Why not just use a bubble?

[Yomo Kimyata]

Or, OR you could just carry a full tray of large purple inspirations and reload after each mission.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to hurt your feelings PK!

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Yomo Kimyata
apology

[Seigmoraig]

12 minutes ago, arcane said:

Forum frequenters are a tiny subsection of the game population and do not represent it well overall. This is a broadly known fact. I don’t post my builds anywhere, personally. I also don’t aim for soft cap very often.

 

Do you have any data evidence that supports this assertion or just the known-to-be-skewed forum anecdotes?

The key point here is "When people talk about builds" 
If you aren't talking about your build we can't know what you are doing with it. When people talk about builds they are usually talking about how to optimize it and defcaps are the first step to optimizing a build 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Seigmoraig

[Erratic1]

6 minutes ago, arcane said:

Forum frequenters are a tiny subsection of the game population and do not represent it well overall. This is a broadly known fact. 

 

This is certainly true but the forum is where we're at and where the OP asked the initial question (topic title).

 

It is certainly overstatement to say everyone is at cap because that ignores that part where you're levelling and as you noted the people who play considerably more casually. I certainly have no problem with anyone buffing my character's defenses while working a character up to 50. But how often have you seen anyone, casual or not, forum frequenter or not, ask for a specific powerset in forming a group?

 

I am going to guess about never.

 

So why not use a bubble? No reason not to but no reason to seek one out either.

[arcane]

21 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

defcaps are the first step to optimizing a build 

Agree to disagree 🙂

[_NOPE_]

24 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

But how often have you seen anyone, casual or not, forum frequenter or not, ask for a specific powerset in forming a group?

Ahhh.... I remember those dark days well.... It was a terrible time, a more primitive age...

[A Cat]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

If you stare too long into these forums you will end up believing not just FF bubblers, but everyone who isn't a soft-capped incarnate Blaster is irrelevant at the endgame.  

I agree with you and kiramon. Could just be me but not everyone I have seen has a current meta (tm) build. Not even me and I read these forums! (I am also bad at making good builds, so it could be that). Judging from the arguments others have made here, I am convinced it is a set that could use some attention. But it is probably less bad even currently than what the theoretical numbers make it out to be, since it assumes everyone is at softcap. I know my /elec armor and /wp are not softcapped on everything. I know I am grateful for the mez protection on my defender and blaster. 

[Outrider_01]

1 hour ago, Seigmoraig said:

That's where you're misunderstanding. "Letting DPS slot for DPS" isn't nearly as good as you think it is.

to be fair, it could allow more slotting by opening slots not tied to defense.  Ice Blast, there are no damage range procs but there is a slow IO  -smashing damage proc.  Maybe add range enhancements.  Move slots to mobility powers like CJ, Infiltration, Swift, Sprint, and Hurdle for unsuppressed movement.  Its not ideal top end FOTM damage, but allows one to maximize DPS in different ways based on preferred play style.

[Without_Pause]

57 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

But how often have you seen anyone, casual or not, forum frequenter or not, ask for a specific powerset in forming a group?

 

I am going to guess about never.

Groups have looked for 'healers' since day 1 and people continue to promote themselves as such. While no, it doesn't have to be a specific powerset, it very often is, or at least a short list of ones.

 

I don't need so much def against things which are dead. Cold, among other things, gets me there quicker. I have thought about making a FF character a number of times, but in the end, I can't justify it. No powerset has gotten more screwed over in terms of end game builds than FF.

[Erratic1]

4 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Groups have looked for 'healers' since day 1 and people continue to promote themselves as such. While no, it doesn't have to be a specific powerset, it very often is, or at least a short list of ones.

 

"Healer" is anyone with a heal, which is not particular to one specific powerset.  Again, how often have you seen a request for a specific powerset? 

 

About the only powerset I can think of that I've seen people ask for specifically is Kinetics, and that because it keeps their endurance up, allowing more damage to be delivered and it buffs damage which of course allows more damage. Neither of which is asking for defensive buffs ala bubbles.

 

 

[Marshal_General]

People seem to forget that most of the players have little to no DDR and can easily go from soft cap to floor mat in seconds. 

 

That is where the def and resist shield shine. The game makes sure your protections have at least one hole.

 

Sure SR doesn't have to worry about most attacks, until they are flattened by an auto hit block of cheese the size of a Buick. I bet they wish for some resist shields then.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Marshal_General

[Without_Pause]

6 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

"Healer" is anyone with a heal, which is not particular to one specific powerset.  Again, how often have you seen a request for a specific powerset? 

 

About the only powerset I can think of that I've seen people ask for specifically is Kinetics, and that because it keeps their endurance up, allowing more damage to be delivered and it buffs damage which of course allows more damage. Neither of which is asking for defensive buffs ala bubbles.

