Caretaker's Plot Discussion Tunnel to Oblivion

[The Caretaker]

On 6/7/2023 at 3:44 PM, Jiro Ito said:

 

Will we see any more of the Nuclear 90?  A villain maybe?

Hehe. No comment.

[Night]

Are there any plans for continuing the incarnate storyline, or for new post-Mot itrials? Or is it more a closed case, with further slots in the incarnate tree closed and with Hybrid being the set pinnacle mechanically?

[Vanden]

On 5/22/2023 at 7:41 PM, The Caretaker said:

You know, for all the plot holes I've tried to fill, this is the one that just needs to exist, or your efforts would just be too effective.

You'd have whole gangs dismantled from the inside out by level 20... which was exactly how the original writing was done, levels equalling time, and gangs replacing other gangs as the low ones disappeared, you having done them in effectively.

 

Then Clockwork came back at level 41+ for Tina Macintyre, which was fine as an alternate dimension... but then CWK came back in full force at 35+ for the LGTF and that mantra was given the handwave of a lifetime after that.

 

I have a handful of ideas for making releases from the Zig a little less like a meme, but it's not ideal to involve Chris Jenkins in every story.

 

This doesn't really seem like a plot hole to me. All it takes for the CWK to not be in prison during the LGTF is for him to just get out on parole. There's 15 levels of time between his appearances for that to happen.

[Ankylosaur]

On 5/19/2023 at 8:43 PM, Crasical said:

Also, another Praetoria question: is Helix, from the Crusaders arc, a Kheldian?

I always presumed so. I’ve been exploring a few of the open threads with AE (Gold Brickers vs Aeon, First Warders reclaiming Astoria, a different Scirocco take, Awakened and The Council) and have a kheldian plotline called All That Glows. Involves the whole Arakhn and Requiem council schism too and how a Kheldian made it to Praetoria if you want to see one pass at it. 

[Greycat]

On 6/22/2023 at 3:59 AM, Ankylosaur said:

I always presumed so. I’ve been exploring a few of the open threads with AE (Gold Brickers vs Aeon, First Warders reclaiming Astoria, a different Scirocco take, Awakened and The Council) and have a kheldian plotline called All That Glows. Involves the whole Arakhn and Requiem council schism too and how a Kheldian made it to Praetoria if you want to see one pass at it. 

 

We have nothing showing Khelds on Praetorian earth. (Reinforced, to me, by the not-being-able-to-make-Khelds-goldside.)

 

Edit: (After researching for the Kheld backstory and lore guide 2.0 in the Guides section)

 

The original Dev team in one of the AMAs said there's some link between the Batallion and why Khelds are on Earth. Since that sequence of events doesn't happen in another timeline/dimension: No Khelds on Prae Earth. Though, given War Wolf Earth, it obviously *can* happen.

Edited September 29 by Greycat
Newer info.

[The Caretaker]

I am firmly of the belief that some intern chose the Kheldian powers/FX and nobody vetted it, or cared to address it.

 

While it seems likely - given the closely shared but divergent history of Primal and Praetoria- that the Nictus went into hiding ages before any timeline schism, the Nictus' absence in the Praetorian timeline can be written as another victim of variant circumstance.

 

It's possible they died out without fanfare, just like Nemesis did, because of an inconsequential fluctuation in geothermal circumstances that rendered their ability to create shadow crystals impossible on Praetorian Earth, and cautiously exchanging hosts for as long as they had to, eventually got picked off by sheer probability. And then the Hamidon rolled through like a tentacled steamroller and shredded whatever endured anyway.

 

TL;DR: No, there are not dimensionally native Kheldians/Nictus in Praetoria, in any timeline a player has witnessed.

[Ankylosaur]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:12 PM, The Caretaker said:

There are not dimensionally native Kheldians/Nictus in Praetoria, in any timeline a player has witnessed.

 

Yeah I came to the same conclusion, that none were native; part of why there is just one. Given the Nictus’ penchant for conquering, and the game’s for time travel, and interdimensional travel, my little story line justifes it…

 

Spoiler

Helix is cast as a Nictus, sent back to an earlier time in Praetorian history - though of course she was also around back in Roman times too - jumping from host to host over the millennia.
 

