Proc in Caltrops

[Snarky]

Do PROCs work in odd powers like these?  If so, how well?  Do they PROC randomly during the life of the pseudo pet? Or just when tossed?

[Major_Decoy]

From my experience with Chance for Absorption in Poison trap, it seems to go off every time I cast it, but I haven't noticed if it procs during the psuedo pet duration.

 

From my experience with Chance for Knockdown in Tashibishi, it goes of about every 10 seconds after casting.

[Snarky]

i  guess its time to experiment on the locals...

 

Seems it has a meh chance to proc as you throw it and then a random here and there afterwards.  Enough to justify slapping in the two pieces of winter for the 15% res to slow effects.  That and I have two pcs of bomb in it for +5% range.  Rocking a global +35% range boost on my AR Dev and that just gets hilarious.  Snipe Rifle and LRM are at 240 feet effective.  I hit peeps with LRM and they forget why they were running before they get to me! (kidding, but they tend to be dead anyways....)

Edited May 6, 2023 by Snarky

[Yomo Kimyata]

I don't ever parse combat logs because, well, it's a huge pain in the butt and I just don't care that much.

 

That said, my "optimal" slotting for Caltrops is 2x Superior Frozen Blast (A/D/R and R/proc) for the slow resist, 2x Ragnarok (D/R +5 and chance for knockdown proc) for the end recovery, 2x Annihilation (-res proc and D/R) for the extra endurance.  Accuracy doesn't count (unless you are putting in damage procs), but damage and recharge do.  Sometimes I slot for slow, but rarely.  In theory it rechecks for procs every ten seconds, or so I've been led to believe, but I'm mostly concerned with the initial placement and the flopping from the Ragnorak proc is evident.

 

My minimum slotting would be the Ragnorak proc and the Annihilation proc.

[Uun]

On my Beasts/Traps MM I've got Caltrops slotted with 5 damage procs. They proc at activation and then every 10 seconds. There doesn't appear to be an accuracy check.

[roleki]

If I recall correctly, the way procs worked in Caltrops/Thorntrops led to the current version of the PPM system; procs still work in *Trops, just not like they used to.  If I throw slots into *Trops, it's usually in a build that needs the -RunSpeed to keep mobs grouped together, i.e. lacking an AoE Immob.  In that case, I slot Ice Mistral's Torment, which seems tailor-made for that power.  

[Snarky]

The power accepts accuracy and counts the value.  Is accuracy not checked?

[Yomo Kimyata]

6 hours ago, Uun said:

There doesn't appear to be an accuracy check.

 

It is my understanding (which is certainly not infallible) that a few episodes back they added a hidden accuracy check on damage procs for powers that are auto-hit.  Non-damage procs should be auto-hit, which is one of the reasons I slot them over damage procs.

 

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

The power accepts accuracy and counts the value.  Is accuracy not checked?

 

I'm looking at Caltrops from the Scrapper epic pool Weapon Mastery, and a pure accuracy IO or SO cannot be slotted.  You can, however, slot IOs that enhance accuracy as long as they also enhance one of the other core characteristics, like damage or recharge.

[Uun]

33 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

It is my understanding (which is certainly not infallible) that a few episodes back they added a hidden accuracy check on damage procs for powers that are auto-hit.  Non-damage procs should be auto-hit, which is one of the reasons I slot them over damage procs.

I'm aware of that, but it usually shows up in CoD. I don't see anything for Caltrops. There's no tohit roll shown in the combat log (other than the initial one stating that Caltrops is autohit). Not sure how to test the proc having a tothit roll vs. the overall proc chance. I typically get 2-3 of the 5 firing each chance. It doesn't do a ton of damage, so I may try replacing with a set.

[Snarky]

Well that is interesting.  My mind convinced itself I saw an accuracy count for Caltrops in MiDs....that is not there.  But I found out it is used for Procs.  Which I am mostly annoying minions with and running Targeting Drone, Tactics, and a Kismet+6% on.  So.  A little wiser and not sweating it.  I may even adda proc!

[DoctorDitko]

Thanks for this. My second favorite CyberKnight will be reprogramming directly!

 

[tidge]

I used to slot Caltrops for %damage, but unless a %damage piece is in part of an enhancement set, there is almost always a better choice for the slot that will improve Quality-of-Life for the character. Something like a travel speed increase additional Recovery. Often there is just a better power for a %damage (or an additional set bonus. My general sense after a LOT of play is this: Caltrops is almost always more useful when slotted for Recharge and Slow.

[roleki]

7 hours ago, tidge said:

I used to slot Caltrops for %damage, but unless a %damage piece is in part of an enhancement set, there is almost always a better choice for the slot that will improve Quality-of-Life for the character. Something like a travel speed increase additional Recovery. Often there is just a better power for a %damage (or an additional set bonus. My general sense after a LOT of play is this: Caltrops is almost always more useful when slotted for Recharge and Slow.

