Fixing consume and dark consumption, and related issues.

[WindDemon21]

I'm honestly flabbergasted consume at least wasn't fixed in the last round of fire armor changes, especially to the super huge burn nerf even with some off the other additions. But consume never should have been on a 3 minute timer, it's quite absurd especially given that the recovery only lasts 15 seconds, and every other armor sets similar power is on a 60s timer. Same with DC which the devs kinda overcomplicated trying to fix it with the set.

 

Consume should be on the 60s base recharge (most of the others also grant decent defense as a bonus, so it having the end drain resistance/max hp still keeps it in line with those at that recharge). This would go the same on blaster secondaries too, and double the rech on epics (6 minute rech for this power is just extra omg dumb)

 

Dark consumption is similar, but since it's focus should be more on having it as an attack, the recharge should be lowered down to maybe 40 seconds. It should also have the -to hit that other dark melee/blast powers have. Then given the lower recharge, (but way more than a regular aoe attack), double it's damage, move more of the end gain on the first target, and adjust the end gain per target accordingly for this and it's new lower recharge. Something like 20 end for the first target, and 2 per additional target would make sense (it's currently 25 end per target flat which is already kind of weird like other aoe end powers on the armors since you can't really get more than like 115% end with accolades and bonuses so what's the point of that value past the first 4ish targets)

 

And on the subject, TOF and spinning strike if not changed to it's proper pbaoe instead of taoe, NEED their radii increased by at least one more foot. 6 is right at that cutoff where even if mobs are fully gathered around you, it can't extend enough to hit those on the other side of you from the enemy you are targetting. This is noticeable when you use thunderstrike, which is 7ft instead of 6, yet can hit enemies that are on that other side of you. But spinning strike regardless, really should just be a pbaoe, as it's animation even displays.

 

Likewise, given the added benefits that consume, energy absorption, energy drain etc have, power sink on elec armor should also come with something extra, like added regen or max HP.

[Rudra]

Dark Consumption's primary purpose isn't attack despite being in the attack power set. It is built like Consume. It's the "Holy crap! I'm out of END! Gimme!" power that keeps Dark Melee fighting. (Edit: Dark Consumption being in the primary set rather than the secondary means that Dark Melee can be paired with any secondary despite its heavy END draw, rather than limiting players to Fiery Aura for Consume or similar secondaries.) If you turn it into an attack, doubling its damage and reducing its recharge, then its END cost is going to go up from the 0.52 END cost it currently is and its END drain is going to come down. And while I can't speak for other players, that would definitely handicap my DM characters. And if you have the END drain changed to 20 for the first target and another 2 END for each target beyond that, then players are going to need to be surrounded by large numbers of mobs to make it able to keep them fighting, which will penalize players that aren't willing or prepared to face such numbers solo.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Rudra

[Uun]

4 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

But consume never should have been on a 3 minute timer, it's quite absurd especially given that the recovery only lasts 15 seconds, and every other armor sets similar power is on a 60s timer.

The recovery boost only lasts 15 seconds, but the end drain resistance and hit point increase last 2 minutes and can easily be made perma. The recovery boost is probably the least important thing Consume does.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

8 hours ago, Uun said:

The recovery boost only lasts 15 seconds, but the end drain resistance and hit point increase last 2 minutes and can easily be made perma. The recovery boost is probably the least important thing Consume does.

 

[Vanden]

26 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

 

5% Recovery for 15 seconds works out to 1.25 endurance per target hit. I think I'd agree with Uun's conclusion about it.

[WindDemon21]

20 hours ago, Rudra said:

Dark Consumption's primary purpose isn't attack despite being in the attack power set. It is built like Consume. It's the "Holy crap! I'm out of END! Gimme!" power that keeps Dark Melee fighting. (Edit: Dark Consumption being in the primary set rather than the secondary means that Dark Melee can be paired with any secondary despite its heavy END draw, rather than limiting players to Fiery Aura for Consume or similar secondaries.) If you turn it into an attack, doubling its damage and reducing its recharge, then its END cost is going to go up from the 0.52 END cost it currently is and its END drain is going to come down. And while I can't speak for other players, that would definitely handicap my DM characters. And if you have the END drain changed to 20 for the first target and another 2 END for each target beyond that, then players are going to need to be surrounded by large numbers of mobs to make it able to keep them fighting, which will penalize players that aren't willing or prepared to face such numbers solo.

