PRAETOR, STOP THIS CRAZY THING!: Leveling too quickly for Praetoria's arcs

[AspieAnarchy]

16 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

In a nutshell? Stay at the locked level until you're done with each zone.  Locking them a level or two early as indicated in Apparition's guide is the safest route. 

 

Thanks to @Templarstone for posting the updated guide. I had forgotten it was Apparition that wrote it.

 

Oh I see: Nova Praetoria is 1-8, so that's where I freeze at 7, and when I transfer to Imperial...if I can't yet reach Imperial...so, per Astralocke's advice, I guess I just make my way to level 8 by hunting the Exploration Tips and such?

 

Is 8 the only level where I might have to work my way out of limbo by doing this (not that that would be hard, if it comes to that)?

Edited October 14, 2022 by AspieAnarchy

[InvaderStych]

Just now, AspieAnarchy said:

Oh I see: Nova Praetoria is 1-8, so that's where I freeze at 7, and when I transfer to Imperial...if I can't yet reach Imperial...wait, maybe I should instead freeze at 8? Is there something wrong with that?

 

IIRC I froze at 8 and got away with it, but my run was in 2020, so the memory is fuzzy.  Others have had trouble with certain contacts so locking at 7 is the safest bet. If I ran it again I'd lock at 7, etc.

 

Once you're done with the Nova contacts, turn XP back on and either run the repeatable contact (Clockwork guy), or street sweep Imperial until you hit 9 and the contacts start talking to you again.  You can navigate the zones at any level, the contacts just won't speak to you if you are out of their level range.

 

Definitely start in the tutorial and do the undercover stuff.  👍

[Apogee]

When I run my characters gold side I level up to 10 and turn off xp until I complete all mission arcs in Nova/Underground.  When I move over to Imperial City I turn xp back on until I hit 15 then it is off again until I complete all arcs in Imperial City/Underground.  Then on to Neutropolis/Underground where I turn off xp at level 20 until the arcs are complete.  I go through all story lines (Warden, Crusader, Responsibility, and Loyalist) on each character, switching alignments as needed along the way.  It is important to note that when you are aligned Loyalist you cannot access the Crusader arcs or contacts (Underground Resistance contacts), and when you are aligned Resistance you cannot access the Power arcs or contacts.  On one recent playthrough I switched to Resistance in Nova before completing Reese's solo mission which removed the mission from my list.  I kept xp off (at level 10) and went to Imperial City and completed the Crusader arc (Hatchet/Beholder/Vagabond/Wardog) and changed sides to Imperial then went back to Nova and completed Reese's final mission.  I lost access to the mission because my alignment was wrong but was able to complete it once I changed alignment because I had not leveled past 10.

 

The other thing to be aware of in trying to do all of the arcs is that certain contacts are killed during other story arcs and if you do not complete the missions from that contact before he dies you will not be able to get the accolades (Rising Star and/or True to the Last).  Redlynne has a good guide that was linked above that details the contacts to be careful with in this regard.  There is also some good info on the Wiki for all of the Praetorian contacts and missions.  Be careful when you get to Neutropolis as Calvin Scott has missions that will skip Crow and Helix if started too early.  Also, in Imperial City Underground, Vagabond will send you to see Wardog even though he has one more mission to complete.  Make sure you complete all of Vagabond's missions before you level to 16 or you will miss out on the Rising Star badge.

 

Have fun gold side, the stories are great!  Just be wary of the third mission in Bobcat's arc ;)

[Snarky]

9 hours ago, Astralock said:

 

Not entirely true.  Some contacts in Nova Praetoria will stop talking to you at level 8, Imperial City at level 15, and Neutropolis at level 19.  It's funky that way.  So you're much better off turning XP off at levels 7, 13/14, and 18 just to be on the safe side.  13/14 is a little funky in that once you ding level 14, you may start to get offered Neutropolis story arcs, so there's risk that if you ding level 14 and aren't careful, you may start going down the Neutropolis path before you finish Imperial City, but you'll still get missions from Imperial City contacts.  Just need to be really careful.

Yes, Praetoria has some odd level restriction quirks.  You encounter a couple of these red/blue pre-10 as well.

[Redletter]

19 hours ago, AspieAnarchy said:

 

Certainly, I know better than to use XP boosts - but if those are "seriously" my two only options, surely you can understand why I thought it reasonable to expect more/other options? That was piss-poor design if what you say is true, something you'd definitely think playtesters could've and would've spotted and wished to see solved.

 

Thanks for the specific levels - but for how long do I do so then?

 

Well, this may seem a little out there but...

 

Have you considered bringing a friend, and/or turning down the difficulty? Less powerful enemies means less EXP rewards for defeating them. I'm not sure if the praetorian mission EXP is enough to level you out of a contact's range purely on it's own (if so, that seems really wack). Then there's how EXP is shared among teams, to my knowledge a small team of two or three sees less returns than a solo player, and I *think* you can set the team size lower too and have it apply so you dont get more mobs? So that's even LESS exp?

