Enhancement set category disappears from a power ?

[MrZork]

Dumb newb question, I am sure: Do enhancement set categories get removed from powers on characters who already have that set slotted for the power?

 

I just respecced a PC after deciding I wanted to grab Tactics earlier to help prevent being blinded by Captain Stone in the Admiral Sutter TF. Before the respec, my Dark/Radiation brute had Beta Decay fully slotted with Analyze Weakness. But, I could not repopulate the slots with that set during the respec and now after. And, now I notice that the whole Accurate Defense Debuff set category is gone from Beta Decay (Defense Debuff is still there).

 

I guess I am just asking if this is some glitch that I should try to fix somehow, or did the set category just get removed from that power?

[Snarky]

The only thing i could think that would cause that is a rework of a power ( damned rare) and when you respec you hit the issue

 

I am unfamiliar with that set or any changes to it. I will poke around 

 

that set would never go in beta decay.  It is a Accurate Defense Debuff.  Beta Decay only accepts pure Defense Debuff sets

 

that set would go in Ground Zero.  Are you sure that us not where it came from?

Edited April 25, 2023 by Snarky

[MrZork]

I am certain Beta Decay was fully slotted with Analyze Weakness. I took a video with my phone to help recall where the various enhancements should go after the respec.

 

 

Any suggestions on a replacement enhancement set (at level 49)? Analyze Weakness was actually pretty good. I am not seeing much in the Defense Debuff and ToHit Debuff sets.

Edited April 25, 2023 by MrZork

[UltraAlt]

As the game changes, there are - at some points - IO set categories that are removed from powers.

Most notability that I can remember recently is some of the mastermind powers.

When a category of IO sets are removed from a power, any IO enhancements of that set are already slotted no longer give benefit to the power.

 

I'm not sure about the set and power you are talking about in particular. I would do a search for the power name in the patch notes forum.

[MrZork]

BTW, I think that Beta Decay needs a To Hit roll to affect enemies. Enhancing accuracy is pretty useful for that power. Losing the Accurate {Defense Debuff / ToHit Debuff} sets is unfortunate.

[MrZork]

Good call. From the July 12th, 2022 Patch Notes:

Quote

• All/Radiation Armor/Beta Decay: Removed the ability to slot Accurate ToHit Debuff and Accurate Defense Debuff sets. This power is auto-hit and never should have accepted these IO sets.

I must have had that power fully slotted for quite a while. The PC was only in the upper 30s until a few weeks ago.

[Snarky]

23 minutes ago, MrZork said:

Good call. From the July 12th, 2022 Patch Notes:

I must have had that power fully slotted for quite a while. The PC was only in the upper 30s until a few weeks ago.

Good research skills there.  *fancy bow, flourish of cape

[Parabola]

In general defence debuff isn't considered hugely worth slotting for. Most people build with plenty of accuracy and to-hit for normal situations, and in teams there is often some tactics running somewhere. For those situations where defence debuff might be considered useful, enemy pops a tier 9 for example, you would need so much defence debuff to make a dent that it's not really practical.

 

I'd consider whether those slots could be more gainfully used elsewhere. My default beta decay slotting is simply an Achilles heel proc in the base slot.

[KC4800]

You might be able to use a hami to sneak some acc into that power. (Lysosome)

Edited April 25, 2023 by KC4800

[Parabola]

51 minutes ago, KC4800 said:

You might be able to use a hami to sneak some acc into that power. (Lysosome)

It wouldn't do anything - beta decay is auto hit. Hence the change they made.

[High_Beam]

Sometimes the removal of a function doesn't make sense.  A bit back the Devs took out the Accurate ToHit DeBuff component of Throw Sand in Martial Combat (Blasters) but left the stun.  Stupid really since sand in the eyes would reduce your ability to see, not stun you.  Anyway I had the Cloud Senses Chance for negative energy slotted there.  When I went to test and respec'd the character I could no longer slot it in, so I decided not to respec because the PROC is still firing even though its not supposed to be there.  It was also in the patch notes but that doesn't change the fact that it sucked.

[Uun]

Beta Decay also accepts tohit debuff sets. The base -tohit value isn't very high, but probably more worthwhile than slotting for -def. If you're going to slot an HO, what you want is an Enzyme (-tohit/-def/endred).

[Yomo Kimyata]

3 hours ago, Parabola said:

It wouldn't do anything - beta decay is auto hit. Hence the change they made.

 

It's auto-hit, but if you have damage procs in there, they do an accuracy check.  Would the lyso's accuracy affect that?  Me dunno.

[Parabola]

Just now, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

It's auto-hit, but if you have damage procs in there, they do an accuracy check.  Would the lyso's accuracy affect that?  Me dunno.

Huh ... interesting. Presumably the power is flagged to ignore accuracy so maybe not? But then again what on earth is the mechanism for a proc to make a to-hit check entirely independently of their host power? Is it affected by global accuracy and to-hit bonuses I wonder?