At which it's still WAY too terrible with that 3 minute recharge. That's nuke territory, not just an end gain power. And you're missing what I said, those values estimates btw, would be if given its current .52 end cost. As an attack with lesser end gain, that balances out for its recharge time/end gain. In this scenario, that's also given that more of the end is on the first target (the 2 end is kinda more just to let it still do something on additional). If those numbers don't jive with you, then please suggest something that works for the power, but 3 minutes is ABSURD for this power for it's recharge, and there is simply nothing you could say that would justify this. The devs even agree, but only left it as is currently due to not wanting to waste more time on the power amid conflicting thread posts about it so they could roll out that issue when they did.

 

We're talking fixing the power, numbers can be calculated, but as it stands the power is TERRIBLE with its damage, recharge time, aoe/target cap etc. And needs fixed. If you can't see that and see that there is a way to fix it and make it work, then you really shouldn't be posting here.

 

Also, back on the penalizing, if the powers end cost WAS going to go up, then the gain portion would be higher respectively with this in mind (say 30 end on first target 2.5 additional, etc, again we can figure these numbers out, but these values are fair without OPing the power, idea is to get the power to be usable more often, 3 minute base rech is just too terrible for what it does). The amounts i gave as the suggestion were if the power retained it's .52 end cost. The value as well, you have to factor that you could use the power a lot more often as well, and as i mentioned, the numbers could be adjusted to match the rech/end per second etc to make the power appropriate.

 

Edit: just have to reiterate based on your comment. That the point is ABSOLUTELY not to hinder the power, and is 100% to improve it. We could even just reduce the recharge to 60s and adjust the equal value end with more on the first target and be done with it given how absolutely TERRIBLE and unbalanced on the low end that recharge is for the power. The point being, that adjusting it as a "larger damage aoe/end gain power" not being huge on both, but being in a good spot, is where the power should be. As it stands again, if nothing else changed, the powers recharge should be 60 seconds cause 180s is just WAYYYY too long for what it does. Fixing all the stats concurrently, would still have the power offering much more endurance than other sets provide. If having the power IMPROVED ruins your character, then not only does that not make sense, but you severely did not build your character properly.

Edited August 29, 2023 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

16 hours ago, Uun said:

The recovery boost only lasts 15 seconds, but the end drain resistance and hit point increase last 2 minutes and can easily be made perma. The recovery boost is probably the least important thing Consume does.

Yes I know, the statement was with that all factored in, the recovery portion was pointed out more of like, why is that even bothered if it's not really useful for such a short duration, hence where more of the focus lies on fixing the powers base recharge to the more appropriate 60s recharge. (fyi, other sets that have these end gain powers still have end drain resistnace (or can cap defense so you don't get hit by them in the first place), just not in the same power so the bonus of the end drain resistance in THIS power alone, is fairly moot, hence again the focus on fixing the power itself via the 60s.

[WindDemon21]

IE:

 

Current DC:

 

180s rech/25 end gain per target, x10 targets, would be at a simple 60s recharge for 8.33 end/target times 10 targets is 83.33 end total.

 

Now one of the big things is the use on a full mob versus when the mob dies down and you still need that end. Current version is HORRIBLE at this, especially a million times over how terribly stupid that 3 minute base recharge is, meaning that it's also almost dumb it even does damage, cause it can't much be used well at all for that, and as an end power, its also too long of a recharge for what it does that i've ever been able to justify getting it for either, or both combined.

 

Now I'd actually still vote around 40 seconds similar to the use of savage leap as a damage power with end as the benefit, again, moving the main portion of end to the first target, this still lets it be more useable than it's current version in all scenarios whether versus 1, 4, or 10 targets as the damage it does would actually be useful to use constantly as an attack as well instead of trying to wait for the perfect moment when you need it. So let's go with that, the 83.33 at 60 seconds, to 40 seconds so 2/3 is about 55 end, so that's  = 30 end on first target, and 2.5 per target for the low end gain stat x10 would be 55 end per cast on a full mob.

 

So at face value, it's roughly unslotted full end in 80 seconds on a full mob, vs the 180s unslotted with the current version. IE yes, improved because it is currently TERRIBLE.

 

Now to go the other scenario, where this current version is higher on all targets, which gets you to full in we'll say 5 targets given accolades, bonuses, superior conditioning etc.

