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Less restrictive Power Pools & additional enhancement slots


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I'd like to advocate for 2 changes. Both should be simple to implement (at least compared to a new powerset):

 

#1: Add more enhancement slots. Either by giving 2-4 more slots during level up, or by adding those slots to Health and Stamina at set levels.

Reason: It's easy to be starved for slots and EVERY build (to my knowledge) will put 2-4 slots into Health and Stamina. I think this is a great change regardless of "this other server did it too" sentiments. I've never seen a build that didn't put 2-4 slots into Health&Stamina. I think the power gain from this is still small and it would also allow to use those slots for "fun" stuff like 3 slotted travel powers, if you're running a build that doesn't need any extra power. So both "types of players" gain something in my opinion.

 

#2: Remove the "take 2 other powers from this pool" restriction on all additonal Power Pools. This opens up thematic choices for roleplay and allows for more build variety. It makes it easier to choose powers from those pools to fulfil specific niche rolls or fill holes in your build.

 

Personally I'd love to have Group Fly on my Masterminds, but having to take Hover AND Fly (or the attack no one uses) is just too restrictive. When we have other fun powers like Stealth, Combat Teleport, Mystic Flight etc. Being able to mix and match these powers more freely just seems like a good thing to me. You can leave the level restriction in place. Having to select only 1 prerequsitie power would be a possible compromise, if there are balance considerations I'm unaware of. But I honestly don't see a problem with having these powers without picking others beforehand, since you still would have to be lvl 14 before taking them.

 

 

Out of these #2 is more important to me. I realize #1 would shake up builds quite a bit and require giving out a free respec probably. But aside from the hassle of having to respec I don't envision many would be against having a few more slots. 

 

Of course I'd love to hear what others think.

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Hello, Raikao. This has been debated to death on other threads. Multiple times. I am currently disinclined to go into it again, so I instead recommend doing a little reading on this forum.

 

(Edit: Also, as a heads up, there are players that don't put any extra slots into Health or Stamina. Very few of my builds get extra slots in those powers, and if they do, it is usually 1 extra slot. And if I want a slot anywhere else? Those are the first places I pull extra slots from.)

Edited by Rudra
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This isnt a terrible idea if we can tolerate a cascade of "balancing" updates.

More slots would make us far more UBER, which would mean enemies have to get harder or powers weaker.

Skill trees are a long standing tradition in RPG's, The devs have done a great job with power pool power modifications.

like @Rudra said there's a lot to unpack here. 

 

and now I'm gonna run before the power creep crew arrive.  stay safe out there.

 

 

 

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Its easy to criticize a suggestion but can you suggest an alternative?

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essential power pool slotting (for me) on literally every character that isnt a healer or has a healing skill where extending set bonus past uniques is worthwhile:

 

health - panacea, miracle, numinas, sometimes preventative medicine absorb proc, but theres often something that can take this and the final set bonus os good recharge.

 

^ why? it is WAY TOO much base recovery/effective regen to pass up.

 

stamina - performance shifter, occassionally the chance for self heal one (cant remember set name)

 

stupid punch/kick - leave blank

 

tough/weave

3-6 in each of these. must place unbreakable guard, shield wall, scaling res one, res/def low level set one, lotg, gladiators armor.

 

---

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the only thing i dont care for in this is having to take kick or 'punch' in the fighting pool.

 

generally, and for select pools one could look across characters and see 'oh ya, nearly everyone is doing as honoroit mentions!':

 

say for example fighting: keeping pool level requirements, but opening selections to not require n powers to have been selected prior, would lead to greatly increased build variety. 

 

thunderspy did exactly this.  you still need to be level n to select the tough or weave, but you do NOT have to take punch or kick.

 

so a power is freed - the player can grab a skipped primary/secondary power, be a flier with combat teleport and not sacc all over the build to accommodate the loss of other power.

 

 

-- honoroit, powercreep cottage watcher

 

Edited by honoroit
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1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Hello, Raikao. This has been debated to death on other threads. Multiple times. I am currently disinclined to go into it again, so I instead recommend doing a little reading on this forum.