I get why people would throw damage procs in there (or procs in general) but I've always liked Caltrops and the like for the -RunSpeed/Mag 50 Fear, it basically reduces all incoming by half for 45s as the mobs go in and out of Fear. 

 

And unless I mistake what @tidge is alluding to, I can vouch that investment in Rech/Slow pays a lot of dividends when you get the second patch out; my Ill/Traps can (briefly, 7s) have three patches of Caltrops out and I can reliably place a Trip Mine mid-combat during that window, even if my defense is floored. 

 

Trip Mine is proc'd to the gills, of course.

[Grim Bacon]

One build I saw threw 5 damage procs plus a Acc/Dam Hami to help with the accuracy. Mids says the damage is through the roof! I'm curious to see how that does compared to the slotting for -slow/rech.  

 

 

[Uun]

12 hours ago, roleki said:

Trip Mine is proc'd to the gills, of course.

The only proc that works in Trip Mine is Force Feedback +rech. Testing shows that damage procs don't work.

 

2 hours ago, Grim Bacon said:

Mids says the damage is through the roof!

I don't find the actual damage from the procs to be that impressive.

[ZemX]

On 5/6/2023 at 1:11 PM, Uun said:

I'm aware of that, but it usually shows up in CoD. I don't see anything for Caltrops.

 

The tohit roll for procs is on the proc page, not the page for the power hosting the proc (in this case, Caltrops).  e.g. This one you can slot in Caltrops shows the toHit roll in the effects on the lower right.  @ForceHit, I think, is the StreakBreaker.  Otherwise it has to roll to hit, even when placed in an autohit power.

 

 

On 5/6/2023 at 1:11 PM, Uun said:

I typically get 2-3 of the 5 firing each chance.

 

Traps.Caltrops is a 15ft radius AoE.  As a pseudo-pet, it uses 10 seconds as the "recharge time" for calculating procs.   That puts it at around a 21.7% chance for a 3.5ppm proc.  So every ten seconds, I'd expect one of those 5 procs to go off on each target, on average. In other words, 5 damage procs would amount to 71.7 damage per 10 seconds or just 7.17dps per target.  Caltrops by itself only does 2.78 lethal per second unenhanced, so that's certainly a big improvement but for that many slots?  Probably not worth it.

 

3 hours ago, Grim Bacon said:

Mids says the damage is through the roof!

 

I don't have Mids in front of me at the moment but I recall there being some Math settings that affect how it calculates the damage it is showing you.   You want it to use the proc chance to add an average damage value.  If it's showing you max. damage counting as if all procs fired every time?  Yeah, that would be through the roof.  But you'll never see that in game either.

[TNT]

My Grav/Thorn dominator doesn't have procs in thorntrops.  I have other powers that need those slots.  I have two damage/slow enhancements slotted  and consider that good enough.  

 

I do run with perma-dom and nearly perma-hasten, so I can briefly drop three patches during protracted fights.  I feel that makes up for any potential proc damage that I have lost.   But I don't have numbers to back up that claim. 

 

I find the slow just as valuable as the damage, especially since I didn't take the immobilize AoE.  

[Marshal_General]

Does caltrops get any benefit from targeting computer or tactics?

[carroto]

On 5/7/2023 at 1:05 PM, tidge said:

there is almost always a better choice for the slot that will improve Quality-of-Life for the character.

 

This is the conclusion I came to as well.  It was loads of fun seeing mobs get knocked down by Caltrops, I'm not denying that, but slots tend to be so tight on my builds that I can never justify it for the meager level of actual benefit they bring.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, carroto said:

 

This is the conclusion I came to as well.  It was loads of fun seeing mobs get knocked down by Caltrops, I'm not denying that, but slots tend to be so tight on my builds that I can never justify it for the meager level of actual benefit they bring.

 

To be honest, I tend more to the "loads of fun" aspect.  It's not like I'm getting paid to play this game.

[wjrasmussen]

On 5/5/2023 at 6:23 PM, Snarky said:

Do PROCs work in odd powers like these?  If so, how well?  Do they PROC randomly during the life of the pseudo pet? Or just when tossed?

I have a proc in caltrops and don't feel like it was a good investment as it doesn't seem to do what I expected it to do.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I have had a lot of fun in the past using the P2W procs in Caltrops - notably the Knockdown one (forget the name) - which seems to proc randomly and does a great deal to mitigate melee because anything that gets close to me falls over before my eyes 🙂

 

Make of that what you will

 

[TNT]

On 5/9/2023 at 6:34 AM, Marshal_General said:

Does caltrops get any benefit from targeting computer or tactics?

I believe it is a pseudo-pet, so outside buffs are ignored.