 

At 5 targets, that's still full end, and the new version would be 30 + 12.5 = 42.5, so roughly 100s equivalent versus the current 180s version, so not quite as good as versus a full mob, but still better than it's current version over time.

 

And ultimately down to 1 target, like vs an AV, that's 30 end, versus current version's 25 end, and on a much shorter more useful timer, meaning the power actually matters for these fights as an end helper, and it's more useful all around having it up faster as an attack as well. A net gain all around, which is exactly what this power desperately needs.

 

That said, yes it should still be calculated as more of an attack with an end bonus beyond these suggested stats. while the set could use it (depending if they increase the radius on tof at least), It would still be a pretty big help on end that other sets don't offer. If you can't build with that helping you out, then you really don't have any hope lol, but as it stands, the power is just TOO terrible at that 3 minute recharge to ever factor it in to any build i've ever made, let alone even trying to devote slots to it and getting a terrible return.

[Rudra]

46 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

And needs fixed. If you can't see that and see that there is a way to fix it and make it work, then you really shouldn't be posting here.

We can disagree on anything, however, you do not get to say who should or should not be posting on the forums. Just because you think something needs to be changed does not mean it does. While I wouldn't mind the recharge coming down a bit, Dark Melee was the very first power set I used on my very first character when the game was first launched. I've used on several characters. I get the recharge down to 98.52 seconds and it is just barely fast enough that I can spam it to both do damage and keep my END topped off through constant battling. And that is with a measly +35% haste boost from just set bonuses.

 

46 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

As an attack with lesser end gain, that balances out for its recharge time/end gain. In this scenario, that's also given that more of the end is on the first target (the 2 end is kinda more just to let it still do something on additional). If those numbers don't jive with you, then please suggest something that works for the power,

I do have a better idea. You leave the END gain alone. Not everyone plays at max difficulty. Not everyone even cares to try. And nerfing the END gain to 20 for the first target and then 2 per target after is not something I find to be helpful in the slightest. Some players play at base difficulty. They only have 3-4 mobs around them depending on faction. And Dark Consumption can miss. I've been surrounded by 8 mobs and only drained 2 because of RNG and the 95% chance to hit cap. Bad luck happens. And when a Dark Melee needs that END back to keep toggles up and attacks going, being reduced to recovering 22 END as opposed to 50 END means I'm not going to last to the next power activation. (And I build my characters for END sustainment. Which reduces my dependence on things like Dark Consumption.)

 

46 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

The devs even agree,

Great! So what were they thinking? I'd like to know what their plan was. Because I personally do not like yours.

 

46 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Also, back on the penalizing, if the powers end cost WAS going to go up, then the gain portion would be higher respectively with this in mind

If you change Dark Consumption into an actual attack? The first thing to go will be that 0.52 END cost. Dedicated attacks have higher END costs. And if the damage is doubled with the recharge reduced, making the power into an actual attack instead of the utility power it is right now? Then its focus moves away from the END drain/restoration function it currently has. Meaning the END drain will come down. And that is after considering you are already talking about gimping the END drain because you seem to think the power should need a map's worth of mobs around you to recover your END bar.

 

46 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

We could even just reduce the recharge to 60s and adjust the equal value end with more on the first target and be done with it given how absolutely TERRIBLE and unbalanced on the low end that recharge is for the power.

Like I said, I would not be adverse to the recharge coming down. However, I am most definitely opposed to your restructuring of END gain. Front-loading the END gain to a single target with negligible END drain for anything beyond the first target absolutely will handicap my DM characters. (Edit: And again, the primary purpose of Dark Consumption is not an attack despite being in the Dark Melee set. It is to keep Dark Melee able to function in light of its heavy END draw.) (Edit again: As was stated back on Live, the reason why Dark Consumption is in Dark Melee and not Dark Armor is so that players would not be restricted to pairing Dark Melee with Dark Armor. That came from the devs. [At the time.])

