Fixing consume and dark consumption, and related issues.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Edit, also those original values suggested, were also in an attempt to not OP the power, but giving it more use as an actual attack as well

Except, as I've stated on this thread multiple times and the devs (back on Live) stated when they explained the power and power set, it is not meant as an actual attack. It just happens to also do damage.

[WindDemon21]

20 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Nerfing a soloist's ability to use a power at lower spawn sizes for the sake of being able to reap benefits from more targets at higher spawn sizes is not acceptable to me.

This is actually flat out wrong unless you meant something else as well. As there is NO benefit to the power currently when you hit more than 5 targets as you already max out on your endurance. In the opposite thought that I think you were thinking, with the change suggested, the more end on the first target means you DON'T need a full spawn to get most of the benefit out of the power. Now if those were the values at a 120s recharge even, then yeah that would definitely be a nerf, but at the 40-60s recharge then no, it would be a buff in all scenarios whether it's versus 1 target, 5, or 10. It would just mean that you'd have to use it more times, but there would definitely be more endurance gained over that fight.

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Except, as I've stated on this thread multiple times and the devs (back on Live) stated when they explained the power and power set, it is not meant as an actual attack. It just happens to also do damage.

Which would be more in line then with the suggestion to simply lower the recharge to even the 120s (180 is still just way too long). The 120 would at least for one line it up with soul drain, but would let it be up every other mob or so as opposed to every 3 mobs. Still not the greatest power, but at least at that rate it would do its job enough. Consume/Dc, in every combo I've played, from low levels, and many 50+s, in each playstyle, is just awkwardly far too long, and always end up with an awkward kinda waiting to use it to make it actually help enough and just really makes the set not fun or effective.

[arcane]

As far as I know, Dark Consumption wasn’t buffed when Consume was. So I’m open to that. Consume was already substantially buffed and is in good shape, though. I like that they added features to it instead of just lowering the recharge.

Edited August 30, 2023 by arcane

[WindDemon21]

10 minutes ago, arcane said:

As far as I know, Dark Consumption wasn’t buffed when Consume was. So I’m open to that. Consume was already substantially buffed and is in good shape, though. I like that they added features to it instead of just lowering the recharge.

Don't get me wrong the set needed some buffs, but especially with the burn nerf for the main factor of helping end though, consume is still superiorly sub par for what the set needs, and especially compared to it's other aoe end gain counterparts in the other armors and could still use the help to have it help the sets endurance better.

[Sovera]

I've said my piece on this. I just wanted to add you keep repeating Burn was hugely nerfed and it only was for ST damage, which I'm accepting. No AoE should be a good ST attack. For AoE the damage ended up being roughly the same since Powerhouse tweaked the numbers to make up for the damage loss of all procs going off a second time. This was something I worried about and gave feedback on and tested as Powerhouse tweaked things and churned patches.

 

Burn being a good ST attack was nice for some sets that lack good ST attacks or have awkward recharge times, but I accept AoEs should be for AoE and ST attacks for ST. Even so it's still good enough to use even when just two enemies are present.

 

But i digress. Buffs for Fire Armor!

[kelika2]

18 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

At 60s you still could, it would still have max proc chances if you don't slot any recharge on it.

thats where ageless and global rech comes into play.  so with soul drain thats 6 procs + hybrid + fiery embrace

[WindDemon21]

On 8/30/2023 at 2:26 PM, Sovera said:

*waves* Somewhat veteran on fire armor. Consume is up every one minute give or take ten seconds. Now the endurance regain has been buffed to never miss I honestly have no beef with it. Being immune to sapping is a bit niche but invaluable.

 

Obviously Consume alone is not enough to keep a blue bar healthy and most my characters used to run on fumes juuuuust before the recharge on Consume had elapsed but I went around that by tweaking my builds  to replace the hefty cost of Maneuvers for the slim and svelte Combat Jumping, and, on Tankers, making all my builds not need to have Tough toggled on to still reach 90% to S/L. With these changes and picking the accolades the blue bar is healthy.

 

But it's all moot. There is no need to do these changes or even pick the accolades when we can buy Recovery Serums for a true pittance. The times where our blue bar is on fumes and we A) don't have someone in the team throwing recovery buffs, B) don't have someone in the team throwing Ageless, C) the team is actually hitting an AV where we wail on something for a full minute non stop, are rare but if and when they come up then we can pop a Recovery Serum.

 

 

I won't speak for DC though.

