume parts.

[A Cat]

I'm glad there's an thread to discuss the big issues. 

[Bionic_Flea]

NIPPLES!!!!

 

Carry on.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

NIPPLES!!!!

[Greycat]

On 8/18/2021 at 3:23 PM, A Cat said:

I'm glad there's an thread to discuss the big issues. 

 

And huuuuuge... tracts of land.

[DoctorDitko]

Can we all agree that, at least, everyone should have access to nipples?

 

[Heavensrun]

You're asking for new technology.  putting a mosaic over naughty bits would require the game to be reprogrammed to know where the naughty bits are, whether or not they are showing to the player, and how to blur them out.  That's a lot of technology that doesn't currently exist in the game.  The game doesn't currently do ANY of those things, so hacking those in to the existing code of a 20 year old game without breaking anything is a huge ask for the devs.

Similarly, having a bare chest option that is only available when the character has angel wings would similarly require extra work on the part of the devs.  Not as much, I don't think, but still.

Given the limited resources these guys have to bear on the game, if they're gonna be making any costume parts, I think basically anything should take priority.

 

From a philosophical standpoint, yeah, I personally think male and female costumes should have parity.  Anything lady figures have access to should be available to male figures and vice versa.  Let the players express themselves with minimal restrictions.  And it is legitimately stupid that society treats boobs different depending on the gender of the person.  And honestlyh a game where your female hero can run around in pasties is barely different from one where they can run around topless.

But a lot of people disagree with me on that, and this is a game aimed at a family audience, and we want to maintain a stable player base so we can still do things like hami raids and Rikti mothership assaults and such.  Going way out of their way to put controversial nude costume bits is as likely to drive people away as attract them.

I don't know your heart, so I can't say if you're sincere in any of your excuses for how this isn't sexual, but there are definitely people for whom doggy teats and angel boobs are fetish material.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Heavensrun
Edited to correct a formatting mistake.

[Alchemystic]

Can people stop being horny long enough to realize kids play this game? cool

 

As someone already said, there's mods to accomplish this in a strictly clientside fashion, where nobody else has to compromise just to indulge this.

[UltraAlt]

On 8/21/2021 at 2:24 PM, DoctorDitko said:

Can we all agree that, at least, everyone should have access to nipples?

 

Even the lizard and fish people?

[Triumphant]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:03 PM, Tyrannical said:

Can people stop being horny long enough to realize kids play this game? cool

 

As someone already said, there's mods to accomplish this in a strictly clientside fashion, where nobody else has to compromise just to indulge this.

 

I do realize it.  And I don't really have a particular interest in having a bare-chest model for female characters.  And yes, there are clientside mods for it, if you really want that kind of thing.  You can see it, but no one else has to see it.  Problem solved.

 

But I find it hypocritical and inherently ridiculous that everyone gets up in arms about the idea of having visible boobs in a game where there is a lot of erotic roleplay and you have no way of actually verifying that the person you're doing the ERP with is a legal adult.  No one gets in a tizzy about this but, oh, heaven forbid that a minor should lay eyes upon a bared female breast; that would certainly damage them beyond repair.

 

Give me a freaking break.  🤡

[Alchemystic]

23 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

But I find it hypocritical and inherently ridiculous that everyone gets up in arms about the idea of having visible boobs in a game where there is a lot of erotic roleplay and you have no way of actually verifying that the person you're doing the ERP with is a legal adult.  No one gets in a tizzy about this but, oh, heaven forbid that a minor should lay eyes upon a bared female breast; that would certainly damage them beyond repair.

 

Give me a freaking break.  🤡

 

People do "get in a tizzy" about underage ERP. In fact, there was a lengthy discussion about it some time ago in the general discussion thread regarding the issue.

 

[Davy]

[Moka]

Please tell me why you want to see the bare chest of women in a videogame straight out of 2004 in a neatly worded essay.

[Triumphant]

19 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

 

People do "get in a tizzy" about underage ERP. In fact, there was a lengthy discussion about it some time ago in the general discussion thread regarding the issue.

