Why does every TF have to be a +0 snooze fest?

[Ukase]

8 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Well, we know who is ruining the fun.

Level 50's that most likely were power-leveled to 50.

And this is a level 50's attitude toward other players that they don't know.

For brevity's sake (and because I don't know how to hide most of a given comment), I've just selected these few lines. 
If anyone takes the time to read your post, they may come away with something different. But, what I got out of this was a lot of generalization. 

When I stated "When you PUG, you have very little idea as to how capable or not your team is." 

I say that when I'm at level 20 or 50. You just never know what you're gonna get. It's not a level 50 talking down on some sub-50. It's me as a player recognizing that I don't know everyone on a given pug. I've no idea if they can handle +2, or +3 or +4. And that's really all you should read into it. 

And for the record, I play far more content sub-50 than I do at level 50. So, I certainly understand the disdain towards players who don't seem to get that folks who aren't 50 want XP.  Heck, a lot of 50's want incarnate xp. I alway want XP, at least until I hit vet level 99. But even so - my point is that you can get more xp doing things fast than you can doing them slow. Complete more missions, more xp, more badges, in less time. That's just my way, although if I'm teamed with someone who wanted a kill-most, or kill-through, I'm game or I wouldn't be on the team. 

 

[Ukase]

15 hours ago, FungalGrowth said:

 

Exactly.  When I  join one of those watered-down TF's I feel like I have wasted my time.  At the cost of a few minutes, I could have got way more XP and had way more fun.  That's why I lead my own runs so often and often avoid joining when others run the the ones I need.  If only leading my own runs would consistently allow me to run the difficulty I want to run <sigh>.   

Newsflash! Leading your own runs DOES consistently allow you to run the difficulty you want. 
You claim other folks entering a mission before you alters the levels of the npcs. This was supposedly addressed, and anecdotally, I've not had this problem. I would assume these to be few and far between anyway if you're communicating to your team ahead of time that you should be the first to enter and share why. If they take issue, look for a replacement. 

[ForeverLaxx]

16 hours ago, FungalGrowth said:

At the cost of a few minutes, I could have got way more XP and had way more fun.  That's why I lead my own runs so often and often avoid joining when others run the the ones I need.  If only leading my own runs would consistently allow me to run the difficulty I want to run <sigh>.   

Inform them not to enter the mission before you, then. If they keep doing it, kick them from the TF and go about your business. It's your TF so run it how you want.

 

With that out of the way, you get less exp running higher difficulties than if you just run a lower difficulty multiple times. In the time it takes you to run a +4, I could run three or four +0s and walk out at the end with more total exp and influence than you. Frankly, I find this to be a design flaw but one that isn't terribly important in the grand scheme since influence is easy to get anyway and you can turn off exp if you think you're leveling too quickly.

 

In any event, those "+4" runs aren't even really that difficult when you're designed for it. It mostly just makes things more tedious than anything else and players generally aren't interested in enforced tedium for the sake of a badge and merits.

[FungalGrowth]

12 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

 

As far as I know, they fixed that.

What task force have you been on lately where that was happening?

 

Well, Posi 1, Posi 2, Synapse, Citadel, Manticore, Numina.  Pretty much every TF where the missions are not all in the same zone.

[Appolaris]

22 minutes ago, FungalGrowth said:

 

Well, Posi 1, Posi 2, Synapse, Citadel, Manticore, Numina.  Pretty much every TF where the missions are not all in the same zone.

 

 

Ice Mistral SF as well.  I've personally seen it with the Manticore TF and Ice Mistral SF.

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

When I stated "When you PUG, you have very little idea as to how capable or not your team is." 

I say that when I'm at level 20 or 50. You just never know what you're gonna get. It's not a level 50 talking down on some sub-50. It's me as a player recognizing that I don't know everyone on a given pug. I've no idea if they can handle +2, or +3 or +4. And that's really all you should read into it. 

 

Yep. That is what you said.

And I already made my reply to that.

 

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

And for the record, I play far more content sub-50 than I do at level 50.

 

With a character that is below level 50 or a character that is level 50?

 

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, I certainly understand the disdain towards players who don't seem to get that folks who aren't 50 want XP.

 

Thanks for agreeing with the OP and myself.

 

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

my point is that you can get more xp doing things fast than you can doing them slow.

 

That is not always true, and I think you know that.

In fact, that is the OP's point that they aren't getting the XP that they would like because people are setting missions low and stealthing so that they can rush through things.

So your point isn't correct in the situation relevant to the OP's thread starting post.

 

 

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, FungalGrowth said:

 

Well, Posi 1, Posi 2, Synapse, Citadel, Manticore, Numina.  Pretty much every TF where the missions are not all in the same zone.

