archetype suggestion Archetype Suggestion: The Duo

[malonkey1]

3 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

This Duo Archetype would be an excellent chance to play with some "Epic Powerset" options that tie directly into CoH's lore.

 

For Instance:

What if one of the Summon/Support sets was "Priesthood of Stheno"?

-Your Duo Summon could be a Snake partner!

-You could have Mastery over Venom.... so something Similar to the Mastermind Support set.

-Snakes would recognize you as an ally and you wouldn't get snake hunting missions, since you couldn't be trusted to very well follow through with any of it.

Well, I don't know about that third part, but having a partner pet that has the model and powers resembling the Snakes would be within the realm of possibility, certainly.

3 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

The Mastermind gains pets as they level up. While I understand there are two "Upgrade" abilities that are tied to your primary rather than the Pet Secondary, I am still curious: Does the Duo Pet have some sort of upgrade process where as you level up, the Partner gets bigger? Or does it START off as the Major summon and scale from there? Maybe an example will illustrate my point:

 

A level one Robotics Duo: Does it, like a Mastermind, start off with the basic little robot, then upgrade it to Protector Bot when Mastermind gets their second bot? Or Do you start OFF with the Giant Assault Bot? 

 

Another way to look at this is like this: the Ranks for NPC mobs go like this: Underling*, Minion, Lieutenant, Pet**, Boss, Elite Boss, Arch Villain/Hero, Monster, Giant Monster

*Underlings are like Rikti Monkeys, I think... tiny guys that only pose a threat because of their great numbers, making them cannon fodder for AoE.

**Pet class is for the summons of Non-Masterminds like Dominators and Controllers. I think it has less protections against effects, but has more hitpoints/damage to make up for it's chaotic and uncommandable nature. Masterminds can summon Minions, Lieutenants, and a Boss.

Obviously, unless you do something special like have a Duo with a growing mob of weakling creatures, we can throw out Underlings.

So do you start with a minion and work your way up to your partner being an Elite Boss or, gasp, an Arch? Or does he start off as a Boss and just scale from there?

The Duo's partner is the equivalent of a Mastermind's final pet. The exceptions are for Ninjitsu and Hellfire Aura, which instead get the mid-tier pets from Ninjas and Demon Summoning respectively, starting with the first pet at level one, then adding the second at level 18. This was mostly because the final tier pets of those sets didn't fit thematically on their own (the final Ninjas pet for MMs is an Oni, and the final pet for Demon Summoning is an ice demon where the rest of the set is fire-themed.)

3 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

~Also, since the Upgrades are from the Primary Powerset... are they simple buff effects, or do they uniquely alter the Duo Character when activated? It would be interesting to see a Gun Assault Set that arms a Lich with an American Civil War era Gatling Gun or something. Obviously, that's wild dreams category... but we can hope!

They just add new powers to the pet. That said, if it were to grant any powers with weapons, I think it would also give the pet the weapon, too. And the powers could probably add a VFX while active on the pet (sparks, flames, etc). But that would require me making new PFX files for the powers and I know nothing of the FX file syntax.

[Pbuckley818]

Hey seeing as you have done so much work to get your idea up and running I was curious what all it would take for me to start working on something like this? Like what all would I need to know to get started?

[Zepp]

7 hours ago, Pbuckley818 said:

Hey seeing as you have done so much work to get your idea up and running I was curious what all it would take for me to start working on something like this? Like what all would I need to know to get started?

There is some information on earlier pages of this thread if that helps...

[FDR's Think Tank]

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 1:30 AM, malonkey1 said:

 

The Duo's partner is the equivalent of a Mastermind's final pet. The exceptions are for Ninjitsu and Hellfire Aura, which instead get the mid-tier pets from Ninjas and Demon Summoning respectively, starting with the first pet at level one, then adding the second at level 18. This was mostly because the final tier pets of those sets didn't fit thematically on their own (the final Ninjas pet for MMs is an Oni, and the final pet for Demon Summoning is an ice demon where the rest of the set is fire-themed.)

 

On one hand, I love the idea of variety among power sets. The idea that some Duos only get one summon... and some can have two is pretty darn cool. However, since it is a matter of one vs. two it might be tricky. If balance became an issue, you might need to side step the issue.

