Proposed Changes for Mind Control

[Frozen Burn]

I haven't seen a thread on this and I'm surprised since Mind Control seems to be the 1 control set from the original game opening sets that hasn't been updated much and it could really use some tweaking to bring it up-to-date and inline with other sets that clearly outshine it.  

 

I'm not looking for a complete overhaul as I like that it's different from other control sets.  However, there is one HUGE glaring problem with Mind Control and that is Mass Confusion and lack of a pet and thusly being a low damage output set (compared to other controllers - except Ice which has probably the lowest damage output - but this thread is about Mind Control).  🙂

 

Mass Confusion - it's Tier 9, with 240s base recharge.  Plant Control gets this same power (Seeds of Confusion) at Tier 5 and with a base 60s recharge.  How is that right?! 

 

Not having a Pet - Mind Control is the only control set without a pet.  Back in the day, if I recall correctly, the devs argued "the foes are your pets because you confuse them with Mass Confusion."  Well, that has obviously changed over the years and they blew their argument when they created Plant Control and gave them "mass confusion" at Tier 5 and a pet at Tier 9.

 

So, how about: eliminating Mesmerize (Tier 1 single target sleep - which is basically useless), making Levitate Tier 1, Dominate (the hold) at Tier 2 (which is inline with all other control sets), Confuse and Mass Hypnosis at T3 and T4, then put Mass Confusion at T5 with a 60s recharge to be inline with Plant Control, and then at T9 for the pet, we can get Penny Yin's Psychic Storm pet (with whatever balanced powers you devs see fit).

 

Another option would be to eliminate Telekinesis to put Mass Confusion earlier in the set with a 60s recharge and add the pet.  I think a lot of people skip Telekinesis as it is extremely situational and difficult to use / master.  (I like TK, but like I said, it is very situational.)  If it is kept in the set, it would also need to be reworked for easier use.  (I'd love to hear other's thoughts about how to do that.)

 

But I think the changes to Mass Confusion to bring it in earlier with a quicker recharge and adding a pet will help the set, help players do a little more damage other than just Levitate (which is a fun power!).

[TheZag]

I take mesmerize and skip levitate because mesmerize is amazing and levitate sucks so ill have to disagree there.

Mass confusion should have its recharge lowered but remain at T9 and seeds of confusion should have a higher recharge or less magnitude/duration then mass confusion since seeds is T5.

[Mezmera]

You haven't seen a suggested topic for a Mind Control update since when?  This week?

 

Mind Control being a legacy set had its balance pass long long ago, well before IOs and likely in anticipation of how OP it would be with being able to perma spam Mass Confusion.  

 

Mass Confusion is fine as it is.  How about Seeds works exceedingly far too well for a t5 power compared to another powersets t9.  SoC needs a nerfing some, if we don't want to completely ruin the power then yes maybe give Mass Confusion a self buffing ability per target hit or something, the recharge is as it should be though.  

 

Mind Control has no pet.  Mind Control needs no pet.  

 

Only thing I'd like to see happen with Mind Control is the t2 power being the ST hold as all hold sets should be and personal preference would be to move the ST confuse to t3 and levitate down to t4.  Other than that freshen up the power set by giving TK a looksie.  

 

You're welcome to come along and play with my dom some time so you can hash out what you think they should improve about her.  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mezmera

[...]

Yeah this gets brought up all the time. You must not spend a lot of time on the forums, or you didn't search. 

 

No to most of your changes.

 

Mass confusion and AoE holds could probably use a recharge buff. Confusion duration could probably be reduced. Seeds of confusion can get a nerf and plant will still be amazeballs. 

 

I'd rather not see a pet for mind control. Homogenization is boring.

 

Mesmerize is unique and amazing. Many uses. Maybe a cast time reduction. Levitate too. Get their dpa similar to dominate. 

 

Telekinesis is kinda shitty. Also doesn't fit the theme of mind control. But neither does levitate really.