Edited August 29, 2023 by Rudra

[WindDemon21]

Same thin

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I do have a better idea. You leave the END gain alone. Not everyone plays at max difficulty. Not everyone even cares to try. And nerfing the END gain to 20 for the first target and then 2 per target after is not something I find to be helpful in the slightest. Some players play at base difficulty. They only have 3-4 mobs around them depending on faction. And Dark Consumption can miss. I've been surrounded by 8 mobs and only drained 2 because of RNG and the 95% chance to hit cap. Bad luck happens. And when a Dark Melee needs that END back to keep toggles up and attacks going, being reduced to recovering 22 END as opposed to 50 END means I'm not going to last to the next power activation. (And I build my characters for END sustainment. Which reduces my dependence on things like Dark Consumption.)

The end gain was the balancing. It's not hurting the end gain overall, it's actually improving it in all scenarios over time, even down to 1 target (i know you didn't see my last post before this one, refer to that)

 

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If you change Dark Consumption into an actual attack? The first thing to go will be that 0.52 END cost. Dedicated attacks have higher END costs. And if the damage is doubled with the recharge reduced, making the power into an actual attack instead of the utility power it is right now? Then its focus moves away from the END drain/restoration function it currently has. Meaning the END drain will come down. And that is after considering you are already talking about gimping the END drain because you seem to think the power should need a map's worth of mobs around you to recover your END bar.

Honestly, if it's easier, keep the damage the same. Regardless the main thing is the power needs to be more usable, more often, and in more situations, rather than the terrible stats it has now.

 

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Like I said, I would not be adverse to the recharge coming down. However, I am most definitely opposed to your restructuring of END gain. Front-loading the END gain to a single target with negligible END drain for anything beyond the first target absolutely will handicap my DM characters.

This definitely WILL NOT handicap anything, as given the shorter recharge, you can use the power more often. If you look at the last post I made, it's a net gain in endurance in all scenarios.

Edited August 29, 2023 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

You're also not factoring, that you don't use DC every time it's up the second it's up, as you will wait till your end is all the way down to get the most out of it, and also waiting till the right mob size as well for the same reason. Adjusting it to a shorter recharge with more end on the first target, means you'll get more endurance more consistently, because you'll actually USE the power more often due to how it works as well. (edit: cause you won't be worrying about trying to maximize it each and every time as the additional end per target isn't as much)

 

Also regarding the power, even with the new proposed stats, it's also really dumb having it at an 8ft radius, at even 40 or 60s (esp at 180) it should have a 15ft radius easily.

 

FYI, even without this changing (ie may not have a full mob in that radius) the new version still ends up as more endurance over time.

Edited August 29, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Captain Fabulous]

/powercreep

[kelika2]

i personally use dark consumption as a procbomb

dark/fire is a fun farmer

[TheZag]

I prefer to not have every ability made into click upon recharge.  Lets let a little bit of thought be allowed in power usage that rewards players for their extra effort into choosing when to use an ability and not have more faceroll abilities that dont matter as long as u mash every button all the time.  Based on just the +hp,  consume has about half as much +hp as dull pain,  half the recharge,  and the same 2 minute duration.  That alone puts it exactly where it should be before considering the endurance recovery and end drain resistance with a mere 51% recharge needed to make those effects permanent.

 

You say needs fixed alot but only offer reasons that point to wants buffed.  My dark melee is my favorite character and certainly isnt in need of any buffs.

 

[Rudra]

40 minutes ago, TheZag said:

I prefer to not have every ability made into click upon recharge.  Lets let a little bit of thought be allowed in power usage that rewards players for their extra effort into choosing when to use an ability and not have more faceroll abilities that dont matter as long as u mash every button all the time.  Based on just the +hp,  consume has about half as much +hp as dull pain,  half the recharge,  and the same 2 minute duration.  That alone puts it exactly where it should be before considering the endurance recovery and end drain resistance with a mere 51% recharge needed to make those effects permanent.

 

You say needs fixed alot but only offer reasons that point to wants buffed.  My dark melee is my favorite character and certainly isnt in need of any buffs.

 

The author doesn't want Dark Consumption fixed. The author wants Dark Consumption changed into an actual attack that fits into his/her/their attack chain because it is in the Dark Melee set rather than the Dark Armor set. The author's presentation for why Consume "needs" to be changed is very different compared to the author's presentation for why Dark Consumption "needs" to be changed. Even the proposed recharge times for the two powers in the OP are different, with Consume being presented as 'should be 60 seconds' compared to Dark Consumption's 'should be 40 seconds'. And if they were both at 60 second recharge, let alone 60 second and 40 second recharge, there would be absolutely no problem with being able to spam the two continuously with just a few SOs. Which is not the design intent for those two damage capable utility powers. Without even any global recharge buffs, a Dark Melee/Fiery Aura character would be able to almost back-to-back keep triggering those powers and never be at risk of no END just with SO slotting, even with a Sapper present. Which takes away the threat of Sappers and other END reduction mobs. And that is even without any balance considerations for Dark Consumption being changed into an attack primary purpose power which it is not at current time.

