Expand the world in time and place - Egypt/desert maps

[Greycat]

Before I start - Yes. This equals a lot of work which I'm not sure we have the tools to do, or do easily.  That said:

 

We already go back to ancient Rome. Let us go back farther to ancient Egypt.

 

There's already plenty of reason to do so (aside from just a new environment, which would also lead to more base building pieces to play with.)

 

1. Kheldian-wise, Shadowstar has been here since Ancient Egypt. A little exploration back there might be fun.

 

2. Magic-character wise, Nectembo - remember him? Name's on a bunch of standard enhancements? - was in Ancient Egypt. Ancient Egypt and magic tend to go hand in hand. Lots of story potential back there. As well as modern times with stolen artefacts, lost tombs and the like.

 

3. Yes, I'm going to go on about the Blood of the Black Stream. There are several bits of lore pointing to them already. Mr. Bocor (as I recall) mentioning Gadzul Oil. Oh, and go redside and look for the sinking tanker in Port Oakes. Float up. See that oil slick? Look carefully. Eye of Horus... because of Gadzul and the BotBS, a sort of tech/magic group. I *know* we aren't getting what they originally were - a shapeshifting EAT. That's even *more* work (much as I would like to see it.) But c'mon... new enemy groups to fight against (and with,) plenty of possibility for arcs from 1-50 and task forces and the like!

 

4. Just making the world as a *whole* feel larger. And, yes, there's reason (if done *well*) to have both Arachnos and heroic representatives there without wondering why the Isles haven't been slapped down due to *invading the US.* Granted, this more overt presence would probably be more of a "Modern Egypt," but still.

 

5. We have mummies, but we don't have Egypt? C'mon...

 

6. And this is just the esoteric-game-history side of me... a player on live won a contest (not me) and had *their* character, ancient-egypt-based Ahnek Rah-zul, turned into a CCG card - and, yes, had their story changed slightly to fit the BotBS. Don't know if that player's here or even alive - it's been 17 years - but it'd be nice to give them that little bit of payoff, hmm?

[Ruin Mage]

As someone who RPs an immortal mage from Egypt? My [redacted] is HARD.

LETS GOOOOOOO.

[Rudra]

It would be nice for my ninja/dark MM to get back to her roots and visit ancient Egypt....

 

(Yes, she's from ancient Egypt. She is a ninja/dark MM because Thugs didn't exist at the time and Mercenaries are no the correct approach for pets for the character. [And I kept her ninja on HC because that is what she was played as since CoV launched.] So I had to modify her a little to get the ninjas to work.)

 

Question is: what would be the ancient Egypt story line? Cimerora is the Nictus, but I see no references in the game that would lead to them also affecting ancient Egypt too.

[El D]

I'm here for this. Could absolutely work as a cool task force where the player teams up with Nectanebo and the moon cult priestess that Shadowstar bonded with in that time period while escaping the Nictus. That bit alone would make a nice direct contrast to Cimerora - working with the sole (at the time) 'good Nictus' vs fighting against an army of evil space invaders.

 

I'm curious as to who the conflict would be against, though. The Blood of the Black Stream could definitely work given they were there and the touches in the game's background gives something to expand on. Could possibly involve an ancient cabal of Mu wizards, too. The modern Mu can't be the only time they've amassed groups of red lightning Hequat cultists throughout the entirety of human history... Really, anything that doesn't involve the villain group also traveling back in time to screw around with things like with the 5th Column, I'd be happy with. The Banished Pantheon were around then too, but they've got Dark Astoria (and parts of Cimerora) as their whole thing already.

 

I also wouldn't mind some actual Mender involvement this time around. They're the Time Travel Guys, so it makes sense that they'd be involved. Hell, given the time period we could even team up with Prometheus and see if the giant toga-wearing smurf can actually back up all the smacktalk he gives in the incarnate briefings.

[Glacier Peak]

The sand textures are there already, plenty of beaches in the game. That's basically Egypt - then you'll need a big river and some date trees.

 

Everything else can be reused textures I'd wager. 