 

Anyway, telekinesis is probably the only power that genuinely needs a rework. Others just need tweaks. 

[Lancek]

It would be a lot of work but, I'd like a pet based on enemy groups. Like a set of five that you could swap between.

[ArchVileTerror]

Telekinesis with the new Anti-Repel tech, and you'd be looking at something truly majestic!

[Vanden]

3 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

I haven't seen a thread on this

 

omg there are so many

 

and they all think Seeds of Confusion is a good balanced power that should be emulated

Edited December 14, 2021 by Vanden

[chi1701]

5 hours ago, Mezmera said:

You haven't seen a suggested topic for a Mind Control update since when?  This week?

 

Mind Control being a legacy set had its balance pass long long ago, well before IOs and likely in anticipation of how OP it would be with being able to perma spam Mass Confusion.  

 

Mass Confusion is fine as it is.  How about Seeds works exceedingly far too well for a t5 power compared to another powersets t9.  SoC needs a nerfing some, if we don't want to completely ruin the power then yes maybe give Mass Confusion a self buffing ability per target hit or something, the recharge is as it should be though.  

 

Mind Control has no pet.  Mind Control needs no pet.  

 

Only thing I'd like to see happen with Mind Control is the t2 power being the ST hold as all hold sets should be and personal preference would be to move the ST confuse to t3 and levitate down to t4.  Other than that freshen up the power set by giving TK a looksie.  

 

You're welcome to come along and play with my dom some time so you can hash out what you think they should improve about her.  

 

If mind control does not need pets, why is it then that these so called "pets" do not give experience points for foes they defeat?

[Lazarillo]

Mind Control could be better.  In general, it has problems compared to other control sets for Controllers because of a lack of maintainable, consistent sources of containment.  Thus, while it seems to have been intended as a more "direct offense" set (and probably was, before Containment, but that was well before even I joined the game), it ends up falling behind.  I also feeling like it's lacking on a Dominator because I find myself thinking when I play my Mind/Dark, "anything I can do on this character, I can do better on my Fortunata, who also has a nuke, and mez protection, and team buffs, and defense, and....".

 

That said, I am firm believer in ye olde cottage rule, and wouldn't want to see the set get a pet.  Buffing Mass Confusion would be a good start.  Maybe making Terrorize flag for Containment (although from what I understand, that would be...difficult), and boost up Telekinesis to make it more broadly useful (it's a neat power, but mostly only works as a gimmick right now).  Take the tools the set has and make them better, essentially, don't replace.

[Frozen Burn]

@Mezmera and @... Yes, I do spend time on the forums, and yes I did do a search and nothing came up on this topic when I searched.  There was a million other threads that mentioned "mind" or mentioned "control" but none that I saw that mentioned the Mind Control Powerset.  The others must have been buried. 😛

 

@Mezmera, you are right in that Seeds of Confusion far exceeds what a T5 power should do.  But also, Mass Confusion at T9 with 4x the longer recharge is FAR too weak for what a T9 should be compared to what other sets get in the way of their pets (damage, buffs, debuffs, mezzes, and etc).  Mass Confusion is a great power but it's not T9 worthy and needs a shorter recharge, imo.  And thanks for the invite to team with your Dom, but I also have a Mind Control Dom and love it and know exactly what it can do.  And I've played Mind Control on a Controller as well - they don't get a damage set to help get through mobs - soloing is can be quite painful like trying to solo an Ice Controller.  Mind Control is just lacking that extra little "oomph" most other control sets have and then there is the blatant bias with Seeds of Confusion. 

 

So if we leave Mass Confusion at T9 and the 240s recharge, then Seeds of Confusion needs to seriously be reworked and moved to T9 with a long recharge (which I would be ok with this scenario).  But that would cause the pet to be dropped from the set and another power needed to replace the empty T5 slot.  I doubt this will ever happen.  So we are left with an imbalance between the 2 sets and it should be fixed. 

