Are there any underpowered power sets you'd like to see buffed?

[Harrow]

Since balance changes are on the table for Homecoming, I'm wondering what weak/underperforming power sets could use some tweaking.

 

Personally, Dual Pistols would be my #1 pick. Everything about it looks and feels fantastic, but the lack of Aim or a snipe really hurts its damage and I wonder if a damage boost to a couple of its heavier-hitting powers could help make up the difference a bit.

[jack_nomind]

• Empathy (at this point, fort and adrenalin might as well be teamwide; absorb pain probably ought to be cottaged)
• Trick Arrow
• Force Fields (power tweaking, probably some absorb)
• Ice Armor (on tankers specifically, maybe brutes too)
• Battle Axe
• Broadsword
• Beast Mastery

 

+ Kheldians generally, although it's less specific power issues and more a design issue

+ APPs generally, ditto the above

+ Tankers generally, ditto the above

[marcussmythe]

Energy Melee (Utterly wretched.  You could take away the self damage, return to the original animation time, and it would still be an at best second-tier set)

Ice Armor (Pays a bit too much in survivability for its aggro and debuff, IMHO)

Stone Armor Outside Granite/look at the penalties on Granite (Everyone can be supertough with IOs, but Granite pays way too much for it)

Broadsword (but be careful - Stalker BS is vv good, because of other mechanics - on every other AT that has it, BS is terrible)

Regen (No clue what to do with this.  Willpower was given Regen's old hat, and does it better.  Bioarmor was given Regen's new hat - and does it better)

[0th Power]

Unpopular opinion - I think there are too many overpowered power sets as is and would like to see them brought down a bit.  The game with a team is pretty easy and with the "right" team is an absolute cakewalk.  I like feeling super as much as the next guy, but it seems (anecdotal evidence) that there are too many sets that can solo +4/x8s, which Im not sure if anyone should be able to do.

 

That being said, if they decide to buff every power set and make the game even easier, I'll probably still play.

 

EDIT - I would like to see the Energy melee activation times cut down for selfish reasons.

[Rylas]

Energy Melee, as it no longer performs in any significant way. Just undoing its changes would be enough, seeing as other sets would still out-perform it in many ways. Being the "boss killer" was the only thing unique to the set, and now it can't really claim that title.

 

War Mace and Battle Axe. Perhaps this is observation bias, but I never see these two sets out in the wild. Sure, they do good Disorient and KD respectively, but that doesn't seem to have the appeal it once did before. Perhaps giving them a minor -Res on top of what they do would help.

 

 

[Solarverse]

Dark Blaster's Primary. Only change I want to see in the forum of a buff, is the tics of damage sped up by a factor of 2.

 

I would also like to see Energy Shields get a slight buff to bring it in line with other Brute Secondaries.

 

Energy Transfer needs to be reverted back to its original state.

 

Gravity and Elec Troller/Dom set needs to have the knock back resist values added.

 

Placate needs to cancel out the auto Assassin Strike, to allow for the full fledged Assassin Strike from hide.

 

Placate needs to return to its original state. With everyone now educated on +ToHit and +Perception and resistance to Placate, the nerfed version of Placate is no longer required.

 

Propel should return to its original *objects explode upon impact* animation. Gravity Controllers/Doms are littering the streets with their garbage, enough is enough.

[Rylas]

Stone Armor Outside Granite/look at the penalties on Granite (Everyone can be supertough with IOs, but Granite pays way too much for it)

 

My only hesitation here is to compare sets to what people can do with IOs. IOs aren't the balancing point for sets, and it would be impossible to create a standard around IOs. That said, you can still make good arguments for some tweaks to Stone Armor.

[justicebeliever]

Unpopular opinion - I think there are too many overpowered power sets as is and would like to see them brought down a bit.  The game with a team is pretty easy and with the "right" team is an absolute cakewalk.  I like feeling super as much as the next guy, but it seems (anecdotal evidence) that there are too many sets that can solo +4/x8s, which Im not sure if anyone should be able to do.

 

That being said, if they decide to buff every power set and make the game even easier, I'll probably still play.

 

This...I know it's unpopular to say, but I agree...Ideally, no set should be able to solo at that level, and if they can, either the baddies need to be more difficult (better option) or the sets should have powers toned down...

 

I know people are going to say, "why are you telling me how to play", but unfortunately, this is one area where your playstyle and mine overlap and can't be separated.  If the game is too easy, it's not fun.  If I can solo all the content at +4/x8 and still get that AV at the end...it's not fun.  (I'm not quite there though).

