ITF is great, and possibly one of the best designs in MMO history

[Ukase]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

I think I'll totally misstate what Ukase said because, well, I can. 

Fixed that for you.  ITF isn't fun for ME. You can go nuts on it if you like, I will avoid it unless it's the weekly. 

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Fixed that for you.  ITF isn't fun for ME. You can go nuts on it if you like, I will avoid it unless it's the weekly. 

 

 

I think that's fair. Would you mind explaining what it s about the ITF you don't like? Are there other Task Forces that are different from it that you do like?

[SeraphimKensai]

I've decided that with all the love for the ITF, @Ukaseexcluded, I shall be running several themed ITFs this evening on Everlasting starting approximately at 6:15pm Eastern. Themes tonight will be (this list is not necessarily exclusive):

• Elemental. Let's get together and summon Captain Planet.
• The Future. Love Robots, Quantum Computers, and AI here we come.
• The American. Bring guns and other weapons.
• We got Aliens too. All Kheldian.

For the sake of brevity since we all have other stuff to do as well, they will be ran as casual speedy ITFs. Definitely not kill all's or even most, and just out there to shoot the shit, and by shit I mean nazis, aliens, mythological creatures, and roman traitors.

[Cancrusher]

9 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

 

One tip for first time runners.  In all my times running these not once have I seen either of them run as a "kill most."  They're always run as objectives only... (i.e. speed run).  But don't let this bother you.  It makes running them around 15-25 minutes each.  This is about right in this game, IMHO.  Plus, the objects are clearly identified for you and you can just follow a teammate who appears to know where to go.  They mainly consist of AV fights where you can (and do) skip any enemies between the AVs, and even grouped with the AVs.

 

That's a good tip- thanks, Shred Monkey.  Honestly, it's a bit of why I've been gun-shy about joining high-lvl TF/SF missions.  I realize most people running these have a system down and I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in the fun by asking for a spot when I have no idea what to do.  

With regarding to us airing our likes and dislikes for various game content, and in the event that any ofmy  statements in this arena might cause offense, try to soothe yourself with this one, reassuring fact:   "My opinions are equally as crappy and subjective as your own."  😁 🤷‍♂️

[DoctorDitko]

I truly enjoy the ITF (And on Torch have advertised the "World's slowest ITF" which filled immediately).

But it is lacking in one crucial, dramatic beat:

 

I wanna fight the giant Nazi Robots!

 

Gimme my giant Nazi robots, dammit!

(please?)

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I think that's fair. Would you mind explaining what it s about the ITF you don't like? Are there other Task Forces that are different from it that you do like?

I initially did - but I figured it would derail the thread. I had quite a bit and opted to delete it. No sense bringing folks down TOO much with my distaste for the ITF. 

I completely get that I'm probably one of maybe 5 people that play this game that would rather log off than do ITF. 

Here's a few of my knocks against it: 

I use lfg to get there for a pug. 
Typically, at least one person has no idea how to get there. Then, when they're told, they haven't got it unlocked. I completely get that the unlock is super easy now, once you know how. And it was always super easy before the midnighter badge in the mansion. The arc from Montague is fairly simple. But every damn character had to unlock it back in the day. If I see Percy again, it will be too soon. So, right off the bat, for a pug ITF anyway - there's always several minutes wasted. I thought the older I got, the more patient I would get, but it seems like it's the reverse for me. I hate to wait. I simply see no reason for this to require an "unlock" in any way. 

Secondly, I play with sound on. When solo, I'll have a podcast playing in the background, usually. But, even then, I have to turn that off and the game sound up to hear glowies. So, I'm used to playing with the game sound on. It also helps me to monitor chat for any tells - that tiny little ping is useful to me. 
And when I do ITF - those stupid Cims are always screaming. They couldn't have made them actually use words, (which would also get tiresome after  a couple hundred runs through it) but the screaming is just annoying. 

Thirdly, it has a cut scene. After a while, I get tired of sucking the helium out of balloons trying to do voice-overs on Discord. It's old, and tired. And completely unnecessary. I wish it would only be visible once, or once per character..but no. Every time...there it is. 

Fourth, I'm never quite clear why all the girls in Cim are named Sybil. I thought Sybil was one girl with a dozen personalities, not a bunch of girls who all look and dress alike. I'm also not clear why the girl won't let me in without a key - but she'll let in all those cim traitors? Doesn't make sense to me. 

