Is there a Brute Tier List similar to Croax's Stalker Tier List?

[Hjarki]

I don't like 'tier lists' for melee because they tend to overlook the synergy between primary and secondary.

 

For example, my current (non-farming) Brute is Staff/Stone. I would consider it one of the best combination possible on a Brute for general purpose play. But I'm not sure I'd consider either Staff or Stone 'top tier' in isolation. Staff has relatively weak single target damage while Stone has serious endurance problems. However, the combination of two sets that can each fix the problem in the other makes it a top tier combination - I can tank pretty much anything with confidence while also dishing out more damage than other comparably tank-y builds can generate and I can do it without Incarnate powers.

[IronJuke]

Rad Armor is really really good.  I would put it at same level as Invulnerability.  Also it has high Toxic resist, which is so nice, especially when leveling.  

 

Thinking of rolling another Brute.  I played my Titan Weapon/Rad Armor Brute for about a year. I used him for farming and P/Ling.  Then they nerfed TW.  I haven't played him since. 

 

You could get used to the long animations.  During leveling it was worse but I got used to the lugubrious playstyle.  It's easier to build momentum in the final playstyle.  Also, you don't mind long animations so much when you crush the things really hard at the end of it. 

 

Rad Armor is really really good.  It's definitely top tier.  It's easy to cap all of your resists and S/L Melee Defense out... but, then you get Meltdown, which is a straight up damage boost, and "oh Sh*t Button" with no downside.  Unstoppable got me killed so many times in live and on my Tanker on HC, it's pretty unusable.  

 

Taunt Aura Beta Decay lowers defense and to-Hit on Mobs.   If that's not enough agro and you like to team you can add Taunt to the mix to be extra Aggrolicious to mobs.   

Also it has high Toxic resist, which is so nice, especially while leveling you are laughing at the puke damage from Hydra and Zombies.

 

I made a Rad/Fire Brute I use for farming, P/Ling and well anything.   The Build has S/L Defense soft-capped and S/L resists capped as well, so it's ready for anything.   

Rad Melee is super strong and pairs well with Fire.  Fire is not just a one trick Pony. 

 

Not sure what I am going to go with for the next one though.  Maybe another Rad Armor since it's so durable. 

 

[Uun]

11 hours ago, IronJuke said:

It's easy to cap all of your resists and S/L Melee Defense out.

Disagree. You can't cap cold (or psi) resists, and you'd be hard pressed to cap fire or neg. While I'm sure you could soft cap S/L and melee defense, it's certainly not easy and not sure how you could without gimping your offense. It also has no DDR, so your defense can get stripped away easily. I do like Rad (my Rad/Rad scrapper is vet level 45 or so) but I don't rank it at the same level as Invul. I find Rad is more of a hybrid resist/regen set, but sturdier than Willpower.

[IronJuke]

On 1/14/2022 at 4:53 AM, Uun said:

Disagree. You can't cap cold (or psi) resists, and you'd be hard pressed to cap fire or neg. While I'm sure you could soft cap S/L and melee defense, it's certainly not easy and not sure how you could without gimping your offense. It also has no DDR, so your defense can get stripped away easily. I do like Rad (my Rad/Rad scrapper is vet level 45 or so) but I don't rank it at the same level as Invul. I find Rad is more of a hybrid resist/regen set, but sturdier than Willpower.

I should’ve said S/L Resists.  You are right, I don’t know any AT that could do that. 
 

Meltdown is pretty good at filling holes there.  But there’s no way to cap them all out using any Resist powersets.
 

As far as DDR goes I used Ageless and also Defensive Sweep on my TW/Rad.
And, when Defense started to cascade and a few applications would fix a lot of scenarios. There are only four power sets (BW, Kat, Staff, TW) that have a Parry.  I have Katana Inv Tanker since 2019 launch…  so if I need to be unkillable that’s my go to. That char has died maybe once or twice.  It’s embarrassing, but it happens sometimes.    