 

I haven't had that problem on Posi 1, Posi 2 or Citadel recently as far as I can recall, or maybe I was just lucky.

[SuggestorK]

On 7/11/2022 at 8:41 AM, FungalGrowth said:

Try reading the post.  As I said in the original post, I do that.  A LOT.  But often even then I can't get the difficulty I want to because of the stupid difficulty bug. 

That may be a server issue.. on Reunion we mostly respect the leader has too zone in 1st rule unless before we enter a mission , unless its a +0 anyway, especially when he asks for us to wit for him.

[SeraphimKensai]

The solution is to have rewards scale with difficulty. If some of us have endless supplies of influence already, then doing a tf that nets 20 reward merits at +0 or -1, that takes say 20 minutes to complete vs a +4 version which nets 20 merits that takes 1 hour to complete it seems like a waste of time unless the player is specifically trying various challenges.

 

So perhaps having reward merits or recipe drop rates scale higher the more difficult the setting would be cause for consideration for some of us efficiency experts.

[Ukase]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

That is not always true, and I think you know that.

In fact, that is the OP's point that they aren't getting the XP that they would like because people are setting missions low and stealthing so that they can rush through things.

So your point isn't correct in the situation relevant to the OP's thread starting post.

I never stated that there was a "right" way, only that my way gets me more xp faster. It won't work for everyone because not everyone can afford to kit out their character in the early levels like I can. I was only explaining the various reasons why. 

And to answer your question about playing the sub-50 content, it's as a sub-50. The last 20 characters I've gotten to 50+3/t-4 were all leveled up from 1 to done without PL, unless you count a couple of MSRs in the 35-50 range as a PL. Some of them without the 2xp buff because they were challenge characters earning their way through without the use of p2w or the AH. 

A couple of years ago, a lot of the questions folks would ask about efficiency in farming. Would they get more inf/more xp by tackling +4 or +2, or something else? The answer is the trite but true "it depends". Some builds can clobber the +4 faster, so it may be worth their time to tackle them at that level for optimal XP/Inf per unit of time. 

It's the same with non-farm content. But when you take into account the story arc completion bonus, and set the diff to +4 after the arc is done, but before you close out the contact, you still get the xp bonus as if you did the entire arc at +4. 

 

I find it strange that people think the +4 game gives more XP. And it does. But does it give more XP per unit of time? That answer isn't always no. Nor is it always yes. It depends on team composition. Or if you're solo, your build and what type of resistance/defense the npc has. Since I solo more often than not, I build my characters more for order than for chaos. (that means defense/resistance focused, rather than dps focused) As such, it takes me longer to clobber a +4 boss vs a +0 boss, naturally. And it takes a measure of time longer that it's just not worth the extra xp/inf that the +4 provides. But - that's me. You and others may have different perceptions and experiences, and that's fine. 

I just consider it bad form to lump every level 50 character in a negative light just because they do things differently. 

[Seed22]

23 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Well, we know who is ruining the fun.

Level 50's that most likely were power-leveled to 50.

They only run tasks forces for the merits. That is why they are bulldozing/speedrunning through them.

 

Some people do recruit for XP task force runs.

You might even ask before you join if it will be an XP run or not.

The lower the number of the people on the team, the more likely you are to hopefully get the leader to agree for it to be a leveling/XP team versus speed run.

Once group gets going, make sure to bring it up. Especially if someone starts stealthing stuff.

 

Best bet is always to recruit for your own task forces and say upfront in the LFG channel that you are recruiting for an XP taskforce. 

Now you have the star.

The team fills.

Someone says, "Give the start to a level 50". DON"T DO IT!

You to took the time to recruit. You are the leader. Don't bow down to intimidation. It's your team.

Make it clear once everyone is there that you are running an XP task force and it is NOT as speed run.

So when some 50 starts to stealth stuff, you can give them a warning if you want ... or you can just boot them ... you already did warn them. Some 50's simply don't think anyone has the courage to boot them. I suggest not only booting them, but putting them on /ignore. YOu won't have to hear their whining and the next time they send you tells to join your XP task force, you won't get their tells. Which means you can fill your team with players that aren't planning on trying to ruin your task force.

 

And I'll tell you the obvious secret that is no secret.

Almost everyone is looking to join a team.

Almost everyone is scared to lead a team.

So how does that factor? Recruit and people will join because the do want to team up.

Sure there are slow times, but, seriously, don't be afraid of the start.

If you want to be on a team and there isn't one, then start recruiting, 

 

 

It is rare that I'm on a task force that is set at zero, if someone asks, I always say +2.

Most tasks forces tha I join and recruit for run on +2.

I don't run level 50 content.

If the team can't take +2, I usually turn it down. I tend to put the last mission on 0 because I tend to get newer players on my teams and the last mission is a task force is the most difficult.