 

 

I've seen people get flack for being Rad and being limited to its heal, so no, I don't think any heal will do. We all know Emp defenders aka 'healers' with nothing but the default attack are a meme. But yes, Kins have been asked for which also negates the statement that no powerset ever has been asked for.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Without_Pause

[arcane]

7 minutes ago, Marshal_General said:

Sure SR doesn't have to worry about most attacks, until they are flattened by an auto hit block of cheese the size of a Buick. I bet they wish for some resist shields then.

SR can cap all resistances but psi (can’t remember about toxic). One of the best armor sets in the game rn, easily 🙂

[Erratic1]

1 minute ago, Without_Pause said:

I've seen people get flack for being Rad and being limited to its heal, so no, I don't think any heal will do. We all know Emp defenders aka 'healers' with nothing but the default attack are a meme.

 

My first character in release was a Rad/Electric Defender. I never experienced pushback for the nature of Radiation Emission's heal. 

 

Who is complaining? Tanks? You're likely standing behind them with them in the radius of the heal. Other ranged characters? They shouldn't be getting hit to begin with but certainly they can be behind you, further from the tanking characters and be covered. And then there is having Accelerate Metabolism up your sleeve for extra recovery and extra damage.  And unlike Kinetics (glorious though it be) Rad comes with a rez.

 

As I like to say, there are 8 billion people on the planet. I'm going to discount, "Someone did something" because with 8 billion people someone did just about anything one can imagine. 

[Without_Pause]

It was from live, so no clue at this point, but I played a ton back on live and remember how much things leaned so heavily towards Emps and how often default attack based builds there were. Hell, based on HC's numbers from last year, Emp's were still over double of any other set for defenders.

[ZemX]

1 minute ago, Without_Pause said:

It was from live, so no clue at this point, but I played a ton back on live and remember how much things leaned so heavily towards Emps and how often default attack based builds there were. Hell, based on HC's numbers from last year, Emp's were still over double of any other set for defenders.

 

Ah yes... Age of Empaths.

 

Last year's HC numbers no doubt mirror early Live in this respect.  You had a lot of people coming over from other "Holy Trinity" MMOs (not naming any names) and wanting their tank, heal, dps.  But, and this is obviously anecdotal, I don't think I run across Empaths any more often today than I do any other type of support player.  Same thing, in my feeble memory at least, happened on Live.  Empaths who were braggy about it and who advertised themselves as "healers" would often enough catch flack for it in global chat channels because there really was just as strong a sentiment going around that this WASN'T a game about the Holy Trinity.

 

This was already a game where individual players were more self-sufficient to begin with than in some other MMOs and IO sets and Incarnates only made it more-so.

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

It was from live, so no clue at this point, but I played a ton back on live and remember how much things leaned so heavily towards Emps and how often default attack based builds there were. Hell, based on HC's numbers from last year, Emp's were still over double of any other set for defenders.

 

People creating Emps and  Emps being sought after are two different things. I honestly cannot recall the last time I was in a group with an Emp though to be fair, as most of what they do is heal health and endurance its not something that is going to stick out. 

 

I do not practice powerset discrimination, accept anyone to any group I form, and never hassle anyone about their choice in builds. But frankly, were I picking, Emp would be near the last powerset I'd invite, just ahead of Poison--too little brought to the table compared to other powerset options that were open. And heck, I'd likely invite the Poison user first just because that's a hard road to travel (having played an AR/Poison corruptor at one point).

[arcane]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

People creating Emps and  Emps being sought after are two different things. I honestly cannot recall the last time I was in a group with an Emp though to be fair, as most of what they do is heal health and endurance its not something that is going to stick out. 

 

I do not practice powerset discrimination, accept anyone to any group I form, and never hassle anyone about their choice in builds. But frankly, were I picking, Emp would be near the last powerset I'd invite, just ahead of Poison--too little brought to the table compared to other powerset options that were open. And heck, I'd likely invite the Poison user first just because that's a hard road to travel (having played an AR/Poison corruptor at one point).

Pfft, poisons rule (I have 6 🙂 )

Edited September 10, 2021 by arcane

[Erratic1]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

Pfft, poisons rule (I have 6 🙂 )

 

Masochist!

[roleki]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

We should get some data on this as I see no reason to believe it tbh. 

 

Seeing as it is fairly rare to run into a character that just dies all the time in the absence of constant support, it's not a stretch to suggest that a large percentage of players build with survivability as a priority.  Is it most players?  Maybe, maybe not?  Maybe it's down to individual shards... about 75% of the time I hang out on Indom, the other 25% on Excelsior.  Anecdotally, it seems the people that still hang out on Indom are salty dogs with scads of alts that are full-on BUILT; that could be because it's the "PvP" server, or it could be because with a lower population, there's less chance that you'll luck into a support character what can patch up the holes in your build?  Maybe Indom is just where the Viltrumites hang out, leaving the other shards free to live like The Gibbles?