[Solarverse]

Unpopular opinion - I think there are too many overpowered power sets as is and would like to see them brought down a bit.  The game with a team is pretty easy and with the "right" team is an absolute cakewalk.  I like feeling super as much as the next guy, but it seems (anecdotal evidence) that there are too many sets that can solo +4/x8s, which Im not sure if anyone should be able to do.

 

That being said, if they decide to buff every power set and make the game even easier, I'll probably still play.

 

EDIT - I would like to see the Energy melee activation times cut down for selfish reasons.

 

The game used to be much more difficult. It was changed when people came to the forums crying about it. I agree with you though. I miss the days when the game was a lot tougher. Part of what made the game easier is the aggro limits. In the old days, if you aggroed to many, your team face planted for it. If would could end the aggro limit, without Tanks trying to herd entire maps, we would be back to an even more perfect game than what it stands now.

[marcussmythe]

Stone Armor Outside Granite/look at the penalties on Granite (Everyone can be supertough with IOs, but Granite pays way too much for it)

 

My only hesitation here is to compare sets to what people can do with IOs. IOs aren't the balancing point for sets, and it would be impossible to create a standard around IOs. That said, you can still make good arguments for some tweaks to Stone Armor.

 

Yet they are there, and we can continue to ignore their impact on game balance, or we can accept that IOs will radically change the game, and at least, if not the underlying ATs, add IOs to certain ATs to address the problems created for the game as a whole by the relative impact of IOs on other ATs.  AT has problems that only exist at the IO level?  Heres an ATO set that addresses those problems, since its only applicable at the IO level, anyway.

[Fiaryn]

• Empathy (at this point, fort and adrenalin might as well be teamwide; absorb pain probably ought to be cottaged)
• Trick Arrow
• Force Fields (power tweaking, probably some absorb)
• Ice Armor (on tankers specifically, maybe brutes too)
• Battle Axe
• Broadsword
• Beast Mastery

 

+ Kheldians generally, although it's less specific power issues and more a design issue

+ APPs generally, ditto the above

+ Tankers generally, ditto the above

 

I would subtract force fields and add energy melee but otherwise this list seems spot on for the underperformers.

[Rylas]

Unpopular opinion - I think there are too many overpowered power sets as is and would like to see them brought down a bit.  The game with a team is pretty easy and with the "right" team is an absolute cakewalk.  I like feeling super as much as the next guy, but it seems (anecdotal evidence) that there are too many sets that can solo +4/x8s, which Im not sure if anyone should be able to do.

 

That being said, if they decide to buff every power set and make the game even easier, I'll probably still play.

 

This...I know it's unpopular to say, but I agree...Ideally, no set should be able to solo at that level, and if they can, either the baddies need to be more difficult (better option) or the sets should have powers toned down...

 

I know people are going to say, "why are you telling me how to play", but unfortunately, this is one area where your playstyle and mine overlap and can't be separated.  If the game is too easy, it's not fun.  If I can solo all the content at +4/x8 and still get that AV at the end...it's not fun.  (I'm not quite there though).

 

*If I can solo all the content at +4/x8 and still get that AV at the end without IOs then something might be overpowered. However, soloing that kind of content with enough IO investment just sounds like things are working as intended.

 

Though, I think "ALL" content at +4/x8 is a bit hyperbole. I've yet to see someone do all content equally with ease.

[Rylas]

Yet they are there, and we can continue to ignore their impact on game balance, or we can accept that IOs will radically change the game, and at least, if not the underlying ATs, add IOs to certain ATs to address the problems created for the game as a whole by the relative impact of IOs on other ATs.  AT has problems that only exist at the IO level?  Heres an ATO set that addresses those problems, since its only applicable at the IO level, anyway.

 

You still need to have some kind of reference point. Considering the endless combination of IOs that are available, it's impossible to create a standard base-line of performance on them. It's like saying let's balance the game like everyone's got their own personal Pocket Kin. Or their own Empathy Buff Bot.

 

Performance on SOs is the only way we can begin to discuss balance between powersets.

[Harrow]

Unpopular opinion - I think there are too many overpowered power sets as is and would like to see them brought down a bit.  The game with a team is pretty easy and with the "right" team is an absolute cakewalk.  I like feeling super as much as the next guy, but it seems (anecdotal evidence) that there are too many sets that can solo +4/x8s, which Im not sure if anyone should be able to do.

 

That being said, if they decide to buff every power set and make the game even easier, I'll probably still play.

 

This...I know it's unpopular to say, but I agree...Ideally, no set should be able to solo at that level, and if they can, either the baddies need to be more difficult (better option) or the sets should have powers toned down...

 

I know people are going to say, "why are you telling me how to play", but unfortunately, this is one area where your playstyle and mine overlap and can't be separated.  If the game is too easy, it's not fun.  If I can solo all the content at +4/x8 and still get that AV at the end...it's not fun.  (I'm not quite there though).