 

 

As far as I know, they fixed that.

What task force have you been on lately where that was happening?

 

 

So here is my point about level 50's proven.

They are only in the task forces for the merits because they are level 50.

 

Honestly, many of them could care less that you are trying to level up. They are 50, and it seems quite often that means that they think they are better than you and your sub level 50 character .... even if they were powerlevel-ed to 50.

 

This is really a huge problem. There is a fairly sizable amount of the community that only plays the end-game (the actual game that goes from level 1-49 and the end-game that is played by those that are level 50) and only slums game-content to get merit rewards.

 

There are still a good number of us that like playing the game or, as level 50 end-gamers might want to call it, the "leveling" content.

To me, the leveling and building characters is the most fun.

Honestly, when it gets up to the high 30's and into the 40s the game isn't much fun to me and I pretty much hate end-game content. End-game content isn't enjoyable to me on multiple levels.

 

So what it really comes down to is if you want to enjoy the non-endgame content then do your best to avoid level 50's.

Either they want to take control of your team or they want to prove how cool they are in one way or another. They might just run off in a mission and kill stuff on their own to prove that they are better than the rest of the team. I mean if they are examplared down they still have powers that are levels higher than the content they are in.

 

 

And this is a level 50's attitude toward other players that they don't know.

 

Most PUGs that I have been on are very competent.

It may take time for the team to gel, but, once they figure out how to work with each other, things start moving very smoothly.

 

Honestly, the whiners on task forces are usually the 50's that were dropped down to a lower level than they wanted to be because I wouldn't give them the star. They are the ones that can't deal with the content and not the lower level players on the team.

 

The problem that most 50 are used to soloing with a bunch of people that are soloing and they just happen to be on a team together.

 

The lower level content and characters works much better when players on a team actually team-up and work with one another.

 

 

I'm not sure what setting you are trying for, but I generally don't have problems having successful PUGS at +2.

 

 

Don't fear the star.

Don't give up the star if you have spend time recruiting for YOUR team.

IF the 50 doesn't like it, they can take a hike.

Here's content that ALSO will force 50's to work together that no one seems bold enough to do:

 

*Ahem*

 

Aeon Relentless SF

Oh, and DO give the star to a 50 on Phalanx related TFs, or someone above the TF max level; here's why, they are SIGNATURE TF's, meaning enemies will  be at that TF's max level regardless. You're a level 30 trying to lead a Manti? Congrats, you and your team are now fighting +5's.  Guess you got your challenge at least :shrug:

 

Also, remember redside( best side) exist, so SF's can offer a good challenge for folks not familiar with the territory, and as far as I'm aware, none(?) of them are signature, and thusly level-locked. One even gives a Notice of the Well for first-timers!

But I'm dead serious; if endgame is boring, there is LITERALLY a hard-mode SF that WILL put you on your ass and keep you on your toes. May spice things up for ya!

 

EDIT: Oh, and stop blaming farmers for all your problems. PL'ed 50's aren't the only ones who want merits. I've wanted to clear on my PL'ed 50s and a leveling toon wanted to speed. Comes across as just...blaming a group of people for self-indulged issues.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Seed22

[Snarky]

Most TFs are done for merits/badges.  Half of PUG teams are under powered, under enhanced, or people trying new things (not optimal) 

 

There are plenty of ads for +4 or you could start your own

[ShardWarrior]

On 7/11/2022 at 2:41 AM, FungalGrowth said:

Try reading the post.  As I said in the original post, I do that.  A LOT.  But often even then I can't get the difficulty I want to because of the stupid difficulty bug. 

 

I did read your post and everything there is self inflicted.  You can politely ask people to wait for you to get into a zone before entering the mission.  Not at all difficult to communicate with those on the team.  Just set the ground rules before you start and make sure everyone on the team is ok with them.

Edited July 12, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[Snarky]

10 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

I did read your post and everything there is self inflicted.  You can politely ask people to wait for you to get into a zone before entering the mission.  Not at difficult to communicate with those on the team.  Just set the ground rules before you start and make sure everyone on the team is ok with them.

And this “not reading/following instructions” thing is why a lot of people who PUG just want to run +0.  Just get it done, badge/merits

[Hyperstrike]

There's nothing wrong with doing +0.
Not everyone is equipped for high level slog.
Not everyone wants to.
And yes, a portion of the player base do it for "mercenary" reasons (XP, Merits, etc).

Don't like that?
Simply run your own TFs.
Afraid of a level bug?
Pimpin' ain't easy!

