Fire farming was nerfed

[shatterpoint]

14 hours ago, Sneakers said:

We do have freedom of speech still

 

The United States Government does not run CoH or these forums.....what are you getting at?

Freedom of speech...so misunderstood.

 

 

[Marbing]

2 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 

Freedom of speech is protection from the government arresting you for your speech.  It does not give you power over private companies and individuals and require that they let you post whatever you want.

 

It also does not mean that others cannot post what they want in response to you.

 

For some reason people cry "freedom of speech" as a way to complain about others speaking freely.   As if freedom of speech is for them personally.  They can say what they want and no one else can.

 

You are entitled to state your opinion.  And others are entitled to state theirs.  Stating your opinion and then complaining when others state theirs does not make you look like a victim, it makes you look entitled and hypocritical.

It’s times like these I wish I could give more “likes” to a single post.

[MistressOhm]

Time for the Civics lesson.

 

First Amendment

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

That's the whole thing.  

 

Deconstructed:

 

Congress = The US Congress.  Not private individuals, or companies, or any other entity.

 

Shall make no law = just what it says.  No laws of the following issues will ever be passed, and any laws passed that come close will be challenged and likely struck.

 

Respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof = No law that either promotes a religious view or practice OR prohibits a religious view or practice.  Congress is NOT to be involved in religious matters. Ever.

 

Or abridging the freedom of Speech, or of the Press = Speaking out or writing something in an article will never be patently illegal.  That's the entire prohibition supporting "Free Speech".  The GOVERNMENT will never be able to censor, redact, abridge, edit, or prosecute based on expressed facts or opinion.  

 

Or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances = Protesting, holding meetings, circulating petitions, calling one's reps on the phone will never be deemed illegal as long as it's done "peaceably", i.e. no rioting or violence.  Loud chanting and singing is fine. Signs trolling the 'opposition' are fine. Threats to life and property are right out.

 

Notice that in the above, there is nothing that says you are protected from a response, only that the response cannot be "The Government" shutting you up.  If you say something inflammatory, expect to be called out on it.  If you write something libelous, expect to be called into court to either prove the veracity or be held accountable for damage (this is what happened to Mr. Jones, who is now facing nearly a billion dollars in renumeration expense because he decided to call grieving families 'paid actors' for an event he asserted never happened.)  

 

Homework assignment: Compare and contrast "government" censorship with corporate moderation.  Class dismissed.

[Widower]

Could we (to use a technical term) not?

[RunoKnows]

16 hours ago, Sneakers said:

 

I already dipped into this. I was outright insulted about it multiple times. I don't think it's funny. 

We do have freedom of speech still. Unless someone wants to delete my posts. I will post what I want.

The glorious thing about freedom of speech is that if person A makes use of freedom of speech to say something... I don't know, incredibly stupid, person B also has the right to tell person A that they said something stupid. That's it. That's how it works

 

That being said, you can certainly post what you want, but if you're running into the situation where people keep disagreeing with what you have to say, you should probably stop and reflect on what you've been saying to make sure that you aren't going all Skinners on everyone.

[Vanden]

2 hours ago, agentx5 said:

And by saying this, your essentially mildly harassing and making @Sneakers'  point for him.  *sigh*

 

FAIL

 

Posters like OP have completely convinced themselves that what they believe is true. No amount of facts or logic can dissuade them, and they looove playing the victim. What else is there to do but snark on them, and maybe get some forum points for the trouble?

[Nurvus]

10 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Posters like OP have completely convinced themselves that what they believe is true. No amount of facts or logic can dissuade them, and they looove playing the victim. What else is there to do but snark on them, and maybe get some forum points for the trouble?

 

I actually did have a chat with them last night and I think it was more productive than shitting on them. Also, I brought up the Code of Conduct to avoid the whole "well ackshually..." discourse about the first amendment lol. But oh well. I TRIED. People here just can't help themselves with escalating everything.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Nurvus

[Clam Leader]

Farming is not and should not be a reason to avoid buffing underperforming sets like Fire Melee, making the AI more effective, and increasing the tools available in AE.

 

Farming does not exist in a closed system and it is not so sacred an act that it should be the reason to forsake other parts of the game.

 

Even on live Farming was a game of whack a mole with the devs. With devs adjusting things and players seeking out the new meta for it. The fact that Farming has been so static for so long has left the modern Farmer weak and ineffectual by comparison. Only through true hardship can they reclaim the innovation and strength of there fore fathers. 

 

I suggest we nerf farming more. For the farmers.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Clam Leader

[MistressOhm]

5 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Posters like OP have completely convinced themselves that what they believe is true. No amount of facts or logic can dissuade them, and they looove playing the victim. What else is there to do but snark on them, and maybe get some forum points for the trouble?

 

Sadly, this is a widespread social trend.  We have two choices - do as Vanden says and use them as cheap shots for comedic value (cruel), or simply ignore them (also cruel, but less so than the first option.)   The first option of course paints those responding as bullies no matter how well-intentioned the ribbing is meant, and the other option is branded as 'cancel culture' because those with 'fringe' viewpoints never get the attention they seek and see THAT as a concerted effort to silence them.