 

Why should Plant Controllers get to have a mass confusion power at T5 and 60s base recharge and Mind Controllers have to suffer and wait until T9 and only get a base recharge of 240s?  If my suggestions above were so horrible, how do others propose to fix this issue?  Even if you bump up the recharge on SoC, the recharge on MC needs to come down to match - but then still you have the problem of one set getting the same power at lvl 8 vs the other at lvl 32.  And fixing that issue involves tinkering with typical T9 pets - one set loses it or the other set gains it.  

 

I hear all you others who don't think MC needs a pet or doesn't want the set to be like the others.  MC is already not like the others and adding a pet at T9 won't make it "just like the others."  And not only would a pet help add damage for controllers, I think it'd be cool to have one of Penny's storms.  But I still would be ok without a pet as long as a viable and fair solution to Seeds of Confusion and Mass Confusion can be made. 

[Eldyem]

I'm going to agree that there's a huge disparity between Seeds and Mass Confuse, but I honestly don't think making Mass Confuse into Seeds 2 fixes my core issues with Mind Control, which is that it gives up a lot of useful utility and damage by having no immobilizes plus a third-tier hold, and replaces them with powers of questionable utility, but not such questionable utility that anyone is considering throwing them out and starting over (not that we would).

 

Mesmerize is a clunkier way to apply ST containment. Levitate animates slower than Lift, which makes it substantially worse as a damage-dealing power (I know it doesn't have defense tags, but honestly that's another issue if you mess around in AE). Terrify's fear is just less useful (not useless) without an immob. Telekinises is a cool power with a massive learning curve and almost no situation where it's worth the effort to actually learn. How do we fix these issues?

 

I would personally address these issues before I touch Mass Confusion, a power that's not bad but compares unfavorably to a power that is honestly incredibly busted. And a part of that is because Mind Control would still compare unfavorably to a lot of other control sets even if MC was 60 seconds.

 

EDIT because I gave no actual suggestions: A personal pie-in-the-sky approach to fixing Mind Control, in my opinion, might be adding -status resistance to the various powers as a sort of "wearing down" your enemies. One of Mind's niches is having a lot of Holds to throw out to attempt to permahold an AV in specific circumstances; why not lean into that? It would only really help the Holds and solo players, but Mind Control doesn't feel any weaker than any other low-damage control set in 99% of group play anyways.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Eldyem

[Mezmera]

3 hours ago, chi1701 said:

 

If mind control does not need pets, why is it then that these so called "pets" do not give experience points for foes they defeat?

 

If you use Mass Confusion on a group and then spam a few aoe's to help them kill each other as they'll ignore you the clear time of that mob and every other mob will far exceed anything a pet can offer you.  The loss in xp is laughable if you help kill the group, if all you do is hit them with Mass Confusion either you're doing it wrong or you've got an objective you're trying to be sneaky with.  

 

Clear time gained with Mass Confusion and spiking some aoe damage > Whatever t9 pet you can think of.  The faster the clear the faster you can move on to the next group for more of that juicy xp's.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mezmera

[Mezmera]

3 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

@Mezmera and @... Yes, I do spend time on the forums, and yes I did do a search and nothing came up on this topic when I searched.  There was a million other threads that mentioned "mind" or mentioned "control" but none that I saw that mentioned the Mind Control Powerset.  The others must have been buried. 😛

 

@Mezmera, you are right in that Seeds of Confusion far exceeds what a T5 power should do.  But also, Mass Confusion at T9 with 4x the longer recharge is FAR too weak for what a T9 should be compared to what other sets get in the way of their pets (damage, buffs, debuffs, mezzes, and etc).  Mass Confusion is a great power but it's not T9 worthy and needs a shorter recharge, imo.  And thanks for the invite to team with your Dom, but I also have a Mind Control Dom and love it and know exactly what it can do.  And I've played Mind Control on a Controller as well - they don't get a damage set to help get through mobs - soloing is can be quite painful like trying to solo an Ice Controller.  Mind Control is just lacking that extra little "oomph" most other control sets have and then there is the blatant bias with Seeds of Confusion. 

