Ultimate Support Character?

[Socks10]

The alt-itis is this game is ridiculous. I'm currently looking into creating, what I think would be, the ultimate support character. A Defender is what I would think would be the best idea for this, but I could be wrong. This is a character to play with friends who most likely won't have the best gear on, or even the best power choices. What I am looking for in a character: 

 

1. I want to be able to heal. 

2. I want to be able to rez.

3. I want to be able to teleport my teammates.

4. I want to take the Leadership pool. 

5. I would like to be able to stealth. 

 

My main problem, is trying to fit all of this in. There are not enough power pool choices. Hasten is necessary on pretty much all builds, that's the first pool. Teleport would be another pool. Teleport requires Hover really, that's the third pool. And the last would be Leadership. No room for stealth (although I do realize some stealth can come from some of the Defender primaries and using the Celerity IO with Speed). 

 

I thought about An Illusion Controller for this, because of the Invisibility in the primary powerset, but I still feel like a defender might be the best bet to hit all of my wants. 

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[The_Warpact]

Thermal, 2 heals, rez, buff, and debuffs. You take stealth, hasten, leadership, teleport. 

Tp has a 15 sec hover option, I would use SS since you have Hasten, and just use TP friend/foe to move teammates if necessary and use regular TP for vertical surfaces.

Stealth you could get Invisibility to.put on teammates also.

 

I would go controller for the holds, immobilize, sleep, confuse, etc for maximum team assist.

Edited January 25, 2022 by The_Warpact
Forgot something

[Carnifax]

Stealth aura + celerity-slotted sprint works.

 

So that gives you Dark, Storm and Cold since they have Stealth auras. Dark is the only one with a Rez, albeit one which needs an enemy. It also has a heal and oodles of -ToHit 

 

That said my initial though was Nature. It has a Rez & lots of heals. More importantly it has 3 very nice AoE buffs which are nice in endgame (people chase Def so a resist power is nice, as is an Absorb shield for all and Overgrowth is excellent).

 

(Warpacts choice is also a good one for similar reasons, gels really well with endgame builds)

[Socks10]

I guess the main issue is figuring out how to fit everything into a build. The Stealth aura + celerity-slotted sprint is a good idea. Also, Warpacts suggestion on travel powers is helpful too. That does allow me to fit everything in. I forgot to mention, I do have a level 39 Thermal/Sonic Defender that I haven't used lately. I could probably rework to use the suggestions above to meet my needs. I also just started a NA/Rad Defender on a new server last week and they are on 22, so another option. 

 

I typically do lean towards Controllers. I have Grav/Time, Grav/Storm, Ice/Ice at high levels, and I have recently been playing a Fire/Dark with friends. I'll look into builds on some of these to see if I can fit the power pools I want as well. Fire/Dark could fit, but I may look into a new build with a secondary that can rez a bit more easily. 

 

Thanks for the ideas. 

[Without_Pause]

Do you need more team teleport options beyond Assemble the Team and TT? To me those two cover a lot of what is needed in terms of teleporting a team around.

[Socks10]

13 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Do you need more team teleport options beyond Assemble the Team and TT? To me those two cover a lot of what is needed in terms of teleporting a team around.

 

Um, I'm not really sure. I haven't really used TP much at all. I really just wanted to be able to teleport my team to me occasionally. I guess moving a dead body out of harms way before a rez would be nice too. This does remind me that my Ice Tanker has an Assemble the Team power from somewhere and it doesn't look temporary. No idea where I got it from. He might even have a temporary rez. 

 

I have been looking into options for this build and can't really land on anything that fits perfectly. I'm trying to fit too many power pools into this. The current front runners are my Thermal/Sonic Defender or a new Earth/Emp Controller. Both only have a limited number of skippable powers, so it will be a struggle to get what I'm looking for. 

[Without_Pause]

You can get the badge for ATT by getting mentor badges or via P2W. If you want to TP a single person, then the TP pool is a better option. IIRC, a bit of Hover was added to Teleport to make it easier to use so you don't have to have Hover although I tend to take it on support characters. Loading up on pool powers can mean less epics, but that can be dealt with. Ill/emp should be easy enough to pull off. 