 

Downvote button is below and to the right.  

 

 

[DrunkFlux]

 

 

It's unfortunate that it becomes to easy to pick on them, but we cannot really blame them.   When a human being relies on anything specific for an especially long time they get so accustomed it becomes impossible to develop new skills.  It's unfortunate human beings are ingrained to get specialized but it's a fascinating trait we all have really, because in the old days it did help us survive.  Nature expected us to learn how to hunt and gather and never have to learn any new skills after, so we had to force ourselves out of that and begin farming and writing so we could record our progress on the path that is scientific and technological progress.

 

Of course they never actually knew that we as humans love to get comfortable and we humans also hate being pushed into the unknown.  Many people do not like having to change, even if we(and also they)do enjoy stories where protagonists are forced to change to achieve their goals.  And it's unfortunate that many have never actually tried to change or objectively look at themselves and how they play, even making the claim they refuse to do so on the premise of how they play.  But of course without carefully watching every detail and an unwillingness or inability to self reflect ultimately prevents adapting.  The only solution left for them at this point is to try and rightfully protest in the forums against the change.

[Rishidian]

3 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

 

Sadly, this is a widespread social trend.  We have two choices - do as Vanden says and use them as cheap shots for comedic value (cruel), or simply ignore them (also cruel, but less so than the first option.)

 

 

I have to disagree on part of this.  I believe it is not cruel to ignore some posts.  Instead, it is can be considered a kindness to not use them as cheap shots for comedic value.  'Can't say something nice...' you know the rest.    I ignore the majority of the forums here, and thus, the majority of posts.  There is no cruelties there.  But ignoring a post that you read, and not responding because you have nothing kind or constructive to say, is not cruel in any way.

 

Remember - you are entitled to your opinion.  But nobody else is.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Rishidian
Spelling - my amazingly fat fingers

[Infinitum]

3 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

Downvote button is below and to the right.  

Oooooo GM Downvote..

 

[MistressOhm]

Well... the GM tested it, it works... >.>

[Songseven]

we've only reached the third day.....of a seven day binge!

[Ruin Mage]

So there I was, getting my face ripped off by a pack of wild hyenas...

[Sneakers]

I'm glad you all kept my post alive while I was gone.

While I didn't read the entirety of all your posts. I did at least glance at them.

Thumbs up for the haters who were less hateful this time. 

 

I thought it was really funny the people who decided to break down what freedom of speech means to them.

Some of you stopped short of saying that I don't have freedom of speech. Just barely.

[Sneakers]

9 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 

Freedom of speech is protection from the government arresting you for your speech.  It does not give you power over private companies and individuals and require that they let you post whatever you want.

 

It also does not mean that others cannot post what they want in response to you.

 

For some reason people cry "freedom of speech" as a way to complain about others speaking freely.   As if freedom of speech is for them personally.  They can say what they want and no one else can.

 

You are entitled to state your opinion.  And others are entitled to state theirs.  Stating your opinion and then complaining when others state theirs does not make you look like a victim, it makes you look entitled and hypocritical.

 

Thanks for your and others, elaborate explanations of what three words which need no further explanation "really" means to you.

 

I welcome what others post. 

 

Freedom of speech means you are free to say what you want. 

There is no need to further complicate it. 

If for the purpose of the forum or if the moderators feel like it they will delete a post just as I described. 

 

Thanks for letting me know I am entitled to my own opinions.

In my opinion, it is wrong to try and intimidate or misguide a person from speaking their mind.

[MistressOhm]

1 minute ago, Sneakers said:

Freedom of speech means you are free to say what you want. 

 

 While Sneakers is not, technically, wrong, it's incomplete.  It ALSO means that others are free to say what they like, as well.  A point seemingly lost among all of the rabble-rabble that's been going on.

 

Say what you like.  If it's BS, expect someone else to say so.  If it's harmful, expect someone else's lawyer to request 'cease and desist'.  (Thankfully, I doubt any discussion on CoH would be considered Harmful short of advertising to NCSoft how much fun we're having with the game they threw away.)

[battlewraith]

5 hours ago, Vanden said:

Posters like OP have completely convinced themselves that what they believe is true. No amount of facts or logic can dissuade them, and they looove playing the victim. What else is there to do but snark on them, and maybe get some forum points for the trouble?

 

Yeah Sneakers is convinced that he has been screwed over and is getting shit on by other posters. I think the latter part of that is pretty obvious given posts like yours. He's got 58 posts (as opposed to your 3.2k). For me, that's not really enough to indicate what he loooves doing. And I'm not sure what posters like him are like, other than some people get pissed off and go on rants.

 

To answer your question: if you're going to troll people, have some self awareness about it. Then try to have some ambition about it. At least try to do something clever. Jumping on a dogpile in a thread where someone is complaining about being abused is lazy, low hanging fruit. Do better. I know you can. I believe in you.

[Sneakers]

29 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

Yeah Sneakers is convinced that he has been screwed over and is getting shit on by other posters. I think the latter part of that is pretty obvious given posts like yours. He's got 58 posts (as opposed to your 3.2k). For me, that's not really enough to indicate what he loooves doing. And I'm not sure what posters like him are like, other than some people get pissed off and go on rants.