 

So if we leave Mass Confusion at T9 and the 240s recharge, then Seeds of Confusion needs to seriously be reworked and moved to T9 with a long recharge (which I would be ok with this scenario).  But that would cause the pet to be dropped from the set and another power needed to replace the empty T5 slot.  I doubt this will ever happen.  So we are left with an imbalance between the 2 sets and it should be fixed. 

 

Why should Plant Controllers get to have a mass confusion power at T5 and 60s base recharge and Mind Controllers have to suffer and wait until T9 and only get a base recharge of 240s?  If my suggestions above were so horrible, how do others propose to fix this issue?  Even if you bump up the recharge on SoC, the recharge on MC needs to come down to match - but then still you have the problem of one set getting the same power at lvl 8 vs the other at lvl 32.  And fixing that issue involves tinkering with typical T9 pets - one set loses it or the other set gains it.  

 

I hear all you others who don't think MC needs a pet or doesn't want the set to be like the others.  MC is already not like the others and adding a pet at T9 won't make it "just like the others."  And not only would a pet help add damage for controllers, I think it'd be cool to have one of Penny's storms.  But I still would be ok without a pet as long as a viable and fair solution to Seeds of Confusion and Mass Confusion can be made. 

 

I've been playing Mind doms from the beginning of villains.  I don't contend there isn't shortcomings on Controllers but that seems to be something that needs sorted out specific to that AT.  If you can't do special things on your Mind dom you're not using it to its full potential.

 

You get an aggroless aoe confuse power, another hard aoe control in total domination, you can cycle between the two with each mob for permanent hard control throughout the map.  Then you have another great soft control in Terrify that stops things in their tracks plus boosts your damage output (this is what SoC should be brought in line with) and lastly now an auto hit aoe sleep that'll instantly stop everything.  You want to talk about utility, no other control set gets 2 hard aoe controls (except broken Plant) let alone one with 4 types of aoe control that you can tactically deploy in whatever manner fits the situation.  

 

You can keep that aoe immobilize which doesn't stop targets from attacking you and your pet that will trip up aggro when you don't want it and provides far less ability than a power that can make a mob kill itself without targeting you.  

 

Plant control came late in the game where it hasn't yet received any balance passes because likely whomever made it wanted the powers that be watching over to see how popular this new toy was that they created to validate their work so they left it OP at the beginning and the game shut down before it would have been given Mind Control's treatment.  Stop using Plant as the bar, it's broken OP, we know, we get it. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mezmera

[Vanden]

6 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

Why should Plant Controllers get to have a mass confusion power at T5 and 60s base recharge

 

Short answer: it shouldn't.

[TheZag]

We have a mind control/psionic assault on torchbearer that has 5k or 6k vet levels and solo'd pretty much everything on max difficulty so that makes me feel that mind control doesnt need anything.

 

But for controllers,  without a damage dealing secondary,  i can see that some would consider the set as underperforming.  I sleep 1 guy, then hold a guy, then confuse another and kill the last - on my dominator.  On a controller that same combo leaves the controlled enemies alone and loses out on most of the containment damage.  

[Eldyem]

5 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Plant control came late in the game where it hasn't yet received any balance passes because likely whomever made it wanted the powers that be watching over to see how popular this new toy was that they created to validate their work so they left it OP at the beginning and the game shut down before it would have been given Mind Control's treatment.  Stop using Plant as the bar, it's broken OP, we know, we get it. 

 

Plant Control was Issue 6. That was 2005. Seven years before the game got shut down.

 

1 hour ago, TheZag said:

We have a mind control/psionic assault on torchbearer that has 5k or 6k vet levels and solo'd pretty much everything on max difficulty so that makes me feel that mind control doesnt need anything.