 

Personally, I'm fine with the idea of some builds being able to solo +4/x8, but I think it should require a good build and a lot of IO (and probably incarnate) investment to get there. If something is soloing +4/x8 without IO sets or incarnate powers, yeah, it's probably overtuned.

 

Honestly, with incarnates, "difficulty" is a ship that has probably sailed, at least until the team starts to create new content that can challenge people with full-on incarnate setups.

 

That said, I am 100% on the "sometimes, nerfs are justified" side of the fence. I know it's always unpopular to suggest, but a game cannot survive on buffs alone. Sometimes, the health of a game relies on significantly overpowered options being brought back in-line. That should go hand-in-hand with underperforming options being improved, too.

[marcussmythe]

Yet they are there, and we can continue to ignore their impact on game balance, or we can accept that IOs will radically change the game, and at least, if not the underlying ATs, add IOs to certain ATs to address the problems created for the game as a whole by the relative impact of IOs on other ATs.  AT has problems that only exist at the IO level?  Heres an ATO set that addresses those problems, since its only applicable at the IO level, anyway.

 

You still need to have some kind of reference point. Considering the endless combination of IOs that are available, it's impossible to create a standard base-line of performance on them. It's like saying let's balance the game like everyone's got their own personal Pocket Kin. Or their own Empathy Buff Bot.

 

Performance on SOs is the only way we can begin to discuss balance between powersets.

 

To return to the original point - pretty much all the original one-hand weapon sets - War Mace, Axe, Broadsword. 

 

Really, a LOT of the original sets, in every AT, could use a look see, as they seem to suffer (with a few exceptions) when compared to their later-developed counterparts.  For me at least its a running joke - when people ask 'should I use Powerset X or Y', I often ask them which one was added later - usually a safe bet to be better designed and more effective.

 

As far as reigning in the supersets - I dont disagree - but that probably wants its own thread (as admittedly did my IO-balance-side-trip)

[jack_nomind]

I would subtract force fields and add energy melee but otherwise this list seems spot on for the underperformers.

 

Thank you!  But I'm gonna defend keeping FF on the list.

 

On a Force Fields Defender, Deflection Shield + Insulation Shield give ~24% def/all to allies, +~16% def/all to allies within 25m for a total of 40% def/all (enhanced).  The set as a whole provides some protection against Hold, Stun, and Immobilize, which is nice, and some resistance to a few things including a very nice end drain/recovery debuff resistance.  As far as support's concerned, that's the entire set.

 

The pool power Vengeance, on a Defender, provides a ~40% defense buff to all (enhanced), as well as +65% damage, +35% tohit (unenhanced), and a 13% heal (unenhanced).  It doesn't offer status protection to Hold, Stun, or Immob; or end drain resistance... but it does offer a fair bit of status resistance and protection against KB and Fear.

 

But really FF isn't bad because its numbers are matched by a pool power that recapitulates the entire effect as long as you have some +rech and a floor-prone blaster; it's bad because it does one trick period and that leaves it open to being easily mooted.  Its offensive powers need to be significantly tweaked to have debuff components or some other utility against hard targets, and its defensive powers should have something that contributes to a team that already has two Corrs or one VEAT on it.  That's why it's on the list.

 

To return to the original point - pretty much all the original one-hand weapon sets - War Mace, Axe, Broadsword. 

 

War Mace is fine as far as damage goes.  Few people use it because its secondary effect is less obviously useful than others and the customizations don't match many concepts.  If it needs a tweak to be relevant, it's better animations and weapon skins.

[justicebeliever]

This...I know it's unpopular to say, but I agree...Ideally, no set should be able to solo at that level, and if they can, either the baddies need to be more difficult (better option) or the sets should have powers toned down...

 

I know people are going to say, "why are you telling me how to play", but unfortunately, this is one area where your playstyle and mine overlap and can't be separated.  If the game is too easy, it's not fun.  If I can solo all the content at +4/x8 and still get that AV at the end...it's not fun.  (I'm not quite there though).

 

*If I can solo all the content at +4/x8 and still get that AV at the end without IOs then something might be overpowered. However, soloing that kind of content with enough IO investment just sounds like things are working as intended.

 

Though, I think "ALL" content at +4/x8 is a bit hyperbole. I've yet to see someone do all content equally with ease.

 

You caught me Rylas...It was hyperbole (that's why I added the "I'm not quite there though")...