I think, well, and have, just completely build around not getting dark consumption and dealing with it, while it should still also at least have it's recharge reduced, consume definitely should. As a hot button i'd rather see that fixed first cause there are a lot of fire armor combos to try out, but the end is just too poor with current rech on consume. Bumping that down to 60s like the other armor end gain powers are would really be just fine for it, but really would be key to helping the set which is still generally one of the worst armor sets even after the buffs. Having consume be actually accountable to helping endurance with that lower recharge would really clinch the set to where it should be, and wish it would happen fast. Have a few new concepts I really want to do but the recharge on consume just really irks me away from it.

 

Edit, or what might also be fitting, remove the pointless recovery, and just give the power a standard end reduction buff that lasts the same duration as the max hp. Something to more consistently help out the power/set on endurance.

Edited September 9, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

I think, well, and have, just completely build around not getting dark consumption and dealing with it, while it should still also at least have it's recharge reduced, consume definitely should. As a hot button i'd rather see that fixed first cause there are a lot of fire armor combos to try out, but the end is just too poor with current rech on consume. Bumping that down to 60s like the other armor end gain powers are would really be just fine for it, but really would be key to helping the set which is still generally one of the worst armor sets even after the buffs. Having consume be actually accountable to helping endurance with that lower recharge would really clinch the set to where it should be, and wish it would happen fast. Have a few new concepts I really want to do but the recharge on consume just really irks me away from it.

 

Edit, or what might also be fitting, remove the pointless recovery, and just give the power a standard end reduction buff that lasts the same duration as the max hp. Something to more consistently help out the power/set on endurance.

You do realize that reducing Consume's recharge will necessitate reducing its duration as well? Two minutes of improved max HP and END drain resistance are going to have be smacked down to account for an improved recharge. And I have no problems keeping my toggles going and using my attacks on Fiery Aura characters unless its paired with Radiation Melee. (And Radiation Melee has its own concerns I'm still learning to manage. Not a set I've used before until this character.)

 

(Basically, I still don't see why you want Dark Consumption and Consume to have their recharges reduced. They aren't supposed to always be recovering our END, just periodically giving us that emergency boost to keep going. We are supposed to manage our END use, not rely on things like Dark Consumption and Consume to keep us in the fight. For END hungry sets like Dark Melee and Fiery Aura though, they are great for keeping us in the fight as is while also doing damage to our enemies. When needed, as opposed to being part of an expected attack chain.)

[WindDemon21]

On 9/9/2023 at 4:00 PM, Rudra said:

You do realize that reducing Consume's recharge will necessitate reducing its duration as well? Two minutes of improved max HP and END drain resistance are going to have be smacked down to account for an improved recharge. And I have no problems keeping my toggles going and using my attacks on Fiery Aura characters unless its paired with Radiation Melee. (And Radiation Melee has its own concerns I'm still learning to manage. Not a set I've used before until this character.)

 

(Basically, I still don't see why you want Dark Consumption and Consume to have their recharges reduced. They aren't supposed to always be recovering our END, just periodically giving us that emergency boost to keep going. We are supposed to manage our END use, not rely on things like Dark Consumption and Consume to keep us in the fight. For END hungry sets like Dark Melee and Fiery Aura though, they are great for keeping us in the fight as is while also doing damage to our enemies. When needed, as opposed to being part of an expected attack chain.)

It REALLY doesn't have to. You realize you're using a wrong notion of "changing this means a nerf", which would be true of powers/sets that are properly adjusted already. The ENTIRE point of this, is that the power simply is not where it should be. As mentioned before, the max hp could just as easily be in there with temperature protection instead of in consume. It's not dull pain levels of max HP remember as well.

 

Eve n then, then sure, reduce the duration, down to 60s as well. At 60s recharge, that still wouldn't be an issue.

 

And you don't see it, which is the problem. You may see it as fine as is (which great for you, but doesn't mean it's ok) but many people don't see it that way, and it's definitely not proper at a 3 minute recharge, nor given the context of the set would it OP given the 60s recharge as well that several other armor sets have for their aoe end gain abilities. Dark consumption, is different granted, where it should still have the recharge reduced, even if less end gained back or the swap to how its granted and values. It's too situational, as is consume for endurance at it's current recharge, and just leads to really funky, unfun, and sub-par timing of usage for it.

 

Really, move the max hp into temp protection, move the drain resistance to that too or one of the armors, and then it's the same as any other armor set that also gets a 60 second aoe end power, and drain resistance in another power. You're focusing too much on "one power" which has mutliple attributes, but not great at any of them, where other sets do all of this in necessary powers, and still get that 60s end gain power (which most also get a defense bonus as well). 3 minutes has NEVER better justified on these two powers, and is still an old value from o-devs that was terribly statted. You have simply gotten used to it, but it is by no means the value that these powers should have.