[Uun]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:48 PM, WindDemon21 said:

I'm honestly flabbergasted consume at least wasn't fixed in the last round of fire armor changes

From the Page 5 patch notes (the last round of fire armor changes):

 

Consume

• Power now grants a small Max HP buff even if no targets are available or hit.
• Power no longer needs a target to grant End Drain protection. (+End still requires targets)
• Power is now auto-hit. Damage still requires a to-hit check.
• This power now takes Healing sets and enhancements.

[WindDemon21]

19 hours ago, kelika2 said:

i personally use dark consumption as a procbomb

dark/fire is a fun farmer

At 60s you still could, it would still have max proc chances if you don't slot any recharge on it.

[WindDemon21]

16 hours ago, TheZag said:

I prefer to not have every ability made into click upon recharge.  Lets let a little bit of thought be allowed in power usage that rewards players for their extra effort into choosing when to use an ability and not have more faceroll abilities that dont matter as long as u mash every button all the time.  Based on just the +hp,  consume has about half as much +hp as dull pain,  half the recharge,  and the same 2 minute duration.  That alone puts it exactly where it should be before considering the endurance recovery and end drain resistance with a mere 51% recharge needed to make those effects permanent.

 

You say needs fixed alot but only offer reasons that point to wants buffed.  My dark melee is my favorite character and certainly isnt in need of any buffs.

 

Even as an end gain power though, and even with the damage it has, it's still WAY too long of a recharge on the power though. with nothing else changing, it still needs a recharge reduction flat out, same with consume. Regarding consume, some of you are trying to factor the power, but how the set. It was one of the places they decided to add that, but especially  since temp protection has that regen, it could just as easily, and even more-so, make sense that they would have put the max hp into temperature protection instead. The powers main use has always been to help with endurance, and even with the hp buff, at 3 minutes that's still way too long for the power to do what it needs to do to help the set out.

 

Regarding DC again, with nothing else changing it still needs that recharge reduction, even 2 minutes would be fair and line it up with soul drain at least, but 3 is terribly too long. If it's intention is mainly for the end gain, then it still should have that recharge reduced, I wouldn't honestly even care as much with the damage going down, if the power itself was actually more usable since most proc it for damage anyway cause it's damage is so sub-par for that recharge. If that's whats needed to get its recharge down, i'd take that any day of the week, but as it stands the power doesn't need that reduced as with its current stats the recharge is still just vastly too long.

 

Not wanting it as a spam power, ok, that's one thing, (which 60s base isn't quite spamming, it's usually one use per mob, and if the mob lasts long, as the numbers dwindle too you still debate using it, or saving it for the next mob anyway). But even as a "when you need it" power, 3 minutes again is too long.

 

Maybe some of you (not in game, i know far too many people in game who agree so really annoying it's always the same few people on here crying out against anything to help a power or set), prefer it as the longer power, ok, the stance would be maybe to the 90-120s recharge then, but defintiely not 3 minutes, it's quite absurd. Maybe if it did more than just a minor damage, one shot end gain, ie like a recovery buff that lasts more than 15 seconds (seriously consume WTH??), but as it stands now, that 3 minutes definitely needs reduced.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

i know far too many people in game who agree so really annoying it's always the same few people on here crying out against anything to help a power or set)

Funny thing. The same people keep asking to make the game even easier than it is. It's almost like only some people come to the forums and post. Like the comments on both sides of any debate on the forums are not representative of the community writ large that plays the game. (And yet, comments that only those that disagree with any given suggestion to make the game easier or to buff powers that don't really need it or to replace powers players are using and enjoying are the minority voices keep getting made despite the fact we are all a recurring minority voice here on the forums.)

 

(Edit: So the whole "I speak for the player base, everyone wants <insert change>" is nonsense. You may be speaking for the people you interact with, but none of us speak for the community. Because none of us has interactions with everyone. So none of us know what everyone wants. Each of us represents a specific group of players, with obviously contrary desires.)