 

But IMHO, it should be impossible to solo regardless of build/level/IO sets anything at +4/x8.  Even Superman has his limits...and sometimes even he needs his friends to help him out.  And this is more a philosophical question that we'd all have to get on the same page before we look at solutions to how that would work.  If the overwhelming consensus is "no...no...no, I need to be UBER and be able to defeat anything" then it's pointless to debate, because we aren't even in the same mindset to have the discussion.  I'm not saying wanting to be UBER is bad or wrong, just for me, it's not fun.  I want the challenge.  I want to know that even with the best build, there is only like a 5% chance I could solo an AV at +3, and there is no chance, w/o help, that I could do it at +4.  That's my mindset...And if we go with my mindset, then we have to include IO's in the discussion.  But like I said, if you disagree, you disagree, and that's OK.  I think I'm sadly in the minority here, and like 0th power said, I'll still probably play...just won't have quite as much fun...

[marcussmythe]

War Mace - roughly agreed as to damage, though pure smashing (when your being out damaged by sets that do ‘good’ damage types) is not all that great.

 

Hard agree as to animations and weapon choices - though the Sauron mace is nice, its not for everyone.

 

Also hard agree as to disorient.  Sometimes being able to make a mob or two drunken superspeed away, breifly, is a pretty questionable ‘bonus’, especially when higher damage sets with better AOE are KDing huge swaths of foes.  Disorient is low enough additional value, with signficant enough downside, that its IMHO a quirk, rather than a strength, on a powerset.

[ShardWarrior]

Archery

ALL Resist based sets - NIN/SR/Shields with DO enhancements far and away outshines INV with SOs in my experience in terms of survivability

Empathy - completely outshined by KIN

 

ACROSS THE BOARD

 

Accuracy and END costs need to be addressed.  They are both utterly pitiful early game.

 

[jack_nomind]

ALL Resist based sets - NIN/SR/Shields with DO enhancements far and away outshines INV with SOs in my experience in terms of survivability

 

Invuln is a defense-based set -- its totals are very closely comparable to SD by the point of Tough Hide.

[marcussmythe]

ALL Resist based sets - NIN/SR/Shields with DO enhancements far and away outshines INV with SOs in my experience in terms of survivability

 

Invuln is a defense-based set -- its totals are very closely comparable to SD by the point of Tough Hide.

 

Solid numbers.  And better resists than SD.  And Dull Pain, which is amazing.

 

OTOH, SD gets to not have holes in its defenses, (positional def>>>>>typed defense, and that is before IOs come out to play), gets to buff self on teams, gets to buff team on teams, and then theirs the perma-buildup and the teleaoe.

 

Matter of picking which you like more, though I'll note that Stalker takes Invuln, merges REle and REnergy to add Stealth -

 

If I were to update Invuln for the modern era, Id do the same merge, replace one with a scaling +END/+REC power based on drawing a crowd (similar to WP), and replace Unstoppable (cottage rule or not!) with a +DAM/-DEF (Or Res, whatever floats your boat) about on par with Bioarmor's Offensive Stance (roughly +50% Dam for -10% resist).  Id probably also scrub out 'Typed Defense' and replace with 'positional defense' at the current levels invuln provides.

 

[ShardWarrior]

Invuln is a defense-based set -- its totals are very closely comparable to SD by the point of Tough Hide.

 

"By the point of" being the key there - what about before?  Not every character is post 50 Incarnates.  Anyway, just my opinion.  Feel free to disagree.

[SwitchFade]

Energy melee - revamp, it's just.... Cringe.

 

Claws - my God are the animations horrendous.

 

Super strength - see revamp SS thread. Also, please add back old animations as an option

 

Difficulty - scale difficulty up, making it more challenging, post lvl 41 where toons have io's and incarnate. Nothing crazy, just a bit more.

 

Tank gauntlet - add utility unique effects

 

Keldians - turn cysts back in, they were too cool. Other keldian balances... Please be careful.

 

 

Katana - right handed animation

 

[Galaxy Brain]

I agree that maybe a higher diff slider may be in order lol

 

Anywho, I feel FF could use +absorb on its powers. It seems thematic that the ff gives both defense and something attacks have to actually get through to damage you. Could make it a bit more active to reapply the buffs to refresh absorb too!

 

Mercenary serum is booty

Beasts need a look

Ninja also need a look

 

Regen could use a bunch of debuff resistance specifically and maybe some absorb. Its main weakness atm is that it just eats everything that hits you and thus debuffs (esp rech) hurt a lot. Thematically, a regenerative character would be affected for less time!

 

Various mez attacks in attack sets: boost the damage on these pls. Sentinel mez attacks often deal decent damage on top of mez, and several sets like dark or ice also get this, why not make bean bag or Tesla cage follow suite across all versions?

 

 

[OEM61]

I think I'm sadly in the minority here, and like 0th power said, I'll still probably play...just won't have quite as much fun...

 

I agree with you.