[Rudra]

21 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

It REALLY doesn't have to. You realize you're using a wrong notion of "changing this means a nerf", which would be true of powers/sets that are properly adjusted already. The ENTIRE point of this, is that the power simply is not where it should be. As mentioned before, the max hp could just as easily be in there with temperature protection instead of in consume. It's not dull pain levels of max HP remember as well.

 

Eve n then, then sure, reduce the duration, down to 60s as well. At 60s recharge, that still wouldn't be an issue.

 

And you don't see it, which is the problem. You may see it as fine as is (which great for you, but doesn't mean it's ok) but many people don't see it that way, and it's definitely not proper at a 3 minute recharge, nor given the context of the set would it OP given the 60s recharge as well that several other armor sets have for their aoe end gain abilities. Dark consumption, is different granted, where it should still have the recharge reduced, even if less end gained back or the swap to how its granted and values. It's too situational, as is consume for endurance at it's current recharge, and just leads to really funky, unfun, and sub-par timing of usage for it.

 

Really, move the max hp into temp protection, move the drain resistance to that too or one of the armors, and then it's the same as any other armor set that also gets a 60 second aoe end power, and drain resistance in another power. You're focusing too much on "one power" which has mutliple attributes, but not great at any of them, where other sets do all of this in necessary powers, and still get that 60s end gain power (which most also get a defense bonus as well). 3 minutes has NEVER better justified on these two powers, and is still an old value from o-devs that was terribly statted. You have simply gotten used to it, but it is by no means the value that these powers should have.

They are supposed to be situational. They are not meant to be in constant use as attacks. And with a 120 second duration on a 180 second recharge, reducing duration to 60 seconds to match a new 60 second recharge is not going to happen. We can already double up on Consume, renewing the max HP and END resist, with a 120 second duration and a 180 second recharge. So if the recharge was dropped to 60 seconds, then the duration would be reduced to 40 seconds. That's a lot of clicking for that power. And if you want to compare it to Dull Pain? Dull Pain also has a 120 second duration, but has a 360 second recharge. For only an increase of 67 HP for that duration. Dull Pain has twice as long a recharge, for a marginally better effect, and Consume's effect can be stacked, replenishing itself with much more ease.

 

Consume, like Dark Consumption, is not meant to be part of an active attack chain. Yes, it does damage, but doing damage to enemies isn't its purpose. It's purpose is a lasting buff to give your character an edge (+max HP and END resistance) while also temporarily fortifying your END reserve (flat +20 END and +5% REC for 15 seconds). That is more than enough to get a character out of trouble. I've used it while overwhelmed on +4/x8 because I grabbed too many spawns, and found my health stabilized long enough to drop the number of foes trying to smash my head in to a reasonable number. It works. It works well. Apparently, we have very different definitions of fun. Because adding Consume to my attack chain is not something I want. I fully understand you do, but I really like having that ace up my sleeve for when things get out of hand or I screw up my attack rotation or RNG decides it only wants to roll 95.01%+ constantly except for Streakbreaker.

 

Consume and Dark Consumption are not attacks. They are not meant to be incorporated into an attack chain as part of an ongoing rotation. They are there to give you an extra edge when needed.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to correct 4th sentence. And again for 2nd sentence and last sentence of 1st paragraph.

[WindDemon21]

34 minutes ago, Rudra said:

They are supposed to be situational. They are not meant to be in constant use as attacks. And with a 120 second duration on a 180 second recharge, reducing duration to 60 seconds to match a new 60 second recharge is not going to happen. We can already double up on Consume, renewing the max HP and END resist, with a 120 second duration and a 180 second recharge. So if the recharge was dropped to 60 seconds, then the duration would be reduced to 40 seconds. That's a lot of clicking for that power. And if you want to compare it to Dull Pain? Dull Pain also has a 120 second duration, but has a 360 second recharge. For only an increase of 67 HP for that duration. Dull Pain has twice as long a recharge, for a marginally better effect, and Consume's effect can be stacked, replenishing itself with much more ease.