Edited January 15, 2022 by IronJuke

[elkhor]

I find this post's lack of WM/EA references disturbing... Yet its so Strong and Pretty™

Edited January 15, 2022 by elkhor
mah grammar

[ScarySai]

For brute specifically:

 

Primaries

 

S. Savage, Claws, Ice Melee, Rad Melee* (* - for farming only, A+ otherwise)

 

A. Katana, War Mace

 

B. Dark Melee, Energy

 

C. Stone Melee, Super Strength, STJ, Dual Blades, Titan Weapons, Elec melee

 

D. Staff, Psionic, Fiery Melee

 

F. Spines, Axe, Broadsword, Martial arts, KM

 

A lot of these sets place higher on other ATs due to scaling, but brutes are weird in that regard. Dark melee would be S tier on my scrapper list, because soul drain + crits are wild. I also believe that brutes have the best version of Savage by far.

 

Secondaries:

 

S: Dark Armor, Fire Armor, Rad armor, Electric armor, Bio.

 

A: Shield, Stone, Invuln, Willpower, Energy

 

B: Ice Armor.

 

C. SR, Regen.

 

Due to brute's defensive caps and scaling, nothing really in D/F territory if built properly. Additionally, brutes are by far the strongest characters to start out as, they crush the game early on and have less issues and IO dependencies there for the most part.

Edited January 20, 2022 by ScarySai

[Apparition]

That's a very good list in general, but I have to question putting Martial Arts *below* Kinetic Melee and Fiery Melee on Brutes.  At worst, I'd rate it C tier, and honestly more like B.  With enough recharge, it really shines.  Best paired with Electric Armor, Energy Aura, Radiation Armor, and Stone Armor IMO.

[ScarySai]

Fire's higher due to AoE, and KM probably should be down there too for brute, yeah.  

 

Martial's #1 problem is aoe, so it has terrible clear speed. Shame that eagle claw change got reverted.

[Erratic1]

Electric Melee seems to be missing from the list.

[Sovera]

Ice melee in first? Energy Melee as B? Same as Dark Melee? Rad Melee first but just for farming?

 

😄 Okay.

[Uun]

13 hours ago, ScarySai said:

C. SR, Regen.

Have you ever played SR? Definitely belongs in A tier, if not S.

[Apparition]

IMO, it'd be more along the lines of:

 

 

Primaries:

 

• S: Claws, Energy Melee, Savage Melee
• A: Katana, Martial Arts, War Mace
• B: Dark Melee, Electrical Melee, Ice Melee, Titan Weapons
• C: Dual Blades, Radiation Melee, Stone Melee, Street Justice
• D: Fiery Melee, Psionic Melee, Staff Fighting, Super Strength
• F: Battle Axe, Broadsword, Kinetic Melee, Spines

 

Secondaries:

 

• S: Bio Armor, Radiation Armor
• A: Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Invulnerability, Stone Armor
• B: Energy Aura, Fiery Aura, Shield Defense, Willpower
• C: Ice Armor, Super Reflexes
• D: Regeneration

[Without_Pause]

I just find Savage being listed as S tier when Hemo isn't worth taking as rather interesting.

[Erratic1]

Having an SS/Bio [Apparition Tier: D/S] and an Elec/Stone [B/A] it will be interesting to see how my next intended brute, a Claws/Inv [S/A] works out.

 

The SS/Bio is quite enjoyable despite my laziness in actually completing his build.

The Elec/Stone is still levelling and not yet swapped into IOs but she's come around the corner on endurance issues while still on SOs.

[ScarySai]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

Have you ever played SR? Definitely belongs in A tier, if not S.

 

I have, and it's absolutely not S or A material, especially on +4.

 

@Without_Pause Most sets have a skippable power, and hemo is not important to savage's success. It performs incredibly well regardless.

Edited January 20, 2022 by ScarySai

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I have, and it's absolutely not S or A material, especially on +4.

 

Are you basing this purely off the set's complete lack of +damage? Cuz there's no way you're basing it off of the mitigation it provides.

[ScarySai]

If you say so.

