Bicentennial?

[Skyhawke]

I've been away from the game for a bit, but recently started playing again and when I swung by Blue Steel, I noticed something on the big coin we've all seen a thousand times. Paragon CIty was established in 1823. Soooo, this year would be it's bicentennial, right? Kinda cool. 

 

[Shenanigunner]

Nice catch. And great idea, even though we're getting to it late.

 

We need to unearth or choose an anniversary date. (Providence won't do; founded in 1636...)

[Scarlet Shocker]

Good find!  Party time!

[Mjolnerd]

42 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

We need to unearth or choose an anniversary date. (Providence won't do; founded in 1636...)

 

Oddly enough, there doesn't seem to be a specific date listed. Not that I could find, anyway. I'd propose establishing April 28th.

[0th Power]

Bicentennial would be a great name for this year's anniversary badge.

[Skyhawke]

15 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

 

Oddly enough, there doesn't seem to be a specific date listed. Not that I could find, anyway. I'd propose establishing April 28th.

 

Aaaand April 28th is a Friday. Who doesn't like celebrating on a Friday?

[Marine X]

Great Find and Ideas, that's a one time opportunity for a Badge to connect to the real world and Bicentennial would be a great Badge Name. 

[Scarlet Shocker]

I have gin. I iz reddy

[srmalloy]

6 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I have gin. I iz reddy

Have some Madeira, my dear...

[Clave Dark 5]

"Considering the history of America, how was a major city on the eats coast not founded like a hundred years earlier, if not even further back?"

 

Hey man, don't question the big coin, the big coin don't lie."

[Skyhawke]

37 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

"Considering the history of America, how was a major city on the eats coast not founded like a hundred years earlier, if not even further back?"

 

Hey man, don't question the big coin, the big coin don't lie."

 

Probably having Orenbaga underneath kept the superstitious folks of the time off the area. What I really want to know is how crazy/brave were Paragon's founders? They rolled up, saw wizards and monsters and said "Yep, this is where we'll put the General Store."

[biostem]

Maybe there was another city prior to Paragon City, upon whose remains it was built, to make that 1823 date make more sense...

[Mjolnerd]

2 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

"Considering the history of America, how was a major city on the eats coast not founded like a hundred years earlier, if not even further back?"

 

1823 actually places it pretty close to the founding dates of Columbus, Ohio (1812); Tampa, Florida (1823); and Syracuse, New York (1825). Of course, just because that's when the city was incorporated doesn't mean there was nothing there before that time -- a lot of major North American cities (Chicago, Memphis, Calgary) began at forts or military outposts.

 

It's also probably worth mentioning that large cities do occasionally spring up long after the region where they're located has already been settled and developed: Las Vegas, Nevada and Anchorage, Alaska were both founded in the 20th century. Brasília, the national capital of Brazil, was established in 1960. Cancún, Mexico didn't exist until 1970 -- there's a good chance there's someone reading this thread that's older than it is!

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Mjolnerd

[Doc_Scorpion]

2 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

1823 actually places it pretty close to the founding dates of Columbus, Ohio (1812); Tampa, Florida (1823); and Syracuse, New York (1825). Of course, just because that's when the city was incorporated doesn't mean there was nothing there before that time -- a lot of major North American cities (Chicago, Memphis, Calgary) began at forts or military outposts.

Except for Tampa, none of your examples meet the key criteria in Clave's post - they're not on the East Coast, which was settled early and thickly.  (And Tampa is a backwater that's "East Coast" only by courtesy.)  More accurate comparisons would be: Boston (1630), Providence RI (1636), New York (1624), Philadelphia (1681, with precursors 40 years earlier), Baltimore (1729, with precursors running back to 1706), Norfolk (1705, with precursors running back almost 50 years)...

Paragon City, located in Rhode Island is very much the odd man out.  (Though the canon timeline does establish that Paragon City was the result of the consolidation of existing settlements, their founding dates are not established.  That consolidation is also something of an oddity in that era.)

[Scarlet Shocker]

It is entirely possible that:

 

a) Paragon City was effectively extant way before this date but was renamed Paragon for some as yet unexplained reason (There are no Lore plaques to confirm or deny this.)

 

b) Paragon was formed on the site of a nexus where Magic, Science, and strange phenomenon appeared - where monsters and people flocked to discover new forms of power - and where there are people there are more people in the form of traders, service providers, farmers and transports.

 

c) We should perhaps not stress too much about the exact date that a fictional city that doesn't actually exist wasn't actually founded

[Mjolnerd]

12 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Except for Tampa, none of your examples meet the key criteria in Clave's post - they're not on the East Coast, which was settled early and thickly.  (And Tampa is a backwater that's "East Coast" only by courtesy.)  More accurate comparisons would be: Boston (1630), Providence RI (1636), New York (1624), Philadelphia (1681, with precursors 40 years earlier), Baltimore (1729, with precursors running back to 1706), Norfolk (1705, with precursors running back almost 50 years)...

