Sentinel's epic powers need serious love

[Diantane]

The word "Epic" means heroic; majestic; impressively great; extending beyond the usual or ordinary especially in size of scope. Well all that sounds pretty amazing, but when I see the epic pool powers they are just powers that a new character would get. What gets me to create a character is being able to look forward to what lies ahead. Unfortunately once I reach a high level just past 38, all those dreams are shattered.

 

I've made about fifteen sentinels, because of their amazing twists of powers. Yesterday morning I created a beam/regen sentinel because I wanted to see what would happen to the character's stats as I leveled. Reached 35 after running arc teams for 11.5 hours on double XP. It was pretty amazing seeing my total health being raised by almost 500 and my regen over 25/sec. Even got an impressive heal that I needed to use only 3-4 times.  But now at 35, I look forward to see what "EPIC POWERS" I can get and.... are you kidding?

 

The epic powers need to be revamped to something that is truly amazing. More to the line of being a sentinel. Completely new amazing powers would be the direction that should it should go.

[Aurora_Girl]

The Webster's definition of "uninformed" is not educated or knowledgeable : not having or based upon information or awareness : not informed

[Diantane]

There are several definitions. Open your mind to how a few of them apply to this game. You don't have to be technical here.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Diantane

[InvaderStych]

Can you demonstrate, specifically, how these choices are problematically inferior to the ones available to other ATs?

 

Bearing in mind that Sentinels get the most available EPP/PPP options to choose between.

[Diantane]

I just used Sentinel as an example. Every AT class gets the same sort of non-epic powers, but the classes other than Sentinel get something that stands out:

 

A Blaster, Controller, Defender, Dominator, Corruptor and Mastermind get a protective power like Scorpion Shield, Charged Armor, Frozen Armor, Dark Embrace, etc.

A Scrapper, Tanker or Stalker gets a choice in Body Mastery or Energy Mastery called, Conserve Power, Focused Accuracy and Physical Mastery (not found in any AT's powerset).

The Brute adds Superior Conditioning.

The Peacebringer and Warshade doesn't get any Epic Powers and the Widow and Soldier get limited Epic sets, because their main powersets are so extensive that they have a hard time training it all.

 

The Sentinel does get the option to take one power different called, " Coordinating Targeting, but that just gives a minor accuracy buff, and debuff protection.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Diantane

[Luminara]

What "epic" pools

2 hours ago, Diantane said:

I've made about fifteen sentinels

 

And you still don't know how to play them?  Impressive.

[Diantane]

7 minutes ago, Luminara said:

And you still don't know how to play them?  Impressive.

I got to level 35 in one day without sitting in a farm, but by playing the game as originally intended without knowing how to play my character? I'm 66 years old and have been playing computer rpg's and mmo's since they were invented (over 4 decades). I not only play the character, but delve into the mathematics behind them and study the AI's in the game. In City of Heroes, (because I am now retired) I run arc teams from KR or The Hollows to the end for 10-12 hours per day without taking any breaks beyond a bio or getting a previously prepared sandwich or more water.

 

Spending my time running farms or bots that kill the same things over and over (grinding) on multiple accounts just to make huge amounts of influence needed for really expensive builds and do this over and over again making many vets, is not actually playing the original "old school" game that I love. So no, I don't know how to play the Sentinel in that way and don't care to.

[Diantane]

It is never a goal in any game that I play to reach the maximum level. My goal is to have fun. In City of Heroes, like many players, I make an enormous amount of alts. Usually one every 1-3 days. If I don't care for them, I'll abandon them at about level 35 or less. If I like them I may get as high as 45, but this becomes too much of a grind, so I usually stop at 40-42. If an alt really stands out for me that I was very impressed with it, I will take it all the way to 50 and beyond. This has never happened on this server so I have no 50's here. I joined a farm once, but had no intention to just sit there and soak XP. So I played along with the 50's even though I was in my teens. I played the "sitter" routine once in another mmo. It was very boring and that character was deleted right afterwards.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Diantane

[Psyonico]

You know, Diantane, I'm starting to think this game isn't for you.

[Diantane]

4 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

You know, Diantane, I'm starting to think this game isn't for you.

Why do you say that?