[Rudra]

I think the Mu-Circle War was prior to ancient Egypt. So by that time, the Mu would have been broken and scattered, their surviving bloodlines mingling with other people, but lacking any real centric power or ability to project force. The Circle's failure to uphold their bargain also means that they would not be notable force during that time period either, as they had been broken into disembodied wraiths fleeing the vengeful demons.

 

Edit: Huh. Here's a thought. According to the Origin of Power arc red side, there were 6 origins, but 1 was wiped out. An ancient Egypt zone could delve into that.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Rudra

[Glacier Peak]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I think the Mu-Circle War was prior to ancient Egypt. So by that time, the Mu would have been broken and scattered, their surviving bloodlines mingling with other people, but lacking any real centric power or ability to project force. The Circle's failure to uphold their bargain also means that they would not be notable force during that time period either, as they had been broken into disembodied wraiths fleeing the vengeful demons.

 

Edit: Huh. Here's a thought. According to the Origin of Power arc red side, there were 6 origins, but 1 was wiped out. An ancient Egypt zone could delve into that.

Thought they were referring to Incarnates in that arc...?

[Greycat]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Edit: Huh. Here's a thought. According to the Origin of Power arc red side, there were 6 origins, but 1 was wiped out. An ancient Egypt zone could delve into that.

 

I'm ... 87% sure that was incarnates. Or tied to them and/or the well. Could be wrong.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Question is: what would be the ancient Egypt story line? Cimerora is the Nictus, but I see no references in the game that would lead to them also affecting ancient Egypt too.

 

There are a number of possibilities.

 

As mentioned, (1) Shadowstar was active in Ancient Egypt. Though she was, as I'm recalling, a Nictus agent at the time - need to double check that, but I believe that was mentioned in one of the AMAs. Seeing her turn to being what we now call a Warshade might be very interesting.  (2) Yes, Blood of the Black Stream. Ties to both ancient Egypt and the modern world. (3) Nectambo.  We don't have a lot on him, as I'm recalling, so it's fairly wide open. And of course, (4) with all the tombs, mummies, magic interest, etc. plenty of one shots, repeatables, short arcs and the like are possible. And if we need to jump back and forth between modern and ancient Egypt? We already do that with Cimerora, so ... precedent for starting something in one time, finishing in another.

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Thought they were referring to Incarnates in that arc...?

 

19 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I'm ... 87% sure that was incarnates. Or tied to them and/or the well. Could be wrong.

*shrug* The clue isn't listed on paragonwiki and I'm not in the mission or have immediate access to it right now to find the clue and look up what the word on it means. If it does refer to incarnates? Then the question becomes why was it crossed off on the tablet when it is still around. Were incarnates wiped out in ancient times and believed gone forever? If so, how and why? So even if the tablet does refer to incarnates (which I still intend to find the word and its meaning eventually), then it still leaves available plot points to address.

 

Not saying those are the only options, just a thought that came to mind.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to correct punctuation.

[Luminara]

Yes.

 

Do this.

 

Take me to Amarna.  Show me Hatshepsut's mortuary temple.  Let me stand next to Khufu's pyramid.  Drop me in the middle of Seti I's wars.  Send me to Duat.

 

Anything.  I'll take anything I can get.

[Greycat]

23 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

*shrug* The clue isn't listed on paragonwiki and I'm not in the mission or have immediate access to it right now to find the clue and look up what the word on it means. If it does refer to incarnates? Then the question becomes why was it crossed off on the tablet when it is still around. Were incarnates wiped out in ancient times and believed gone forever? If so, how and why? So even if the tablet does refer to incarnates (which I still intend to find the word and its meaning eventually), then it still leaves available plot points to address.

 

Incarnates have come and gone. The Well - and this is buried in lore, I want to say in the novels - used to be depicted as... essentially Pandora's box in a sense, slowly collecting potential for humanity and releasing it from time to time, where we'd have explosions of superbeings/"gods/demigods" and the like. (I *want* to say the Renaissance would be an example.)

 

Yes, at the end of Cimerora, Incarnates are gone, so they'd be crossed off as an origin. Darrin Wade refers to this in the SSA arc where he kills Statesman - same method, same place (IIRC.)