 

For an alternative to the Demon Summoning set, you could always use the "Girlfriend from Hell" the Hellions have to give the set a unique partner that isn't Ice Based. I can see a lot of people wanting to a Succubus build anyway! I think she has a green fire whip attack right now... I don't know if the whip can be colored differently. Also, not exactly a demon, you have those "Hordelings" the Circle of Thorns is always summoning, and sometimes seriously regretting... I don't know if it would be separate, or an alternate skin, but if there was a "Large" Hordeling, they would be an excellent Lovecraftian partner.

 

As far as the Oni goes, I have heard some people request an alternate "Shogun" style of the summon... but you are correct, for someone trying to make a Ninja theme, this isn't quite appropriate. Maybe a bare-chested Yakuza style Ninja would be in order? Other than the tattoos, you could give him Ninja Blade powers. Another option might be to use the Tsoo Sorceror model, but with Melee attacks... sort of a "Big Trouble Little China" Vibe, but without the Electricity all over the place. The game has lots of Martial Artist mobs, maybe playing around with other models is in order.

 

I know you have the nature set summoning a Dire Wolf, but is it possible to get a Big Lion, a Shadow Panther, An Elephant, or even an Ape partner in there? Some of these models exist, at the least! Maybe Elephant could be saved for a Persian Siege style set instead. I don't know, I am just riffing here. There are lots of themes one could do if the animal was able to be swapped in the set from a selection, like a costume change. I suppose attack animations might be tricky to translate.

 

It's too bad the Kheldian's are such spaghetti code. If would have been awesome if you could recolor them and make another sub-species of their kind that works as a Duo, not being quite as Symbiotic as their original cousins. Red Kheldians, for instance! They could be "Strifeswimmers" or something with a vaguely chaotic tint. They would seek to seriously aggravate escalated situations without changing the course of history.

 

 

On a related topic:

It would be really neat to see a "Safari/Jungle Assault" set for this. It would contain Machete swipes, Elephant Gun Shooting, and other poaching/park ranger style abilities. For people who want a sort of Allan Quartermain or Gun Toting Jane Goodall type character. 

 

 

 

 

[Galaxy Brain]

Hows this coming, @malonkey1? 🙂

[malonkey1]

11 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Hows this coming, @malonkey1? 🙂

Pretty well, actually. I've got the powers working with Ouroboros's i24 dataset, except for the capstone powers. Basically, the T9 for the secondaries is a transformation, either merging with your partner or transforming into them. (For example, wearing the Assault Bot as an armor suit and getting some Absorb and access to some of its attacks, or taking an Astral form and getting similar powers to your Astral doppelganger). Some of those have been...funky. Especially since trying to wrap my head around how the game's animation system works is a giant pain. I'll see if I can record a video on one of my days off showing some of this stuff.

[malonkey1]

Alright, so I know I've been basically totally absent for months, but I wanted to let you guys know that I actually have the Archetype (including ATO enhancements) working and playable. It's going to be on the Sanctuary server in a future update, but it's also publicly available for use by any server, including Homecoming on the Ourodev Gitlab, so you can find it there. Fair warning, it does require a minor server/client code alteration to fully work, so if anyone running a server wants to run it, they'll either need to incorporate that change or slightly alter the data files.

 

The git is here: https://git.ourodev.com/mods/synergist-at

 

In order to access it to use on your server, you will need to join the Ourodev discord and request access: https://www.ourodev.com/

[Zepp]

So, what does their ATO look like?

[malonkey1]

Just now, Zepp said:

So, what does their ATO look like?

They have two sets: Synergist's Coordination and Shared Victory. They're both Damage sets that can be slotted into Assault or Pri/Sec Pet powers.

 

Synergist's Coordination's sixth enhancement applies a Build Up Proc to the user (the player if slotted in an attack power, the pet(s) if slotted in a pet power)

 

Shared Victory's sixth enhancement applies a Level Shift proc to your pets, regardless of if it's set in your assault power or pet power.

 

Otherwise, they resemble the Mastermind ATO sets.

[Replacement]

14 hours ago, malonkey1 said:

Alright, so I know I've been basically totally absent for months, but I wanted to let you guys know that I actually have the Archetype (including ATO enhancements) working and playable. It's going to be on the Sanctuary server in a future update, but it's also publicly available for use by any server, including Homecoming on the Ourodev Gitlab, so you can find it there. Fair warning, it does require a minor server/client code alteration to fully work, so if anyone running a server wants to run it, they'll either need to incorporate that change or slightly alter the data files.

