issue 27 Focused Feedback: Sister Valeria Story Arc

[Cinnder]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:34 PM, Burnt Umber said:

• In the second mission, there are a bit too many elite bosses.  They didn't add challenge, and, as a poster above mentioned, they made that mission a bit of a slog.  The minotaurs and cyclopes could be their boss versions.

 

I haven't had a chance to test it myself, but this does concern me.  Now that these monsters have been upgraded to the Incarnate versions, it means the final mission in the original Cimeroran arc is already rather un-fun, and that's just at boss level.  I hope this new arc isn't even more unpleasant.  I've noticed a trend here on Homecoming where all the new content seems to be particularly difficult even at base level.  It would be nice if super-difficult were an option rather than the baseline.

[Burnt Umber]

31 minutes ago, Cinnder said:

 

I haven't had a chance to test it myself, but this does concern me.  Now that these monsters have been upgraded to the Incarnate versions, it means the final mission in the original Cimeroran arc is already rather un-fun, and that's just at boss level.  I hope this new arc isn't even more unpleasant.  I've noticed a trend here on Homecoming where all the new content seems to be particularly difficult even at base level.  It would be nice if super-difficult were an option rather than the baseline.

 

I sort of agree with you:  not to be too much of a downer, but I think the "Elite Boss" status mobs have become a bit too frequent with the recent homecoming content.  Here, I feel like what would have normally been bosses were bumped up to EBs in an attempt to generate challenge.  Instead, I feel like it creates more of a time sink while sort of watering down the significance of facing an EB (narratively, at least).  Changing the minotaurs and cyclopes to be their boss versions would, I think, alleviate most of the problem.

 

It's worth noting that the EBs in the mission cited don't get thrown en masse at you, so you can pull one or two from range to fight. Also, I've noticed that, if you turn off bosses/EBs in the difficulty settings, it downgrades the minotaurs and cyclopes in the original Cimeroran incarnate arc to lieutenants.  I think that might help to get rid of the more "un-fun" bits.  And, the story itself is pretty fun and solo-able overall.

[Cinnder]

Burnt Umber I think you have hit the nail on the head for me: I'm far more interested in good story with some challenge than in raid-like challenge in everything.

 

P.S. Also loved your point about the dilution of the significance of EBs.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Cinnder

[BurtHutt]

I haven't taken a run at this  but it's good to have repeatable content. I think it is tough to add materials and this is why I will always continue to push for my AE project to add regular content.

 

I have always wondered why ancient warriors are some of the toughest enemies in the game. It seems a bit off to me lol

 

Anyway, thanks Devs for all your hard work.

[Cinnder]

1 hour ago, BurtHutt said:

I have always wondered why ancient warriors are some of the toughest enemies in the game. It seems a bit off to me lol

 

Heh, good point!  Makes me think of Malta also -- in modern times the toughest enemies are just some regular humans with weapons?

[arthurh35353]

6 hours ago, Cinnder said:

 

Heh, good point!  Makes me think of Malta also -- in modern times the toughest enemies are just some regular humans with weapons?

Well, it's not like they are armed with specific anti-super-power weapons or anything... Oh, right.

[Cinnder]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it's not like they are armed with specific anti-super-power weapons or anything... Oh, right.

 

Aside from the sappers it's all just firearms and stun weapons.  Compared to aliens, wizards, animated earth creatures, etc you'd think they'd be second or third tier rather than first.

[arthurh35353]

15 hours ago, Cinnder said:

 

Aside from the sappers it's all just firearms and stun weapons.  Compared to aliens, wizards, animated earth creatures, etc you'd think they'd be second or third tier rather than first.

The Hercules, Zeus and Kronos titans are still there.

[Temporal]

Loved the design of the caverns and the general rocky aesthetic /rock placement rather than just open space. And that's saying something as my main is tall and doesn't like banging their head constantly on the ceiling 😁

 

I did have one thing to note:

 

On the final mission an NPC was able to evade my AOE... turns out the character was underneath me ([474.4 -107.1 3271.7]).

Since I was smaller than normal I was able to fit into the space and defeat the villain. Just letting you know in case you need to address any geometry/pathing issues there. Normally I wouldn't have been able to get into that space 🙂

 

Thank you for your efforts!

[The Caretaker]

10 hours ago, Temporal said:

Loved the design of the caverns and the general rocky aesthetic /rock placement rather than just open space. And that's saying something as my main is tall and doesn't like banging their head constantly on the ceiling 😁

 

I did have one thing to note:

 

On the final mission an NPC was able to evade my AOE... turns out the character was underneath me ([474.4 -107.1 3271.7]).