Ultimately, there is a schism among the Nictus. Requiem is looking to take the 5th column and Nictus to Praetoria leaving Arakhn and the Council and Primal Earth behind. Generally that group of Nictus are ready to get out of Primal as they have failed to conquer it in over 2,000 years. They welcome new leadership and a new direction.

But my story also does its best to justify the fact that both pre-fall Praetoria and post-fall are available in game - so Praetorian time travel is not that hard to accomplish. And post fall is not just a wasteland - again - viable reasons but that’s a different part of the story.

 

After the nukes:

• The radiation killed off any DE in the immediate area.
• Some surviving clockwork continued their core programming, repairing the city despite the absence of organic life. (And Metronome controls some of them.)
• Neo-Tokyo reclaimed the city, eliminating much of the radiation and protecting the city by using the one thing Cole did not use to keep out the DE: magic. 
• It's Neo Tokyo's magic wards that redirect most portals to the past Praetoria. If you can bypass them you get to the "real" present, that has them in control of the city.

 

If you want to explore it - check out All That Glows arcs in my sig.

 

Or if you want a sense of where the whole series ends up - you can play the finale in my sig - All That Gleams. The Nictus have teamed up with Metronome (he possesses bots, they possess people) and are primarily out at Anti-matter's power plant. That's the one area that is repaired but still fairly irradiated and they can live in that energy quite comfortably.

And obviously my story is not canon, but it’s just to illustrate that in this universe there’s loads of little hooks that you can use and justify to explore new paths, well within the confines of the lore. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Ankylosaur

[Night]

In Helix's story she says she has an environmental suit, and she is covered head to toe in a suit with armored bits on arms, shoulders and boots, so when she mentioned that in story that seemed a plausible enough explanation for flashy powers.

[Ankylosaur]

19 hours ago, Night said:

In Helix's story she says she has an environmental suit, and she is covered head to toe in a suit with armored bits on arms, shoulders and boots, so when she mentioned that in story that seemed a plausible enough explanation for flashy powers.

 

Absolutely, but it also seems plausible enough that it's a cover. I mean - no one else needs an environmental suit...

• "Oh hey Resistance friends, I came up with this awesome and totally unique environmental suit with energy powers, but it's just for me. There is no way I can replicate these weapons for anyone else to wear and help our cause to overthrow Cole. Sorry about that."
  
  or
   
• "I'm covered head to toe in this environmental suit that obscures my appearance so I can use these awesome energy powers. There is no way that I am actually a Nictus possessing someone that you might recognize if I did not have this helmet and mask on at all times."
   

But Helix is not the only mob that uses the Kheldian light powers in game. The Drudges and the Polar Lights do too. So yeah, it could be because of an intern, or economy/budgets for new power art, but for me anyway, the more interesting angle is she could be a Nictus infiltrating Praetoria before the fall...

[Kataklysm]

Is there any plan to explore the restoration of the destroyed parts of praetoria or is the canon timeline going to remain under the assumption "praetoria is lost to hami". I personally always thought it would be a really neat twist to find out recluse pulled a double whammy and using the stolen praetorian tech somehow, arachnos created an anti-hamidon spore weapon of some kind. 

It almost felt like that was where paragon was going until the AMA for me, as I always saw the trapped devouring earth in Grandville as foreshadowing, to . . some sort of arachnos experimenting with hamidon spores situation. also, I always thought arachnos making use of some of that ghoul control collar tech would be -neat- to say the least. what with all the pillaged praetorian goods.

If anyone has the means to take over old praetoria it always felt like arachnos was the most likely candidate. Or vanguard on some heavy handed rouge behavior potentially

[The Caretaker]

On 3/29/2024 at 7:11 PM, Kataklysm said:

Is there any plan to explore the restoration of the destroyed parts of praetoria or is the canon timeline going to remain under the assumption "praetoria is lost to hami". I personally always thought it would be a really neat twist to find out recluse pulled a double whammy and using the stolen praetorian tech somehow, arachnos created an anti-hamidon spore weapon of some kind. 