 

 

Yeah, there was one lengthy (and perfectly understandable) discussion about it.  I recall reading it.  How many of the people objecting to depictions of the bared female breast were the same people objecting to ERP in a game with minors?

 

7 minutes ago, Moka said:

Please tell me why you want to see the bare chest of women in a videogame straight out of 2004 in a neatly worded essay.

 

Is this addressed to me, specifically?  My instinct is to think it's both rhetorical and satirical, but you did give my previous reply a thumbs down, so I'm honestly not sure.  Anyway, to clarify, my position on the exposed human breast (male and female) is this:

 

I play mostly male characters.  On some of my male characters, I have chosen the bare chest option to evoke a certain "tough-guy" aesthetic for melee toons and/or also to visibly see chest symbols I use as tattoos (often to complement tattoos on the characters arms), and also to highlight muscle definition and power on characters that I feel would have a powerful physical presence.

 

I usually gravitate toward playing males, though I do occasionally have an idea for a female character that grabs my interest.  I've never had a concept for a female character that I can think of where I would want to have an exposed chest.  Possibly an amazon type toon or a character from a tribal culture or a human-like alien culture with different fashion.  But, as I clearly stated in the post that you gave a thumbs down to, I don't personally have any great desire to have this option.  It's the fact that players actually feel threatened by the suggestion, that I find both ridiculous and offensive/sexist.  Where are the threads objecting to the depiction of bared male breasts, or the removal thereof?  And for those of you that tagged me with the confused emoji, I'm just curious:  What is it that you find so confusing about my reply, because I feel like it was pretty clear and straightforward.

 

Granted, everyone who posts in these forums probably thinks that.  I acknowledge that just because I think the thing that I wrote is clear, does not in any way prove that this is so, but tell me where I'm losing you and I'll try to clarify what I'm saying.

 

 

[Alchemystic]

2 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

 

Yeah, there was one lengthy (and perfectly understandable) discussion about it.  I recall reading it.  How many of the people objecting to depictions of the bared female breast were the same people objecting to ERP in a game with minors?

 

 

I'd say it's a high possibility they're the same people.

[Moka]

You're being unnecessarily aggro over a disagreement. I'm saying bare nipples should not be in a T game, nor do I find it natural to awoogah at nipples on a pair of breasts made up of maybe four polygons haha.   I already find it a little excessive this game has to add defined buttcracks to girl tights options. 

 

Also @ The ERP thing: Calling that a strawman argument is like calling the assassination of JFK a headache. I don't understand what is drawing you to the correlation that not wanting nudity in a T-rated game is in any way shape or form bordering on pedophilia. I am fully against underage ERP.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Moka

[Triumphant]

4 minutes ago, Moka said:

You're being unnecessarily aggro over a disagreement. I'm saying bare nipples should not be in a T game, nor do I find it natural to awoogah at nipples on a pair of breasts made up of maybe four polygons haha.   I already find it a little excessive this game has to add defined buttcracks to girl tights options. 

 

Also @ The ERP thing: Calling that a strawman argument is like calling the assassination of JFK a headache. I don't understand what is drawing you to the correlation that not wanting nudity in a T-rated game is in any way shape or form bordering on pedophilia. I am fully against underage ERP.

 

I'm not.  I'm saying it's ridiculous to object to one (women's breasts) and not the other (ERP in a game with minors).  That isn't a strawman argument.  It's a coherent, logical evaluation of the argument and a valid point that you may not wish to acknowledge.

 

I'm also wondering where the objections (yours or others) are to bared male nipples that already exist in the game, because I can't seem to find them on these forums.  That is partly why I (understandably, I think) hold the objections I'm reading here to be both hypocritical and sexist.

 

@Tyrannical  So... are you trolling me now, or... 🤷‍♂️

[Moka]

 

11 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

 

  It's the fact that players actually feel threatened by the suggestion, that I find both ridiculous and offensive/sexist.  Where are the threads objecting to the depiction of bared male breasts, or the removal thereof?  And for those of you that tagged me with the confused emoji, I'm just curious:  What is it that you find so confusing about my reply, because I feel like it was pretty clear and straightforward.