 

(And other bit of interest - Incarnates were *supposed* to be another EAT way back when, along with Avilians and Coralax. And, of course, Blood of the Black Stream.)

 

And you're looking for a definition of Incarnate?

- Invested with bodily (usually human) nature and form.

- Made manifest and comprehensible. Embodied.

Verb forms being basically "to give form to."

So an Incarnate would be giving form (in game) to the potential and power the Well represents. Can't say "ultimate" power, as we were being aimed at Ascended (I believe was Prometheus's category) and more beyond that with the "NCSoft only understands and wants grind, shoehorn it into the game" incarnate-and-beyond trees.

[Rudra]

35 minutes ago, Greycat said:

And you're looking for a definition of Incarnate?

- Invested with bodily (usually human) nature and form.

- Made manifest and comprehensible. Embodied.

Verb forms being basically "to give form to."

So an Incarnate would be giving form (in game) to the potential and power the Well represents. Can't say "ultimate" power, as we were being aimed at Ascended (I believe was Prometheus's category) and more beyond that with the "NCSoft only understands and wants grind, shoehorn it into the game" incarnate-and-beyond trees.

No no no. I appreciate the effort, but that is not the word meaning I want to look up. On the tablet in the Origin of Power arc that lists 6 origins with 1 crossed off, there is a word for the crossed off origin. It isn't incarnate. It may mean incarnate, but that is what I will be looking up next time I get to that tablet.

 

35 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Yes, at the end of Cimerora, Incarnates are gone, so they'd be crossed off as an origin. Darrin Wade refers to this in the SSA arc where he kills Statesman - same method, same place (IIRC.)

I forgot that, thanks.

 

Edit: Nevermind. Just went through the arc. Either it is in a different arc, the tablets were changed so that clue does not come up any more. or my memory is faulty. No tablet in the Origin of Power arc refers to 6 origins with 1 crossed off. I just finished clicking all of them. ... was it a Cimerora mission that had the tablet then?

Edited October 29, 2022 by Rudra

[Rudra]

Okay, found it. It's in Darrin Wade's Midnight Draws Near arc. The word is Caelestis and basically means heavenly or divine. So... yeah... basically incarnate. My apologies.

[battlewraith]

Yes, I think in terms of locales this one is a no-brainer. Would fit well with coh lore and offer a lot of creative possibilities. I would also like to some more eldritch/Lovecraftian themed content in the game and this would be a good bridge to that--maybe some of those old ruins in the deep desert aren't human in origin.

[srmalloy]

And everyone who's saying this needs to be done has just volunteered to be the HC support staff doing all the work of creating the zones, the mobs, the items, the animations, and any new powers for the new content.

[TheZag]

Im down for more content but it would be a small desert if it was a single zone.  It would probably need to be like zoning across praetoria with the desert spanning 3 zones.  Then there could be a desert between the the major landmarks instead of a sandbox.

 

[Luminara]

9 minutes ago, TheZag said:

Im down for more content but it would be a small desert if it was a single zone.  It would probably need to be like zoning across praetoria with the desert spanning 3 zones.  Then there could be a desert between the the major landmarks instead of a sandbox.

 

Ancient Egyptians didn't populate the desert.  They lived along the banks of the Nile and the Nile delta, where the water, arable soil and food were.  Cities were built farther away from the Nile, out of the flood region, so vital farm land wasn't wasted, but not so far out that there was nothing but desert around them.  Even their monuments had to be relatively close to the river, as they used canals to move the stone.

 

Think... Salamanca, without the Firbolg, Tuatha, spirits or witches, and a brilliant blue sky overhead.  Replace the buildings with more rudimentary dwellings, paint the trees green, dig some canals from the river (which would have to be raised to the current ground level) and put a lot of crops (not pumpkins, but those could be colored differently, as gourds have been part of almost every civilization's diet for millennia) in the farming plots, and you have a good rough-out for an ancient Egyptian zone.  Details could be added later, like statuary, a temple, a dam, but the basics are already in place, they just need a little adjustment to fit the theme.

[Greycat]

7 hours ago, srmalloy said:

And everyone who's saying this needs to be done has just volunteered to be the HC support staff doing all the work of creating the zones, the mobs, the items, the animations, and any new powers for the new content.