[ZemX]

3 minutes ago, Parabola said:

Huh ... interesting. Presumably the power is flagged to ignore accuracy so maybe not? But then again what on earth is the mechanism for a proc to make a to-hit check entirely independently of their host power? Is it affected by global accuracy and to-hit bonuses I wonder?

 

You can see which procs do this in City of Data.  e.g. Tankers and Brutes could slot this in Beta Decay:

 

The "@ToHitRoll" there is presumably just telling the game engine to roll for a hit.  I would think this works like anything else and takes into account all global acc, toHit buffs, and accuracy in the power.

 

That said I vaguely recall some sort of exploit or other that once existed for Hamidon multi-aspect IOs enhancing things they shouldn't be allowed to and that it was eventually addressed somehow.  Anybody remember the detail on that?

[TheZag]

21 minutes ago, ZemX said:

That said I vaguely recall some sort of exploit or other that once existed for Hamidon multi-aspect IOs enhancing things they shouldn't be allowed to and that it was eventually addressed somehow.  Anybody remember the detail on that?

 

I think it was along the lines of slotting a +damage hami-o in a resist power and getting a full 33% enhancement instead of the much lower value from a resist enhancement.

 

[Ironblade]

10 hours ago, MrZork said:

I guess I am just asking if this is some glitch that I should try to fix somehow, or did the set category just get removed from that power?

Not a glitch.  They changed what sets the power will accept.

 

10 hours ago, Snarky said:

that set would never go in beta decay.  It is a Accurate Defense Debuff.  Beta Decay only accepts pure Defense Debuff sets

 

that set would go in Ground Zero.  Are you sure that us not where it came from?

Sorry, but you're wrong El Snarkmeister.

I have the Analyze Weakness set slotted in Beta Decay RIGHT NOW.  And I have a note in red text on my spreadsheet that they changed what the power accepts so I can't respec if I want to keep that set slotted.

[Snarky]

1 minute ago, Ironblade said:

Not a glitch.  They changed what sets the power will accept.

 

Sorry, but you're wrong El Snarkmeister.

I have the Analyze Weakness set slotted in Beta Decay RIGHT NOW.  And I have a note in red text on my spreadsheet that they changed what the power accepts so I can't respec if I want to keep that set slotted.

I'm wrong a lot.  In my defense I did note this was a possibility.

 

Hey, I read a blurb that said that the set gets nullified in some manner when it is not Respec'd.  What does that mean?  How does it actually work in game terms?

[Uun]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

That said I vaguely recall some sort of exploit or other that once existed for Hamidon multi-aspect IOs enhancing things they shouldn't be allowed to and that it was eventually addressed somehow.  Anybody remember the detail on that?

This goes back to the live servers. You used to be able to slot any HO that enhanced one of the enhancement types the power accepted. Take Invincibility - it accepts tohit buff, defense buff and end reduction. Today you would slot a Cytoskeleton, which enhances tohit (20%), defense (20%) and end reduction (33%). The exploit which was stopped was that you could slot an Enzyme, which enhances tohit debuff (20%), defense debuff (33%) and end reduction (33%). The game didn't distinguish between defense buff and defense debuff, and because defense debuff is Schedule A (defense buff is Schedule B), you got a higher enhancement value.

[UltraAlt]

11 hours ago, Parabola said:

In general defence debuff isn't considered hugely worth slotting for. Most people build with plenty of accuracy and to-hit for normal situations, and in teams there is often some tactics running somewhere. For those situations where defence debuff might be considered useful, enemy pops a tier 9 for example, you would need so much defence debuff to make a dent that it's not really practical.

 

To me, this assumes that the player is playing the end-game and not the game (leveling content).

While leveling, especially at the lower levels, defense debuff can go a long way to help you or your teammates.

 

To me, it seems to work best in ranged AoEs and cones.

[Parabola]

22 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

To me, this assumes that the player is playing the end-game and not the game (leveling content).

While leveling, especially at the lower levels, defense debuff can go a long way to help you or your teammates.

 

To me, it seems to work best in ranged AoEs and cones.

Yeah fair point. I kind of agree about where 'the game' is. I still wouldn't actually slot for it though!

[tidge]

Just because a power accepts a Hami-O, it does not mean that all aspects of a Hami-O are actually doing anything in a power.

 

The simplest test to tell if part of a Hami-o/D-Sync Enhancement is actually going to contribute to a power is: If the power won't accept IOs of a certain category, any a HO/DS won't contribute an enhancement to those types of categories.

 

This is different than named Enhancement Sets which may contain pieces that enhance an attribute of a power even if the power will not take an IO of the type. One power where this is commonly encountered is Mind Link. The power can have its recharge time reduced by slotting Defense and ToHit Buff named set pieces which include Recharge, but a HO Membrane Exposure will not affect recharge times of the power. The HO will only affect the ToHit and Defense buffs. Character design tools don't always account for this.