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Most TFs are done for merits/badges.  Half of PUG teams are under powered, under enhanced, or people trying new things (not optimal) 

 

There are plenty of ads for +4 or you could start your own

 

I accidentally forgot when doing a DFB on my latest tank (who was in his 40s at that point, but somehow I had never gotten the badges from DFB on him) to set the level down and we did DFB at +2. Nobody seemed to notice and deaths were no more plentiful than usual. 

 

More intentionally, the last Posi 1 I recruited people for was at +1.

[Erratic1]

7 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Don't like that?
Simply run your own TFs.

 

Most importantly, advertise the type of TF you are running. Nothing wrong with saying, "+X, kill all". People will join for just about anything sane (i.e. not +4 Synapse).

[UltraAlt]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

I never stated that there was a "right" way, only that my way gets me more xp faster.

 

I understand it is a personal comment about your experience which greatly differs from mine.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I'm so lost. Just solo or dual box 'em if you have to. Then it's always at whatever diff you want it to be.

 

Edit: Hell, no, I don't go above base diff when I'm soloin 'em. Hopkins, Crey, Hopkins is a freakin slog at +0. Can't imagine what a PitA it'd be at +4.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[FungalGrowth]

On 7/11/2022 at 11:43 PM, UltraAlt said:

 

I haven't had that problem on Posi 1, Posi 2 or Citadel recently as far as I can recall, or maybe I was just lucky.

 

Happened again last night on Posi 2.  I was not leader but the leader was trying to run +1 and that worked on the first mission but not on the 2nd.  When I pointed it out to the team most of them said they thought it was fixed but when the leader confirmed he had it set to +1 and we were obviously fighting +0 enemies, it was totally obvious that it has NOT been fixed.

 

 

[FungalGrowth]

On 7/13/2022 at 7:01 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

I'm so lost. Just solo or dual box 'em if you have to. Then it's always at whatever diff you want it to be.

 

Edit: Hell, no, I don't go above base diff when I'm soloin 'em. Hopkins, Crey, Hopkins is a freakin slog at +0. Can't imagine what a PitA it'd be at +4.

 

That's hardly the point.  To get the same XP I would get from running it with an 8-man team at +1 or +2, I would have to spend several days soloing it over and over.  Where is the fun in that?  The game is MADE for grouping.    

[Bill Z Bubba]

33 minutes ago, FungalGrowth said:

That's hardly the point.  To get the same XP I would get from running it with an 8-man team at +1 or +2, I would have to spend several days soloing it over and over.  Where is the fun in that?  The game is MADE for grouping.    

 

Several days? Wut? Found some screenies of my nrg/sr brute, she soloed Numina in 1:10 with zero defeats. Manti in 1:30, zero defeats. Synapse 1:30, zero defeats. Yin 1:08 with 3 defeats but you can also take as long as you want, go on break whenever you want, go as fast or as slow as you please. Edit: Obviously, I zerged the hell out of these at base diff.

 

Also, as an example, if a TF gives 100k xp, a soloist gets the full 100k. Each member on a team of 8 only gets 100k*2.5/8 = 31250 but you also have to deal with waiting for folks to join, people dropping, other people, and I've seen full teams stumble along to bad times.

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[FungalGrowth]

Let's see your Synapse time on a grav controller.  Sure, if I were to only run my best solo AT's I could probably solo those TF's in decent times.  Wouldn't be much fun and wouldn't do anything for my characters that are built for support.   

 

Edit:  And before you tell me to 2-box it, I'm not wanting a farm.  I want to actually play my characters.  Not PL them while they sit idle.  For support characters that pretty much means I need teammates. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by FungalGrowth

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, FungalGrowth said:

Let's see your Synapse time on a grav controller.  Sure, if I were to only run my best solo AT's I could probably solo those TF's in decent times.  Wouldn't be much fun and wouldn't do anything for my characters that are built for support.   

 

Edit:  And before you tell me to 2-box it, I'm not wanting a farm.  I want to actually play my characters.  Not PL them while they sit idle.  For support characters that pretty much means I need teammates. 

 

Yup, it's almost like it's a completely unfair game design. Go melee, get everything you need easily solo, go squishy and be squishy. I have a lot of squishies. It's probably not coincidental that very few if any have all 4 passive accolades.

 

Then again, maybe it is ok design. The squishies team more, don't need the accolades, and nothing in this game is as impressive to me as a full murderball of corruptors.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Erratic1]

25 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Yup, it's almost like it's a completely unfair game design. Go melee, get everything you need easily solo, go squishy and be squishy. I have a lot of squishies. It's probably not coincidental that very few if any have all 4 passive accolades.

 

Then again, maybe it is ok design. The squishies team more, don't need the accolades, and nothing in this game is as impressive to me as a full murderball of corruptors.

 

Its not like Blasters, Corruptors, or Defenders (solo with their AT passive) solo horribly. And depending on  Controller....