 

In any case, it's actually pretty easy to see in-game who built for what... if you've been around a while, the team window is just so much shorthand for the underlying builds that you can practically predict what a person has slotted before you right-click them and check for certain.  If you've got two blasters, one of which their green bar keeps slapping left, it's a safe bet that if you check their info - if there are any bonuses listed at all - the first line is going to be some variation of 5x Regen bonuses, 5x Recharge bonuses, 5x Large Improved Movement Speed bonuses, and so forth.  If there aren't many stacked bonuses, then they're either rocking IOs or they've sold out on procs.   

 

Meanwhile, if the second blaster's bars haven't moved at all, they're either AFK, or the first line of their set bonuses will probably read something like 5x Large Increased Ranged/Energy/Negative Energy Def Bonus, 5x Small Increased Energy/Negative Energy/Ranged Def bonus and you can bet that somewhere in there they have Steadfast Protection and Gladiator's Armor.  

 

Again, that's just been what I've observed while running around out there.

 

 

[Seigmoraig]

1 hour ago, Outrider_01 said:

to be fair, it could allow more slotting by opening slots not tied to defense.  Ice Blast, there are no damage range procs but there is a slow IO  -smashing damage proc.  Maybe add range enhancements.  Move slots to mobility powers like CJ, Infiltration, Swift, Sprint, and Hurdle for unsuppressed movement.  Its not ideal top end FOTM damage, but allows one to maximize DPS in different ways based on preferred play style.

Range enhancements are amazing in cone powers, but they do little to nothing in anything else. Swift and Hurdle can't take anything other than +run speed/+jump, not something that helps you deal damage, not to mention that these are incidental bonuses you get from slotting defensive/heal/endurance sets. I usually reserve CJ/Hover for single enhancements that gives global bonuses since the rest of what they give it tiny. Adding procs to an Iceblast type power is pretty basic for dealing damage and I don't see why you wouldn't do it while still getting maneuvers, tough and weave

Edited September 10, 2021 by Seigmoraig

[roleki]

17 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Masochist!

 

No, no, Poison is pretty awesome once you've got it all together... it's basically a primary amplifier; if your primary was kind of weak, Poison props it up a bit.  If your primary is ridiculous as-is, it's ridiculous cubed with Poison.  It's one of my favorite Controller secondaries, turns everything into a truck. 

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

We should get some data on this as I see no reason to believe it tbh. 

Do not believe in global warming, how disease spreads, or how gravity works.  Get some data.  In the meantime….still true

[arcane]

10 minutes ago, roleki said:

 

Seeing as it is fairly rare to run into a character that just dies all the time in the absence of constant support, it's not a stretch to suggest that a large percentage of players build with survivability as a priority.  Is it most players?  Maybe, maybe not?  Maybe it's down to individual shards... about 75% of the time I hang out on Indom, the other 25% on Excelsior.  Anecdotally, it seems the people that still hang out on Indom are salty dogs with scads of alts that are full-on BUILT; that could be because it's the "PvP" server, or it could be because with a lower population, there's less chance that you'll luck into a support character what can patch up the holes in your build?  Maybe Indom is just where the Viltrumites hang out, leaving the other shards free to live like The Gibbles?

 

In any case, it's actually pretty easy to see in-game who built for what... if you've been around a while, the team window is just so much shorthand for the underlying builds that you can practically predict what a person has slotted before you right-click them and check for certain.  If you've got two blasters, one of which their green bar keeps slapping left, it's a safe bet that if you check their info - if there are any bonuses listed at all - the first line is going to be some variation of 5x Regen bonuses, 5x Recharge bonuses, 5x Large Improved Movement Speed bonuses, and so forth.  If there aren't many stacked bonuses, then they're either rocking IOs or they've sold out on procs.   

 

Meanwhile, if the second blaster's bars haven't moved at all, they're either AFK, or the first line of their set bonuses will probably read something like 5x Large Increased Ranged/Energy/Negative Energy Def Bonus, 5x Small Increased Energy/Negative Energy/Ranged Def bonus and you can bet that somewhere in there they have Steadfast Protection and Gladiator's Armor.  

 

Again, that's just been what I've observed while running around out there.

 

 

Again, none of these observations amount to useful data, and some are quite faulty. A player’s HP bar is not that well correlated to their defense attribute. I am positive that I can survive better with 20-30% defense and the rest of my build geared towards offense than a less experienced player that got to 45% defense with the help of the forums.

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Do not believe in global warming, how disease spreads, or how gravity works.  Get some data.  In the meantime….still true

What evidence do you have for claiming most end game builds are at 45% defense of some kind? Seriously. This condescending non-answer is beneath you snarks.

[_NOPE_]

Okay everyone....

 

Before this goes ANY further... here's a reminder...

 

Pretendy Fun Time Games