 

(Edit: Also, as a heads up, there are players that don't put any extra slots into Health or Stamina. Very few of my builds get extra slots in those powers, and if they do, it is usually 1 extra slot. And if I want a slot anywhere else? Those are the first places I pull extra slots from.)

 

That doesn't change the fact I'd like it to be in the game.

Also both suggestions? 

 

And sure there are players who don't put slots into Health or Stamina. There are also players who play MM without pets. I don't really see how that changes my point. In almost all cases you'll put slots in there. Every build you'll find online and on these forums does so.

 

Exceptions don't change that to be honest. Especially since the builds that don't put slots in there, would still benefit from the change. As I said, both types of players benefit from having 2-4 more slots.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, honoroit said:

the only thing i dont care for in this is having to take kick or 'punch' in the fighting pool.

 

generally, and for select pools one could look across characters and see 'oh ya, nearly everyone is doing as honoroit mentions!':

 

say for example fighting: keeping pool level requirements, but opening selections to not require n powers to have been selected prior, would lead to greatly increased build variety. 

 

thunderspy did exactly this.  you still need to be level n to select the tough or weave, but you do NOT have to take punch or kick.

 

so a power is freed - the player can grab a skipped primary/secondary power, be a flier with combat teleport and not sacc all over the build to accommodate the loss of other power.

 

 

-- honoroit, powercreep cottage watcher

 

 

Well yeah. Fighting is especially bad I'll agree. Everyone picks kick/punch just to get to tough and weave. Now not having to pick punch/kick will make those builds stronger. I wont argue against that. But how much power are you gaining from a one-slot pick elsewhere? Oh wow you now have combat jumping too, or Group Teleport because you like to run TFs.

 

Another thing I'd like to add: I just looked at other servers. Obviously that's where the basic idea for this thread comes from.

Going threw those and their patches. These two changes are the only ones I found interesting. The only ones where I feel HC could implement them as well and it would just be better overall.

 

And as I said in my opening post. I can live without the extra slots. If it's that much of a balance concern, fine.

 

But unlock the power pools. It adds so much more freedom in building a character in terms of min/max AND theme/roleplay. 

Edited by Raikao
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When it comes to slots, I do think an interesting trade-off could be that maybe at one or two high levels you could choose to sacrifice a power pick in exchange for 2-3 slots instead so that it's not just a direct power increase. Or maybe go the other way and sacrifice some slots for another power pick. I don't think we should just get extra slots without some tradeoff attached to it because the overall power level is fairly high as it is. Something something power creep something something jranger. 

 

As for pool prereqs, this is only an issue when the prereqs are kinda poop. Nobody (in their right mind) would complain about having to take Maneuvers to get to Tactics, for example, because Maneuvers is always good to have even as just a mule for a defense global proc of your choice like LOTG. For fighting, this could translate into just buffing box/kick and/or adding some kind of ranged attack like a throwing knife/axe with a -regen debuff on it.

 

Alternatively, we could allow people to take the higher-tier powers right away but make them perform much weaker if you don't take other powers from the pool first. 

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balancing around making a person drop a power (ie punch/kick) is poor of vision.

 

just open it up in fighting (that alone), and all of a sudden theres a loose pick that extends the meta.  

 

you know salt crystals is pbaoe almost instant cast def down (and a sleep), but you skip that, right - because kick?

 

black hole is not dimension shift, but it saves lives in skilled hands. but you skip that, right - because punch?

 

there are many: the aoe stun in dark blast. but punch.

 

its the smart choice, kupo.

 

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-- honoroit, power pool balance expert

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Luminara said:

[bunch of thread]

 

Well that is rather disheartening.

 

Or encourageing. Depends realy. If it's brought up this often, seems to me like people want it, but a really vocal minority shoots it down everytime.

 

Because the powercreep argument is just so bad when people run old content at +4/x8 at the speed of light and "powercreeped" builds can just do the new challenging stuff (which you don't run either, only once for the badge).

 

So then shouting powercreep really looses all meaning.