[IronJuke]

15 hours ago, ScarySai said:

 

Primaries

 

D. Staff, Psionic, KM, Fiery Melee

 

 

Not sure why all hate for Psionic.  I recently started messing around with it, and it seems pretty solid.  I wouldn't say it's 'S' Tier necessarily without playing it more.

Issues would be that it has 2 AoE powers, not AoE Heavy and no damage Aura.  Really strong against most enemies, weak against Robots.  Maybe you have more experience with it than I do. 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by IronJuke

[ScarySai]

Keep in mind it's a list for brutes. Psionic and KM would be much higher for stalkers, dark in S/A tier for scrappers, regen in F tier for anything else, ect.

 

I'd probably change a few placements but not many.

Edited January 20, 2022 by ScarySai

[Without_Pause]

17 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

@Without_Pause Most sets have a skippable power, and hemo is not important to savage's success. It performs incredibly well regardless.

I double checked, there are few T8s which I would skip, and I don't feel like those sets are that impacted by doing so. Savage's ST damage isn't that great without Hemo as it should be the heavy hitter. Even if one wants AoE, it is at best third.

[ScarySai]

8 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Savage's ST damage isn't that great without Hemo as it should be the heavy hitter.

 

But it isn't. So your best chain is gloom>vicious>maim>savage or some variation of what your stats afford you. Bloodthirsty can cause some scary burst(?) windows.

8 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Even if one wants AoE, it is at best third.

 

I don't disagree, it's probably around third for AoE, but that's not bad at all. I personally think overall it's the best in a general application, as it's performance is near top end in pretty much everything you can throw at it. Leveling, AV soloing, challenge settings, it's a very good set despite hemo being terrible.

Edited January 20, 2022 by ScarySai

[Without_Pause]

4 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

But it isn't. So your best chain is gloom>vicious>maim>savage or some variation of what your stats afford you. Bloodthirsty can cause some scary burst(?) windows.

Not really helping your case if you need to add in an epic pool attack. Not all builds can afford to do that, see SR and Shield.

[ScarySai]

That doesn't sound like a problem with savage to me. Or am I supposed to ignore that gloom has been notoriously good for some arbitrary reason? I would use gloom for almost every single set.

 

This argument you are trying to have is why I don't think the tier list format really works for individual powersets.

Edited January 20, 2022 by ScarySai

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

That doesn't sound like a problem with savage to me. Or am I supposed to ignore that gloom has been notoriously good for some arbitrary reason? I would use gloom for almost every single set.

 

Agreed. The problem is gloom.

 

From Brute Epics and using arcanatime:

Gloom: 7 ticks at 9.1757 = 64.23 and a DPA of 48.66

Fire Blast: 41.71 + 3 ticks at 4.1708 = 54.22 and a DPA of 29.34

Mu Lightning: 55.0542 and a DPA of 41.7

Disruptor Blast: 41.7078 and a DPA of 18.59

Spirit Shark: 41.7077 + 3 ticks at 4.1708 = 54.22 and a DPA of 17.11

Laser Beam Eyes: 41.7077 and a DPA of 22.57

 

Only Mu Lightning is even close.

[ScarySai]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Agreed. The problem is gloom.

 

From Brute Epics and using arcanatime:

Gloom: 7 ticks at 9.1757 = 64.23 and a DPA of 48.66

Fire Blast: 41.71 + 3 ticks at 4.1708 = 54.22 and a DPA of 29.34

Mu Lightning: 55.0542 and a DPA of 41.7

Disruptor Blast: 41.7078 and a DPA of 18.59

Spirit Shark: 41.7077 + 3 ticks at 4.1708 = 54.22 and a DPA of 17.11

Laser Beam Eyes: 41.7077 and a DPA of 22.57

 

Only Mu Lightning is even close.

 

At this stage of the game, I'd like to see the other ones brought up. Additionally, since gloom is a DoT, it's actually performing close to what it should be. The cast time is the real thing that makes it extra good.

 

A shame that a cool power like the shark is kneecaps by several bad decisions, such as being lethal with a long cast.