[Doomguide2005]

     Well "Ultimate" support toon is very much in the Eye of the Beholder ... quite literally. Are you 'eyeing' an SR Tanker whose 18th level or a Fire/Sonic Controller whose 33rd or an end game t4 incarnated /Fire Brute or Blaster.  Are you supporting them specifically (filling gaps and weaknesses in their build) or supporting their killing efforts?

 

    Any Defender or Corruptor can get any of the pool and other non-primary/secondary powers you seek.  So

 

--> Thermal has heals, a rez, mez protection and resist shields plus some nasty debuffs.  No regen, recharge or recovery buffs.

--> Pain heal and DoT absorb, rez, mez protection, debuffs and regen and recovery buffs.  No shields per se (but has a single target +dmg/+to hit buff)

--> Aaaand 14 more sets

 

What do you want to provide, what's the priorities involved?  You mentioned friends, what are they playing?

For pre endgame support of less than optimal builds it's hard to beat an Empath, their buffs are pretty much second to none.  But Empaths have no debuffs, no ability in their set to effect the foes.  Any of that has to come from the other half of the pairing which is why Thermal and Pain tend to be mentioned as alternates to Empaths.  About the only thing an Empath can't buff is an allies damage resistance.  

 

Something like Dark Miasma is an entirely different sort of support.  Their support is almost entirely directed at making the foes ineffectual.  Don't need Shields when your foes have trouble hitting the Barn and when they do it's like a slap not a good roundhouse to the jaw.  For example their Heal and their Rez

Their AoE heal (Twilight's Grasp) debuffs their foes to hit, their damage and their regeneration.

The Rez (Howling Twilight) is arguably one of the best powers in the game.  It rezzes multiple allies while stunning, recharge debuffing, slowing and debuffing regeneration.  It's been used infamously to "Stun" an observing Redname during a Hami Raid gone badly sideways when the HT targeted, iirc, the pseudo pet created by Tar Patch to rez a huge chunk of characters dead after a mito bloom.

 

Food for thought ... so what sort of support did you have in mind?

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Doomguide2005

[Socks10]

Well, hello @Doomguide2005! Your name has popped up a lot when doing my own research into this question on the forums. In fact, you had posts in two threads that got me to create an Earth/Emp controller yesterday and a Bots/Emp MM today. 

 

The "Ultimate Support Character" is probably not a proper term for it. Basically, I was looking to make a character that could fit heals, a rez, group teleports, leadership buffs, and maybe stealth. The problem is, that's a lot of pools to fit into a character. My thought with the Bots/Emp MM is that I could skip all attack powers and just have my pets, their buffs, and a good support secondary. In this case, Emp. A quick look at Mids and I think I can make it work. But there is going to have to be some hard choices about maybe not having Hasten, or maybe not having an Epic power set. 

 

As for my group of friends, they have a problem with too many alts too. So it would be hard to state a typical group makeup. But, the times I have felt most useful is when using my Tanker. I just keep all the aggro and let them do whatever. But, I don't always want to tank, so I have many other alts. Lately, we've had a Fire/Dark Controller (me), a scrapper, a corruptor, and a mastermind. It's worked out pretty good. 

 

I already have a Thermal/Sonic Defender in the high 30s, but I haven't used him much. I feel like without much control or a good tank, I would have lots of chances to use my heal and rez powers, but it wouldn't go too well. I will still look for a good group makeup where I could take him for a test drive with my friends though. So, in the meantime, I landed on the Earth/Emp controller and the Bots/Emp MM. I think the MM will give me more room for pool powers though, as I really only consider one power skippable in Emp and I think there were only 2 I'd skip in Earth. As for Bots, I can skip 4 if I stick with pets and their buffs only. 

 

Anyway, that's a bit of a ramble, but I hope you get a better idea where I'm coming from. 

[Doomguide2005]

 

18 minutes ago, Socks10 said:

 

Anyway, that's a bit of a ramble, but I hope you get a better idea where I'm coming from. 