Fifth, Sister Solaris is slow. I get that magic can't be rushed, but I guess she's from the South and just talks too damn slow. 

Sixth, when you're new to it - you can be on a speed run - and die from the cyst exploding when you destroy it if you're not at full health. Fine once you learn this - but I'm still pissed off from learning it the hard way over a dozen years ago. Heck, this can happen just from zipping to the next cyst while someone is tackling one as you pass it. I get why it happens, I just would prefer it not happen to me. I hate to re-toggle. 

Seventh, 5 generals? Makes sense. Defeat the leaders and the army will lose discipline. So why in the blue hell isn't Requiem labeled as a general? It's just stupid. And it made me feel stupid. We had to clear almost the entire map before we figured that out when it came out. Like over 2 hours for the whole TF back in the day. The merit rewards were and remain insufficient if you kill most/all. Barely passable on a 10 minute speed run. 

Further, on the last mission, it's not clear which AV Nictus is which if you lose target mid-fight. All those AV Nictus look alike to me. They should be labeled differently. Wait...is it Nicti? I dunno. 


Lastly, and this is a minor issue, but I remember vividly when it first came out. I was literally on my ill/rad controller called Imperious Rex. Yes, that's right, I had the character name, lawfully stolen from the profane utterings of Namor, the Sub-Mariner from Marvel Comics long before ITF became a reality. It certainly pissed me off. The Paragon Devs stole my name for that KB fool, Imperious in the TF. Worse, they made him stupid. So, to be fair, it had a knock against it before it started. That was back when my global was @Ukase Rex. Here on HC, I opted to drop the Rex. And I've let them keep Imperious, even though I stole the name first. 


My favorite TF is Apex, and really, the only fun part is dodge ball with the blue patches. That's the only reason it's my favorite. Stick and move. Other than the Magisterium and to a degree, fighting Protean and Nosferatu, these are the more enjoyable mechanics in the game for me. The timing of attacks is a lot of fun to me. No long animations until after the patch, the crackle, the smite from Nosferatu, that red absorbing patch from Protean, that Will of the Earth swirl from Underground, the hug for the blue patch, avoidance for the red patch in Mother Mayhem iTrial...that's the kind of thing I enjoy. 

ITF has nothing but stand here and mash buttons. It's mindless. If that's what you like, or are in the mood for, that's great, but you just stand there and mash buttons. There's no thinking required once you've done it a few times. Boring, boring, boring. No need to run, no need to hide, no need to be careful. With a team of any competence, it's all but impossible to be defeated. (except for running by a Cyst when a teammate is killing it before you notice it as you run by) 
 

Now I feel badly for pointing all these things out - because invariably someone will try to argue why these things I don't enjoy - they love. That's really good. I'm glad for them. But ITF is really just a snoozefest for me. If I run it again...it'll be too soon. Only for the weekly notice. Certainly not for the merits. Maybe for someone else to use the helium for the voice-over during the cut-scene. Yeah, maybe that. But that's about the only reason. 

It needs something special in it to make it fun, and there's really nothing in it that does it for me. 

[oedipus_tex]

28 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Fourth, I'm never quite clear why all the girls in Cim are named Sybil. I thought Sybil was one girl with a dozen personalities, not a bunch of girls who all look and dress alike. I'm also not clear why the girl won't let me in without a key - but she'll let in all those cim traitors? Doesn't make sense to me. 

 

 

Thanks for sharing. 🙂

 

This quote from Wikipedia may help you with the "Sybil" bit:

 

 

Quote

 

The sibyls (αἱ Σῐ́βυλλαι, singular Σῐ́βυλλᾰ) were prophetesses or oracles in Ancient Greece.[1][2] The sibyls prophesied at holy sites.[3] At first, there appears to have been only a single Sibyl. By the fourth century BC, there appear to have been at least three, Phrygian, Erythraean, and Hellespontine. By the first century BC, there were at least ten sibyls, located in Greece, Italy, the Levant, and Asia Minor.

 

In Medieval Latin, sibylla became simply the term for "prophetess", and it became common in Late Gothic and Renaissance art to depict female Sibyllae alongside male prophets. [26]

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I've decided that with all the love for the ITF, @Ukaseexcluded, I shall be running several themed ITFs this evening on Everlasting starting approximately at 6:15pm Eastern. Themes tonight will be (this list is not necessarily exclusive):

• Elemental. Let's get together and summon Captain Planet.
• The Future. Love Robots, Quantum Computers, and AI here we come.
• The American. Bring guns and other weapons.
• We got Aliens too. All Kheldian.