 

The git is here: https://git.ourodev.com/mods/synergist-at

 

In order to access it to use on your server, you will need to join the Ourodev discord and request access: https://www.ourodev.com/

Congratulations!

[ImpousVileTerror]

Thanks for sharing the work you've done!  It's very much appreciated, @malonkey1.

However, is there any chance of availability and accessibility without the use of discord?

[malonkey1]

2 hours ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

Thanks for sharing the work you've done!  It's very much appreciated, @malonkey1.

However, is there any chance of availability and accessibility without the use of discord?

I suppose I could also host it on my own personal gitlab.

 

Here's the publicly available git for it. It's mirrored to the original, so it's going to be the same as the one available on Ourodev, but you will need to follow the instructions for "IF YOU DO NOT USE MY BRANCH".

 

I also updated the def files so Mental Projection is more easily usable without my code alterations, but it will still take a small alteration to the power definitions.

 

I would still recommend joining the Ourodev discord, as they have a lot of helpful people with valuable information on how everything works.

 

EDIT: It is important to mention that this is based off the i24 data, and so if you're not running off that, you may run into compatibility issues.

Edited July 17, 2020 by malonkey1

[Lines]

Awesome stuff! It's amazing to see people execute ideas like this. I think it's the future of CoH.

[ImpousVileTerror]

Tiny nitpick, but for naming convention consistency with the other ATOs, shouldn't the name of the first Set include the name of the Archetype itself?

[malonkey1]

7 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

Tiny nitpick, but for naming convention consistency with the other ATOs, shouldn't the name of the first Set include the name of the Archetype itself?

It does, the name changed during development to "Synergist".

[Galaxy Brain]

This is awesome @malonkey1!!

 

Are the sets in the OP up to date?

[malonkey1]

2 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

This is awesome @malonkey1!!

 

Are the sets in the OP up to date?

Approximately, I'll have to double check later on specifics.

[Replacement]

@malonkey1 I'm really curious about your implementation.  In particular, things like adding Charged Brawl to a Dire Wolf.  Did you basically go through each of the pets, and add every single grant-able power to them, building a custom version for each (e.g. "this power will be broadly Charged Brawl-esque, but using X claw swipe animation")?  And then basically the Equip powers are flags used to determine if those powers are locked?

 

If so, that would mean any new primary that gets added would require 4 new entries on each potential pet.

 

Again, I'm only curious.  This was a colossal undertaking with unique challenges, and I'm just interested in how the sausage was made.

[malonkey1]

21 minutes ago, Replacement said:

@malonkey1 I'm really curious about your implementation.  In particular, things like adding Charged Brawl to a Dire Wolf.  Did you basically go through each of the pets, and add every single grant-able power to them, building a custom version for each (e.g. "this power will be broadly Charged Brawl-esque, but using X claw swipe animation")?  And then basically the Equip powers are flags used to determine if those powers are locked?

 

If so, that would mean any new primary that gets added would require 4 new entries on each potential pet.

 

Again, I'm only curious.  This was a colossal undertaking with unique challenges, and I'm just interested in how the sausage was made.

Actually it just directly grants the powers, much like how MM upgrades grant powers.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Serious response: this actually seems like one of the more inventive ideas for a new AT, blending the old Guardian concept (assault/support) with Mastermind Pets. Or pet in this case. At the same time it's a fresh enough take and seems to work relatively within existing assets that it does feel as labor intensive as the insane number of new powers Guardian seemed to ask for, this also gives the benefit of giving some additional mileage out of assault and pet sets. To a degree.

 

joke response now: well if this goes through I'd probably roll up a STAND user and go on some Bizarre Adventures throughout Paragon, the Isles, and Praetoria.

[Ynaught]

Man am I late to this party, but holy S**T am I glad I hopped in! I LOVE this idea for a new AT and everything I've seen about it makes me want to play this soooo bad. I hope that work continues to progress and that someday soon we can all have a duo of our own!

[malonkey1]

6 minutes ago, Ynaught said:

Man am I late to this party, but holy S**T am I glad I hopped in! I LOVE this idea for a new AT and everything I've seen about it makes me want to play this soooo bad. I hope that work continues to progress and that someday soon we can all have a duo of our own!

Oh, yeah, it's available on the We Have Cake server, and it's coming to Sanctuary.

[Ynaught]

21 minutes ago, malonkey1 said:

Oh, yeah, it's available on the We Have Cake server, and it's coming to Sanctuary.

Homecoming is my home, but I'm tempted to take a vacation.   😁