Why doesn't Regeneration get more debuff protections?

[MirrorDarkly]

So one things I've noticed is that compared to most other defensive sets Regeneration gets almost no resistance to debuffs.  Compare it to SR which gets almost complete immunity to defense reduction and 40% resistance to slows for good measure.  Or Invulnerability which gets defense, slow, endurance and recovery resistances, etc...

 

Shouldn't, at minimum, Regeneration be as resistant to Regen/Heal debuffs as SR is to defense reduction since if anything Regen is more dependent on returning health than SR is on avoiding attacks (SR getting its scaling damage resistance as your health drops)?  And really more like a resist set because, just like them, they will be hit by a lot of debuffs SR or another defense set would avoid?

 

You could point to Willpower as another heal based set that doesn't get much debuff protection but again I ask, is there a reason for that?  It's not like either set makes for the hardest to kill character possible or like adds *anything* to your offense.  Unlike say Rad which gets; really good damage resistance (can be raised to at or near cap for most damage types), self healing, lots of absorb, (the effectiveness of both being increased by the aforementioned high damage resistance), easy endurance management, + Recharge, + damage, and an extra AoE attack for good measure.

 

And yes I know I could just use Rad armor, but this is more about trying to understand how the sets are balanced and why they are/were considered  roughly equal by the developers. 

[biostem]

Dumb question - is there such a thing a -regen resistance?

[Rudra]

Closest thing to it would be having unresistable regeneration. There is no -regen resistance in the game.

[Major_Decoy]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

Dumb question - is there such a thing a -regen resistance?

Yes, it's in a few powers in radiation armour.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.radiation_armor.radiation_therapy&at=tanker

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.radiation_armor.gamma_boost&at=tanker

Edited January 20, 2023 by Major_Decoy

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

Yes, it's in a few powers in radiation armour.

Gotcha.  What's weird, is the Homecoming WiKi says:

 

Radiation Therapy

8

16

PBAoE, Minor DMG(Energy), Minor DoT(Toxic), Foe -Regen, Self +HP, +End, Res(-Regen) (except Tanker)

 

Either way, since that is the case, then, yes, regen should get -regen resistance in spades...

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

Yes, it's in a few powers in radiation armour.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.radiation_armor.radiation_therapy&at=tanker

That's a new one on me. Thanks. Does only rad armor have this?

[MirrorDarkly]

16 minutes ago, biostem said:

Dumb question - is there such a thing a -regen resistance?

 

Yes, regen (and some other sets) gets some:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.regeneration.fast_healing&at=scrapper

 

But not a lot, also I don't think it applies to self healing such as reconstruction. 

Edit: And Regen actually has very poor +regeneration outside of Instant Healing*, ironically enough, so I would argue resistance to heal debuffs might be more important than resistance to regen debuffs.

 

*Not Sentinels 

Edited January 20, 2023 by MirrorDarkly

[Major_Decoy]

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.willpower.fast_healing&at=tanker

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=brute_defense.regeneration.fast_healing&at=brute

[MirrorDarkly]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

That's a new one on me. Thanks. Does only rad armor have this?

 

Yes under gama-boost, along with 86.5% Resistance (Endurance, Recovery).

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.radiation_armor.gamma_boost&at=tanker

[Captain Fabulous]

Honestly, Regeneration is in really poor shape and desperately needs a balance pass. It's a shadow of its former glory.

[MirrorDarkly]

1 minute ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Honestly, Regeneration is in really poor shape and desperately needs a balance pass. It's a shadow of its former glory.

 

Yes I do agree... but the lack of debuff protection really stuck out to me considering all the hits it takes.

[Vanden]

It sounds like you guys are talking about buffing regen.

 

[kelika2]

Because even with max 10%/tick regeneration, it still takes 10 seconds to fully heal.  you will get burst down in most max level/higher level than you cases.  having debuff resistance wont help much.  there is a much deeper mechanical issue here for regen that adding more resistance regen debuff to wont do much and the second biggest problem is that people take set names way too seriously to the point where it hinders development and/or community ideas that may get hurdled over someday.

 

Did the world crumble when SUPER REFLEXES get some scaling damage resist and absorption?

Did reality start to warp when Invul got a bit of psi def/resist?

 

[BrandX]

On 1/20/2023 at 6:05 PM, kelika2 said:

Because even with max 10%/tick regeneration, it still takes 10 seconds to fully heal.  you will get burst down in most max level/higher level than you cases.  having debuff resistance wont help much.  there is a much deeper mechanical issue here for regen that adding more resistance regen debuff to wont do much and the second biggest problem is that people take set names way too seriously to the point where it hinders development and/or community ideas that may get hurdled over someday.

 

Did the world crumble when SUPER REFLEXES get some scaling damage resist and absorption?

Did reality start to warp when Invul got a bit of psi def/resist?

 

 

I don't recall SR getting Absorption, was it sentinel version that I believe lacks Mez protection for it?  

 

I thought Regen getting some debuff protection could maybe work for it.  Lots of DDR for instance, but then they have to build up that defense through other powers and IOs.

[kelika2]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

I don't recall SR getting Absorption, was it sentinel version that I believe lacks Mez protection for it? 

They give up mez protection magnitude.  taking the absorb moves mez prot to the toggles.  mag4-5.  its been awhile

[aethereal]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:05 PM, kelika2 said:

Because even with max 10%/tick regeneration, it still takes 10 seconds to fully heal.  you will get burst down in most max level/higher level than you cases.  having debuff resistance wont help much.  there is a much deeper mechanical issue here for regen that adding more resistance regen debuff to wont do much

 

I agree, regeneration debuff resistance isn't regeneration's only or even main problem.

 

On 1/20/2023 at 5:05 PM, kelika2 said:

and the second biggest problem is that people take set names way too seriously to the point where it hinders development and/or community ideas that may get hurdled over someday.

 

Yeah, man, I wish people would take one step closer than just looking at the set name.  If your regen is floored in Regen, you still have Reconstruction, Dull Pain, and Moment of Glory to mitigate damage.  (And Revive to stand you up again, hopefully sans debuffs, if you fall).

 

If Regen has a debuff resistance that it badly needs, it's Slow Resistance, but even that isn't its only or even main problem.

Edited January 22, 2023 by aethereal

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

 

I agree, regeneration debuff resistance isn't regeneration's only or even main problem.

 

 

Yeah, man, I wish people would take one step closer than just looking at the set name.  If your regen is floored in Regen, you still have Reconstruction, Dull Pain, and Moment of Glory to mitigate damage.  (And Revive to stand you up again, hopefully sans debuffs, if you fall).

 

If Regen has a debuff resistance that it badly needs, it's Slow Resistance, but even that isn't its only or even main problem.

 

I missed that on the SR!  O.O  I will have to respec my Sentinel.

[ninja surprise]

It's a common theme, make Regen immune to debuffs like slow, end drain, and -regen.  

But regen is already OP so not likely.

[BrandX]

5 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

It's a common theme, make Regen immune to debuffs like slow, end drain, and -regen.  

But regen is already OP so not likely.

 

I have not felt Regen to be OP compared to any others when running TFs and Trials.