 

But for controllers,  without a damage dealing secondary,  i can see that some would consider the set as underperforming.  I sleep 1 guy, then hold a guy, then confuse another and kill the last - on my dominator.  On a controller that same combo leaves the controlled enemies alone and loses out on most of the containment damage.  

 

I don't think that being capable of soloing everything with a secondary that is notably very good at soloing AVs is a fair comparison. I'm sure there are Controller secondaries that can solo the majority of the content Mind/Psi could.

[Frozen Burn]

5 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

I've been playing Mind doms from the beginning of villains.  I don't contend there isn't shortcomings on Controllers but that seems to be something that needs sorted out specific to that AT.  If you can't do special things on your Mind dom you're not using it to its full potential.

 

You get an aggroless aoe confuse power, another hard aoe control in total domination, you can cycle between the two with each mob for permanent hard control throughout the map.  Then you have another great soft control in Terrify that stops things in their tracks plus boosts your damage output (this is what SoC should be brought in line with) and lastly now an auto hit aoe sleep that'll instantly stop everything.  You want to talk about utility, no other control set gets 2 hard aoe controls (except broken Plant) let alone one with 4 types of aoe control that you can tactically deploy in whatever manner fits the situation.  

 

You can keep that aoe immobilize which doesn't stop targets from attacking you and your pet that will trip up aggro when you don't want it and provides far less ability than a power that can make a mob kill itself without targeting you.  

 

Plant control came late in the game where it hasn't yet received any balance passes because likely whomever made it wanted the powers that be watching over to see how popular this new toy was that they created to validate their work so they left it OP at the beginning and the game shut down before it would have been given Mind Control's treatment.  Stop using Plant as the bar, it's broken OP, we know, we get it. 

 

Yes, a Mind Dom can do amazing things.  I know, I have one.  Yes, there are great things about about the set that make it unique (2 AOE hard controls and 2 AOE soft controls, like you said) and that is why I like it.  However, even as a Dom, it still seems to under-damage compared to other Doms, like Fire, Plant, Grav, Electric, and Dark.  

 

Plant Control came mid-game during live, if I recall, and if it hasn't had it's turn at balancing - then this is part of what this thread is to highlight.  Mind Control hasn't had it's day in the sun for balancing and tweaking - so it's past time to get these 2 sets tweaked and aligned.

 

2 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

Short answer: it shouldn't.

 

Exactly - that's my point.  Either be fair and align Mass Confusion with it, or change up Seeds of Confusion.  So how about offering up a practical suggested solution to the problem?  If SoC shouldn't be T5 and 60s base recharge, what do you think it should be?

 

1 hour ago, TheZag said:

We have a mind control/psionic assault on torchbearer that has 5k or 6k vet levels and solo'd pretty much everything on max difficulty so that makes me feel that mind control doesnt need anything.

 

But for controllers,  without a damage dealing secondary,  i can see that some would consider the set as underperforming.  I sleep 1 guy, then hold a guy, then confuse another and kill the last - on my dominator.  On a controller that same combo leaves the controlled enemies alone and loses out on most of the containment damage.  

 

First, vet levels don't say how good a toon is or how great the power sets are... it just means that the player has played that toon a LOT (and I know you are referencing Number Six who does great things with their toon).  🙂   I too play a Mind/Psy Assault Dom and yes, you can do amazing things, especially since you have the damage set to go with it.  Doms are basically blasters with control - a very deadly combo.  But as I mentioned above, it kills a little slower compared to other Doms.  

 

And yes, controllers with Mind Control suffer - which is what I am aiming to highlight with this thread. 

 

The changes I am proposing:  align the AOE confuse power with Plant (and get that OP set balanced), and add in pet for extra damage for controllers - these are not game breaking changes.  I think we all can see the need for balancing and alignment between Mind and Plant.  