Paragon City, located in Rhode Island is very much the odd man out.  (Though the canon timeline does establish that Paragon City was the result of the consolidation of existing settlements, their founding dates are not established.  That consolidation is also something of an oddity in that era.)

 

Sigh.

 

Right, I didn't realize we were using the term "east coast" to mean "literally sitting on the coastline" and not "in the general eastern coastal region of the United States which is typically referred to as the 'east coast' even if the particular town in question doesn't actually physically touch the Atlantic."

 

Columbus and Syracuse aren't coastal cities, but are certainly located in the general region of "the east coast."

Tampa is, if anything, an outlier because being in Florida might mark it as part of "the South" and not "the east coast" as it's typically referred to, which is often used as a shorthand for roughly the Washington, DC/Baltimore area and north through New England. (But that's assuming, of course, that it must be placed in one and only one of those two boxes, which we probably shouldn't do here.)

 

Any other cities mentioned -- Chicago, Las Vegas, and so on -- were included as examples of other phenomena, such as settlements existing as military installations before their incorporation as towns, or being established in the relatively-recent past. Supporting arguments to the original point, not a repetition of it.

Anyway, Atlantic City, New Jersey was founded in 1854.

Orlando, Florida was settled in 1843 but not incorporated as the Town of Orlando until 1873, though it's 60 entire miles from there to the nearest beach, so I suppose it doesn't count here.

 

If we're done splitting hairs, I think the point of my previous post remains valid: While unusual, it's not unheard of for large cities to appear decades or even centuries after the region in which they are located has already been settled and developed, and there are several real-world instances of that happening within the geographic area in which Paragon City is said to be located. It happens. It's a thing. The date on the giant coin, while it does point to some relatively rare circumstance or set of circumstances, it one that, in the context of the growth of America's eastern seaboard, could absolutely be plausible.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Mjolnerd said:

Orlando, Florida was settled in 1843 but not incorporated as the Town of Orlando until 1873

 

This.

 

It is more plausible 1823 is the "incorporation" date of Paragon City.  Founding dates tend to be more informal.  They might denote when settlers first built homes there or when they first named the place.  Incorporation is when a local government is formally established.

 

The most populous city in Rhode Island is Providence.  It was founded in 1623 but not formally incorporated as a city until 1831.  

 

[SeraphimKensai]

20 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

"Considering the history of America, how was a major city on the eats coast not founded like a hundred years earlier, if not even further back?"

 

Hey man, don't question the big coin, the big coin don't lie."

So I've a bit of a career in the public sector and cities can incorporate as a charter city or home rule city depending on State law. I'm not from Rhode Island, but typically the land starts as a Township, Section, and Range and a group of people would incorporate with the idea of shared services (typically emergency services, schools, roads, etc.) and create a funding source for that depending on their charter whether through property taxes, tax increment financing districts, central utilities (water/sewer), city sales taxes, or some combination thereof.

 

The city would then create a comprehensive plan to guide the city and codify it's Code of Ordinances.

 

The city I live in was founded in 1999 due to a needed response from a string of wildfire, but was starting to develop as a township for about 20 years prior to that. Fast forward to today, and the city population is an estimated 100,000 people.

 

Given Paragon City it's entirely possible an event occured to charter the city in 1823.

 

Sorry for the somewhat long post, I geek out a bit on this stuff.

Edited February 9, 2023 by SeraphimKensai

[DoctorDitko]

Civics lesson badge unlocked!

(My city claims to have been founded in 1737, which is laughably young compared to almost any city in Europe. Betcha anything they'll throw a hell of a hootenanny in 2037, though.)

 

I agree we should absolutely do something fun for Paragon's 200th!

[Scarlet Shocker]

Has anyone rolled up a Bicentennial Man yet? What kind of AT would that be? Probably a Tech/Clockworky type thing

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Has anyone rolled up a Bicentennial Man yet? What kind of AT would that be? Probably a Tech/Clockworky type thing

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

49 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

 

 

 

No sharks were jumped but 3rd law was busted wide open

[biostem]

5 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Has anyone rolled up a Bicentennial Man yet?

It'd be cool, (assuming you weren't directly referring to the movie others mentioned), if said "Bicentennial Man" was some sort of animated bronze statue from the era, in which case an invuln/ss tanker would work...

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

It'd be cool, (assuming you weren't directly referring to the movie others mentioned), if said "Bicentennial Man" was some sort of animated bronze statue from the era, in which case an invuln/ss tanker would work...

 

 

Mary MacComber cursed one of the original settlers of Paragon to return and wreak havoc every century - when you get to the Millennial Man you get a badge you can keep

[Skyhawke]

22 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Has anyone rolled up a Bicentennial Man yet? What kind of AT would that be? Probably a Tech/Clockworky type thing

Meet Bicentennial Man, Magic WP/SS Tanker. Modeled after what men wore in the 1820s.