Can you boost a level 53 Enhancement to 58?

[Tailcoat]

I'm guessing not, but I found out other stuff I thought about enhancements was wrong, so I figured I'd ask.

 

Also, in case anyone is searching for it, I found that IO set enhancements with minimum level requirements still work (as far as the stats they modify, like Health, not the set bonuses) even if the character is exemplared 4 levels below that minimum. You just lose the set bonuses, not it's ability to modify Health/Accuracy/Endurance Reduction/etc (however, how much it modifies is scaled with level like it is with other enhancements). I had to do experiments in Ouro to figure that out since I couldn't find a straight answer to that via searching. A note about that might be a good addition to the Wiki page about how exemplaring affects enhancements.

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, Tailcoat said:

I'm guessing not, but I found out other stuff I thought about enhancements was wrong, so I figured I'd ask.

 

Also, in case anyone is searching for it, I found that IO set enhancements with minimum level requirements still work (as far as the stats they modify, like Health, not the set bonuses) even if the character is exemplared 4 levels below that minimum. You just lose the set bonuses, not it's ability to modify Health/Accuracy/Endurance Reduction/etc (however, how much it modifies is scaled with level like it is with other enhancements). I had to do experiments in Ouro to figure that out since I couldn't find a straight answer to that via searching. A note about that might be a good addition to the Wiki page about how exemplaring affects enhancements.

Interesting question. Technically, I think the system in place lets things like this go up to whatever level it wants. Then again, I've never seen or made it happen. 50+5 is as far as I've seen - but it used to be 50+3 as the cap, so I guess it could conceivably go higher.

[Ukase]

So...let me see if I can clarify something here. 

There are Single Origin enhancements that can drop as high as level 53. Pictured below: 


You cannot boost these. (the ones that are 53.) 

And then there are Invention Origin enhancements: 


These can be boosted to 50+5. 

Now, if somehow, someway, you encountered an IO that was level 53, the game would probably let you boost it to 53+5, but they don't exist in game, outside of some glitch unknown to me. 

Now, this is a "Hami-O", or Hamidon Origin enhancement. 


This can be combined with Titan-Os (from Eden trial) and Hydra-Os (from the Abandoned Sewer Trial) as well as Synthetic Hamidon enhancements, provided they buff the exact same attributes. They are also bucketed in the AH identically when they're the same level. 
Example: a level 50 Hami-O that boosts Accuracy and Damage (Nucleolus) can be combined with a level 48 Synthetic Nucleolus, or a Titan-O that boosts Accuracy and Damage, with a 90% chance of successful combining, to get a level 51 enhancement. 
The cap for these is 53, and they can't be boosted either. 


As to the HC Paragon Wiki, yeah, we could stomach a lot more info in there, but the forums, if your "search-fu" is strong, can be very helpful. As can the help channel, if you're on when the right folks are on. That's hit or miss. 

But for the most part, if you can deal with the occasional troll who didn't quite read your question correctly, you'll get the answers you seek here in the forums. 

[Tailcoat]

15 minutes ago, Ukase said:

And then there are Invention Origin enhancements: 

 

I was looking in the AH at Dark Watcher's Despair. There were listings for recipes and enhancements up to 53, but nothing was for sale (from what I saw), so I'm not sure if that's some kind of bug? There were other IO set enhancements like that and I don't think any were for sale. I didn't check the merit vendor.

 

I did experiments because I couldn't find explicit answers on that in the wiki, Help channel, here (searching. I didn't want make a post if I could find the info out there), and Google. Kept finding info on set bonuses, which wasn't what I wanted to know. I noticed that people sometimes had differing opinions or maybe left out important information regarding enhancements, attuning, and exemplaring's effects, so I felt better checking it out for myself. Since maybe 2019, I've been under the impression that enhancements wouldn't boost the regular non-bonus attributes (like Health) if you exemplared too low unless they were attuned, only to be told last night that it wasn't true and only set bonuses (aside from special cases like PVP IOs) get affected, so I didn't feel like taking chances this time. Respeccing, reslotting everything, and doing all the trading to replace a load of enhancements is time-consuming and a pain. 😕 

 

In any case, I'll be able to replace my attuned PVPs with 50s I can boost +5 since the PVP bonuses don't get affected by exemplaring. 

[Without_Pause]

The market has been known to listed things which don't exists. This has been a way for people with an a bunch of currency to put bids on said items. as I way to store currency. Of course, there is that moment when those things are suddenly in the game, and yes, it has happened.

[Doomguide2005]

hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Exemplar_Effects_on_Enhancements

 

    This should take you to the HCWiki page dealing with the topic.  It should be accurate on the material covered.  It doesn't cover attunement as I recall.

Step 3. Covers the actual scaling on the enhancements.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[macskull]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

This can be combined with Titan-Os (from Eden trial) and Hydra-Os (from the Abandoned Sewer Trial) as well as Synthetic Hamidon enhancements, provided they buff the exact same attributes. They are also bucketed in the AH identically when they're the same level. 
Example: a level 50 Hami-O that boosts Accuracy and Damage (Nucleolus) can be combined with a level 48 Synthetic Nucleolus, or a Titan-O that boosts Accuracy and Damage, with a 90% chance of successful combining, to get a level 51 enhancement. 
The cap for these is 53, and they can't be boosted either. 

While these special enhancements can be combined, they can only be combined with an identically-named enhancement (no combining Hamis with synthetic ones, or Titans with Hydras, etc. etc.).

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

While these special enhancements can be combined, they can only be combined with an identically-named enhancement (no combining Hamis with synthetic ones, or Titans with Hydras, etc. etc.).