For the sake of brevity since we all have other stuff to do as well, they will be ran as casual speedy ITFs. Definitely not kill all's or even most, and just out there to shoot the shit, and by shit I mean nazis, aliens, mythological creatures, and roman traitors.

Ran all 4 of these tonight, with the slight modification to the 4th one, opened it up for any AT/powerset as long as the character theme was an alien.

[oedipus_tex]

 

12 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Ran all 4 of these tonight, with the slight modification to the 4th one, opened it up for any AT/powerset as long as the character theme was an alien.

 

 

Sounds like fun. I really want to try an all-Electric Blast and Control ITF sometime. With the updates to Electric Blast I bet its hilarious.

[SeraphimKensai]

13 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

 

Sounds like fun. I really want to try an all-Electric Blast and Control ITF sometime. With the updates to Electric Blast I bet its hilarious.

I do a lot of themed runs of all sorts of TFs. I've done an all electric it'd before and it's very fun. Tonight on the Future ITF, I ran a robot Electric/Psi Dominator, and I had pretty much everything sapped. If we had an Elec blast toon with us they would of seen an awful lot of Shocked mechanic usage in play.

[UltraAlt]

12 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

Gimme my giant Nazi robots, dammit!

(please?)

 

that's  in Boomtown, isn't it?

... i think the zone starts with a B....

[Doomguide2005]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

that's  in Boomtown, isn't it?

... i think the zone starts with a B....

     Well they're building one in Striga.  You can get involved in an AV battle on the scaffolding surrounding the giant robot (Mega Mech) in the Ernesto Hess TF.  Similar constructs can be found in the ITF, which I believe is what @DoctorDitkois referring to.  

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Well they're building one in Striga.  You can get involved in an AV battle on the scaffolding surrounding the giant robot (Mega Mech) in the Ernesto Hess TF.  Similar constructs can be found in the ITF, which I believe is what @DoctorDitkois referring to.  

 

Yes. You are correct.

However, there IS a giant Council Robot to fight in Boomtown - https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/War_Machine and the good Doctor seemed to be wanting to fight a giant Council Robot!

[Doomguide2005]

35 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Yes. You are correct.

However, there IS a giant Council Robot to fight in Boomtown - https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/War_Machine and the good Doctor seemed to be wanting to fight a giant Council Robot!

New stuff!   Well at least for me.  Thanks

[KaizenSoze]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:41 PM, Ukase said:

I use lfg to get there for a pug. 
Typically, at least one person has no idea how to get there. Then, when they're told, they haven't got it unlocked. I completely get that the unlock is super easy now, once you know how. And it was always super easy before the midnighter badge in the mansion. The arc from Montague is fairly simple. But every damn character had to unlock it back in the day. If I see Percy again, it will be too soon. So, right off the bat, for a pug ITF anyway - there's always several minutes wasted. I thought the older I got, the more patient I would get, but it seems like it's the reverse for me. I hate to wait. I simply see no reason for this to require an "unlock" in any way.

On this point I agree.

 

I have had to become one of those players. Who calls out in LFG to come to Cimerora. Then ask for an invite in broadcast. My policy has become to ignore invite tells unless I see them in zone. I don't like it, but enough players are not being considerate of other people's time.

 

Every time I don't follow this policy. At least on player won't have the badge and doesn't know or remember what to do. Or even worse, is sure they know what to do.

 

In the past I have exited the zone and walked the player through the process. But 3 out of the last 5 times, I would offer to help, the player would state they knew what to do. Then waste ten minutes plus of the team's time fumbling around.

 

There really needs to be a portal directly to Cimerora. I know the arguments about it being in the past, but Oroboros has a special portal and it's at the end of time. Just add a portal to the echo portal in Oroboros.

 

Otherwise, I love the ITF.

[momentarygrace]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

There really needs to be a portal directly to Cimerora. I know the arguments about it being in the past, but Oroboros has a special portal and it's at the end of time. Just add a portal to the echo portal in Oroboros.

 

Otherwise, I love the ITF.

 

How about one alternate entrance, make it a crystal IN Oroboros, park it in the back with the entrances to echo zones. Seems easy and not game breaking...

[A Cat]

1 hour ago, momentarygrace said:

 

How about one alternate entrance, make it a crystal IN Oroboros, park it in the back with the entrances to echo zones. Seems easy and not game breaking...

