Is permadeath possible?

[Judasace]

I was just wondering if it's even possible within the code...or even something like, if you don't get rezzed in X minutes you die forever, or even  just harsher death penalties, like if you Hospital you get locked out of your powers for a while.

 

I know it's not everyone's thing,  but I would really enjoy a hardcore server with harsh penalties for failure.

[_NOPE_]

Westley's Maxims

[*]Virtually ANYTHING is possible code, given enough time and resources.

 

 

[EggKookoo]

If it's just for you, you could delete your character upon death.

 

I worry that if they made a hardcore server you'd just see people running around with duplicates of their own dead characters. If the game had been designed for this from the start, they could have added in story arcs that let you use an alt to resurrect another alt, which could be interesting. But I suspect this is pretty niche.

[ShardWarrior]

No thank you.  If you want this, use the available tools to delete your character upon death.

[Shinobu]

 

I remember being in a permadeath SG (Iron Eagles I think?) where if you died, you had to delete the character.  And you saw a lot of people removing the character from the SG but not deleting it (which was okay) and you saw a lot of "Bob the Scrapper IV" and "Bob the Scrapper VII" type of clones and variants.  ^_^

 

Pretty sure TopDoc got to 50 on a defender in that group.

 

Anyway like a lot of things, I think what you ask for is possible given enough dev time, but unlikely to appeal to a wide group of people so you won't likely see that development time or a separate server to run it.  But you can easily do what we did with a SG and people promising to delete/leave and reroll if they die.  Really, for people that like to play that way, it's not hard to work on an honor system.

 

 

 

 

[Coyotedancer]

You'd also have to ask yourself if you were willing to lose a character forever because of... oh, say, a mapserver incident in the middle of a ship raid or a bit of power-delay lag-spiking at the wrong second. Because that would happen. And if it was an automatic process there wouldn't be a "Wait, I didn't do that! Not my fault!"... Unlike taking the Iron Eagle approach and just deleting the deceased yourself manually. 

[eldriyth]

I was just wondering if it's even possible within the code...or even something like, if you don't get rezzed in X minutes you die forever, or even  just harsher death penalties, like if you Hospital you get locked out of your powers for a while.

 

I know it's not everyone's thing,  but I would really enjoy a hardcore server with harsh penalties for failure.

 

Darkest Dungeon that way --->         

[Black Zot]

You'd also have to ask yourself if you were willing to lose a character forever because of... oh, say, a mapserver incident in the middle of a ship raid or a bit of power-delay lag-spiking at the wrong second. Because that would happen. And if it was an automatic process there wouldn't be a "Wait, I didn't do that! Not my fault!"... Unlike taking the Iron Eagle approach and just deleting the deceased yourself manually.

 

This.  I remember Diablo 2's hardcore characters.  Your ability to reach endgame had far more to do with connection quality (and dumb luck versus instagib mechanics) than any sort of skill.

 

No thank you to any rehash of that nonsense.

[Elthenar]

All of our characters on the old servers are permadead.

[Chuckers]

All of our characters on the old servers are permadead.

 

+1 for the funny!  ;D

[EggKookoo]

All of our characters on the old servers are permadead.

 

TOO SOON!

[Judasace]

You'd also have to ask yourself if you were willing to lose a character forever because of... oh, say, a mapserver incident in the middle of a ship raid or a bit of power-delay lag-spiking at the wrong second. Because that would happen. And if it was an automatic process there wouldn't be a "Wait, I didn't do that! Not my fault!"... Unlike taking the Iron Eagle approach and just deleting the deceased yourself manually.

 

Actually I would..for me it would be part of the fun. It's honestly less fun just deleting it yourself...there's a tension and stress that comes when there are elements that are out of your control, it just doesn't generate the same level of excitement.

 

Not sure why people seem hostile...I know that in the past of MMOs there were a lot of people that wanted to force permadeath or a hardcore experience on everyone, but I wouldn't want it forced on anyone else, and this is nothing to do with PvP...but people do seem to get their backs up a lot over this issue even just being talked about.

 

It's kind of like the difference between real life skydiving and doing it virtually. Nothing wrong with either one, but they're two different experiences.

 

Anyhow, mostly I was just curious if it was even something that was possible from a technical point. Now that private servers are a thing, I think it might be fun if people made servers that suit different tastes.

[EggKookoo]

Not sure why people seem hostile...

 

Not really seeing much hostility in this thread, TBH. I see opposing viewpoints or opinions, but that's not the same thing.

[justicebeliever]

You'd also have to ask yourself if you were willing to lose a character forever because of... oh, say, a mapserver incident in the middle of a ship raid or a bit of power-delay lag-spiking at the wrong second. Because that would happen. And if it was an automatic process there wouldn't be a "Wait, I didn't do that! Not my fault!"... Unlike taking the Iron Eagle approach and just deleting the deceased yourself manually.

 

Actually I would..for me it would be part of the fun. It's honestly less fun just deleting it yourself...there's a tension and stress that comes when there are elements that are out of your control, it just doesn't generate the same level of excitement.

 

Not sure why people seem hostile...I know that in the past of MMOs there were a lot of people that wanted to force permadeath or a hardcore experience on everyone, but I wouldn't want it forced on anyone else, and this is nothing to do with PvP...but people do seem to get their backs up a lot over this issue even just being talked about.