Edited by Raikao
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18 minutes ago, Raikao said:

 

Well that is rather disheartening.

Do not be disheartened.

Just proof that it has been debated. 

 

2 hours ago, FupDup said:

When it comes to slots, I do think an interesting trade-off could be that maybe at one or two high levels you could choose to sacrifice a power pick in exchange for 2-3 slots instead so that it's not just a direct power increase. Or maybe go the other way and sacrifice some slots for another power pick. I don't think we should just get extra slots without some tradeoff attached to it because the overall power level is fairly high as it is. Something something power creep something something jranger. 

 

As for pool prereqs, this is only an issue when the prereqs are kinda poop. Nobody (in their right mind) would complain about having to take Maneuvers to get to Tactics, for example, because Maneuvers is always good to have even as just a mule for a defense global proc of your choice like LOTG. For fighting, this could translate into just buffing box/kick and/or adding some kind of ranged attack like a throwing knife/axe with a -regen debuff on it.

 

Alternatively, we could allow people to take the higher-tier powers right away but make them perform much weaker if you don't take other powers from the pool first. 

 

Somewhere in one of those threads, I  proposed this very thing.

And received multiple thumbs down.

If you take a pool power without a prereq, I don't think you should receive that power in full force.

IF the prereqis taken away, what is the cost to the powers?

 

I use every power taken. 

Yes, using a power as a mule is a way of using it, not casting asperions on people who do.

Not my approach.

Punch/Kick, particularly Kick, are part of my attack chain. Also, hilarious ways to finish foes.

Tall characters - kick in the chest/face. Short characters a kick in the  ... 

I think Punch takes a better proc? Not sure, but I think it can take a purple Stun proc. That is lovely.

 

Some of my characters have two slotted Health/Stamina and my travel power.

Some do not, because I need those slots elsewhere.

It is part of the game I enjoy the most.

Working within the limitation.

 

What if Health and Stamina had NO slots and were enhanced every 10 levels?

Ick

But an option.

 

Also adding extra slots? 

Not sure that can be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This is not in the least a difficult game. How much easier do you want it to be? Premade, preslotted characters that start at 50 so you don't have to make ANY decisions? Single button map clearing?

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Primarily on Everlasting. Squid afficionado. Former creator of Copypastas. General smartalec.

 

I tried to combine Circle and DE, but all I got were garden variety evil mages.

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I would be more inclined to say a vocal minority keeps bringing it up and another vocal minority keeps shooting it down - not that people want it and a vocal minority shoots it down.  Ultimately,  it doesnt matter if the player base is convinced or not,  only the devs need to be convinced. 

 

The devs have mentioned that they strive to keep the feel of the original game while homecoming servers are moving in a different but similar direction as the retail servers.  Some larger core changes have been made such as the levels that primary and secondary powers become available.  Even this was done for a reason - the devs wanted a new primary/secondary power to be available every time for a power pick and not force players to pick a pool power at some point.

 

Ive noticed that the devs like data.  Bring the numbers for why a core mechanic should be changed and they will probably be more likely to consider it.  I can say if i had 2 more slots then i will have 2 more set bonuses and 4 slots means i will have 4 more set bonuses.  There is alot of stuff that gets missed out on because a build is a few slots short - i could swap out an orange set for a purple set to get the better values and another 10% recharge and pick up the lost defense with 2 of the slots and use the other 2 slots for tactics which i can now pick because i dont need boxing anymore.  And thats just what i would do,  other players are even more efficient with builds.  But with a whole bunch of data that shows how that wont happen or wouldnt throw the game even more out of balance,  my guess is the devs will take notice.

 

If the majority of players wanted sandbox mode,  they would play on the test server with instant 50 and free everything.  Sure the test server may get wiped on occasion but with instant and free,  we could have everything back.  There has to be something stopping people from wanting free and instant.  My guess is even though its easy,  people still want to earn it.

 

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2 hours ago, JasperStone said:

Do not be disheartened.

Just proof that it has been debated. 

 

 

Somewhere in one of those threads, I  proposed this very thing.

And received multiple thumbs down.