Absolutely,

For helping a group of friends especially pre 40 (particularly much earlier) I think Earth/Empathy would work very well.  I was asked once long ago (well before IOs came along) by a friend on his early teens Tanker for some healing/support assistance.  Probably hoping for my Emp/Dark.  But I was thinking what was happening was the team getting a bit too much aggro and trying to break and him being on a Tanker getting chased ... a lot and everyone getting shot to bits.  So enter Quicksand.  Lot easier to withdraw when the baddies are dealing with QS and made the Healing I did have at that level able to keep pace without running an end bar dry (no Vigilance, no Stamina etc. days).

[Gobbledigook]

Nature affinity/Plant control with teleport pool, leadership and stealth pool. Call it Natures Remedy 🙂

[Wavicle]

Dark/Dark Controller

[MoonSheep]

surprisingly i’ve found my kin/sonic defender to be my favourite support character over the last 2.5 years

 

- SB from lvl 12 is such a great buff and makes a huge difference at low levels. everyone loves SB!

- powerboosted transfusion is a mighty, mighty heal. it can change the outcome of a battle

- powerboosted veng if a team member falls gives around +60% defence

- fulcrum shift is always a game changer

- nice sonic debuffs to help out further

- fold space helps me bunch up the mobs nicely for fulcrum shift and to allow the AoE team members their chance to shine

[WyntirVale]

Related, but what -would- be the ultimate support? Unlike OP, lets say no restrictions. Would a controller be better or a defender? What powerset? What is the absolute best you could take to a PuG team?

[Socks10]

4 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

surprisingly i’ve found my kin/sonic defender to be my favourite support character over the last 2.5 years

 

- SB from lvl 12 is such a great buff and makes a huge difference at low levels. everyone loves SB!

- powerboosted transfusion is a mighty, mighty heal. it can change the outcome of a battle

- powerboosted veng if a team member falls gives around +60% defence

- fulcrum shift is always a game changer

- nice sonic debuffs to help out further

- fold space helps me bunch up the mobs nicely for fulcrum shift and to allow the AoE team members their chance to shine

 

I actually have a Kin/Sonic Defender in the 30s. I should give him another spin. 

 

3 hours ago, WyntirVale said:

Related, but what -would- be the ultimate support? Unlike OP, lets say no restrictions. Would a controller be better or a defender? What powerset? What is the absolute best you could take to a PuG team?

 

This is what I'm wondering. I guess it really depends on the group makeup. What is needed. I started with thinking a defender would be it, but it depends. If your group needs it, control would be a better option. 

 

I guess what I've figured out is that there is no ultimate support character. At least not one that perfectly fits. 

[SeraphimKensai]

Personally for me ultimate support means either buffing something that a player can't feasibly reach on their own or debuffing mobs to make a content easier for the team.

 

If we're limited to defenders as they get the largest buff/Debuff modifiers I would really look at Dark Miasma or Kinetics as a primary, although Poison and Thermal work well too. Secondaries I'd consider Sonic, Rad, and even niche case uses for Elec to sap targets so they can't reasonably attack a team.

 

Kin/Sonic, Dark/Elec, Poison/Rad are all pretty fun I have one of each at 50 and fully IO'd. The Dark/Elec has tanked the Dr. Aeon TF, and the Poison/Rad tanks Rommy +4. The Kin/Sonic is a damage force multiplier.

 

Edit:

Also I never dedicate a rez power choice to a build unless that Rez has another purpose, ie. Howling Twilight, as you can buy a temporary resurrect other power from the P2W vendor.

 

Use teleport binds and you'll find it much easier to control teleportation of yourself, and makes hover unnecessary if you need to travel via TP. Superspeed+a Stealth IO is Invis (otherwise Shadow Fall +stealth IO. Stealth IO's always get slotted in a sprint power so you can dedicate better slotting in your actual travel powers for KB prot and slow res.

 

I find that if I have to taxi players around, it's not my fault that I don't have teleport other, it's their fault for not being self sufficient. A stealth IO is really cheap, and even cheaper is base invisibility. As a player I die approximately 10 times a year, usually when I'm drunk, or if I'm sacrificing myself to help the team if someone has vengeance in which case I run in Lee Roy with no toggles on.

