After Page 5 Brutes will suck more. Here's why

[Ston]

22 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

The real irony of this thread is @Ston posting tank vs brute times in the Trapdoor mission.  With limited procs the tank clears 6 seconds faster than the brute.  With heavy procs the tank wins by 47 seconds.  

 

 

Yeah.. The ceiling for Tanker performance feels so much higher than Brutes. Tankers are already near unkillable out-of-the-box, and now they can achieve insane damage on top of that. I often see this conversation resolved by "Brutes have better ST damage, Tankers have better AoE damage", but I'm skeptical of whether or not that is valid. When doing the Trapdoor tests, my Tanker was able to kill the Elite Boss a few seconds faster on average than the Brute. Adrenal Booster and Build Up procs made the Tanker melt things while it really didn't make any difference for the Brute.

 

In all my testing, the Brute versions of my builds were much harder to keep alive while struggling to compete with the clear speed of the Tanker. 

 

I did some Pylon testing too..

 

What I found was that the Tanker could kill the Pylon slightly faster than the Brute with a proc-heavy build but they were pretty neck-and-neck. When I switched to the builds without heavy proc usage (only 1 IO set allowed per attack), the Brute was consistently beating the Tanker by about 30 seconds (3m30s vs 3m averages).

 

Here's the kicker: The Brute needed a Defensive Amplifier and some purple/green inspirations to kill the Pylon without dying. The Tanker didn't need any outside buffs. 

 

All test results were pretty similar when using Fiery Aura, Bio Armor, Dark Armor, Savage Melee, Fiery Melee, and Battle Axe.

[Troo]

[Sovera]

My own posts with 'normal' builds (though Fire Armor focused and only some with Stone Armor) showed pylon times as one minute faster with Brutes. Trap door I have a list and Tankers always ended in the 6 minute range. Brutes, depending on sets, could go between six minutes to five minutes.

 

I can't argue with results though, and, in fact, I've bailed from much of this arguing nowadays since Ston has shown without doubt that the scenario the devs built for (Brutes more damage, Tankers more durable) is skewed completely out of wack by abusing procs. Which is great for the player but messing with the intents, calculations, and, in fact, difficult to even balance around. Neuter Tanker's damage even more because a small % of players load up on procs? What about the rest who do normal builds? What about those who actually builds as Tankers and for defense? Nerf them too in the process because of the 0.5% proc bombing?

 

 

Once page 6 arrives and the procalypse is done with we can once sift the ashes and once more balance ATs, not how many procs can be fit in a build.

[Sanguinesun]

On 10/27/2022 at 3:04 AM, Sovera said:

My own posts with 'normal' builds (though Fire Armor focused and only some with Stone Armor) showed pylon times as one minute faster with Brutes. Trap door I have a list and Tankers always ended in the 6 minute range. Brutes, depending on sets, could go between six minutes to five minutes.

 

I can't argue with results though, and, in fact, I've bailed from much of this arguing nowadays since Ston has shown without doubt that the scenario the devs built for (Brutes more damage, Tankers more durable) is skewed completely out of wack by abusing procs. Which is great for the player but messing with the intents, calculations, and, in fact, difficult to even balance around. Neuter Tanker's damage even more because a small % of players load up on procs? What about the rest who do normal builds? What about those who actually builds as Tankers and for defense? Nerf them too in the process because of the 0.5% proc bombing?

 

 

Once page 6 arrives and the procalypse is done with we can once sift the ashes and once more balance ATs, not how many procs can be fit in a build.

 

 

I've still yet to see any devs say they're nerfing procs. All I keep seeing is players saying that.  Any specific official source you can cite?

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

 

I've still yet to see any devs say they're nerfing procs. All I keep seeing is players saying that.  Any specific official source you can cite?

 

Not from the forums. It is discord talk from/between the devs.

[Gobbledigook]

On 10/26/2022 at 6:43 PM, Ston said:

 

 

 

What I found was that the Tanker could kill the Pylon slightly faster than the Brute with a proc-heavy build but they were pretty neck-and-neck. When I switched to the builds without heavy proc usage (only 1 IO set allowed per attack), the Brute was consistently beating the Tanker by about 30 seconds (3m30s vs 3m averages).