Lore wise the Midnighters are doing unauthorized bootleg mending in Cim. It would be extra work, but they can make a short Ouro arc for going to Cimerora to investigate the unauthorized time meddling. It would have some alternate dialogue options if you already got the Midnighter badge where you pokerface through. 

[SeraphimKensai]

3 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

On this point I agree.

 

I have had to become one of those players. Who calls out in LFG to come to Cimerora. Then ask for an invite in broadcast. My policy has become to ignore invite tells unless I see them in zone. I don't like it, but enough players are not being considerate of other people's time.

 

Every time I don't follow this policy. At least on player won't have the badge and doesn't know or remember what to do. Or even worse, is sure they know what to do.

 

In the past I have exited the zone and walked the player through the process. But 3 out of the last 5 times, I would offer to help, the player would state they knew what to do. Then waste ten minutes plus of the team's time fumbling around.

I am honestly right there with you.

[cranebump]

Tbh, I don't much care for ITF, either. However, I do not think it's a bad design. It's a good design. One of the best ever in the history of MMOs? Hmmm...surely there are better things than this somewhere? Feel like you could take some of the mission arcs already in the game, expand them into TFs, and they'd be just as good, if not better than ITF (Bane Spider Ruben, for one; or Laura Lockhart).

[carroto]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:06 PM, MTeague said:

I would vastly prefer the ITF if it was lvls 35-44.

But that's largely my own strong bias against Incarnates.

 

It would help with the people who form "50+ only" ITFs.  I'm always disappointed to see that.  The ITF is one of the best ways to level after hitting 35 but it's usually best if a 50 forms it because people want access to all their powers.  So I'm reliant on others to form them, but when they exclude levelers it's sad to see.

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, carroto said:

 

It would help with the people who form "50+ only" ITFs.  I'm always disappointed to see that.  The ITF is one of the best ways to level after hitting 35 but it's usually best if a 50 forms it because people want access to all their powers.  So I'm reliant on others to form them, but when they exclude levelers it's sad to see.

This ...guess I'll call it "Level discrimination" does have a reason behind it. And, depending on the player, not saying it's a good reason. At 50, of course, you have incarnate powers - so those are damned handy. But I think more than that, the folks that are forming and asking for 50+ are wanting to do "speedy". 

To me, speed TF/SFs have two categories: There's "as fast as we can go without killing ourselves", and there's "let's respec our powers specifically for getting through this and set a record."

I'd say 90% of speeders are in the former, maybe 5% are in the latter, and 5% only think they're in the former, but are short in either knowledge, skill and/or abilities. I understand these folks who "level discriminate", but at the same time, if they're open to the concept of teaming in the first place - which recruiting suggests they are, they should realize that given the length of destiny durations, it's a bit overkill and not really going to save you that much more time. If a level 40 @STiTcH existed with enhancements outside of a farm, I'd take him over most 50+ players. 
You can wait another minute for that 50+ or just proceed with the level 40 that's right there, ready to go. Seems like a wash, to me. But, I leave open the notion that they may know something I don't. 
 

[Crysis]

I've probably run ITF several hundred times now.  It never gets old.  I'm not even all that interested in the story at this point, although Cim is actually one of the few areas I've taken the time to fully understand the story and lore.  Love some of the other Cim arcs (the KRAKEN!) and how parts of them weave their way into ITF as well.

 

But honestly, it never gets old.  It is hands down my favorite MMO arc/mission I've ever played.  It's also great for leveling in the 45-50 range.  Easy to get at least two levels at 54/x8 even fully teamed as long as its a Kill Most team.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, carroto said:

but when they exclude levelers it's sad to see.

A lot of the time when I see this, they're also flogging the run as set to +4/x8 to maximize their reward, and they feel that having team members fighting +5 mobs on top of the EB/AV advantages would slow them down too much.

[KaizenSoze]

2 hours ago, carroto said:

 

It would help with the people who form "50+ only" ITFs.  I'm always disappointed to see that.  The ITF is one of the best ways to level after hitting 35 but it's usually best if a 50 forms it because people want access to all their powers.  So I'm reliant on others to form them, but when they exclude levelers it's sad to see.

I'll let anyone join. If there are not enough 50+, I'll turn the diff down to 3x8.

 

Nobody has complained. I enjoy the missions and the constant frantic combat.