If you take a pool power without a prereq, I don't think you should receive that power in full force.

IF the prereqis taken away, what is the cost to the powers?

 

I use every power taken. 

Yes, using a power as a mule is a way of using it, not casting asperions on people who do.

Not my approach.

Punch/Kick, particularly Kick, are part of my attack chain. Also, hilarious ways to finish foes.

Tall characters - kick in the chest/face. Short characters a kick in the  ... 

I think Punch takes a better proc? Not sure, but I think it can take a purple Stun proc. That is lovely.

 

Some of my characters have two slotted Health/Stamina and my travel power.

Some do not, because I need those slots elsewhere.

It is part of the game I enjoy the most.

Working within the limitation.

 

What if Health and Stamina had NO slots and were enhanced every 10 levels?

Ick

But an option.

 

Also adding extra slots? 

Not sure that can be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd be against removing slots and enhancing them automatically funny enough. Because that actually removes choices. While the variation is probably not much, I have seen Stamina socketed in different flavors, 2 END modifiers, Shifter END + Shifter Proc, Shifter END, that other new one with heal proc and END.

 

I do really want to increase options, not remove them or make things "dumbed down". I also just want to take Group Flight without Fly or Hover. I don't even CARE about tough and weave that much. 

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15 minutes ago, Greycat said:

This is not in the least a difficult game. How much easier do you want it to be? Premade, preslotted characters that start at 50 so you don't have to make ANY decisions? Single button map clearing?

Hyperbole much? Then are you ok with Fitness being gone? The game's not hardcore enough man. Are you doing no inspiration +4/x8 ITF solo then? I've seen a guy on youtube to that. Looked impressive.

 

See we can all go there or we can have a civil disussion? Why would this change make the game easier? Are you ok with other changes that made the game easier? Explain your position so we can actually talk.

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47 minutes ago, Raikao said:

If it's brought up this often, seems to me like people want it

 

Some people want something for nothing.  That doesn't mean they should get it.

 

52 minutes ago, Raikao said:

a really vocal minority shoots it down everytime

 

An educated, knowledgeable minority who understand the game's design and balance requirements and raise valid objections when an uneducated, ignorant minority (the few threads i linked for you don't represent a majority, no matter how hard you spin it) calls for unbalanced changes based entirely on a sense of entitlement.

 

53 minutes ago, Raikao said:

Because the powercreep argument is just so bad when people run old content at +4/x8 at the speed of light and "powercreeped" builds can just do the new challenging stuff (which you don't run either, only once for the badge).

 

False equivalency.  You aren't the vox populi.  You don't know how frequently anyone does anything, as you don't have access to the metrics and tools used by the HC team.  You're not even using the tools available on the forums to gather data to support your assertions, you're just slapping your opinion down and calling it gospel.

 

1 hour ago, Raikao said:

So then shouting powercreep really looses all meaning.

 

In point of fact, there's been very little power creep, and what almost everyone means when they mention power creep is the broader availability of set IOs.  That availability was not an unintended surge in power creep, though.  Neither Cryptic nor Paragon intentionally tanked the game economy with the desire to use that as a restriction on set IO availability.  Had either of those development teams set the economy up properly, instead of allowing players to generate unlimited inf* for years before introducing anything to spend it on, the general use of set IOs we see now would've been the standard in the original run of the game.  They weren't designed and implemented to be incredibly rare, or restricted to the unique and special few who could afford them, and the fact that Cryptic and Paragon both leveraged their monumental economical fuck-up as a limitation on set IO availability doesn't mean it was the right decision, or even a good one.  Their eventual capitulation to their failure with the introduction of reward merits, followed by the Incarnate system, which was founded on the same design philosophy as set IOs but without the economic disaster acting as an impediment, is proof that they recognized and were learning from their mistake.  Now that we can play with set IOs more freely, we're experiencing the game as it was meant to be played, rather than staggering under the unintended and artificial restrictions imposed by the failed economy.

