Petition to limit incarnate use for new content (ITF, etc.)

[Sarn]

I think it's important to be able to use incarnate powers for this content, but I feel that the use of cycling barrier is destroying what I believe is the intent of these, to make them challenging and to provide an opportunity to require a balanced team. I was looking forward to buff defenders having some value. Corruptors as well, though their added damage still makes them a decent choice. Anyone else feel this way, that incarnates just allow a workaround to incarnate resource harvesting at this point? What I see for LFG postings for ITF all say "T4 barrier a must." Yes, one can always choose to do it in a more difficult way, but invariably there is a tendency toward creep for speed runs. I understand that the whole thing can be done in 45 minutes now. Seems too quick to me. I propose that incarnates not be allowed to stack in those TFs. 

[Astralock]

See my thread.

 

 

[The_Warpact]

[Rudra]

It is my understanding that the higher difficulties are built around the use of incarnate abilities. So this request makes no sense to me.

[Mezmera]

20 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

 

I gave you a thumbs up but I'm not sure if I shoulda stuck with your theme and gave you a ceremonious thumbs down.  

 

...now I want a Commodus thumbs down reaction in place of the generic one we have.   Disappointed  

 

 

Edit: 

Oh yeah to the OP, I agree with Commodus

Edited August 29, 2022 by Mezmera

[The_Warpact]

13 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

I gave you a thumbs up but I'm not sure if I shoulda stuck with your theme and gave you a ceremonious thumbs down.  

 

...now I want a Commodus thumbs down reaction in place of the generic one we have.   Disappointed  

 

 

Edit: 

Oh yeah to the OP, I agree with Commodus

Worst Roman emperor name in history. 

[Psyonico]

As I said in the other thread, hard mode content is based around having the various tiers of incarnates slotted.  So 4 star is meant for people who are totally T4'd.

[The_Warpact]

1 minute ago, Psyonico said:

As I said in the other thread, hard mode content is based around having the various tiers of incarnates slotted.  So 4 star is meant for people who are totally T4'd.

They and the other person don't want stacked powers, not removing them per se. Or removed/halved from content outside if incarnate stuff.

Which this restricts players who might be on a 4 man team running an lrsf or some soloing an AV or any of the myriad of other possible scenarios. 

As one of those people I say "no thanks".

[Seed22]

20 hours ago, Sarn said:

I think it's important to be able to use incarnate powers for this content, but I feel that the use of cycling barrier is destroying what I believe is the intent of these, to make them challenging and to provide an opportunity to require a balanced team. I was looking forward to buff defenders having some value. Corruptors as well, though their added damage still makes them a decent choice. Anyone else feel this way, that incarnates just allow a workaround to incarnate resource harvesting at this point? What I see for LFG postings for ITF all say "T4 barrier a must." Yes, one can always choose to do it in a more difficult way, but invariably there is a tendency toward creep for speed runs. I understand that the whole thing can be done in 45 minutes now. Seems too quick to me. I propose that incarnates not be allowed to stack in those TFs. 

Is this an alt account? Sound likes an alt account post to me 😛

 

Barrier doesnt invalidate support. Ya get 20 sec of 90+ def. Do you really think that'll save you on HM 4? It doesn't, it really really REALLY REALLY doesn't. I've seen this myself, what you're seeing is probably someone taking it far too seriously and thinking barrier will be their savior because they saw that YT vid of...forget their name, cycling barriers for the secret fight for Aeon. I swear on all my Inf, Barrier Won't. Save. You.

 

Trust me, no one else really feels this way besides you and Astra, and also barrier isn't the problem. Also this suggestion will never happen, so I hate to be the bearer of bad news too

Edited August 30, 2022 by Seed22

[Excraft]

21 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Is this an alt account? Sound likes an alt account post to me 😛

 

Yeah, chances are that's exactly what it is.  That's how these whacked out ideas are put out there by the folks here to make it look like it's something the general populace wants.

[Luminara]

6 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Ya get 20 sec of 90+ def.

 

7.5 seconds (Barrier Radial Epiphany) or 10 seconds (Barrier Core Epiphany), from cast.

 

Drops to 30% for the next 15 seconds (Barrier Radial Epiphany) or 35% for 20 seconds (Barrier Core Epiphany).

 

Then it's 5% for the next 22.5 seconds (Barrier Radial Epiphany) or 7.5% for 30 seconds (Barrier Core Epiphany).

 

The final drop brings it to 2.5% for the last 45 seconds (Barrier Radial Epiphany) or 5% for 60 seconds (Barrier Core Epiphany).

[ivanhedgehog]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:21 PM, Sarn said:

I think it's important to be able to use incarnate powers for this content, but I feel that the use of cycling barrier is destroying what I believe is the intent of these, to make them challenging and to provide an opportunity to require a balanced team. I was looking forward to buff defenders having some value. Corruptors as well, though their added damage still makes them a decent choice. Anyone else feel this way, that incarnates just allow a workaround to incarnate resource harvesting at this point? What I see for LFG postings for ITF all say "T4 barrier a must." Yes, one can always choose to do it in a more difficult way, but invariably there is a tendency toward creep for speed runs. I understand that the whole thing can be done in 45 minutes now. Seems too quick to me. I propose that incarnates not be allowed to stack in those TFs. 

I propose you stop telling others how to play. Is there some deep inner need to mess with others entertainment?

[Pzn]

20 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

Yeah, chances are that's exactly what it is.  That's how these whacked out ideas are put out there by the folks here to make it look like it's something the general populace wants.

hahaha are the alt accounts in the room with you right now? 