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Frozen Burn

[TheZag]

I was attempting to say mind control controllers werent really comparable to mind control dominators with my post but words messed it up.  Not that vet levels made it good but someone with that many vet levels probably figured out a top performing build.  A controller may be able to solo everything too but i can guarantee that it will be alot slower than a dominator.

 

Makes it difficult to buff mind control for controllers and leave it alone for dominators.

[Frozen Burn]

1 hour ago, TheZag said:

I was attempting to say mind control controllers werent really comparable to mind control dominators with my post but words messed it up.  Not that vet levels made it good but someone with that many vet levels probably figured out a top performing build.  A controller may be able to solo everything too but i can guarantee that it will be alot slower than a dominator.

 

Makes it difficult to buff mind control for controllers and leave it alone for dominators.

 

I hear you and understand.  But tweaks and buffs for Mind Control would not make Mind Doms OP - it would put them more in line with other high damage Doms.  My Fire/Fire Dom literally melts mobs way faster than my Mind/Psy... but that's Fire... but even my Dark/Psy Dom kills faster than my Mind/Psy Dom.  So a bit of a buff to Mind Control would help the Mind/Psy Dom be more like other Doms and it would GREATLY help Mind Controllers come up a peg or two.

[Mezmera]

25 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

I hear you and understand.  But tweaks and buffs for Mind Control would not make Mind Doms OP - it would put them more in line with other high damage Doms.  My Fire/Fire Dom literally melts mobs way faster than my Mind/Psy... but that's Fire... but even my Dark/Psy Dom kills faster than my Mind/Psy Dom.  So a bit of a buff to Mind Control would help the Mind/Psy Dom be more like other Doms and it would GREATLY help Mind Controllers come up a peg or two.

 

Maybe it's a problem with the synergy choice of your secondary for your dom.  Assaults are where you want to pull damage from.  I mean you're secondary IS one of the top damage assaults for your Fire dom.  

 

Mind is about massive amounts of control.  Fire control is about adding a little bit more damage at the cost of allowing enemies better opportunity to spike you.  Fire is kinda broken at the moment thanks to how Bonfire interacts with that KD IO, take that away and it underperforms for sure.  Sure would be nice if we didn't compare things to obviously broken things.  

 

You're not out damaging my Mind/Nrg/Soul with whatever dom you can conjure aside from a Plant dom.  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mezmera

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

Exactly - that's my point.  Either be fair and align Mass Confusion with it, or change up Seeds of Confusion.  So how about offering up a practical suggested solution to the problem?  If SoC shouldn't be T5 and 60s base recharge, what do you think it should be?

 

Realistically you would double the recharge and narrow the cone for starters, lower target limit to 10.  Plant would be just fine with that.  Maybe we can see this happen.  

 

As soon as this happens though there will be a topic every week to suggest a change to Seeds of Confusion because they can't walk through the map mass spamming a hard aoe confuse control power.

[Frozen Burn]

 

21 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Maybe it's a problem with the synergy choice of your secondary for your dom.  Assaults are where you want to pull damage from.  Mind is about massive amounts of control.  Fire control is about adding a little bit more damage at the cost of allowing enemies better opportunity to spike you.  Fire is kinda broken at the moment thanks to how Bonfire interacts with that KD IO, take that away and it underperforms for sure.  Sure would be nice if we didn't compare things to obviously broken things.  

 

You're not out damaging my Mind/Nrg/Soul with whatever dom you can conjure aside from a Plant dom.  

 

Agreed, the Assaults are where you pull your bulk damage from.  However, with most control sets, there are those blasted AOE immobs that provide damage and for Controllers, needed Containment damage - Mind Control doesn't get anything to provide that.  I am NOT saying I want an AOE imob in Mind Control - God no!  I like Mind Control because it DOESN'T have the AOE immob (which most people do not know how to properly use anyway).  But Mind Control doesn't get that extra damage benefit like other sets.  And that is not comparing anything broken.  

