Teleporting Attack Powers - Poll

[SupaFreak]

Just curious if others would prefer the "teleport to target" abilty of Feral Charge on these attacks as I would OR if people really dig that targeting radar.  

Edited January 24, 2024 by SupaFreak

[Hedgefund]

The /powexec_location target POWER slash command makes these two equivalent.  I guess the advantage of Feral Charge is you do't have to take the 10 seconds to create that bind/macro.

[SupaFreak]

To be honest, a lot of casual players I've ran into don't want to bother with macros or do the research on macros.  I'm kinda curious in general if people actually "like" the targeting radar all that much.  Do they also use it for a quick TP where there's no enemy or something?

[A Cat]

I don't want to pollute the poll since I haven't played savage melee, but from my extensive electric melee and some shield defense experience, I think I'd prefer teleport to target. 

[SupaFreak]

9 minutes ago, A Cat said:

I don't want to pollute the poll since I haven't played savage melee, but from my extensive electric melee and some shield defense experience, I think I'd prefer teleport to target. 

 

Try it on Brainstorm or make a Temporal Warrior PvP real quick and try it sometime.  I love it.

[Clave Dark 5]

I prefer to TP into someone's face, but being able to occasionally choose where I TP to (like when I want to go outside Pocket D heh) has its place.  If you've never used a macro/bind for TP attack powers, OMG, it is so, so worth it.  I have a Sav/Shield stalker who also took Spring Attack and Combat TP (or whatever that's called) and he'd not be half as fun without them  Night and day, for me.

[TheMoncrief]

9 hours ago, SupaFreak said:

Just curious if others would prefer the "teleport to target" abilty of Feral Charge on these attacks as I would OR if people really dig that targeting radar.  

I'll stick with the targeting radar, at least for AoE attacks. It gives me some versatility if I ever want to target to someplace where there's  nobody to attack, and I'm comfortable enough with macros to make them function as enemy-targeted teleport attacks if I want to.

[arcane]

11 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

The /powexec_location target POWER slash command makes these two equivalent.  I guess the advantage of Feral Charge is you do't have to take the 10 seconds to create that bind/macro.

Some players don’t like to need custom binds/macros. 

[TheMoncrief]

20 minutes ago, arcane said:

Some players don’t like to need custom binds/macros. 

And some players would tell them to learn to use the tools they have, because at least *THEIR* problem can be (mostly) solved with the tools they don't want to use. There is no equivalent solution to convert powers like Feral Charge into location-targeted powers with a targeting radar for people who like the targeting radar.

 

Exchanging a problem that has a solution some people don't feel like using for a problem that cannot be solved by any tools currently in the game is not an intelligent choice for the devs to make.

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, TheMoncrief said:

And some players would tell them to learn to use the tools they have, because at least *THEIR* problem can be (mostly) solved with the tools they don't want to use. There is no equivalent solution to convert powers like Feral Charge into location-targeted powers with a targeting radar for people who like the targeting radar.

 

Exchanging a problem that has a solution some people don't feel like using for a problem that cannot be solved by any tools currently in the game is not an intelligent choice for the devs to make.

Development should never design powers assuming players will use binds/macros.

[JasperStone]

27 minutes ago, arcane said:

Development should never design powers assuming players will use binds/macros.

There is keymapping in game through the options menu.

I have set it using a button on my mouse. 

Not a bind/macro 

Casual players should be made aware of them.

 

Edit: to add. I have only two. One for Hami and one for sappers. Since Live I have used what is available in game.

Edited January 24, 2024 by JasperStone

[ZemX]

It makes more sense to compare Savage Leap to those others than Feral Charge because Savage Leap is an AoE.

 

The advantage of location targeting an AoE is that you can precisely target the area of effect to cover the maximum number of enemies.    e.g. You can hit two enemies standing 30 feet apart with one Shield Charge if you target the ground between them but NOT if you are forced to target one or the other.  In practice, it's often the case there is someone standing near enough to the center of a pack of enemies that you can select them but it can also be difficult to do so if there are many largish enemies all standing shoulder-to-shoulder.  Location targeting ignores all those hit boxes in the way and lets you pinpoint the approximate center of a pack of enemies.   That's what you want.

 

And as pointed out, you can turn that into an enemy-targeted AoE if you really want.  You can't do the opposite.  The power is perfectly usable without "needing" any keybinds.  It is simply more versatile with them.

[TheMoncrief]

41 minutes ago, arcane said:

Development should never design powers assuming players will use binds/macros.

 

Both implementations are perfectly usable without any binds or macros. Both have faults. One implementation has faults that can be addressed, by players who care about them, through a bind or macro. The other has faults that cannot be addressed by players at all.

 

If targeting-radar made the power unusable, or absurdly hard to use, I might support converting it to an enemy-targeting power. Because you should not be required to use a bind or macro to use a power at all. That's the problem I've always had with the Teleport movement power. But it is a matter of convenience, not necessity, and enabling players to not have to bother customizing their UI to suit their needs. And I don't support that over a matter of convenience, when it is a change that would make life materially worse for people who actually like the powers as they function now.