 

The notable power and power set changes the HC team has been making, to which some point to and decry as power creep, have all been done with the explicitly stated intent of raising the bar for everyone.  The HC lead representative, @Jimmy, said unequivocally that 3 +3 minions was the new baseline.  With that baseline as the target, we have not, in fact, experienced a monumental surge of power creep over the past few years, we've only seen powers and power sets which were incapable of meeting that baseline brought up to par.  That's standardization, not power creep.  Yes, some people point to the old Emmertism, "One hero should be equivalent of three +0 minions", and insist that anything above that is power creep, but that's hollow logic based entirely on a refusal to get with the program.  The world has moved forward, the game is moving forward as well.

 

We can't even reasonably refer to amplifiers as power creep because they're optional.  Like inspirations, they're there if you choose to use them.  They're not automatically activated the instant you exit character creation.  They're not mandated by any content.  No-one's twisting your arm to force you to use them.  The use of amplifiers is a choice, and if they make the game "too easy" for some people, those people also have the option not to use them.


The one change which can be accurately denoted as power creep was that of catalyzation being made not only a standard function of the player market, but also easily done by the player via significantly increased drop rate.  That removed certain restrictions which controlled IO usage and can be considered a very minor form of power creep, but, in all honesty, this game was never that hard before we could run willy-nilly with catalyzed IOs.  I tanked AVs and soloed GMs with a defender who had no Defense, no Resistance, no status protection, no-one propping me up and no IOs in Issue 5, using pool melee attacks.  Having catalyzed IOs now isn't making the game that much easier, it's just opening the door for players who couldn't or wouldn't test the game's limits before.

 

 

But none of that really matters because this entire topic is and has always been a non-starter.  The HC team has already said that they're sticking to the core design philosophy and intent of the original game.  Choices, and limitations which force choices, are a core part of this game, and balance is still enforced by the development team.  You are never going to get unlimited power and freedom from making choices on these servers.  If that's what interests you, try another server group.

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Get busy living... or get busy dying.  That's goddamn right.

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3 minutes ago, TheZag said:

I would be more inclined to say a vocal minority keeps bringing it up and another vocal minority keeps shooting it down - not that people want it and a vocal minority shoots it down.  Ultimately,  it doesnt matter if the player base is convinced or not,  only the devs need to be convinced. 

 

The devs have mentioned that they strive to keep the feel of the original game while homecoming servers are moving in a different but similar direction as the retail servers.  Some larger core changes have been made such as the levels that primary and secondary powers become available.  Even this was done for a reason - the devs wanted a new primary/secondary power to be available every time for a power pick and not force players to pick a pool power at some point.

 

Ive noticed that the devs like data.  Bring the numbers for why a core mechanic should be changed and they will probably be more likely to consider it.  I can say if i had 2 more slots then i will have 2 more set bonuses and 4 slots means i will have 4 more set bonuses.  There is alot of stuff that gets missed out on because a build is a few slots short - i could swap out an orange set for a purple set to get the better values and another 10% recharge and pick up the lost defense with 2 of the slots and use the other 2 slots for tactics which i can now pick because i dont need boxing anymore.  And thats just what i would do,  other players are even more efficient with builds.  But with a whole bunch of data that shows how that wont happen or wouldnt throw the game even more out of balance,  my guess is the devs will take notice.

 

If the majority of players wanted sandbox mode,  they would play on the test server with instant 50 and free everything.  Sure the test server may get wiped on occasion but with instant and free,  we could have everything back.  There has to be something stopping people from wanting free and instant.  My guess is even though its easy,  people still want to earn it.

 

FIrst: Thank you, that was an interesting respone with good points.

 

I like that HC is striving to stay close to "vanilla" I really do. I looked at other servers and went "yikes" everytime, but a few changes looked good at first glance. Which doesn't mean I can't be convinced that the changes would be bad. But you don't convert someone by shouting at them. And guess what, the first thing that happened when I made this thread, is a "haha" emoji reaction. I'm glad it's getting more constructive now with people providing links to other discussions (which I do read) and posting responses. That is nice.

 

I have not concidered for example how even just 1 slot might enable another set bonus on a 5 slotted power. I usually go for 5 slot set bonus + a proc, so 6 slots in total so I hadn't thought about that. 