 

Defenders though are very easy to softcap to particular defense types S/L/E in particular, so I usually play mine upfront in the melee area.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by SeraphimKensai

[Haijinx]

17 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Dark/Dark Controller

 

I like dark with all the new hard modes having +to hit.  

 

Plus the effects are awesome.  

 

 

[Without_Pause]

13 hours ago, WyntirVale said:

Related, but what -would- be the ultimate support? Unlike OP, lets say no restrictions. Would a controller be better or a defender? What powerset? What is the absolute best you could take to a PuG team?

In a technical way, I would say a Controller is since they are adding in controls. Yes, I know using blasts for extra damage means more dead mobs. I still need to get one to 50, but a Time support character is giving an end game team the basics of what I would want from a support character, +recharge, +end, -resist, -regen, +dmg, heal, and more. In terms of a Controller, a number of primaries work. Plant is just ridiculously good with Seeds. Ill negates alpha strike and can Confuse troublesome targets. Earth just locks things down as well as anything.

 

To be honest, ultimate support can be wide open and in the eye of the beholder. One of the best support characters I had on live was an Earth/storm. My word that build. It is the only one I saw teams openly playing stupid since they knew I had their back.

[WyntirVale]

10 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

In a technical way, I would say a Controller is since they are adding in controls. Yes, I know using blasts for extra damage means more dead mobs. I still need to get one to 50, but a Time support character is giving an end game team the basics of what I would want from a support character, +recharge, +end, -resist, -regen, +dmg, heal, and more. In terms of a Controller, a number of primaries work. Plant is just ridiculously good with Seeds. Ill negates alpha strike and can Confuse troublesome targets. Earth just locks things down as well as anything.

 

To be honest, ultimate support can be wide open and in the eye of the beholder. One of the best support characters I had on live was an Earth/storm. My word that build. It is the only one I saw teams openly playing stupid since they knew I had their back.

I would be super happy with a plants/nature controller thematically. The only thing that bugs me is the OCD knowing defender and corr have bigger buffs. I feel like people would perceive a troller as less supportive and more selfish.

[Without_Pause]

43 minutes ago, WyntirVale said:

I would be super happy with a plants/nature controller thematically. The only thing that bugs me is the OCD knowing defender and corr have bigger buffs. I feel like people would perceive a troller as less supportive and more selfish.

I don't think in my 9+ years of playing CoH I have ever heard someone calling a player picking a controller over a defender less supportive or selfish. Hell, I have felt a bit more selfish for picking a Defender over a Controller.

[Ceejer]

Illusion/Dark/Mace Controller with Teleport Target, Hasten, Spirit Ward, Mystic Flight, Rune of Protection, Maneuvers, Tactics, Vengeance.  

 

On 1/25/2022 at 7:36 AM, Socks10 said:

1. I want to be able to heal. 

2. I want to be able to rez.

3. I want to be able to teleport my teammates.

4. I want to take the Leadership pool. 

5. I would like to be able to stealth.

 

1. Twilight Grasp at level 1.

2. Howling Twilight at level 10, use it as an opening move to stun and allow you to cast Darkest Night.

3. Teleport Target starting at level 4, slot with Winters Gift/Slow Resistance 20%, along with  Assemble the Team and TT. Remember, you'll also be able to pull and pick dropping them right into an awaiting Tar Parch where the pets will get them.

4. Phantasm gets buffed by Leadership as well as the team.

5. Shadow Fall at 16 w/ Stealth IO.

 

21 hours ago, Socks10 said:

As for my group of friends, they have a problem with too many alts too. So it would be hard to state a typical group makeup. But, the times I have felt most useful is when using my Tanker.

 

Phantom Army at level 18 and you are the Tank. Before 18, Blind/ Deceive/Tar Patch can mitigate some agro then you'll get Darkest Night. I think Darkest Night is one of the best taunts in in HC. For a pull to team method, place it on a Tsoo Sorcerer, Malta Gunslinger or Sky Raiders Porter. They'll bring all their known associates back to your team. You'll want to take Sorcery for the Rune of Protection  to use as a break free and +Res. Mystic Flight so you can fly and teleport. Cast Spirit Ward on the Phantasm for +absorb. For an assault the mob method, teleport in while Shadow Fall and Stealth IO are on. The Phantom Army and Phantasm will just make a bee line for you, into the mob.