[Sarn]

6 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

I propose you stop telling others how to play. Is there some deep inner need to mess with others entertainment?

There is, actually. And that is to return to some semblance of the game that I loved. Currently, it's prostituted to destiny barrier usage in my opinion, a gimmick to get around originally intended balanced team content. One can say that it's just a TF, but this has the capacity to be applied to other TFs in the future. Yes, there is the Master option that disallows incarnate usage, but nothing that eliminates this workaround gimmick, preserves some incarnate usage, and adds the nice bonuses to mobs. I'd be happy with that. I concede that there is still some idea of team chemistry (1 tank, damage, and -resist debuffers with sprinkling in of -accuracy), but it smacks of a gimmick. I'm less bothered by it than I was initially. I just wish there was an option for limiting incarnate usage. 

[Sarn]

14 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

7.5 seconds (Barrier Radial Epiphany) or 10 seconds (Barrier Core Epiphany), from cast.

 

Drops to 30% for the next 15 seconds (Barrier Radial Epiphany) or 35% for 20 seconds (Barrier Core Epiphany).

 

Then it's 5% for the next 22.5 seconds (Barrier Radial Epiphany) or 7.5% for 30 seconds (Barrier Core Epiphany).

 

The final drop brings it to 2.5% for the last 45 seconds (Barrier Radial Epiphany) or 5% for 60 seconds (Barrier Core Epiphany).

Yeah, but 8 x 29 seconds (min) of that 30% or above, refreshing every time, is what makes it so powerful. 

[Sarn]

21 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Is this an alt account? Sound likes an alt account post to me 😛

 

Barrier doesnt invalidate support. Ya get 20 sec of 90+ def. Do you really think that'll save you on HM 4? It doesn't, it really really REALLY REALLY doesn't. I've seen this myself, what you're seeing is probably someone taking it far too seriously and thinking barrier will be their savior because they saw that YT vid of...forget their name, cycling barriers for the secret fight for Aeon. I swear on all my Inf, Barrier Won't. Save. You.

 

Trust me, no one else really feels this way besides you and Astra, and also barrier isn't the problem. Also this suggestion will never happen, so I hate to be the bearer of bad news too

Fair enough. Numerically, it seems that cycling barrier will do what I think it will. I could be wrong. I'd like to see an option for limiting incarnates, but, yeah, it won't happen. 

[arcane]

As with the other thread, I don’t think this is a necessary change, but I’m still sorry you have to deal with such remarkably unhinged responses.

[Seed22]

4 hours ago, Sarn said:

There is, actually. And that is to return to some semblance of the game that I loved. Currently, it's prostituted to destiny barrier usage in my opinion, a gimmick to get around originally intended balanced team content. One can say that it's just a TF, but this has the capacity to be applied to other TFs in the future. Yes, there is the Master option that disallows incarnate usage, but nothing that eliminates this workaround gimmick, preserves some incarnate usage, and adds the nice bonuses to mobs. I'd be happy with that. I concede that there is still some idea of team chemistry (1 tank, damage, and -resist debuffers with sprinkling in of -accuracy), but it smacks of a gimmick. I'm less bothered by it than I was initially. I just wish there was an option for limiting incarnate usage. 

There is though. And no, it shouldn't be for everyone's experience.

 

 

 

Don't tell others how to play. It becomes a really nasty slope to go down. An example? You want less incarnates, someone could want no SO's, period. Everyone should have IO's and if ya don't? You don't get to join groups, at all, for ANY content. That's a bit extreme, but trust me, folks would retaliate in kind, and it wouldn't be pretty for the game overall. If you want old school, I get it, but there exist ways to make it happen already for yourself. If you insist on telling others, then I must get hyperbolic myself:

 

If you play without IO's, delete every toon you have without them. Non IO'ed toons(old school) slow everyone down and are an absolute burden on our already limited support. Harsh, right?

 

 

By the way that team chemistry you described is holy trinity garbage. Best not to do that here, outside of I guess HM 4, but even then that's a stretch.

 

EDIT: PSA for folks seeing these other folks advertising that barrier is a must, please inform them; all the barrier in the world won't fix sloppy tactics, and sure as HELL won't stop cascading def failure in ITF HM. It won't save you, and you WILL die a considerable amount.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Seed22

[Hyperstrike]

On 8/29/2022 at 2:37 PM, The_Warpact said:

I'll go you one better.

[The_Warpact]

17 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

I'll go you one better.

Damn son you got skillz

[Luminara]

41 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

I'll go you one better.

Now make him do the wave.

[Hyperstrike]

25 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Now make him do the wave.

Bah!  You give people a spectacle and STILL they complain!

😉

[The_Warpact]

12 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Bah!  You give people a spectacle and STILL they complain!

😉

Are you not entertained?!?

[Hyperstrike]

12 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Are you not entertained?!?

 

 

[EmperorSteele]

2 hours ago, Seed22 said:

 

EDIT: PSA for folks seeing these other folks advertising that barrier is a must, please inform them; all the barrier in the world won't fix sloppy tactics, and sure as HELL won't stop cascading def failure in ITF HM. It won't save you, and you WILL die a considerable amount.

 

I mean, you SAY that, but i PuG'd a 4-star speed run where the leader had us cycling Barrier, and while yes, deaths did happen, it was also the smoothest and fastest HM ITF run I've been on so far.

 

It's efficacy as a tactic borders on OP.