It almost felt like that was where paragon was going until the AMA for me, as I always saw the trapped devouring earth in Grandville as foreshadowing, to . . some sort of arachnos experimenting with hamidon spores situation. also, I always thought arachnos making use of some of that ghoul control collar tech would be -neat- to say the least. what with all the pillaged praetorian goods.

If anyone has the means to take over old praetoria it always felt like arachnos was the most likely candidate. Or vanguard on some heavy handed rouge behavior potentially

 

Good question. If and when we do the thing, we want to make sure it's meaningful and compelling. Currently, there are no plans, and if one were to go back there, well... that Hamidon is one serious omega-level threat.

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, The Caretaker said:

omega-level

Like the omega-level security clearance is required (or is this a Marvel reference)?

Edited September 23 by Glacier Peak

[jdaddy15911]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:34 PM, TerroirNoir2 said:

Several future arcs will be entirely transmitted via mime.

Personally, I appreciate the long mono/dialogs. It’s reminiscent of comic books from the 70s and 80s. And I like that Homecoming comes up with new content, but doesn’t forget the aesthetic they are going for.

[The Caretaker]

20 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Like the omega-level security clearance is required (or is this a Marvel reference)?

 

I feel like Praetorian Hamidon is, in essence, a wildlife dark mirror to the Borg. Or the Phyrexians.

[Bionic_Flea]

19 minutes ago, The Caretaker said:

I feel like Praetorian Hamidon is, in essence, a wildlife dark mirror to the Borg.

 

Resistance is fertile?

[keyguardactive]

34 minutes ago, The Caretaker said:

 

I feel like Praetorian Hamidon is, in essence, a wildlife dark mirror to the Borg. Or the Phyrexians.

Maybe a little bit of the Yerks from Animorphs, too? Then people could be running around as sleeper agents for the "greater good." Maybe they even slipped over with some of the Praetorian refugees. Then their Devouring cross pollinate with ours, and who knows what that looks like. 

[Ankylosaur]

On 3/29/2024 at 7:11 PM, Kataklysm said:

Is there any plan to explore the restoration of the destroyed parts of praetoria or is the canon timeline going to remain under the assumption "praetoria is lost to hami". I personally always thought it would be a really neat twist to find out recluse pulled a double whammy and using the stolen praetorian tech somehow, arachnos created an anti-hamidon spore weapon of some kind. 

 

Its a long road to get there - but if you play my All That Glimmers arc, I have a take on what is happening in Praetoria - tied to canon but definitely a fork. 

 

[Greycat]

So I've got a few Kheld threads going through my head, as usual, especially after the Kheld backstory/lore guide update I dropped. (And it's something I did an AE on long ago - seem to recall it being very ongoing-SG-story-focused, though, so I'm not sure it'd make a good general play arc if I found it.)

 

Those threads:

- Twilight Son being "the last Kheldian" because of the Battalion. At least in the way his timeline worked out.
- Dev comments in the 2014 (think it was) AMA that there's some link between Khelds being on Earth and the Battalion - "No Battalion, no Kheldians on Earth," essentially, and

- *We have Portal Corps.*

 

To me, I'd think some Khelds would know about this and start thinking about avoiding that possibility, going to Portal and finding other dimensions without the Battalion to colonize. And that this could make for some interesting jumping off points for story arcs. Or just... the utility and experimentation this could open up.

 

 

- The Peacebringers are at war with the Nictus. They'd likely be VERY interested in clearing up War Wolf Earth.

 

- These other worlds have very different environments - and hazards. If you come up with some environmental issue/effect/danger you're not sure would work elsewhere... why not have Kheld colonists run into it as a test run before employing it somewhere else? For instance, they find what appears to be a perfectly suitable world, only to find a necessary part of the ecosystem actively drains energy - and have to decide what to do about it. (Though, we don't really have multiple-ending arcs available.)

 

- Use this "initiative" to prototype enemy group abilities/powersets/etc. while working them into mainstream story arcs under development - they can be useful as longer-term beta tests, basically.