 

21 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

So enter Quicksand

 

Tar Patch at level 2.

 

One of the keystone powers to this combination is Fade. It's the only non-melee power that offers DDR. This becomes very handy in the late game. Build for lots of +recharge to keep Phantom Army up as much as possible, take Hasten and slot LotG. Soul Absorption after every mob to keep you topped off. Once you get Dark Servant the stacked Twilight Grasp and Darkest Night are noticeable.

[Carnifax]

2 hours ago, WyntirVale said:

The only thing that bugs me is the OCD knowing defender and corr have bigger buffs

Controllers typically have around the same buffs as Corruptors. If defenders are 100% controllers & Corruptors are 75% and masterminds 60%.

 

It's a bit more nuanced than that (each AT has its own raft of modifiers for things like heals, team Def buffs) but typically its more or less the same for corruptors and controllers.

 

Defenders are the best for support, but then you've things like Trick Arrow, controller will be best with the control bits of Ice Arrow and emp arrow, defender will have higher debuffs.

 

Ceejers recommendation is also Carni's build. Even down to the Mace epic and sorcery thrown in there. Very strong combo and the PAs mean you have the best alpha strike opener and decent damage sources. You're full of tricks : AV? PAs, Howling Twilight, Tar Patch, poison ray & maybe Darkest Night for the -dam. 

 

Lighter on "hard control" than other controllers but with Spectral + Darkest Night (along with Fade) nothing is hitting ye.

[Ankhammon]

Dark/Dark/Soul defender. You get shadowfall+SS for inviso power. Fluffy to tank/debuff. You can Fearsome Stare (huge -tohit), torrent (throw em in a corner), tent (immob), darkpit/howling twilight (stun to boss level) all with power boost running to floor 90% of incoming damage for the team. If that fails you can blackstar em for big damage and huuuuuuge -tohit.

Then throw in a Twilight Grasp for some minor healing (actually can heal for a decent amount) and fluffy healing too.

 

so you can leadership if you like or sprinkle in some Teleport stuff and that will set it all up.

 

Bonus, you can take Black Hole for when all else fails option to intangable the biggest baddies while team recovers.

[Ceejer]

Enjoy Ill/Dark pairing so much I have 2 of them at 50 and 47 on Everlasting and Excelsior. 

 

My 50 build has Spirit Ward/Arcane Bolt/Rune of Protection. Then Hover/Fly/Evasive Maneuvers.

 

The Arcane Bolt is slotted for kb2kd and +rech. The Evasive Maneuvers makes it so the toon can just hover while the pets fight it out. Great for when you have to afk suddenly. The Hover works when teleporting into mobs while invisible. Then the pets come down to the controller. 

 

If you really want an Offender, Fire Blast/Empathy Defender. IO'ed out to the 9's. It's a self healing Tank with Damage, Damage and more Damage. Doesn't fully bloom till late game. 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Ceejer
Fire/Emp Def

[Socks10]

The one thing this thread has done is made me want to make more and more alts...and I already have so many. 🙂

 

I have a Ill/Cold at 37 and an Ill/Rad at 22. Neither really stuck for me when I initially played them, so I haven't touched them in a while. I've been playing /Dark on a Fire/Dark Controller recently, so I can see the benefits. Hmm...

 

Well, I didn't make the Ill/Dark, but I did make a Cold/Dark Defender. This character has no heals, rez, and I haven't taken TP either. I typically lean towards cold or ice powers when making characters, so I had to give this a try and really like it so far. I was on some missions and it was a bit difficult not to have a heal, but nobody went down. Also, I like being able to contribute damage-wise. It was a decision between Dark and Water for this character and I chose Dark mainly because of the snipe. I'm looking forward to playing him again.

 

Although, let's see if I don't make an Emp/Fire or Ill/Dark while I'm working today...

Edited January 28, 2022 by Socks10
Added details on a new character.