 

Consume, like Dark Consumption, is not meant to be part of an active attack chain. Yes, it does damage, but doing damage to enemies isn't its purpose. It's purpose is a lasting buff to give your character an edge (+max HP and END resistance) while also temporarily fortifying your END reserve (flat +20 END and +5% REC for 15 seconds). That is more than enough to get a character out of trouble. I've used it while overwhelmed on +4/x8 because I grabbed too many spawns, and found my health stabilized long enough to drop the number of foes trying to smash my head in to a reasonable number. It works. It works well. Apparently, we have very different definitions of fun. Because adding Consume to my attack chain is not something I want. I fully understand you do, but I really like having that ace up my sleeve for when things get out of hand or I screw up my attack rotation or RNG decides it only wants to roll 95.01%+ constantly except for Streakbreaker.

 

Consume and Dark Consumption are not attacks. They are not meant to be incorporated into an attack chain as part of an ongoing rotation. They are there to give you an extra edge when needed.

They really aren't, that's the point you're missing. 3 minutes is TOOO situational for what the set needs hands down. Situational is an aoe hold, an end heavy set that needs help with endurance 3 minutes base is TOO situational. It just doesn't work properly.

 

And again, forget the max hp, that's only in there cause the devs stuck it there, it could just as easily have been placed into temp protection. We're talking about the base function of consume that is needed which is to provide endurance. (and again, drain resist could be elsewhere too, but since other sets also provide +defense for example, having it here with a larger value still makes enough sense).

 

Fyi, most fights, 60s still usually means once per mob later game, and earlier there are less bonuses/rech that it may be every other mob still. And never said consume should be an attack, it's not, never was. That tiny damage mostly is there for extra set bonuses, and procs at either recharge if you want, but the power itself is not a damage power. DC SHOULD be more of a damage power that also helps with end, it doens't need to be "full end every time" as long as it's values help out enough for the set and do what it should do. Again, we can go on that later, but consume 100% should have it's recharge reduced to the 60s to match others.

 

Again, consume back to the buff, thinking the duration has to be reduced to be the exact same rech vs duration ratio, it doesn't, and 60s would be perfectly fine, but honestly 40 would still even work way better than it does now at 3 minutes which is utter crap for its main effect for endurance. Again, move the max hp to temp protection instead if it makes it easier for you to understand how the buff/stats/powers work in comparison to other sets. (ie, there is zero reason the max hp couldn't be in temp protection instead, so stop looking at that, it's going away from the actual issue here).

 

Edit: While you also brought it up for comparison, dp isn't a proper comparison with consume having lower values. It would be closer to an auto hp power, but also while bringing it up. dull pain really also doesn't seem right with that recharge vs duration either, stone armors stats match much better by far for that type of power.

Edited September 11, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

And again, forget the max hp, that's only in there cause the devs stuck it there, it could just as easily have been placed into temp protection.

Are you kidding me? Forget one of the two benefits the power grants for TWO MINUTES, a +200.8 max HP boost on Scrappers, on a THREE MINUTE recharge power to fixate on a 15 second duration effect? Because the devs could have just as easily put it into a different power? The devs put it in Consume. They did so intentionally. They didn't just throw a bunch of powers in a set and then grab bag what was going to go into each one.

 

14 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

We're talking about the base function of consume that is needed which is to provide endurance. (and again, drain resist could be elsewhere too, but since other sets also provide +defense for example, having it here with a larger value still makes enough sense).

No, the base function of the power is +max HP, END resistance, +END (not max), and +REC, while still doing damage in a PBAoE. You cannot throw out the parts of the power that don't fit your argument. That is Consume. Consume is and always was a +max HP, 50% END drain resistance, immediate 20 END to the character, +5% REC for 15 seconds, for a minor to moderate amount of damage to foes around the character. That is the power you want to shorten the duration of. That is everything that must be factored into the proposal. You cannot argue the power is an attack that happens to boost your END.

 

18 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Again, consume back to the buff, thinking the duration has to be reduced to be the exact same rech vs duration ratio, it doesn't, and 60s would be perfectly fine, but honestly 40 would still even work way better than it does now at 3 minutes which is utter crap for its main effect for endurance.

With a 40 second duration on a 60 second recharge power, the result would not better than a two minute duration on a three minute recharge power. Because we can already stack Consume to renew its effects, and we would still be doing so with the 40 second duration on a 60 second recharge power. The difference? We would have to click the power a lot more often to maintain that benefit, because you want it to be an attack in your attack chain.

[WindDemon21]

24 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Are you kidding me? Forget one of the two benefits the power grants for TWO MINUTES, a +200.8 max HP boost on Scrappers, on a THREE MINUTE recharge power to fixate on a 15 second duration effect? Because the devs could have just as easily put it into a different power? The devs put it in Consume. They did so intentionally. They didn't just throw a bunch of powers in a set and then grab bag what was going to go into each one.