 

I don't think Bonfire is broken with the KB-to-KD proc.  It actually fixes it.  Bonfire had / has very little use with out the proc and only draws aggro to the caster who typically dies from that. Situational use when near a corner wall, too.  Now Bonfire is actually useful.  ...but that is all for another argument thread.  🙂 

 

12 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Realistically you would double the recharge and narrow the cone for starters, lower target limit to 10.  Plant would be just fine with that.  Maybe we can see this happen.  

 

As soon as this happens though there will be a topic every week to suggest a change to Seeds of Confusion because they can't walk through the map mass spamming a hard aoe confuse control power.

 

That's a good idea.  I like narrowing the cone and doubling the recharge.  However, even at capping it to 10 foes, with the Contagious Confusion proc, they could still potentially get it affect as many foes as it does now.  I think it would have to be more like 5 foes max.  

 

And yes, of course, it would spawn more discussion / arguments and Planties would disparage and scream "DOOM" - but that shouldn't stop us from changing and fixing it.  🙂 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Frozen Burn

[Mezmera]

24 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

 

Agreed, the Assaults are where you pull your bulk damage from.  However, with most control sets, there are those blasted AOE immobs that provide damage and for Controllers, needed Containment damage - Mind Control doesn't get anything to provide that.  I am NOT saying I want an AOE imob in Mind Control - God no!  I like Mind Control because it DOESN'T have the AOE immob (which most people do not know how to properly use anyway).  But Mind Control doesn't get that extra damage benefit like other sets.  And that is not comparing anything broken.  

 

I don't think Bonfire is broken with the KB-to-KD proc.  It actually fixes it.  Bonfire had / has very little use with out the proc and only draws aggro to the caster who typically dies from that. Situational use when near a corner wall, too.  Now Bonfire is actually useful.  ...but that is all for another argument thread.  🙂 

 

 

That's a good idea.  I like narrowing the cone.  However, even at capping it to 10 foes, with the Contagious Confusion proc, they could still potentially get it affect as many foes as it does now.  I think it would have to be more like 5 foes.  

 

And yes, of course, it would spawn more discussion / arguments and Planties would disparage and scream "DOOM" - but that shouldn't stop us from changing and fixing it.  🙂 

 

Yes Mind Controllers could use a specific look into because of how little aoe damage opportunity there is with how containment works for them. 

 

Bonfire is very much broken with that hax IO.  Take that away and your Fire dom has so very little control, then you are getting spiked stupid hard and can't push out that damage.   You're handcuffed to how OP one power is when you slot a specific IO.  

 

You can take away any one of Mind's aoe controls and you can still adapt to control things while you wail away at the mobs.  

 

As for the Seeds suggestion that's just an easy identifiable starting point.  Yes the contagious confuse will still dictate that it does well.  How narrow you make the cone will have a big impact as well.  So 10 is just the starting point. 

 

Creepers and Seeds are two of the most OP controls in the game and they are on the same team, the only other really broken control needs a specific IO for.  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mezmera

[Greycat]

46 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

 

 

That's a good idea.  I like narrowing the cone and doubling the recharge.  However, even at capping it to 10 foes, with the Contagious Confusion proc, they could still potentially get it affect as many foes as it does now.  I think it would have to be more like 5 foes max.  

 

And yes, of course, it would spawn more discussion / arguments and Planties would disparage and scream "DOOM" - but that shouldn't stop us from changing and fixing it.  🙂 

 

I don't think the target cap would have to be gutted that dramatically. It *still* causes aggro (which MC doesn't,) after all...

[Mezmera]

39 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

I don't think the target cap would have to be gutted that dramatically. It *still* causes aggro (which MC doesn't,) after all...

 

And that's where we get into the weeds with how harsh you want to go gutting it.  That's where I offered earlier that if we don't want to go pissing off a bunch of people completely then maybe adding a self buffing ability to Mass Confusion could be the better alternative along with some nerfing on Seeds.  Mass Confusion's recharge and how the power operates on the surface should not be adjusted.  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mezmera