Scrapper Tier Lists

[Ston]

Would love to hear your guys' feedback on these tier lists. Been doing pylon, trapdoor, and general scrapper gameplay for a long time now and put these together based on spreadsheet and anecdotal data. I think a supported tier list is a great tool to point players to who may need a new idea for a character.

 

Primaries:

 

Secondaries:

[BrandX]

I asking about this before.  This is what I remember seeing 🙂

[Ratch_]

Why is TW B tier?

[InvaderStych]

3 hours ago, Ston said:

I think a supported tier list is a great tool to point players to who may need a new idea for a character.

 

KM is way too high on that list.  I sorta-main a PM/SD scrapper and I just don't see KM being on par with Psi.

 

For that matter BS is much better than KM.  KM should be at least D, if not F.

Edited August 24, 2022 by InvaderStych
effing grammar & other stuff

[SomeGuy]

4 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

KM

 

 

KM is fine. It doesn't perform poorly for someone who figures it out.  Is it worth that? Up to you. It shouldn't be compared to Staff, let alone Spines. Now those are sad performers. 

[Parabola]

Personally I'd put shield defence in the s tier and drop both stone armour and radiation armour to a. D is a bit harsh on staff, a is a touch generous to martial arts and I think dark melee could nudge up into a. I might also be tempted to push fiery melee down a tier, it just doesn't offer enough.

[InvaderStych]

5 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

It shouldn't be compared to Staff, let alone Spines. Now those are sad performers. 

 

This is actually fair. I was being a bit harsh with that comparison.

 

5 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

It doesn't perform poorly for someone who figures it out.  Is it worth that? Up to you.

 

Hmm.  At the moment, no. That T9 is a big turn off for me. 😄

 

I'll concede that I've spent a ton of time making PM work, even with a "Concept > Meta" build, so perhaps more equivalent in that respect.  And I forget that things still rank low/high within a given tier.  PM is substantially better than it's rep, but not so much so it belongs in a higher tier.  I guess the same could be said for KM then.  My attempts with the latter were ... disappointing. 🤷‍♂️

 

🍻

Edited August 24, 2022 by InvaderStych

[Erratic1]

9 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Hmm.  At the moment, no. That T9 is a big turn off for me. 😄

 

You mean, *Wind up...wind up...wind up...someone has already killed it* ?

[SomeGuy]

6 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

You mean, *Wind up...wind up...wind up...someone has already killed it* ?

 

lol basically 😛 Corpse blasting is one of my chief complaints about playing Energy Melee.

[StriderIV]

Looks pretty sweet. I want to pull the trigger on a Claws Scrapper. What would people recommend pairing it with: Radiation Armor or Energy Aura?

Stone Armor seems like it could pair nicely, but the lack of a taunt aura worries me.

[SomeGuy]

3 hours ago, StriderIV said:

lack of a taunt aura worries me.

 

The secondary does Bio Armor levels of damage (this isn't an exaggeration, it really does). So if you do Stone Armor, I hope you really enjoy runners because everything will be running away.

[StriderIV]

17 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

The secondary does Bio Armor levels of damage (this isn't an exaggeration, it really does). So if you do Stone Armor, I hope you really enjoy runners because everything will be running away.

Yeah, that is my big fear and why I'm leaning towards wither EngA or Rad Armor. While I do team mostly, I don't want to be pulling my hair out if I ever do go solo.

[Without_Pause]

The nice thing about Claws is it can keep things around due to KD. Saying that, Claws/ea is about as much of a holy grail build I am going to find for a Scrapper.

[BrandX]

Is Katana that good in the damage department to be S tier?  Or is it just about DA?

[Wravis]

If I recall correctly, on the spreadsheet that was floating around once upon a time, Kinetic Melee wasn't actually C tier. It was just "I don't want to deal with figuring out power siphon" tier.

Similar to Savage Melee. It performs better if you build four stacks and dump blood frenzy instead and ignore the buildup altogether so you don't get the debuff. I don't think the original spreadsheet handled that.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Wravis

[SomeGuy]

6 hours ago, BrandX said:

Is Katana that good in the damage department to be S tier?  Or is it just about DA?

 

 

It's that good. I was never impressed by the AOE of it, but it's ST DPS is pretty rockin'.

Edited August 27, 2022 by SomeGuy

[thunder_crane]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:38 PM, Ratch_ said:

Why is TW B tier?

 

Ratch asking the real questions here. 

 

Should be top of A tier. There's enough post nerf 1:30 or less pylon times and the AoE and knockdown you can have on it is probably at the top? What's the deal?

 

 

[SomeGuy]

6 hours ago, thunder_crane said:

 

Ratch asking the real questions here. 

 

Should be top of A tier. There's enough post nerf 1:30 or less pylon times and the AoE and knockdown you can have on it is probably at the top? What's the deal?

 

 

 

I guess I'll respond to that question.

 

TW is absolutely not in the same category as stuff like DB anymore. It falls into the "is it worth it?" thought process like Kinetic Melee. You know how much of a fight and RNG being on your side for those kind of times to happen for TW? Keep in mind TW is NOT averaging less than 1:20 with no temps. Where it's placed on this tier list lines up with my own data collection.