FYI, in any of these, i'm not considering the recovery boost, tbh, that could easily just disappear completely, cause it's almost completely worthless in the current form anyway. And I'm not sayign forget it as in get rid of it, i'm saying forget it as in it could or should just as easily be in another power, and that should not be factoring into the main point of consume which is to provide the set with endurance.

 

24 minutes ago, Rudra said:

No, the base function of the power is +max HP, END resistance, +END (not max), and +REC, while still doing damage in a PBAoE. You cannot throw out the parts of the power that don't fit your argument. That is Consume. Consume is and always was a +max HP, 50% END drain resistance, immediate 20 END to the character, +5% REC for 15 seconds, for a minor to moderate amount of damage to foes around the character. That is the power you want to shorten the duration of. That is everything that must be factored into the proposal. You cannot argue the power is an attack that happens to boost your END.

Again, it only has the max hp casue the devs randomly stuck it in there. It could easily be in temp protection as well, it wasn't in the power before either, and the power still was terrible. As to the end drain resistance, as mentioned other sets have that in their kit as well, it's just not in their end gain power, but several also have other benefits to their end gain power such as providing defense, so that resistance in consume is fine, allowing the value to be higher cause it's tied to that and not in an auto or toggle for example, that would be more than fair for the power.

 

24 minutes ago, Rudra said:

With a 40 second duration on a 60 second recharge power, the result would not better than a two minute duration on a three minute recharge power. Because we can already stack Consume to renew its effects, and we would still be doing so with the 40 second duration on a 60 second recharge power. The difference? We would have to click the power a lot more often to maintain that benefit, because you want it to be an attack in your attack chain.

This would be the trade-off, but would be worth it because it would mean actually more useful endurance on the set versus current form, but that thinking is still antiquated, as the recharge in current form versus it's duration yes is still way too long what the power should be. A 60s/60s would still be more than fair enough for the power given the set as a whole. Again, if it's easier for you to understand, then move that max hp to temp protection, but the power is NOT fine as is with that 3 minute base recharge.

 

Edit, you keep using the word stack (even if followed by to renew itself, it then isn't stacking, it's renewing). Quit using that, because the power does not stack, the buff replaces itself.

Edited September 11, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

i'm not considering the recovery boost, tbh, that could easily just disappear completely, 

 

that should not be factoring into the main point of consume which is to provide the set with endurance.

Yeah, I'm done with this convo.

[Vanden]

Right now Consume gives a total of 21.25 endurance per target hit; this is from the 20 Endurance up front, then 1.25 endurance over 15 seconds from the Recovery buff. I think it should be made less frontloaded: reduce the endurance it gives immediately on activation to 10 Endurance, and buff the Recovery to 15% for 45 seconds. This still works out to 21.25 endurance per target hit, but moving more of the total endurance to the recovery buff aspect means it'll do a much better job keeping your blue bar afloat during the long recharge time. Fully slotted, each target you hit will increase your recovery a little less than 30% for 45s, and then you'll only have to contend with about 45 seconds with no Endurance assistance until Consume is recharge again. Hitting many enemies will result in less endurance going to waste, and it will only take about 5 or 6 targets hit to keep the average player's blue bar topped off for the 45 second duration (an easy quota to meet with Consume's big fat radius).

Edited September 12, 2023 by Vanden

[WindDemon21]

On 9/11/2023 at 5:57 PM, Rudra said:

Yeah, I'm done with this convo.

Problem with responding via phone is sometimes it grabs/moves words. Something was missing there between the first and 2nd paragraph when i copied the text. What I was trying to say is the recovery, with it's current recharge/duration is so pointless it may as well not be there, in relation to actually fixing the power to be more useful for end altogether. Having SUCH a long recharge on a power like this is horrible alone, but for the not only small amount of recovery per target, last for such a short amount of  time compared to the recharge of the power, is really just a slap in the face.

 

That second part about about not factoring, was relating to the max hp buff, which as mentioned has values closer to other auto powers, and it could, honesty more so should have just as easily been placed into temperature protection with the regen (and let both be enhanceable). Now I don't mind it being IN consume, but only given that consume itself is fixed for it's end gaining properties regardless. Just because the max hp was placed there, doesn't mean it has to be there at the expense of the power itself.