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5 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Some people want something for nothing.  That doesn't mean they should get it.

 

 

An educated, knowledgeable minority who understand the game's design and balance requirements and raise valid objections when an uneducated, ignorant minority (the few threads i linked for you don't represent a majority, no matter how hard you spin it) calls for unbalanced changes based entirely on a sense of entitlement.

 

 

False equivalency.  You aren't the vox populi.  You don't know how frequently anyone does anything, as you don't have access to the metrics and tools used by the HC team.  You're not even using the tools available on the forums to gather data to support your assertions, you're just slapping your opinion down and calling it gospel.

 

 

In point of fact, there's been very little power creep, and what almost everyone means when they mention power creep is the broader availability of set IOs.  That availability was not an unintended surge in power creep, though.  Neither Cryptic nor Paragon intentionally tanked the game economy with the desire to use that as a restriction on set IO availability.  Had either of those development teams set the economy up properly, instead of allowing players to generate unlimited inf* for years before introducing anything to spend it on, the general use of set IOs we see now would've been the standard in the original run of the game.  They weren't designed and implemented to be incredibly rare, or restricted to the unique and special few who could afford them, and the fact that Cryptic and Paragon both leveraged their monumental economical fuck-up as a limitation on set IO availability doesn't mean it was the right decision, or even a good one.  Their eventual capitulation to their failure with the introduction of reward merits, followed by the Incarnate system, which was founded on the same design philosophy as set IOs but without the economic disaster acting as an impediment, is proof that they recognized and were learning from their mistake.  Now that we can play with set IOs more freely, we're experiencing the game as it was meant to be played, rather than staggering under the unintended and artificial restrictions imposed by the failed economy.

 

The notable power and power set changes the HC team has been making, to which some point to and decry as power creep, have all been done with the explicitly stated intent of raising the bar for everyone.  The HC lead representative, @Jimmy, said unequivocally that 3 +3 minions was the new baseline.  With that baseline as the target, we have not, in fact, experienced a monumental surge of power creep over the past few years, we've only seen powers and power sets which were incapable of meeting that baseline brought up to par.  That's standardization, not power creep.  Yes, some people point to the old Emmertism, "One hero should be equivalent of three +0 minions", and insist that anything above that is power creep, but that's hollow logic based entirely on a refusal to get with the program.  The world has moved forward, the game is moving forward as well.

 

We can't even reasonably refer to amplifiers as power creep because they're optional.  Like inspirations, they're there if you choose to use them.  They're not automatically activated the instant you exit character creation.  They're not mandated by any content.  No-one's twisting your arm to force you to use them.  The use of amplifiers is a choice, and if they make the game "too easy" for some people, those people also have the option not to use them.


The one change which can be accurately denoted as power creep was that of catalyzation being made not only a standard function of the player market, but also easily done by the player via significantly increased drop rate.  That removed certain restrictions which controlled IO usage and can be considered a very minor form of power creep, but, in all honesty, this game was never that hard before we could run willy-nilly with catalyzed IOs.  I tanked AVs and soloed GMs with a defender who had no Defense, no Resistance, no status protection, no-one propping me up and no IOs in Issue 5, using pool melee attacks.  Having catalyzed IOs now isn't making the game that much easier, it's just opening the door for players who couldn't or wouldn't test the game's limits before.

 

 

But none of that really matters because this entire topic is and has always been a non-starter.  The HC team has already said that they're sticking to the core design philosophy and intent of the original game.  Choices, and limitations which force choices, are a core part of this game, and balance is still enforced by the development team.  You are never going to get unlimited power and freedom from making choices on these servers.  If that's what interests you, try another server group.

 

Where to even start. I'm going to ignore the start for sure. I'm not interested in ad hominem.

 

You also seem to be speaking for the devs. Again you're not a dev. I don't care unless there is a DEV POST explicitely stating "we wont change power pools like that" or "we wont add slots".

 

If I don't speak for the majority, then you don't speak for the devs either. That's a non-starter.