 

Here's the kicker: The Brute needed a Defensive Amplifier and some purple/green inspirations to kill the Pylon without dying. The Tanker didn't need any outside buffs. 

 

All test results were pretty similar when using Fiery Aura, Bio Armor, Dark Armor, Savage Melee, Fiery Melee, and Battle Axe.

Strange...I have done the pylon with a proc heavy SS/Bio Brute and never felt threatened by the pylon at anytime. You can get nuked from above though which can hurt.

[Gobbledigook]

58 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

Not from the forums. It is discord talk from/between the devs.

I suppose they could limit the amount of procs you can slot in one power or give different scaling of procs for each AT. Possibly even reducing the effectiveness of each extra proc after slotting one in a power by a %. 1st proc is 100% ,second is reduced by 10% or thereabouts and so on giving diminishing returns the more you slot in a single power.

 

Reducing the +AoE radius of Tankers to 25% i could live with, as i said at the time it seemed a little OTT, although i like it now lol. I would rather that than reducing the damage scale and taking an age to take a hard target down, especially if procs were nerfed also.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

I've still yet to see any devs say they're nerfing procs. All I keep seeing is players saying that.  Any specific official source you can cite?

 

It has been mentioned in the forums that procs 'could be looked at' but there was no defined timeline. This was maybe 2 springs ago. So it has been around.

I don't think the goal is to nerf them but it will likely feel like a nerf to some.

 

..of course this is not as valuable as a blue name saying what's what, but that's not likely to happen.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Troo

[Ston]

49 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Strange...I have done the pylon with a proc heavy SS/Bio Brute and never felt threatened by the pylon at anytime. You can get nuked from above though which can hurt.

 

It was probably because I used the same slotting for the Brute and Tank. The Brute probably needed more S/L resistance and maybe start off Parasitic Aura. I’ll run some tests later and post results in the Pylon thread.

[lemming]

10 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

It has been mentioned in the forums that procs 'could be looked at' but there was no defined timeline. This was maybe 2 springs ago. So it has been around.

I don't think the goal is to nerf them but it will likely feel like a nerf to some.

I'm buying up popcorn shares for that.

 

I'm predicting that procs will be changed the day after I finally get around to making a proc heavy build.

[JStacy337]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:27 AM, Sovera said:

But will they spit or swallow?

That depends on if they tale Mako's Leviathan Mastery or not

[Sanguinesun]

6 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Not from the forums. It is discord talk from/between the devs.

 

So in other words there's just your saying so and no actual substantiated, citable statements from them?

[Sovera]

Just now, Sanguinesun said:

 

So in other words there's just your saying so and no actual substantiated, citable statements from them?

 

...

 

Why yes, I could be lying about it. Indeed, that's an option too.

 

👍

[Sanguinesun]

Just now, Sovera said:

 

...

 

Why yes, I could be lying about it. Indeed, that's an option too.

 

👍

 

Or, one can simply say its conjecture until such time as there is substantiated and citable sources to corroborate your statements... 

[Galactron]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:50 AM, Snarky said:

you folks know this ain't a reddit forum, right?

Mate, I have a few tabs of these forums open in the same Firefox window as a few tabs of Reddit...   if it wasn't for the different formatting, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

[Shred Monkey]

Personally I think Brutes probably need at least another 50% damage from fury, maybe another 100%, but that's always been the case, not just now.   Although, I  wish fury would fade faster so you have to really work and/or put yourself at risk for that bigger damage bonus.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Shred Monkey

[nihilii]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:50 PM, Snarky said:

you folks know this ain't a reddit forum, right?

Wait... what??? All this time I thought I was farming karma!

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Personally I think Brutes probably need at least another 50% damage from fury, maybe another 100%, but that's always been the case, not just now.   Although, I  wish fury would fade faster so you have to really work and/or put yourself at risk for that bigger damage bonus.

Lol you missed the never ending wheel above where we lamented to reduction in Fury +damage AND the limited decay.  Which steals the playstyle from true Brutes riding the Fury surfboard