 

End result, while it may not bother you how long the recharge is, it's still not right for the set, and especially compared to others, ice, energy, bio, rad, elec, nin, it's a HUGGGGEEE disproportionate recharge for what it should be for the power to help the set out that it needs, and it REALLY does need the recharge reduced down to 60s as is, even if (and its fine if so) the recovery was removed as it's total over the course of the power is pretty much pointless as is anyway.

 

 

[WindDemon21]

21 hours ago, Vanden said:

Right now Consume gives a total of 21.25 endurance per target hit; this is from the 20 Endurance up front, then 1.5 endurance over 15 seconds from the Recovery buff. I think it should be made less frontloaded: reduce the endurance it gives immediately on activation to 10 Endurance, and buff the Recovery to 15% for 45 seconds. This still works out to 21.25 endurance per target hit, but moving more of the total endurance to the recovery buff aspect means it'll do a much better job keeping your blue bar afloat during the long recharge time. Fully slotted, each target you hit will increase your recovery a little less than 30% for 45s, and then you'll only have to contend with about 45 seconds with no Endurance assistance until Consume is recharge again. Hitting many enemies will result in less endurance going to waste, and it will only take about 5 or 6 targets hit to keep the average player's blue bar topped off for the 45 second duration (an easy quota to meet with Consume's big fat radius).

This line of thinking is the right way to look at the power, but it is still not addressing one BIG factor, which is how sub-par the power is for endurance as is already and is in a desperate need of a buff via dropping the base recharge down to a proper value, or proper variations, (in addition to your suggestion) A big problem with the recharge as well, is that it doesn't always account to let you use it when there is a big enough mob versus when you need that end gain as well. Which is why the suggestion of frontloading the endurance on the first target so you don't NEED a big mob every time for the power to help you out enough (especially looking at AV fights too its use becomes almost nothing). given if the duration is 45s though, I'd suggest a 90s recharge.

 

Or If it wasn't 60 seconds for the recharge nixing the recovery, then 120 at least would be decent enough, if we did bump up per your suggestion and extend the recovery to 60 seconds as opposed to 45. That's kind of an in between of my original suggestion and yours, and I think it would help the power enough at least. We're just talking between either reducing to suck endurance more often, or less often but a more improved lasting recovery buff. Both are good, but at least one version of that is still desperately needed for the power.

 

However back to the non-big mob factor, think it would still benefit more (especially if not 60s rech) to have the first target provide a bigger buff, for more rounded types of fights and getting less screwed if you don't get a good mob on the cast, something similar to the 25 end 25% recovery on first target would be fair given if we're focusing more on the recovery aspect with the 90-120s recharge.

 

Personally thinking about it, I'd probably prefer the 90s recharge with the 45s duration simply to have it line up better with mob-mob, and still recharge sooner than 120 so if you don't get a great cast on it, you can redo it by the next mob, these powers are meant to HELP the set with endurance, especially a still pretty squishy armor set, they shouldn't be that situational, they're not aoe holds, and no other end power on an armor set deals with such terrible "situational" stats, the end from the power is bad, it needs a fix)

 

 

[Luminara]

28 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Problem with responding via phone is sometimes it grabs/moves words.

 

Oh, it's your phone that makes you sound whiny, entitled and demanding, and presents specious arguments based entirely on self interest.

 

Huh.  Maybe you should get a better phone.  That one makes you look like a twat.

[TheZag]

I finally pulled up my brute i made to see what the big deal with fire farming is about.  Turns out fire farming was lame so i havent played the character in 462 days.  I have 2 slots on consume and it recharges in 62 seconds.  My global recharge is 90% with 70% of that being from hasten.  Consume is slotted with 100.9% recharge from a end mod/recharge and a recharge IO.  I do run agility core for extra recharge but even without it,  consume would have a recharge of 69 seconds.  Why in the world would a power that only needs to hit 3 enemies to give a full 100 endurance and recharge in 62 seconds with only 2 slots need fixing of any sort?  Fix your builds - take hasten,  slot a couple luck of the gambler,  get a purple set or 2......

 

So i just realized that this guy was slotted as a miltibox follower with all his damage toggles full of procs instead of going for set bonuses.  I dont even have any purple sets so i  checked with 3 purple sets in mids,  56 seconds recharge on consume.  But lets backtrack to 2 luck of the gambler and a single 5% recharge set bonus along with hasten to achieve 62 seconds.  It is completely reasonable to expect many players will have a recharge nearing the 1 minute mark for what amounts to a full bar of endurance.  If you cant make your endurance last for a minute then your build needs fixed or change your attack chain.

 

[A.I.D.A.]