Edited August 30, 2023 by Rudra

[TheZag]

All the people ingame agree with me too.  We tend to be surrounded over time by people with similar opinions as our own.  When we expose our opinions to people outside our usual sphere,  we find that less people agree.

 

[Sovera]

*waves* Somewhat veteran on fire armor. Consume is up every one minute give or take ten seconds. Now the endurance regain has been buffed to never miss I honestly have no beef with it. Being immune to sapping is a bit niche but invaluable.

 

Obviously Consume alone is not enough to keep a blue bar healthy and most my characters used to run on fumes juuuuust before the recharge on Consume had elapsed but I went around that by tweaking my builds  to replace the hefty cost of Maneuvers for the slim and svelte Combat Jumping, and, on Tankers, making all my builds not need to have Tough toggled on to still reach 90% to S/L. With these changes and picking the accolades the blue bar is healthy.

 

But it's all moot. There is no need to do these changes or even pick the accolades when we can buy Recovery Serums for a true pittance. The times where our blue bar is on fumes and we A) don't have someone in the team throwing recovery buffs, B) don't have someone in the team throwing Ageless, C) the team is actually hitting an AV where we wail on something for a full minute non stop, are rare but if and when they come up then we can pop a Recovery Serum.

 

 

I won't speak for DC though.

[WindDemon21]

46 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Funny thing. The same people keep asking to make the game even easier than it is. It's almost like only some people come to the forums and post. Like the comments on both sides of any debate on the forums are not representative of the community writ large that plays the game. (And yet, comments that only those that disagree with any given suggestion to make the game easier or to buff powers that don't really need it or to replace powers players are using and enjoying are the minority voices keep getting made despite the fact we are all a recurring minority voice here on the forums.)

 

(Edit: So the whole "I speak for the player base, everyone wants <insert change>" is nonsense. You may be speaking for the people you interact with, but none of us speak for the community. Because none of us has interactions with everyone. So none of us know what everyone wants. Each of us represents a specific group of players, with obviously contrary desires.)

There is a big difference between "easier" and "this power should definitely not have a 3 minute base recharge and is far too situational.

 

31 minutes ago, TheZag said:

All the people ingame agree with me too.  We tend to be surrounded over time by people with similar opinions as our own.  When we expose our opinions to people outside our usual sphere,  we find that less people agree.

 

This I get, though it's another thing when talking to random people and global channels with whom you've never interacted with before. This is where I wish there was a polling system available that could actually grab the whole playerbase's response (or at least those in game versus the forums only).

 

Regardless, when talking improvements factors are considered. As it stands i'll never take DC as it's far too situational at that recharge for what it does  (ie it's severely underpowered), let alone having to warrant slots to it, so i've always had to build around it.

 

Consume on the other hand, I'd say easily more so definitely should have the recharge reduced to be more available. Again, look at power sink, energy drain, energy absorption. All are on 60s recharges and not overpowered, most also come with bonuses via buffing defense etc, all sets also which already have end drain resistance in their armors, or flat out high cappable defense to avoid end drains in the first place. Consume having that there and the not DP levels of max HP is far from an outlier in this category, and should have the same benefit of the 60s recharge as well. The damage it does, has always been too meager to consider for anything tbh outside of simply allowing more IO set options/procs.

 

If we delve to that, I think a middle ground would be like 120s, and bump up the recovery duration to at least 30 seconds. (Again with more on 1st target for AV battle use, even like DC, the whole 25 end per target up to 10, vastly wastes the benefit of more than 4 or 5 targets being hit, esp if you slot for end mod, even if that were still kept for full end on midsized mobs that use would help those powers out as well.) I think one of the other servers actually did this already with bumping up the recovery duration and shortening the recharge.

[WindDemon21]

4 minutes ago, Sovera said:

*waves* Somewhat veteran on fire armor. Consume is up every one minute give or take ten seconds. Now the endurance regain has been buffed to never miss I honestly have no beef with it. Being immune to sapping is a bit niche but invaluable.

 

Obviously Consume alone is not enough to keep a blue bar healthy and most my characters used to run on fumes juuuuust before the recharge on Consume had elapsed but I went around that by tweaking my builds  to replace the hefty cost of Maneuvers for the slim and svelte Combat Jumping, and, on Tankers, making all my builds not need to have Tough toggled on to still reach 90% to S/L. With these changes and picking the accolades the blue bar is healthy.