[Aurora_Girl]

18 minutes ago, Diantane said:

I got to level 35 in one day without sitting in a farm, but by playing the game as originally intended without knowing how to play my character? I'm 66 years old and have been playing computer rpg's and mmo's since they were invented (over 4 decades). I not only play the character, but delve into the mathematics behind them and study the AI's in the game. In City of Heroes, (because I am now retired) I run arc teams from KR or The Hollows to the end for 10-12 hours per day without taking any breaks beyond a bio or getting a previously prepared sandwich or more water.

 

Spending my time running farms or bots that kill the same things over and over (grinding) on multiple accounts just to make huge amounts of influence needed for really expensive builds and do this over and over again making many vets, is not actually playing the original "old school" game that I love. So no, I don't know how to play the Sentinel in that way and don't care to.

 

And you consistently and aggressively display absolutely rotten understanding (or just flat-out ignorance) of not only the game and its mechanics, but the real-life people behind the characters you consistently come to these forums to whine about. 

 

10-12 hours a day, every day, you say? Maybe it's time for a break. We'll welcome you back from your journey to achieve self-awareness, should it reap rewards. 

[InvaderStych]

36 minutes ago, Diantane said:

I just used Sentinel as an example. Every AT class gets the same sort of non-epic powers, but the classes other than Sentinel get something that stands out:

 

Honestly, I see this the other way.  Scrapper, Blaster, and Brute EPP/PPP choices are extremely limited simply because certain powers either "stand out" like blaster toggle shields or fill a gap - usually the tremendous endurance costs of 9+ toggles, never mind adding hideously expensive ones like Focused Accuracy for 0.78 end/s.

 

In contrast Sentinel choices look to be much more balanced, lending themselves to thematic flexibility in filling out a build.

 

40 minutes ago, Diantane said:

A Blaster, Controller, Defender, Dominator, Corruptor and Mastermind get a protective power like Scorpion Shield, Charged Armor, Frozen Armor, Dark Embrace, etc.

 

Almost literally default choices.  So much Scorpion Shield.  I'm even guilty of it on my most played blaster.  It would be really cool if things like LRM Rocket were as good of a choice, but they aren't.  While these shield powers are good, they're hardly the reason blasters are what they currently are.

 

43 minutes ago, Diantane said:

A Scrapper, Tanker or Stalker gets a choice in Body Mastery or Energy Mastery called, Conserve Power, Focused Accuracy and Physical Mastery (not found in any AT's powerset).

The Brute adds Superior Conditioning.

 

Again, for some combinations almost default choices.  See above regarding the end cost on FA, and recall that these sets also include the universally reviled Laser Beam Eyes, which would be awesome if it was as useful as say snipes in the other Scrapper Epics, but it isn't.  And I'll even admit that as someone who uses it in a build for [Reasons].

 

Is it a question of their not being a Body/Energy mastery equivalent for Sentinels?  That as a specific suggestion might be worth exploring by the folks who know Sentinels better than I, but recall that Sents already have more pool choices than any other AT.

 

47 minutes ago, Diantane said:

The Sentinel does get the option to take one power different called, " Coordinating Targeting, but that just gives a minor accuracy buff, and debuff protection.

 

They also get Mind Link and an array of pbAoE heals to choose from.  There is not a single heal within any of the Scrapper EPP/PPP choices.  I don't see this as an issue really, because that sort of thing delves further into "samey-same" territory.

 

Honestly, reading over the various pools, I'll agree that none of them stand out as "default choices," but I disagree that it is a problem.  I'd much rather have viable diversity in pool choices than feeling saddled into the same sub-set of them over and over again.

[arcane]

10 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

You know, Diantane, I'm starting to think this game isn't for you.

On the contrary, the fact that Diantane is now replying to posts in their own threads is encouraging progress. Continue that trajectory and, once they start actually integrating feedback in another few months, we might really have something here.

Edited November 4, 2021 by arcane

[Diantane]

Yes, but if I wanted those basic epic pool powers, I would make the character that specializes in it. Those powers have nothing to do with any of the sentinel powersets that I have played. I would not choose any of them so either I train another standard pool power or I abandon the character. Of all of my sentinels, only two have reached 44-46, but the grind was too much and I stopped playing them.