1 hour ago, TheZag said:

I finally pulled up my brute i made to see what the big deal with fire farming is about.  Turns out fire farming was lame so i havent played the character in 462 days.  I have 2 slots on consume and it recharges in 62 seconds.  My global recharge is 90% with 70% of that being from hasten.  Consume is slotted with 100.9% recharge from a end mod/recharge and a recharge IO.  I do run agility core for extra recharge but even without it,  consume would have a recharge of 69 seconds.  Why in the world would a power that only needs to hit 3 enemies to give a full 100 endurance and recharge in 62 seconds with only 2 slots need fixing of any sort?  Fix your builds - take hasten,  slot a couple luck of the gambler,  get a purple set or 2......

 

So i just realized that this guy was slotted as a miltibox follower with all his damage toggles full of procs instead of going for set bonuses.  I dont even have any purple sets so i  checked with 3 purple sets in mids,  56 seconds recharge on consume.  But lets backtrack to 2 luck of the gambler and a single 5% recharge set bonus along with hasten to achieve 62 seconds.  It is completely reasonable to expect many players will have a recharge nearing the 1 minute mark for what amounts to a full bar of endurance.  If you cant make your endurance last for a minute then your build needs fixed or change your attack chain.

 

 

This. So much this. This thread isn't about a balance issue, it's about a skill issue.

[WindDemon21]

On 9/12/2023 at 6:54 PM, Luminara said:

 

Oh, it's your phone that makes you sound whiny, entitled and demanding, and presents specious arguments based entirely on self interest.

 

Huh.  Maybe you should get a better phone.  That one makes you look like a twat.

Lol no, not self interest. Balance compared to other similar powers/armor sets.

 

Edit: well self interest to the effect of it's really annoying and subpar and exhausting to deal with ruining the fun of playing the set so would like to see it fixed for mine and many other people's enjoyment, not as in "it only benefits me and it'll make the set OP otherwise" by ANY means.

Edited September 18, 2023 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:59 PM, A.I.D.A. said:

 

This. So much this. This thread isn't about a balance issue, it's about a skill issue.

Extremely not. My builds with FF procs always have it a little under 60 seconds, but that's still a FAR cry from what the power should be as I've explained many times above. The power is just not balanced right as an end gain power. (which is the primary function, again if i hear anything about the max hp I'll blow a gasket as that can/should just as easily be in temp protection or whatever) It also means it's pretty much completely useless for end against an av or such unlike the other similar powers were are up often enough to matter as they are on 60s recharges.

 

Again, straight 60s rech, would work, but if 90-120s with the recovery extended/more frontloaded as well that works too, but the power as is is definitely needs a boost.

Edited September 18, 2023 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:39 PM, TheZag said:

I finally pulled up my brute i made to see what the big deal with fire farming is about.  Turns out fire farming was lame so i havent played the character in 462 days.  I have 2 slots on consume and it recharges in 62 seconds.  My global recharge is 90% with 70% of that being from hasten.  Consume is slotted with 100.9% recharge from a end mod/recharge and a recharge IO.  I do run agility core for extra recharge but even without it,  consume would have a recharge of 69 seconds.  Why in the world would a power that only needs to hit 3 enemies to give a full 100 endurance and recharge in 62 seconds with only 2 slots need fixing of any sort?  Fix your builds - take hasten,  slot a couple luck of the gambler,  get a purple set or 2......

 

So i just realized that this guy was slotted as a miltibox follower with all his damage toggles full of procs instead of going for set bonuses.  I dont even have any purple sets so i  checked with 3 purple sets in mids,  56 seconds recharge on consume.  But lets backtrack to 2 luck of the gambler and a single 5% recharge set bonus along with hasten to achieve 62 seconds.  It is completely reasonable to expect many players will have a recharge nearing the 1 minute mark for what amounts to a full bar of endurance.  If you cant make your endurance last for a minute then your build needs fixed or change your attack chain.

 

My builds are granting pretty much a full well done build, I know how to build, but you shouldn't have to build to the max for a power to be balanced anyway. Even with that, again compared to other sets, the power should be MUCH better for endurance like similar sets and powers are like power sink, energy drain, energy absorption, etc.

 

Regarding "make end last for one minute" etc, the point is, that this power SHOULD help more than that like similar powers in other sets do, it's offset for (even with the small buffs to the set, which are a wash considering the MAJOR nerf that burn took) for the still much lower end survival that the set gets compared to other sets. Hence, that, the burn nerf, the small max hp buff etc, all evened each other out, and consume still majorly needed a fix to be better, and this is still the case. There is simply zero reason that it should still have a 180s base recharge given itself or the set as a whole, and should be lowered.