Because I am often mistaken or wrong, or I might misunderstand words even when English is my native tongue, I figured I would spend some influence and actually prove this is not accurate before I do any correcting - even though I was pretty sure @macskull is mistaken here, or misstated things. 

So - as we can see below, I over-paid for some trash-O's (hami-Os). 
I slotted the level 48 Titan O first - then combined it with a hami-O with no issues. 

My best guess is Mac was trying to unload some micros for more than they're worth. Good play. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ukase]

4 hours ago, Tailcoat said:

 

I was looking in the AH at Dark Watcher's Despair. There were listings for recipes and enhancements up to 53, but nothing was for sale (from what I saw), so I'm not sure if that's some kind of bug? There were other IO set enhancements like that and I don't think any were for sale. I didn't check the merit vendor.

oh my. For a fellow who spends as much time in the AH as I do, I should have realized this was the point of confusion. <smacks own forehead> 
 

[macskull]

6 minutes ago, Ukase said:

My best guess is Mac was trying to unload some micros for more than they're worth. Good play. 

While I appreciate the extra inf in my pocket, I'm now curious if/when this changed because it was not working for me when I last tried it right after the patch which got rid of the +/++ system for combined enhancements. I spent a lot of time trying to game the system and combine what I had in my base bins to take advantage of the price spikes of level 51-53 enhancements but ended up a bit frustrated.

[Ukase]

Really? Let me think when I first did this...Eden Trial was the weekly...I tried to look back, but they screwed up the weekly tf displays so I can't look back, only forward. My guess is the Eden was about 6 weeks ago, and it was the time before that one..so maybe 4-5 months ago, about 19 weeks. Stitch & I and a few others ran at least 20 of them, maybe even 50. It was a lot. Made a small fortune off the 53 cytos. (They're all in the same bucket - a Hami-O,  a Titan-O, a Hydra-O, as long as they have the same buffs & same level, they're in the same bucket. 

[Tailcoat]

I couldn't figure out where one might get Dark Watcher's Despair at level 53 to begin with. I checked the Merit Vendor and the recipes there only went up to 50. Why would they leave non-existent things in the AH like that? Or is there another way of getting such a thing?

[Ukase]

At present, no way to get level 53 recipes. A pigg diver might be able to shed some light, but my best guess is there were plans at some point to make them available. 

[Riverdusk]

May just be a case of you can get "regular" enhancements up to level 53, so they set the limit on the AH to level 53 without bothering to code things differently between SO's and IO"s for the ones that max out at 50.  But, I don't know how the code is written, so just speculation.

 

While talking about how IO's scale, another common misperception I see is that getting an attuned enhancement of an IO that otherwise maxes out at level 30 for example is way to get them to give you enhancement values scaled up to 50.  It doesn't help that the text on the attuned version of the enhancement also gives that impression if you hover over it while you are level 50.  But if you slot it and hover over the power you have it slotted in on the management screen instead of the IO,  the truth comes out that no, you are only getting level 30 enhancement values afterall.

 

So, typically I go with 30+5 for sets that max at 30, rather than attuned.  They need the help and I don' t typically spend a ton of time below level 27.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Riverdusk

[Ironblade]

On 10/20/2021 at 11:48 PM, Ukase said:

Really? Let me think when I first did this...Eden Trial was the weekly...I tried to look back, but they screwed up the weekly tf displays so I can't look back, only forward. My guess is the Eden was about 6 weeks ago,

It was 10 weeks ago and coming around again 3 weeks from now.  I compiled all the WST info into an Excel spreadsheet that automatically checks the date to tell me what's the current one.

(Go ahead.  Yell 'Nerd!")

[Tailcoat]

8 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

But if you slot it and hover over the power you have it slotted in on the management screen instead of the IO,  the truth comes out that no, you are only getting level 30 enhancement values afterall.

 

So, typically I go with 30+5 for sets that max at 30, rather than attuned.  They need the help and I don' t typically spend a ton of time below level 27.

 

Yeah, I don't really bother with sets that don't go up to 50 unless I want a particular proc enhancement. I fiddle around with my builds for too long in Mid's Reborn so I don't get to doing that until my characters are higher level.

 

I noticed something weird about early levels too-- I slotted an attuned End Mod from a set into Endurance, but the boost was a lot lower than what I'd get from an End Mod SO at that level. The bonuses seem to even out around level 30 or 35 before single-aspect IOs start giving better boosts than SOs. 

[Hedgefund]

I found a couple of images I shared in one of the Discord channels I belong to where I combined a lvl 50 HO with a lvl 48 titan-O.  This was posted on May 24, 2020.

 

Notice this was when combining created "+" levels. Combining HOs (and SHOs obviously) with Titan-Os and Hydra-Os continued to work after the change to create 51 rather than 50+.  I didn't take any screenshots at that point in time because it had been established you could combine these but I did continue combining them immediately after that particular change, just no screenies taken.

 

If someone was having trouble combining these before, I'm guessing they were trying to combine dissimilar attributes (an Acc/Dmg HO with a Acc/Mez Titan-O, for example). 

 

 

[Twisted Toon]

On 10/22/2021 at 6:56 PM, Riverdusk said:

May just be a case of you can get "regular" enhancements up to level 53, so they set the limit on the AH to level 53 without bothering to code things differently between SO's and IO"s for the ones that max out at 50.  But, I don't know how the code is written, so just speculation.

 

That would be my guess as well.

It is probably easier to have all the recipes and enhancements point to a single level variable rather than segregating them out by what specific type of enhancement or recipe it is.