 

- Have the Kheldians and Praetorian refugees working together on a resettlement project, with all the potential issues and enemies it would involve - has Primal Hamidon learned of his counterpart, potentially seeing this as a way to make an entire planet his own "eden" by coopting this? Are former Council members with growing n-fragments infiltrating? What about the Resistance or Loyalists - would they see this as a new start? Would any of them work together? (Nictidon?)

 

... all right, I mostly want to see more Kheld arcs and think there are some interesting lore-based jumping off points. 🙂 That and getting rid of the (honestly nonsensical, given *what Khelds are and how they travel, plus portal*) "they're all going to die" bit.

[DocBeard]

Personally I'd dig to see more of the Khelds in the resurgent Primal supergroups. One of the signature Khelds joining the badly in need of power Freedom Phalanax or helping up some second stringers like the Civic Squad could be cool.

 

Now that superheroes are needed enough to have regular NPC groups again, the relationship between those groups are of interest, at least to me. Obviously they're never going to be as big and central to things as the major antag groups, but I think there's some story there to mine.

 

Edit: Edited to complete my damn sentence lol.

Edited September 30 by DocBeard

[Britannic]

I think Arachnos attempting a takeover of Praetorian Earth could work out, with Vernon von Grun having demonstrated that they can wrest control from Hamidon of the devoured, I'd imagine Arachnos could gain substantial ground there. An even more terrifying implication though; if Hamidon is an Incarnate of Gaia, I'm sure Vernon using Recluse's own genetics mixed with Hamidon's could result in an abomination that could really cause both Earth's huge trouble.

[BurtHutt]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:14 AM, The Caretaker said:

 

There's a phenomenon with all writers in trying to achieve balance.

 

If we say too little, a potential snark-laden commentary about plot holes and careless writing stalks our minds. If we say too much, we're trying too hard to cover every base and justify everything. 

 

We're getting better in that respect. I think Valeria, Houston and Stribbling had the balance about right. 

 

TBH I find it hard to apologize for making someone read, you can always blow through it and wiki it later.

Then why bother playing the game? It's an MMO with a TEAM of players - not always but most people team. There are a lot of these new arcs that are just not fun to play and do not lend to other players in the team. I, for one, have no desire to Wiki the mission I just ran to get clued in as to what's going on.

 

The mechanics and missions are not too sophisticated and can be accomplished without knowing the plot. It's too bad HC seems to want to not allow all to read or understand what's happening. Often the dialogue is also limited to the team leader or the dialogue boxes fire off too quickly and even overlap making reading them a bit tough.

 

My friends and I have run a number of these arcs and the consensus is the same for the most part: not fun. 

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Greycat]

14 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

The mechanics and missions are not too sophisticated and can be accomplished without knowing the plot. It's too bad HC seems to want to not allow all to read or understand what's happening. Often the dialogue is also limited to the team leader or the dialogue boxes fire off too quickly and even overlap making reading them a bit tough.

 

 

Not disagreeing that things ccan be handled better, shared among the team (and it helps if the team stays together,) but as a side note - for some of what people miss, especially talking to the contact, hit the "i" in the red burst to the left of the mission name in the nav bar. It'll show that dialog (and sometimes a bit extra.)

 

There does need to be a nicer way to show clues and souveniers (hopefully without getting cluttered with "There's nothing in that box" when clicking on 10 glowies.) That'd be worth looking into.

[BurtHutt]

On 10/9/2024 at 4:09 AM, Greycat said:

 

Not disagreeing that things ccan be handled better, shared among the team (and it helps if the team stays together,) but as a side note - for some of what people miss, especially talking to the contact, hit the "i" in the red burst to the left of the mission name in the nav bar. It'll show that dialog (and sometimes a bit extra.)

 

There does need to be a nicer way to show clues and souveniers (hopefully without getting cluttered with "There's nothing in that box" when clicking on 10 glowies.) That'd be worth looking into.

Fair comment. I just feel there needs to be a serious revamp in the way these missions are put together.

 

I know some people are really into the lore and story. I enjoy a bit of that too. However, for me, it isn't as important as game play. If I had to pick, I'd take fun game play over story. I'm here to play a game.

 

Again, I'm really liking what the HC team has done for the most part. The quality is on par with the Live team (if not better) but it could be better. I think HC has a chance to really revitalize this game.