[Luminara]

58 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Lol no, not self interest. Balance compared to other similar powers/armor sets.

 

Edit: well self interest to the effect of it's really annoying and subpar and exhausting to deal with ruining the fun of playing the set so would like to see it fixed for mine and many other people's enjoyment, not as in "it only benefits me and it'll make the set OP otherwise" by ANY means.

 

Bullshit.  Every time you start one of these idiotic spaz-fests, it's the same cockamamie nonsense.

 

"OMG, I can't believe you haven't changed <set or power> to suit my fancy, I told you to do it six forevers ago, why hasn't this been done yet, it's so obvious that it needs to be done, <whatever> is falling apart without this change!", and on and on with wild accusations and over-inflated notions about how necessary <the change> is because <insert logical fallacy>, <insert misunderstanding of basic concepts>, <insert personal valuation of balance in utter disregard for set or game balance>, and then argue with every response which isn't, "You're so smart and 100% super right!", even when hard facts refute everything you say.

 

Case in point:
 

On 9/11/2023 at 2:23 PM, WindDemon21 said:

FYI, in any of these, i'm not considering the recovery boost, tbh, that could easily just disappear completely, cause it's almost completely worthless in the current form anyway.

 

That 15 seconds of +Recovery effectively delays the necessity of using the power by 15 seconds.  Until that stacking Recovery buff expires (meaning 5% base per critter, unenhanced for EndMod), your blue bar should remain pegged at 100%.  Consequently, on an SO-only build without Hasten, you're only at risk of running out of endurance for 1 minute 18.5 seconds.  But because you don't know how it helps, because you can't figure out how to make it work for you, because you need to contrive a reason to change the power, well, fuck it, get rid of it, and to hell with everyone else.  You're the only one who matters, after all.

 

Further case in point:

 

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

Even with that, again compared to other sets, the power should be MUCH better for endurance like similar sets and powers are like power sink, energy drain, energy absorption, etc.

 

Your entire premise sidesteps the fact that powers are not balanced directly against similar powers, they're balanced within and against the sets in which they exist.  You point to powers in other sets, say, "Look, they do one thing the same, this power should be massively buffed!" and act like everyone should pat you on the back for noticing something that no-one else has ever seen.  Every power you list does something different and is something different, with one commonality (stealing endurance) which you posit should be all the reason  there needs to be for changes.  You ignore that Dark Consumption can crit, which none of these other powers can do.  You ignore that DC and Consume have Fiery Embrace tags.  You ignore that DC and Consume cost 0.52 endurance (total, not per critter, 0.52 endurance is the entire cost of those powers), whereas the +End powers in other sets cost 13 endurance.  You ignore that Ice Armor as a whole is balanced with Energy Absorption's +Def in mind, and that Energy Aura as a whole is balanced with Energy Drain's +Def in mind, you wave off the fact that they're integral to the damage mitigation of those sets as if it were irrelevant because it doesn't reflect your myopic concept of balance, or get you what you want.

 

No, you just focus on that one aspect, and stomp your feet and scream about how they should all be normalized because "ZOMG they're the same thing!".

 

You disregard facts because they're obstacles to your agenda.  You ignore fundamentals of game design because they don't bolster your arguments.  You wave off real balance because it's not the balance you want.

 

Oh, this is a doozy:

 

On 8/28/2023 at 4:48 PM, WindDemon21 said:

Dark consumption is similar, but since it's focus should be more on having it as an attack, the recharge should be lowered down to maybe 40 seconds. It should also have the -to hit that other dark melee/blast powers have. Then given the lower recharge, (but way more than a regular aoe attack), double it's damage

 

Yeah, just slip that in and hope no-one, except the people who you imagine work for you (the development team), notices.

 

Every time you start a thread like this, it's the same shit.  Every time you jump into a beta test thread, it's the same shit.  You manufacture some inane reason to change something, use the worst kind of armchair development to justify it, base it all on egoism, act like you're the guy in charge and try to talk down to everyone who has the temerity to respond to you (fucking hilarious, considering that most of your posts read like a 9 year old who's on his fifteenth mocha latte with triple espresso shots).  Christ, as bad as I am at reading people, even I've caught the note of disapproval, disgust and frustration from the HC team when they've tried to explain something (and had to deal with another round of you addressing them as though they were your employees, or morons who need to your guidance to do anything right).

 

You're making my fucking teeth itch.