 

I don't know the math on this, im not a nerd, but that'd be my solution if you're like me and you REALLY fucking like the DING.

[Lazarillo]

Given the way that Praetorian enemies tend to be a little...overtuned, compared to similarly low-leveled foes on Primal Earth, and the fact that it's all story, and thus solo, focus anyway, it's always felt to me like bumping up the level caps on most of the arcs wouldn't really be harmful, frankly.  Same thing for the followups in the wards.  Oh, on that note, it'd be nice to rejigger the Ward contacts back to how they were when the game originally closed, too (as in, putting back the contacts that let you stay "true" Praetorians and go straight from Loyalist/Resistance into them, as well as maybe dropping the tendency of the first Night Ward contact to call you up and immediately spoil First Ward to every single character you make, whether you did First Ward or not).

[PresidentDSG]

It's really easy? You're only outleveling the arcs if you're going out of your way to maximize EXP.

 

Turn off your double EXP and play them at x1 and you're generally going to be hunting for missions between each arc to hit the minimum level for the next one. If you don't want to do that, be prepared to have a wiki open for the level ranges and shut off EXP before you outlevel the next contact.

[Snarky]

Just now, Lazarillo said:

Given the way that Praetorian enemies tend to be a little...overtuned, compared to similarly low-leveled foes on Primal Earth, and the fact that it's all story, and thus solo, focus anyway, it's always felt to me like bumping up the level caps on most of the arcs wouldn't really be harmful, frankly.  Same thing for the followups in the wards.  Oh, on that note, it'd be nice to rejigger the Ward contacts back to how they were when the game originally closed, too (as in, putting back the contacts that let you stay "true" Praetorians and go straight from Loyalist/Resistance into them, as well as maybe dropping the tendency of the first Night Ward contact to call you up and immediately spoil First Ward to every single character you make, whether you did First Ward or not).

I would agree wholeheartedly....  except the trend is to make things way harder in the modern game.  Goldside 1-20 is without a doubt way harder than red/blue.  I would recommend being grateful you have red/blue before they start adding EBs to every mission in every arc as part of the new game design.

[Lazarillo]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I would agree wholeheartedly....  except the trend is to make things way harder in the modern game.  Goldside 1-20 is without a doubt way harder than red/blue.  I would recommend being grateful you have red/blue before they start adding EBs to every mission in every arc as part of the new game design.

You're...not wrong.  I'll note that at least some of that is, at least officially, meant to be content for teams and/or max level content, and most of the places where it appears below about level 25 was to bring said content up to the level Praetoria's already at.  I can't think of too much new content, Primalside, that's pre-30 (or even pre-50), and that wouldn't be about equal to anything you see in Neutropolis or First Ward.

 

The most challenging enemies, likewise, tend to appear in TFs, where they're little more than speed bumps, typically, but TFs are also made primarily for...shall we say...efficient progression, which is opposed to the goal of playing the whole Praetorian story in the first place (hence this thread's entire existence), I don't feel like that should have to be a concern on any devs' part.  Doesn't mean it's what they'd want to do, for whatever reason, but I don't think the idea is unreasonable in an objective sort of way.

[Major_Decoy]

18 hours ago, AspieAnarchy said:

All I want to do is be able to take a character who's committed to one of the 4 Praetorian Factions and make my way through the respective full chain of mission arcs, from levels 1-20, without needing to rely overmuch on turning off XP (I should be able to at least do all the missions with XP on, is that so unreasonable an expectation?) or latecoming bandaids like Ourobouros...but I am having the darnedest time doing so.

 

E.G.: I presently have a Crusader who just reached 17th-level after completing Vagabond's arc; aside from missing out on completing Jackhammer's arc due to gaining 1 too many levels a hair too soon, it's been able to hit the full Crusader opus so far - but now, I cannot even be introduced to Wardog.

 

What do I do?

 

I'm not as concerned about this current character - maybe I'll start over, maybe I'll lump it with Ouroboros later - but I want to know how to avoid this problem with future Praetorian characters.

For only one of the four arcs, in my experience:

Nova Praetoria: You have to be careful not to outlevel the final contact. I've used this to my advantage to skip having to do the final Responsibility mission where you choose between Loyalist and Resistance.

Imperial City: I've outleveled Katie before I could start her missions a couple of times, but I usually manage to get all the contacts for one arc.

Neutropolis: At this point, I usually find that finishing just one faction isn't enough. I need to do either some pick-up missions or start a second faction.

[AspieAnarchy]

17 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

 Oh, on that note, it'd be nice to rejigger the Ward contacts back to how they were when the game originally closed, too (as in, putting back the contacts that let you stay "true" Praetorians and go straight from Loyalist/Resistance into them....

 

OMG, I was never even aware those existed (I never managed to get involved in Praetoria on Live beyond one aborted peek into the Tutorial)!

 

Yes, FFS, bring those back!!!

[Major_Decoy]

I don't think they're gone? You can go and talk to the doorman as a praetorian and I'm resistance and  can get missions from Vickers, Roadflare, Trina Furst, and Nadia.