Since I was smaller than normal I was able to fit into the space and defeat the villain. Just letting you know in case you need to address any geometry/pathing issues there. Normally I wouldn't have been able to get into that space 🙂

 

Thank you for your efforts!

 

I'll look into this as time permits.

[gameboy1234]

Tried this just now (sorry for the late input), on a fully incarnated Night Widow with perma-Mind Link the difficulty is pretty much "lol."  I also habitually take Mask Presence and Smoke Grenade (mostly for role play reasons) and they make it trivial to walk up to a Surgeon and one-shot him before anyone knows what's going.  So far the writing and story are nice though.

 

More to follow, though I realize it's late in the test cycle...

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by gameboy1234

[Seed22]

On 7/30/2022 at 9:59 PM, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it's not like they are armed with specific anti-super-power weapons or anything... Oh, right.

And they're not the toughest. They're a joke with the audacity to think they aren't. Well, currently, maybe in the future they won't be 😛

[gameboy1234]

Let's see, my Widow could not solo the Cyclops and the Minotaurs in the second (I think) mish.  The Cyclops especially have too many hit points, and eventually they're going to get in a quick succession of attacks that effectively one-shots me.  I can by-pass them but I don't know how those fights were envisioned.

 

The rest of the missions went well, though Valeria with her long range attacks *really* likes to head off and engage groups at random.  I wonder if this AI can be tuned a bit, maybe given something like Mastermind's "Follow Defensive". 

 

Getting my toggles re-enabled during the "disguise" mission is a massive pain.  If you implement some sort of toggle suppression as requested, please exclude at least Sprint (and maybe the prestige movement powers) so we can at least move around at a decent speed.  Depending on the mission and avatar, optionally allowing the temp movement powers like Jetpacks might also be a good idea if someone is writing new code for this (what I mean is, you might want to write the code so that a level designer has the option to include, or exclude, some of those powers when using a "disguise" in a mission).

 

The PC behind Valeria that won't talk to me, Alexandra Sideris.  She supposed to after the first mission? I've done Valeria's whole arc and no go. I'm a villain if it matters, I didn't think the ancient Cimerorians cared about that though.

 

[gameboy1234]

Just did a comparison with the level 54 Cyclops outside of the traitors'/Romulus' fortress and they are much easier to solo.  The regular level 54 cyclops seem to have much fewer hit points, so they fall much faster.  And they don't double hit you for damage.  The single damage hits are much easier to deal with.  Most of the time I don't need to actually bother with any inspirations.  Those level 54 possessed cyclops in Valeria's mission were a big surprise. One double hit of smashing plus energy from the possessed cyclops is enough to take me out, or at least put me very close to death.  The possessed cyclops also seem to have a much higher change to hit, around 20% with all my defenses up, vs around 8% for a regular level 54 Cyclops.

 

Edit: basically the regular level 54 cyclops are an easy kill, vs the possessed ones which resulted in death every time, and usually very quickly.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by gameboy1234

[KaizenSoze]

I have run this arc on a few ATs, scrapper and standard Night Widows fared the worst at 4x8. Even fully kitted out.

 

I found that I must use all the solo tricks, LOS pulling, jousting, stringing them out and picking off strays.

 

Scrapper don't joust well, it's tedious, but doable. Standing in melee too long or pulling two groups usually ended badly.

 

Night Widows was doable, non Night Tank version, could joust better and pull better with smoke nade, but suffered badly in melee due to lower hit points. Those crits really hurt.

 

Night Tank version was fine, liberal use of smoke nade, and incredible durability allow her to duke it out in melee.

 

 Fortunata was fine, because of the good mix of range/melee/control. Still a couple of crits and it got dicey.

 

The most fun was my elec/ice/mace blaster. Slow, end drain, then move into melee to finish. Lots of jousting, LOS pulling, but still it was a fun challenge. 

 

TLDR. I loved the challenge, but can really wreck some toons due to high melee damage. I just had to turn it down, at least the team size if not the difficulty for my melee focused toons.

[Cinnder]

[Beta] Patch Notes for August 20th, 2022 - Issue 27: Second Chances, Page 4 (Release Candidate 2)

Incarnate Mission Content: Sister Valeria

• Three encounters in Mission 2's open cave area have been adjusted to be one Cimeroran Traitor elite boss, one Minotaur, and one Cyclops; Down from two Minoturs and two Cyclopes.

---------

 

Thank you!

 

 

[Voltor]

On 7/12/2022 at 7:46 PM, insome1 said:

Unable to start this contact. 

lv 50+3 (all t4s) incarns.

 

  Hide contents

 

Is there a contact introduction I need?

 

 

**UPDATE**  incase anyone needs it:

 

Okay, that was the issue. Have to speak with "Montague Castanella" in Steel Canyon University, first, have him send you to Cimerora. After that "arc" is complete, Sister Valeria is now a available contact.