[SeraphimKensai]

@Diantaneis definitely making progress. Just waiting for the day he downloads Mids Reborn and starts getting invested into build theory so he can learn that a proc'd out dominate and mind probe from Sentinel's epic powers are the strongest attacks a sentinel can take.

 

Honestly Link Minds is great too.

 

[Diantane]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

On the contrary, the fact that Diantane is now replying to posts in their own threads is encouraging progress. Continue that trajectory and, once they start actually integrating feedback in another few months, we might really have something here.

That's actually very funny, but do you think we can get back to the conversation at hand?

[Mr. Vee]

Umm, psi mastery, aka 'hey my sent can actually do damage now'.

[GM Kaiju]

Calm it down please folks. If you disagree with someone, do so in a constructive way that adds to the conversation. If you don’t have something constructive to say, don’t post.

[Diantane]

As I stated before, I only made the beam/regen sentinel, because I was curious to see what happened to the stats of upon training and slotting (just SO's) the regen powers. Wanted to keep going past level 35, but then saw the ridiculous epic pool powers again and stopped. So I only spent one day on this project -- on to the next!

[Diantane]

Thank you GM Kaiju!

[InvaderStych]

26 minutes ago, Diantane said:

Yes, but if I wanted those basic epic pool powers, I would make the character that specializes in it. Those powers have nothing to do with any of the sentinel powersets that I have played. I would not choose any of them so either I train another standard pool power or I abandon the character. Of all of my sentinels, only two have reached 44-46, but the grind was too much and I stopped playing them.

 

Ok, I think I get the objection here.  The thing is - outliers aside, this is basically what EPP/PPP choices are - re-tuned powers from other ATs (blasts & snipes for melee, shields for blasters, melee, heals, and buff-debuff for Sents, apparently) that add utility or fill some sort of gap.  They can also be safely ignored if nothing fits the bill.  But "nothing to do with" is inaccurate - thematic pairings are there "fire, dark, psi, etc" and "flesh out abilities" choices exist within them.

 

But if it is the literal definition of "Epic" that you are seeking, then EPP/PPP choices alone aren't the right place to look regardless of AT.

 

 

Edit:

Beam could easily make use Mind Link, or the Caltrops power from Ninja, or several others. Beam could also just not take any of them at all and still be a damn fine toon.

 

Double Edit:

Pick the favorite toon you've run so far and play it through to the post-50 game.  The "Epic" you are looking for is out there, but it's not hiding in a perfect powerset combination. It's hiding in places like Dark Astoria (how do more people not love this zone?).

Edited November 4, 2021 by InvaderStych
formatting

[A Cat]

Think of the epic pools as bonus pools to help fill gaps that are outside of the normal purview of the AT. The true epic (as in the description epic) powers are usually in the tier 9 or so or up there of your main power pool, like a nuke, your delete enemy character st attack, etc (sadly the armor tier 9's are generally useless with few exceptions in the current IO world). Then there's always the incarnates. Pretty epic stuff there. 

[Greycat]

Got my first 50 back in issue 3.

It took me all of that one character to realize "oh, this is meant to fill in a few holes."

As an elec/elec blaster taking fire, I got a resist shield, some control and Rise of the Phoenix. (Which, as a blaster in I3, was very much appreciated.)

 

Not sure why, after so many sentinels, the OP hasn't caught on to that fact.   (Well, yes, I've seen their history and know why, but, you know.)

 

By the way, "Epic" has a few meanings in this game. For instance, Epic ATs use it to mean "tied or related to a story," and are linked to a faction or specific bit of lore.

[ZacKing]

I think there's quite a few forum regulars here who need to re-read what @GM Kaiju just posted above again.  

[Ignatz the Insane]

6 hours ago, Diantane said:

The epic powers need to be revamped to something that is truly amazing. More to the line of being a sentinel. Completely new amazing powers would be the direction that should it should go.

I rather like the Sentinel APPs and PPS.  Lots of useful things: Immobilizes, Melee attacks, Buffs, Debuffs, Holds, Pets, PBAoEs, even a couple Heals.  This not only gives utility to the Sentinel, it gives some great slotting opportunities for IO set bonuses.  At higher levels I play my Sentinels more like Blappers to utilize those tools, and really enjoy it.   

 

Although I think Sentinels could probably use a tweak or two, I don't think the APPs and PPS are the problem.