[AspieAnarchy]

Is that all Lazarillo meant???

 

I think I've met all of them except Roadflare.

 

What about for Loyalists?

[Major_Decoy]

6 hours ago, AspieAnarchy said:

Is that all Lazarillo meant???

 

I think I've met all of them except Roadflare.

 

What about for Loyalists?

The guy in a white suit with the big brim hat is the villain contact, but will also give missions to loyalists. Then there's... Angela Hu? (I'd have to log in to check) who is actually a loyalist.

[Lazarillo]

7 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

I don't think they're gone? You can go and talk to the doorman as a praetorian and I'm resistance and  can get missions from Vickers, Roadflare, Trina Furst, and Nadia.

Last I checked, Praetorians can talk to the primal contacts if they happen upon them in the underground, but their Praetorian-based transition dialogue and the ability to get to them using the "Find Contact" button is no longer available. Both of which were the case before the game's original closure.

 

Granted, even with that, you still run into issues in First Ward like Katie Douglas hating your Resistance Warden.  But it was a little more smooth.

[Major_Decoy]

Just now, Lazarillo said:

Last I checked, Praetorians can talk to the primal contacts if they happen upon them in the underground, but their Praetorian-based transition dialogue and the ability to get to them using the "Find Contact" button is no longer available. Both of which were the case before the game's original closure.

 

Granted, even with that, you still run into issues in First Ward like Katie Douglas hating your Resistance Warden.  But it was a little more smooth.

At least for the doorman, I recall the dialogue being praetorian specific.

[Lazarillo]

Interesting.  Maybe the issues I previously saw were a bug, or were stealthily "fixed" in some other way.  At some point I'll have to try again.

...maybe if level ranges in Praetoria overall get an overhaul?  Speaking of the topic itself...😅

Edited October 16, 2022 by Lazarillo

[Major_Decoy]

As to Katie, she just has one reaction for all praetorians: She doesn't remember you. At some point since you've helped her (or stopped her) she's had to deal with mother again and has lost all memories of the arc you shared with her. It's easier that way, you get the choice of telling her you helped her or hurt her no matter which you actually did, and it it's just another point to hammer home how awful mother is.

[Darmian]

2 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

Then there's... Angela Hu? (I'd have to log in to check) who is actually a loyalist.

Yes, it's Angela.

[Major_Decoy]

30 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Yes, it's Angela.

Further investigation tells me it's Anaconda. And she doesn't want your help unless you've got Cole's back.

[Darmian]

54 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

Further investigation tells me it's Anaconda. And she doesn't want your help unless you've got Cole's back.

Anaconda is Angela Hu's code name.

[Marshal_General]

There have been many times I have wished that the P2W merchant had an option for Live XP gain.

[gameboy1234]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:47 AM, Glacier Peak said:

Suggestion: Add to the P2W vendor the following: 0.5, 0.25, and 0.10 XP Rate temporary powers. 

 

I was literally going to add the exact same suggestion.  I'll assume that final two are a 75% reduction in XP and a 90% reduction.  I think the last one is unnecessary, maybe a 25% reduction (earn 0.75 XP) would be a better choice.

 

[Zhym]

On 10/16/2022 at 3:32 AM, Major_Decoy said:

As to Katie, she just has one reaction for all praetorians: She doesn't remember you. At some point since you've helped her (or stopped her) she's had to deal with mother again and has lost all memories of the arc you shared with her. It's easier that way, you get the choice of telling her you helped her or hurt her no matter which you actually did, and it it's just another point to hammer home how awful mother is.

True, and also sort of a shame.  It's an easy way to keep her dialogue tree simple, but after all my character did for Katie (or, in one case, to Katie), it would have been nice for that to have been more deeply reflected in our interactions.

 

Compare that to Penny Yin.  If you run the Mr. G red-side arc "The End of a Yin" after having done the Praetorian Resistance arc "My Best Friend, Rusty," Praetorian Penny Yin has a few heartbreaking things to say about your betrayal.  I actually felt really bad.

[UltraAlt]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:09 PM, AspieAnarchy said:

To reiterate:

For how long do you keep it off once you reach those levels?

 

If you've answered this, I'm afraid I cannot spot it.

 

Obviously, I have to turn XP back on at some point after reaching level 7,

otherwise I'll never reach level 13!

 

Turn it back on once you have completed the contact arc you are trying to complete.

If you already have another contact with an arc you want to complete, check what level they are before turning it back on, and you will know when you will have to turn it back on again if you want to finish that contacts arc.

 

I do get to the point on my Origin Arc character that I need to level up a level or two before I can get a new Origin contact and/or get missions from that contact.

As I'm trying to avoid getting additional contacts, I do this extra non-origin leveling through police scanner missions. I'm assuming that there is an equivalent to the police scanner/newspaper missions on the Praetorian side, but I can't give you information on that as I have a great distaste for the early level Praetorian content and, therefore, I don't make Praetorian characters.