 

 

 

As a girl, I am completely sexist against women. This makes sense. 

 

Anyway, if we're going down this rabbit hole where I have to spell things out, I'd like to say there's a difference between a woman pulling a breast out in public to feed her kid and a woman throwing her top off at a wet T-shirt contest. While I'm of the opinion nudity should not be as taboo as it is, I'm also of the opinion there comes a certain 'intent' with portraying nudity. There is tasteful nudity meant to be appreciated. There's a lot of it at art school where you paint a nude model in a room. However there's also art of big bouncy anime girl chests that are purely meant to arouse. There's the beautiful art piece 'Venus Rising from the Sea' portraying a topless woman with her breasts, and then there's Powergirl with her chest pressing against the pages. One is art and the purity of the human body, while the other is soft erotica. 

 

Going to the ERP strawman argument, ERP is typically in a private area or in a private chat channel where it's not thrown into our faces. If ERP is in public in any form, it is against the code of conduct.  Just as exposed genitalia would be. 

[Alchemystic]

@Triumphant No I'm genuinely confused by your argument

[Mezmera]

3 minutes ago, Moka said:

and then there's Powergirl with her chest pressing against the pages

 

Hey hey!  She's a tank and thus as much padding in front I'd assume is much appreciated.  Would you not want extra layers of Krypton DNA protection?  It's Krypton Kevlar if you will.  

 

For @Triumphant I don't mind a sensual form semi-concealed in fictional form because I understand this stuff is not to be taken seriously.  No more seriously than a muscle-bound dude being able to leap buildings in a single bound, we just don't need to see his shlong while he's doing it nor someone's boobs, some things should be left to your own imagination.    

[Moka]

To further my point, as a girl, maybe I don't want to feel even more objectified in a videogame than I already am. And if you're against male nipples being shown, the last person I can think of to advocate for the censoring of man's chests was Chris Chan. Should see what they're up to lately.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Moka

[Triumphant]

11 minutes ago, Moka said:

 

 

As a girl, I am completely sexist against women. This makes sense. 

 

Anyway, if we're going down this rabbit hole where I have to spell things out, I'd like to say there's a difference between a woman pulling a breast out in public to feed her kid and a woman throwing her top off at a wet T-shirt contest. While I'm of the opinion nudity should not be as taboo as it is, I'm also of the opinion there comes a certain 'intent' with portraying nudity. There is tasteful nudity meant to be appreciated. There's a lot of it at art school where you paint a nude model in a room. However there's also art of big bouncy anime girl chests that are purely meant to arouse. There's the beautiful art piece 'Venus Rising from the Sea' portraying a topless woman with her breasts, and then there's Powergirl with her chest pressing against the pages. One is art and the purity of the human body, while the other is soft erotica. 

 

Going to the ERP strawman argument, ERP is typically in a private area or in a private chat channel where it's not thrown into our faces. If ERP is in public in any form, it is against the code of conduct.  Just as exposed genitalia would be. 

 

Well, women can certainly be sexist against other women.  See Phyllis Schafly.  In any event, I was not suggesting you were "completely sexist against women".  Nor will I assume that your are partially sexist against women, as your statement could imply.   Now this bit...

 

Quote

Anyway, if we're going down this rabbit hole where I have to spell things out, I'd like to say there's a difference between a woman pulling a breast out in public to feed her kid and a woman throwing her top off at a wet T-shirt contest. While I'm of the opinion nudity should not be as taboo as it is, I'm also of the opinion there comes a certain 'intent' with portraying nudity. There is tasteful nudity meant to be appreciated. There's a lot of it at art school where you paint a nude model in a room. However there's also art of big bouncy anime girl chests that are purely meant to arouse. There's the beautiful art piece 'Venus Rising from the Sea' portraying a topless woman with her breasts, and then there's Powergirl with her chest pressing against the pages. One is art and the purity of the human body, while the other is soft erotica.