 

It's kind of like the difference between real life skydiving and doing it virtually. Nothing wrong with either one, but they're two different experiences.

 

Anyhow, mostly I was just curious if it was even something that was possible from a technical point. Now that private servers are a thing, I think it might be fun if people made servers that suit different tastes.

 

I think what Coyotedancer was refering to is that if your system crashes, or your online session crashes, your character is still logged in for a few minutes with no one steering the ship.  If you were just seconds away from hitting your goal, and then an actual power failure happens, you might be pretty mad that the character you were going to get to lvl 50 without dying, the character you had spent 24 actual in-game hours on, was gone.  You might have been clear, but I wanted to be sure

 

Regardless, like Eggkookoo said, there isn't really hostility in this thread (and believe me, we have many threads with hostility), it's just that the majority of this community doesn't see the value in:

1.) Spending volunteer development time to code the solution you are looking for

2.) Incurring additional hard costs in spinning up a separate server for this experience

3.) Maintaining 2 separate codebases going forward (makes it difficult to make improvements if you have to double code and double test everything)

 

That's not saying we hate your idea, just don't see the value in it.

 

But here's the cool thing - the code is out there.  If you are truly excited about this idea, and you know like-minded people, there is nothing stopping you from starting your own private server and making those changes.

 

Hope this helps with perspective...keep making suggestions

 

[Solarverse]

I'm sure one of the SWG servers still have perma death for Jedi. Try that. I for one am not a fan of working hard to build a character just for that character to die forever. My rage would be real and felt across all four corners of the Earth.

[justicebeliever]

I'm sure one of the SWG servers still have perma death for Jedi. Try that. I for one am not a fan of working hard to build a character just for that character to die forever. My rage would be real and felt across all four corners of the Earth.

 

*Starts counting corners of the earth*

 

Hey, wait a sec...

[Solarverse]

I'm sure one of the SWG servers still have perma death for Jedi. Try that. I for one am not a fan of working hard to build a character just for that character to die forever. My rage would be real and felt across all four corners of the Earth.

 

*Starts counting corners of the earth*

 

Hey, wait a sec...

 

LOL!

[Solvernia]

You are free to apply any restrictions and penalties for challenges you impose upon yourself. There doesn't really need to be a game mechanic specifically to enable something that you can already do.

[Triggerhappy938]

It's not fun if other people aren't suffering.

[Emma Usher]

I remember the hardcore experience from good ol' Diablo II, but I doubt I'd play it in CoH. However, as defeat have negligible consequences in this game, I consider adding some sort of consequence if I get defeated:

My first though was to put character out of commission for say one week (when he or she recovers from injuries), but that would interfere with team play if getting defeated in a mission. So a better option that would not affect team members nor my own social experience is to turn XP off for a week, and switch to a designated costume slot with bruises and shredded clothes. And only carry awakens when playing in teams :)

[EggKookoo]

It's not fun if other people aren't suffering.

 

I know you're being funny, but there's some truth to that. A game like this is more fun if everyone plays by the same basic rules. I mean, if I asked if I could turn off exp debt just for myself because I don't like it, I'd be rightly /JRangered. I just think Judasace's original request isn't something most players would want.

 

The hardcore SG idea would work great, though, especially if it was acceptable that your dead character merely leave the SG instead of being deleted. I might join that SG myself, just to try out the experience.

[Solarverse]

I remember the hardcore experience from good ol' Diablo II, but I doubt I'd play it in CoH. However, as defeat have negligible consequences in this game, I consider adding some sort of consequence if I get defeated:

 

Not sure if you were here back then, but Debt used to be worse...a lot worse. Debt used to be so extreme (I never had an issue with it) that players came to the forums to rage about debt...and I do mean rage.

 

Debt was so bad in those days that I created a Fire/Stone Tank and named him DEBTINATOR. He was the only character I had who had a name with all CAPS. I farmed Wolves, Drek and Ninjas to wipe people's debt.

 

Now, such a character would be pointless, since debt is minor at best.

[klokwerkaos]

Easiest way to implement this:  Delete your character if you die.

[Emma Usher]

 

Not sure if you were here back then, but Debt used to be worse...a lot worse. Debt used to be so extreme (I never had an issue with it) that players came to the forums to rage about debt...and I do mean rage.

 

Debt was so bad in those days that I created a Fire/Stone Tank and named him DEBTINATOR. He was the only character I had who had a name with all CAPS. I farmed Wolves, Drek and Ninjas to wipe people's debt.

 

Now, such a character would be pointless, since debt is minor at best.

Yes, I remember, the good old days when debt mattered :)

 

But do anyone have a good word for a middle ground between softcore and hardcore, that others might recognize? I've started to play with turning off XP gain temporarily and make injuried/shredded costume slot for my toons to wear during recovery time if they get defeated.

[EggKookoo]

But do anyone have a good word for a middle ground between softcore and hardcore, that others might recognize? I've started to play with turning off XP gain temporarily and make injuried/shredded costume slot for my toons to wear during recovery time if they get defeated.

 

You can increase the difficulty of your missions, if that helps? It means you'll fail/"die" more often but then succeeding will feel more satisfying.