 

 

**UPDATE 2** For troubleshooting

Fresh 50+ (t4 incarns slotted) toon created on beta. Gained entry to Cim thru House Hunter badge in Night Ward. No other Cim contact. 
 -Sister Valeria introduction correctly, mission offered.

 

Copied my main to beta, the alt has done all the arcs, red, blue and gold, yet I cannot unlock her.   Luckily her arc is in Ouro but still I should be able to unlock her.

[MsAligned]

Ran the arc at +4 with a full team, needs to have level 55/56 enemies, other wise, just to easy.

[thunderforce]

On 7/13/2022 at 11:52 AM, The Caretaker said:

Screw it, it should be discreet. Maybe. Yes.

Also "make it as a" - the "as" is spurious.

 

"On the onset of your work together, she tasked you with" - an "onset" is the very start of something unpleasant, like the "onset" of a disease. Even if later events in the arc were unpleasant, the word is not appropriate here. "First, she gave you the task of" would be less needlessly verbose, too, and avoid "tasked" which is a pretty ugly verb.

 

"raiding on the outskirts". "on" is spurious here; "on the outskirts" is an expression, but it's not right here. (Indeed, I don't much like "outskirts" by itself; suggest "Cimerora's outskirts".

 

"These former Romulus-allegiant soldiers" - ouch, that is clunky, and did their allegiance change or did they stop being soldiers?

 

"would take heavy wounds, and come back" - the comma is spurious.

 

"cavern, and aside" - suggest "cavern; aside".

 

Oddly we find "a map, a sybil, and a Shadow Crystal", but then we can take the fight to General Sideris (where'd he come from? IDK if this is a second mission, but either way, having his name pop up as if we already know who he is is not great) and the Sybil, who has gained a capital S. She should be capitalised consistently.

 

"Undeterred, after reporting back to Valeria, the map proved" - this says the map reported back and was undeterred. "Undeterred, after reporting back to Valera, you found the map was a more reliable path forward, although it seemed to make little sense."

 

"She sent you" - and again the phrasing means the map is doing it. "Valeria sent you".

 

"the Traitorous Cimerorans seemed eager to ally with" - missing full stop, and the capital T is spurious. "Cimeroran Traitors" can have a capital T since it's the name of an enemy group, but not this.

 

"discreetly dress you up" - what, did she give you individual changing rooms? Suggest "opted to disguise you as".

 

"Enlightenment, who exposed your lies" - I'd like to see this without the comma, and the nictus exposed our deception (which might include lies but definitely includes the disguises).

 

I'm afraid I haven't had a chance to play this so I'm just proofreading the chunk of the souvenir that got posted.

Edited August 23, 2022 by thunderforce
fix inevitable typo

[Cinnder]

OK I think I've figured out the problem with most new content in HC: it's the homing ambushes.  In the Vahz/Freaklok arcs it was exploding or stealth homing ambushes.  In Sister Valeria's arc it's the combined boss/monster ambushes.  These take away the player's initiative and inherently slant the content towards specific ATs that are good at absorbing damage.  Blaster, Stalkers, and ATs of that ilk are doomed if they're not teamed with a damage sponge.

 

I was running this arc with my fire blaster and rather enjoying the excellent writing, cool mish maps, and interesting new enemies until the ambushes began.

 

A homing EB Incarnate cyclops is just not fun at all. 

 

I would argue that ambushes of this level should be confined to TF-type content only.

 

---

 

All right, I finished the arc (after turning down the diff) and my conclusion,  based on the difficulty and the overabundance of high-level ambushes, is this: imo this is a TF, not a solo Incarnate arc, and it should be classified accordingly.  It's not even in the same class of difficulty as the DA and Prae Incarnate solo arcs.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Cinnder
More thoughts

[Hedgefund3]

I don't know if I should be posting this to beta since it's now live, but here we go.

 

This is an incarnate arc, I got the incarnate menu as the mission holder.  Unlike all the other incarnate arcs, no other teammates got a menu to select their choice of incarnate salvage, empyrean or inspirations.  I don't know if this is intended but it does differ from all of the other incarnate finales.

[Arnabas]

Is this a TF, or standard mission that can be played solo?

[The Caretaker]

4 hours ago, Hedgefund3 said:

I don't know if I should be posting this to beta since it's now live, but here we go.

 

This is an incarnate arc, I got the incarnate menu as the mission holder.  Unlike all the other incarnate arcs, no other teammates got a menu to select their choice of incarnate salvage, empyrean or inspirations.  I don't know if this is intended but it does differ from all of the other incarnate finales.

 

Error, and corrected in the pipe.