 

You also point to "how it was intended" 20 years ago for one thing in your favor and for another thing not in your favor. Like the IO changes where totally intended, extra slots where not. Was removing Fitness intended? Have we asked the design head from 20 years ago? Can you point me to HC devs confirming this somewhere?

 

We have added TaskForces, powersets, an entire AT, made balance changes. Where is this line of "only intended changes from back in the day"? Is there dev manifesto from 2005 I haven't seen?

 

I just don't find this argument convincing. Clearly the devs do make changes. Clearly they can't know the intent from 20 years ago.

 

And more importantly: At some point you'd stop doing patches or adding things wouldn't you? It's just too vague.

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11 minutes ago, Raikao said:

Are you doing no inspiration +4/x8 ITF solo then? I've seen a guy on youtube to that. Looked impressive.

That is actually easier than you think, depending on the AT and build. The tricky part of doing that for me? Being able to spread out spawns enough that I'm not being swarmed by more than I can handle at a time. (I'm not an uber player.) So running away from fights falls into my core strategy so I can recover and resume the fight after. (So I find it much more preferable to duo it or solo lower difficulty ITFs.)

 

14 minutes ago, Raikao said:

The game's not hardcore enough man.

That's the point. The game isn't difficult. At all. And the OP would make it even easier. Because players would be able to fully optimize their builds, which they can't do right now because they have to be choosy about slot placement and power picks.

 

16 minutes ago, Raikao said:

Then are you ok with Fitness being gone?

I remember when the Fitness pool was made inherent. I was against that too. I had no say in the matter because I wasn't on the forums, but I do remember the arguments. And as predicted, with the need to pick the Fitness pool removed, players simply found a new "mandatory" pool to replace it. (Hello, Holy Quad.)

 

19 minutes ago, Raikao said:

See we can all go there or we can have a civil disussion?

The discussion so far has been civil. No angry posts have cropped up yet. People are simply stating their responses.

 

19 minutes ago, Raikao said:

Why would this change make the game easier?

Let's start with the added enhancement slots. Whether 2 slots, 4 slots, or other. With those added slots, players can get more set bonuses on their powers. That is more global buffs on their characters. More buffs a character gets, the more powerful the character is, the easier the game becomes.

 

Now let's look at removing power pick requirements from pool powers. Now instead of having to take a prerequisite power, players can find other powers that better maximize their combat ability. That makes them more powerful. Which makes the game easier. (And likely will then lead to renewed requests to increase the number of pools we can choose from to 5 so those extra power picks can be utilized in an even more efficient manner.)

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Raikao said:

Was removing Fitness intended?

Fitness was never removed. It was made inherent so that every character got it for free. (Back on Live, I had characters that retained the actual pool as a pick rather than use the inherent version. I think @Greycat kept such a character until shut down. I however, wound up respeccing those characters, so lost that option.)

 

5 minutes ago, Raikao said:

We have added TaskForces, powersets, an entire AT, made balance changes. Where is this line of "only intended changes from back in the day"? Is there dev manifesto from 2005 I haven't seen?

Some power sets and even individual powers are still outperforming others or under-performing against others. Game balance is not a static thing. It is a constant struggle to find. And adding Task/Strike Forces, power sets, or ATs does not disrupt game balance. At least not anywhere near like taking away existing power prerequisites and giving even more enhancement slots to players.

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4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The discussion so far has been civil. No angry posts have cropped up yet. People are simply stating their responses.

 

 

 

 

emojis without explanation are not civil. Neither is calling yourself "educated" and everyone else "uneducated" as @Luminara did. It fits the avatar for sure though.

That's not civil and against the rules of this forum. I hope we can move forward without that.

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2 minutes ago, Raikao said:

 

emojis without explanation are not civil. Neither is calling yourself "educated" and everyone else "uneducated" as @Luminara did. It fits the avatar for sure though.

That's not civil and against the rules of this forum. I hope we can move forward without that.

Emojis without explanation are the norm here. People like to express their feelings toward a post, but are disinclined to get more involved than that. It happens.

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