 

The desire of one player to be lazy should never trump the desire of another player to have control over the way his power works.

 

[InvaderStych]

At the risk of sounding adversarial, which is not even remotely my intent - the poll is based on a false dichotomy. Both methods of selection have their place, and tools are available to give the player access to those options in most cases. One cannot alter Savage Leap or Feral Charge to give it a targeting reticle, but the converse can be done with Lightning Rod, Shield Charge, Burst of Speed, Jaunt, and Combat Teleport (by extension also Teleport) so that the destination is a targeted entity (Friend, Foe, NPC, or target-able object with some exceptions on that last one).

 

I'm not going to try to fathom why a set of simple key-binds causes such a kerfuffle, but I will say there is no reason to change any of the reticle based powers (or the two that require a target, imo). More options are better than fewer. Being able to *BAMF!* to a location as easily as I do to a target is one of the best mini-games in the Cities.

[SeraphimKensai]

I prefer the targeting "radar" I suppose because I write a lot of unique targeting binds for TP powers that wouldn't be possible otherwise, including some to back up or go straight up as quick mitigation tools.

[arcane]

Calling players lazy for not wanting to get into binds and macros is rather detestable bullshit but oh well.

[SupaFreak]

It wasn’t my intent to get keybind users against non-keybind users here, but seems it’s becoming that way.  I’m not easy to offend so you’re not bothering me that I am lazy and would prefer no keybind for targeting radar or at least the option in customization to not have the radar.

 

So I guess this discussion is becoming should we have the option to not have the targeting radar so that both sides are happy?

Edited January 24, 2024 by SupaFreak

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, SupaFreak said:

Just curious if others would prefer the "teleport to target" abilty of Feral Charge on these attacks as I would OR if people really dig that targeting radar.  

 

where's my neither option?

 

 

[Carnifax]

For target location attacks I use the macro 95% of the time so if it switched to target an enemy I wouldn't mourn the change. Very rarely its nice to place a shield charge in the middle, because the mobs are slightly spread out but that's solo. Never have time on teams so Macro it is. And it's not the end of the world if I couldn't do it any more. 

 

But I guess where do you draw the line? Blizzard / other rains is a target location attack and I like being able to finesse where that goes. Ditto for oddball things like Creepers (or Freezing Rain). Definitely would be annoyed if those changed. 

[Jeneki]

Always think one attack ahead.  When I'm using Shield Charge or whatever, I'm generally positioning it in a very specific spot to follow it up with some sort of melee cone.

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

For target location attacks I use the macro 95% of the time so if it switched to target an enemy I wouldn't mourn the change.

 

I would find this change frustrating. Here's an example as to why. (bearing in mind here that I get where you're coming from, just adding my thoughts)

 

Burst of Speed currently uses the location reticle. When I use a bind to powexec_location target, I can select any target-able entity. I often use this ability to target through a friendly, say for instance the team's "tank" or whomever is gathering the scrum.  Tank picks a spot, drops a Fold Space to gather a big, fat group, I BoS to the Tank's location via having them targeted, drop a nuke (or a dragon's tail, or whatever), joust out and commence blasting whatever is left. Tank moves on to setup the next scrum, rinse, and repeat.

 

Changing BoS to a targeted power means that, as a power that does damage, I could no longer activate it with a friendly entity targeted. There are tons of ways this can be used. BoS has a huge range when +range bonuses from things like Clarion are accounted for; sometimes it is useful just to catch up to the ninja who's found the objective on the map. Regular Teleport, when bound, also works well for this application. Losing the ability to bind to powexec_location target is a non-starter for me in every instance where it is currently relevant.

 

Call me dense, but I guess I am not seeing what needs to be changed here.

 

Travel powers like Jaunt, Teleport, CT, etc cannot be changed to targeted powers without severely hampering their usability, so that's off the table. Changing the remaining powers like BoS, SC, and LR doesn't make any sense to me either as all that does is impose limitations on their usage and reduce creativity in their application.

 

Folks don't want to use binds, cool with me, by all means don't. But I fail to see why anyone would insist that others who do want to use them should be stripped of that option by forcing location reticle powers to require an enemy target in the instance of powers that are attacks.

 

There are also instances where certain target-able objectives cannot be the target of a teleport attack as a side effect of their "cannot be teleported" flag. In this case the location reticle makes it possible to damage these objects with SC, LR, or BoS where as a targeted teleport attack like Leap/Feral cannot.

[SupaFreak]

16 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Call me dense, but I guess I am not seeing what needs to be changed here.

 

Not sure if someone here was, but I never was suggesting a change.

 

This is just a poll and discussion about preference, that's all.  Trying to figure out the popularity of each view.

 

Whether or not that would lead to a suggestion by someone in the future is just an end result of the discussion.

 

[Latex]

I like the choice of having it macro'd.

Burst of Speed for Blasters is much like Combat Teleport and I have it set up to go off where my cursor is on a keypress, teleport to target would mean I miss out on a ton of AOE damage.