 

You can't face-roll TW/BIO and expect to get a 1:30 time. You have to have a really REALLY tight attack rotation. It may be as tightly needed as a world first raiding guild DPS' rotation (and I'm talking from experience). And even then, you better have some RNG on your side.

Edited August 28, 2022 by SomeGuy

[Zepp]

My two level 50 scrappers are Spines/Regen and Staff/WP... I may need to put together an Energy Rad to see the other side of the list...

 

That being said, I've been playing Titan Weapon lately, and I find its performance up to level 24 to be below Spines and Staff at similar levels... Does it get better?

[thunder_crane]

8 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

I guess I'll respond to that question.

 

TW is absolutely not in the same category as stuff like DB anymore. It falls into the "is it worth it?" thought process like Kinetic Melee. You know how much of a fight and RNG being on your side for those kind of times to happen for TW? Keep in mind TW is NOT averaging less than 1:20 with no temps. Where it's placed on this tier list lines up with my own data collection.

 

You can't face-roll TW/BIO and expect to get a 1:30 time. You have to have a really REALLY tight attack rotation. It may be as tightly needed as a world first raiding guild DPS' rotation (and I'm talking from experience). And even then, you better have some RNG on your side.

 

Which is fine, I'm not saying RNG and skill aren't part of the game, but what exactly changed from 1 year ago for you to no longer have the same opinion of TW? 

 

 

You list it alongside S and A tier skills when it comes to ST. Even if we argue  that it no longer is as good as any of these, are we really saying the complete TW set belongs in B tier?

[SomeGuy]

3 minutes ago, Zepp said:

Does it get better?

 

 

TW doesn't get Whirling Smash until 26 and Arc of Destruction until 32. I honestly can't imagine how frustrating it would be to play the set without those abilities and trying to solo. That's basically all your AOE (or AOE worth anything that is).  AoD is ESSENTIAL for an optimal ST rotation to boot. So does it get better? I'd have to think it would if I was in your shoes.

[SomeGuy]

1 minute ago, thunder_crane said:

 

Which is fine, I'm not saying RNG and skill aren't part of the game, but what exactly changed from 1 year ago for you to no longer have the same opinion of TW? 

 

 

You list it alongside S and A tier skills when it comes to ST. Even if we argue  that it no longer is as good as any of these, are we really saying the complete TW set belongs in B tier?

 

I think the post I responded to might draw some confusion. The response I gave remarks on how the current TW does better ST DPS than a DM with 1x stack of Soul Drain. Most primaries do, actually. For my own data I have 9 other primaries, paired with Bio Armor, having a better average time than TW/BIO average. I have 13 other primaries with better averages than DM/BIO.

 

I've always considered Tier Lists as pretty good guidelines on where to start looking, but it definitely doesn't mean what I will enjoy the most. Hell, this one doesn't absolutely agree with my data. But it's close (looking at DB and WM). I LOVE playing DM. Damage wise it's an underperformer, but it's easily one of the more fun sets to play for me.

[Ratch_]

39 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

I guess I'll respond to that question.

 

TW is absolutely not in the same category as stuff like DB anymore. It falls into the "is it worth it?" thought process like Kinetic Melee. You know how much of a fight and RNG being on your side for those kind of times to happen for TW? Keep in mind TW is NOT averaging less than 1:20 with no temps. Where it's placed on this tier list lines up with my own data collection.

 

You can't face-roll TW/BIO and expect to get a 1:30 time. You have to have a really REALLY tight attack rotation. It may be as tightly needed as a world first raiding guild DPS' rotation (and I'm talking from experience). And even then, you better have some RNG on your side.

Out of curiosity, what are the averages you have for: 

1. Ice Melee
2. Dual Blades
3. Katana
4. Titan Weapons

And additionally, how many runs do you like to do before you decide on your average?

I couldn't agree more with the tight attack rotation and the overall unwiedly feeling of the set. Especially if I am experience any notable sort of lag, the set is unplayable to me.

[SomeGuy]

26 minutes ago, Ratch_ said:

Out of curiosity, what are the averages you have for: 

1. Ice Melee
2. Dual Blades
3. Katana
4. Titan Weapons

And additionally, how many runs do you like to do before you decide on your average?

I couldn't agree more with the tight attack rotation and the overall unwiedly feeling of the set. Especially if I am experience any notable sort of lag, the set is unplayable to me.

 

I actually got away from TW BEFORE the nerf cause of the same reasons you stated. There are more reasons, but those were a part of it.

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by SomeGuy

[Ratch_]

2 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

I actually got away from TW BEFORE the nerf cause of the same reasons you stated. There are more reasons, but those were a part of it.

 

I went ahead and did 20 runs with the tw/bio/soul I've been perfecting and I did get a 1m13s avg... but I also don't want it to be representative of the set. It entirely depends on what the builds you have listed there are like. And the variance/rng on TW really does exist to such an extreme degree that you need to be extremely mindful of what is going on since at times you will need to adapt your string. It's the furthest thing from comfortable.

Thanks for sharing those times though, it really is cool to see the averages and the interfaces + snipe/no snipe. The crab time looks pretty bonkers, is that just the nature of a bunch of pets being OP against a single target?