 

I appreciate the distinction that you're making here and I can get behind this position, with the caveat that such things are subjective and what is distasteful and what is art is a matter of subjective opinion and not a matter of objective fact.  Still, you make a convincing argument here and I feel satisfied with your reply.

 

Quote

Going to the ERP strawman argument, ERP is typically in a private area or in a private chat channel where it's not thrown into our faces. If ERP is in public in any form, it is against the code of conduct.  Just as exposed genitalia would be.

 

Yes, as it should be.  And yet, you must admit that ERP, public or private, is done across an internet connection with another person that you have no actual way of reliably verifying as being a legal adult.  It just seems to me that this ought to be more alarming to people than a request for naked female breasts as a costume option.  That's all that I'm saying.

 

I really don't understand why this position is so puzzling to Tyrannical and others.  On the other hand, sexist or not, I ought to have known better than to even bring up that term, as it never produces rational discussion on the topic (though I confess I am at a loss of how to approach any  discussion about sexism without using the term).  🤷‍♂️ 

 

[Mezmera]

1 minute ago, Triumphant said:

 

Well, women can certainly be sexist against other women.  See Phyllis Schafly.  In any event, I was not suggesting you were "completely sexist against women".  Nor will I assume that your are partially sexist against women, as your statement could imply.   Now this bit...

 

 

I appreciate the distinction that you're making here and I can get behind this position, with the caveat that such things are subjective and what is distasteful and what is art is a matter of subjective opinion and not a matter of objective fact.  Still, you make a convincing argument here and I feel satisfied with your reply.

 

 

Yes, as it should be.  And yet, you must admit that ERP, public or private, is done across an internet connection with another person that you have no actual way of reliably verifying as being a legal adult.  It just seems to me that this ought to be more alarming to people than a request for naked female breasts as a costume option.  That's all that I'm saying.

 

I really don't understand why this position is so puzzling to Tyrannical and others.  On the other hand, sexist or not, I ought to have known better than to even bring up that term, as it never produces rational discussion on the topic (though I confess I am at a loss of how to approach any  discussion about sexism without using the term).  🤷‍♂️ 

 

 

It's best to leave any "-ist" out of your statements.  Labeling and calling people names who simply oppose the suggestion does very little to further your argument.  It's typically the go-to move of those who have nothing left to reason.  

[Moka]

12 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

 

 

Yes, as it should be.  And yet, you must admit that ERP, public or private, is done across an internet connection with another person that you have no actual way of reliably verifying as being a legal adult.  It just seems to me that this ought to be more alarming to people than a request for naked female breasts as a costume option.  That's all that I'm saying.

 

 

 

I mean this is why I don't ERP anymore anyway. But this is a far more complex problem bordering on some 1984 levels of monitoring what everyone in the game is doing that I doubt the manpower exists in the volunteer team to do so. Personally, I don't think you should ERP strangers because you never know what the other side will be. If I were into roleplaying on MMOs back when I was 17 you bet I would have lied to get some electronic action. 

But on another note, I don't get why this game attracts so many people with sexual intent anyway. I just wanna play superhero and supervillain and watch Superboy fight Dr. Dinosaur, who's whole motive is to turn everyone into dinosaurs for some reason. Wouldn't it have been weird for Starfire to show her breasts in the children's show Teen Titans?

Edited August 23, 2021 by Moka

[GM Flints]

ERP requires the consent of all parties involved, and is not permitted to take place on public channels, any ERP that occurs thus occurs in PMs, as per the CoC https://forums.homecomingservers.com/code-of-conduct/ if you see this happening outside of PMs, please inform them to take it to private messages where those who aren't consenting to be witness to it are exposed to the roleplay. Underage ERP is an offence taken very seriously and if you see or suspect it happening, bring it to the attention of the team - This includes not just the age of the players but the age of characters being roleplayed.

Ultimately, "Nipples vs ERP" is not the original intention of this thread, and rather than witness arguments over whataboutism, this thread needs to return to the topic at hand as the point of discussion. 

[Moka]

GM Flint I'm so sorry your debut post is on the nipples thread.