 

*Ahem*

 

On 10/28/2022 at 4:12 PM, Greycat said:

Before I start - Yes. This equals a lot of work which I'm not sure we have the tools to do, or do easily. 

 

Like... very first two sentences?  I'm not sure why "This would be work" needs to be pointed out. Everyone seems aware of that.

[Yaliw]

This would be significant work. It's never as easy as just plopping a few assets around and calling it a day. Testing for glitches in terrain alone is a nightmare.

 

If there were to be new zones, we'd need a dedicated team to work on them first. 

 

And if we're making new zones then we need to have a long, serious talk about the future of the story. Any new zone has to fit into the story. I like the Egypt idea. It doesn't further the story, it acts tangential and is rather unique.

 

We'd need modelers for Egypt themed things as well.

 

I dunno... its a great setting idea but the task would be monumental and if it were to be taken on, a huge amount of energy and dedication would be needed. No offense to the current dev team but I'm sure they know this; making content from scratch is always harder than it looks.

[twozerofoxtrot]

I'm in as long as we're doing Stargate references with the Rikti.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Yaliw said:

I dunno... its a great setting idea but the task would be monumental and if it were to be taken on, a huge amount of energy and dedication would be needed.

And this is why I regard the posts in the Suggestions subforum that blithely talk about how great it would be if [insert half-thought-out idea that would require significant effort from a full development team] with a jaundiced eye; for everything the HC staff has done, they don't have the resources that Paragon Studios had, and working on CoH isn't their paying job. Stretching what's already there is one thing, but fabricating large amounts of content out of whole cloth is another.

[BrandX]

On 10/28/2022 at 3:12 PM, Greycat said:

Before I start - Yes. This equals a lot of work which I'm not sure we have the tools to do, or do easily.  That said:

 

We already go back to ancient Rome. Let us go back farther to ancient Egypt.

 

There's already plenty of reason to do so (aside from just a new environment, which would also lead to more base building pieces to play with.)

 

1. Kheldian-wise, Shadowstar has been here since Ancient Egypt. A little exploration back there might be fun.

 

2. Magic-character wise, Nectembo - remember him? Name's on a bunch of standard enhancements? - was in Ancient Egypt. Ancient Egypt and magic tend to go hand in hand. Lots of story potential back there. As well as modern times with stolen artefacts, lost tombs and the like.

 

3. Yes, I'm going to go on about the Blood of the Black Stream. There are several bits of lore pointing to them already. Mr. Bocor (as I recall) mentioning Gadzul Oil. Oh, and go redside and look for the sinking tanker in Port Oakes. Float up. See that oil slick? Look carefully. Eye of Horus... because of Gadzul and the BotBS, a sort of tech/magic group. I *know* we aren't getting what they originally were - a shapeshifting EAT. That's even *more* work (much as I would like to see it.) But c'mon... new enemy groups to fight against (and with,) plenty of possibility for arcs from 1-50 and task forces and the like!

 

4. Just making the world as a *whole* feel larger. And, yes, there's reason (if done *well*) to have both Arachnos and heroic representatives there without wondering why the Isles haven't been slapped down due to *invading the US.* Granted, this more overt presence would probably be more of a "Modern Egypt," but still.

 

5. We have mummies, but we don't have Egypt? C'mon...

 

6. And this is just the esoteric-game-history side of me... a player on live won a contest (not me) and had *their* character, ancient-egypt-based Ahnek Rah-zul, turned into a CCG card - and, yes, had their story changed slightly to fit the BotBS. Don't know if that player's here or even alive - it's been 17 years - but it'd be nice to give them that little bit of payoff, hmm?

 

I have a few characters (including new main) that have a parent from Egypt (or born there), so I like this idea. 🙂

[JasperStone]

On 10/30/2022 at 7:05 PM, twozerofoxtrot said:

I'm in as long as we're doing Stargate references with the Rikti.

This.

Maybe a half-buried Stargate in a far corner of the map

[Jiro Ito]

Could always use AE and write it yourself!

[Rudra]

No suitable maps in AE.