 

But it's all moot. There is no need to do these changes or even pick the accolades when we can buy Recovery Serums for a true pittance. The times where our blue bar is on fumes and we A) don't have someone in the team throwing recovery buffs, B) don't have someone in the team throwing Ageless, C) the team is actually hitting an AV where we wail on something for a full minute non stop, are rare but if and when they come up then we can pop a Recovery Serum.

 

 

I won't speak for DC though.

Which that thought would even more say how it's not needed, but then should be considered where it would be more beneficial for those that actually want to use it to help the set ie pre-50 for example. The 3 minutes is just way too long to actually really help the set. Compared to other armors, fire is still one of the weakest armor sets even after the recent changes. This scews a bit on tanks obviously cause they can actually make the resists matter more. And that's fine, as it works more on damage too, but that's also where consume should play a bigger role to help the endurance on the set. The set should be *workable* but then offer the other benefits, but especially since that HUGE burn nerf, the set still just feels lacking. Having consume actually be more reliable for end help would honestly put the set at about exactly where it should be (and certainly wouldn't OP the set by any means either).

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

(Again with more on 1st target for AV battle use, even like DC, the whole 25 end per target up to 10, vastly wastes the benefit of more than 4 or 5 targets being hit, esp if you slot for end mod, even if that were still kept for full end on midsized mobs that use would help those powers out as well.)

Again, you fixate on being surrounded by large numbers of mobs and completely discount the players that don't play at higher difficulties with the large numbers of mobs and still rely on Consume and/or Dark Consumption to recover their END bars. Nerfing a soloist's ability to use a power at lower spawn sizes for the sake of being able to reap benefits from more targets at higher spawn sizes is not acceptable to me. So what if Dark Consumption fully maxes out your END bar if it successfully hit 4 mobs while you were surrounded by millions of enemies. Why should it be penalized for the sake of being able to get a benefit when there are more targets in the AoE? That's like saying Dark Regeneration should be more front loaded, so that you heal 300 points of damage for the 1st target only and then another 10 per target past that. (And yes, I reduced the damage healed because your front loaded Dark Consumption reduces what it recovers even for the first target.) That is a definite nerf.

 

If the devs decide to reduce the recharge to 150 seconds? Sure, I would be fine with that. Reducing the recharge to 40 seconds? Or even 60 seconds? Makes those powers way too available. Now they may as well be part of my active attack chain. I shall never go hungry ag... I mean... want for END again! Consume and Dark Consumption are not meant to be active parts of an attack chain. They are supplemental abilities meant to give characters just enough of an edge to keep them going. And especially in the case of Consume with its 2 minute character buffs, reducing the recharge is very much not necessary. As has already been stated, it can already easily be made perma for its buffs. If its recharge is brought down? Then its buff durations need to be cut as well.

[WindDemon21]

19 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Again, you fixate on being surrounded by large numbers of mobs and completely discount the players that don't play at higher difficulties with the large numbers of mobs and still rely on Consume and/or Dark Consumption to recover their END bars

Actually, I'm fixating on the OPPOSITE. Getting more of it on the first target, so it's better balances when there AREN'T full mobs. Again the values were a suggested Idea, but they were also at 40 or 60 seconds so you can get that gain how many more times than the current model. There is some clear math you don't seem to be getting here relating to the end/minute gained by the suggested change. If a number is off, it can be tweaked, point being to find that magic number. 150 is still too long, with nothing else changing I'd easily propse it at least be 120s and line it up with soul drain (and still bump the radius, again, bare minimum to 10ft, which honestly all melee aoes should be brought back to that, definitley a main reason i end up not playing any of my non-tank melees especially on teams.)

 

Again on consume, relating to the set as a whole and the other armors end gain powers, it would absolutely be in line with a 60s recharge. But I'd still say bare mininum as well with the 120s recharge, and for consume have its recovery buff duration increased to at least 30 seconds. The recovery buff is also so minimal 5 lousy % per target, having more on the first target would still make more sense for the power as well.

 

Edit, also those original values suggested, were also in an attempt to not OP the power, but giving it more use as an actual attack as well. If you think the issue (which it's not) is that it's not giving enough end, then you'd be stating that the end gain should be more is all.

Edited August 30, 2023 by WindDemon21