 

To answer your question: if you're going to troll people, have some self awareness about it. Then try to have some ambition about it. At least try to do something clever. Jumping on a dogpile in a thread where someone is complaining about being abused is lazy, low hanging fruit. Do better. I know you can. I believe in you.

 

I manage large groups of various people every day.

 

I'm not as upset as you might think. 

 

I just recently started using the forums.

But I've always been around silently doing my thing in COH.

 

Most people feel the need to puff themselves up by insulting others because they disagree with them.

Making a post on a video game forum isn't a big deal to me, it's fun.

[Galactron]

23 hours ago, Sneakers said:

 

We do have freedom of speech still.

You absolutely, 100%, do NOT have freedom of speech here on a privately run forum with rules you agreed to upon creating an account.

[Indystruck]

How many of these do we really need at present? Four seems excessive.

[Sanguinesun]

2 hours ago, Sneakers said:

 

Thanks for your and others, elaborate explanations of what three words which need no further explanation "really" means to you.

 

I welcome what others post. 

 

Freedom of speech means you are free to say what you want. 

There is no need to further complicate it. 

If for the purpose of the forum or if the moderators feel like it they will delete a post just as I described. 

 

Thanks for letting me know I am entitled to my own opinions.

In my opinion, it is wrong to try and intimidate or misguide a person from speaking their mind.

 

Others have of course tried to explain the typical freedom of speech waving sentiment that ends up having people ridicule it on forums because in most cases its people's expectations that they can say what ever they want thinking it is linked o some sort of prescriptive rules made by a country or the like.  I'll try to say this in a different way:

 

You are free to say what you wish on forums like here.  Absolutely. 

 

However, you're not free from accountability for what you say.   You are also not free from the opinions of others based on what you say be that for or against (its a two way street on that).

 

So sure, you can for example say something vulgar, make a threat etc as examples, however due to the rules enforced by GM's you'd be held accountable..... up to and including being no longer welcome to post on the forums. That's the agreement you make in participating in that commuinity.

 

And sure you can say something that is unpopular or disliked by others and draw ire and ridicule and they too can conversely receive accountability in the form of said ridicule or condemnations. Pretty much that's the banter of forums, really.

 

I think you understand those differences of course.

 

That said, yes, AE farming is intentionally being (notice this means its going to continue) diminished in its effectivity with an intent to discourage the activity, though it'll be said they're not doing away with farming to misdirect from that intention.

 

As I've also said before, don't let it discourage you.  Let it motivate you to farm more, farm more often and teach others to do the same.  Stream it. Youtube it.  Get others to come to the game to do it.  Help post and find ways for others to improve farming and make sure that information gets out to everyone to make it grow in effectivity.  America's Angel's a good example of how they're showing in the guide section how to make more effective farms and offering builds with graphic, step by step instructions for folks.  That's what you should give more consideration for.     

 

 

 

 

[golstat2003]

17 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

Others have of course tried to explain the typical freedom of speech waving sentiment that ends up having people ridicule it on forums because in most cases its people's expectations that they can say what ever they want thinking it is linked o some sort of prescriptive rules made by a country or the like.  I'll try to say this in a different way:

 

You are free to say what you wish on forums like here.  Absolutely. 

 

However, you're not free from accountability for what you say.   You are also not free from the opinions of others based on what you say be that for or against (its a two way street on that).

 

So sure, you can for example say something vulgar, make a threat etc as examples, however due to the rules enforced by GM's you'd be held accountable..... up to and including being no longer welcome to post on the forums. That's the agreement you make in participating in that commuinity.

 

And sure you can say something that is unpopular or disliked by others and draw ire and ridicule and they too can conversely receive accountability in the form of said ridicule or condemnations. Pretty much that's the banter of forums, really.

 

I think you understand those differences of course.

 

That said, yes, AE farming is intentionally being (notice this means its going to continue) diminished in its effectivity with an intent to discourage the activity, though it'll be said they're not doing away with farming to misdirect from that intention.

 

As I've also said before, don't let it discourage you.  Let it motivate you to farm more, farm more often and teach others to do the same.  Stream it. Youtube it.  Get others to come to the game to do it.  Help post and find ways for others to improve farming and make sure that information gets out to everyone to make it grow in effectivity.  America's Angel's a good example of how they're showing in the guide section how to make more effective farms and offering builds with graphic, step by step instructions for folks.  That's what you should give more consideration for.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also I would say folks need to get away from just using Fire farmers. Doms can farm, Blasters can farm, Corrupters can farm, Tankers can farm. All with farming builds that have nothing to do with Fire Aura or Fire Melee.

 

Folks need to learn to diversify.

[Sneakers]

14 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

 

 

Also I would say folks need to get away from just using Fire farmers. Doms can farm, Blasters can farm, Corrupters can farm, Tankers can farm. All with farming builds that have nothing to do with Fire Aura or Fire Melee.

 

Folks need to learn to diversify.

 

The changes made the game less diverse.