State of the Market, post announcement

[Ukase]

On 3/28/2024 at 2:39 PM, TheSpiritFox said:

Also, for any flippers out there, what margins do yall go for? Is 1-3 million profit enough to flip for or do you work for bigger gains?

This magic number varies widely for me. After all, profit is profit. But, the AH slots are somewhat limited, at least per character. Initially, I didn't market much, but used merits to get catalysts - back when they were selling for 5m each. 
And then, I found a different sort of niche, where I would just catalyze ATOs and winter-Os and sell those. That was a very profitable time, as it was all before the winters ever went on sale. The ATOs were selling for 6-8M, and the Superior versions, particularly Brutes, were going for 15-20M
The Winters were selling for about 18-24, and the Superiors were selling for 27-35M. 

It was tedious grabbing unslotters and catalysts from email then, just as it is now, but you could go a little faster before it stopped letting you take more. 

Finally, I had enough to do actual manufacturing, as opposed to improvements or just conversions of merits to items to sell. And I had enough to do it on a decent scale, and finally to an obscene scale. 
Just this morning, I discovered 3 of 5 alts that were selling stuff had each made over 1B overnight. Mind you, that doesn't happen every night, of course, but it does happen. And, since the MS event, it's been happening faster- that is, in some niches, one alt was able to sell 197 items for almost 1.5B, and relist another 160 or so items, all within 10 hours. 

I am not sure if my competition in this area is just taking advantage of the MS by playing and not marketing, if they gave up, or if the demand has seriously increased. Perhaps both. 
But you asked about margins. Prior to page 5, my margins were about 5M per transaction. Now, it's closer to 3.5M. As far as percentages go, it's sometimes a bit more than 50%, and sometimes a bit less. 

[Andreah]

There's a few ways to think about margins, and the denominator is vitally important to me. That denominator might be market slots, minutes, of time, mouse clicks, or others I can't think of right now. A low margin effort sometimes worth it because it's quick and easy. High margins sometimes aren't worth it to me because they're neither. 

[Triumphant]

The main difference in the market since the last time I played (took a several months break and then returned, just over the past month, after the most recent update) is that the numbers seem to more readily and more accurately display the going price now.  Maybe I'm imagining that, but it does seem like the devs have tinkered with the code to fix (or, at least, ameliorate) the old problem of the price not showing or showing inaccurate numbers.

Overall, though, I still use the market the same way that I always have.  List everything for 1 influence and sell it as quickly as possible.  Get the cash that I need for whatever build that I need, then play the game.  I find the market boring.  I find buying and selling boring.  So I do it only as absolutely needed, make the transactions as fast as possible, and then get back to enjoying the bits of the game that I actually like (fighting baddies, building bases, making costumes, and rp'ing) as soon as possible.

 

To me, markets are just part of the grind, along with levelling.  I like end-game play.  If I had my way, I would just skip levelling and buying/selling altogether and just get straight to the stuff I like.  At least I can streamline the process through farming, double xp, and selling stuff quickly for 1 inf, though. 

[Andreah]

7 hours ago, Triumphant said:

Maybe I'm imagining that, but it does seem like the devs have tinkered with the code to fix (or, at least, ameliorate) the old problem of the price not showing or showing inaccurate numbers

This was a recent, and very welcome, fix they put in. 

[Ukase]

I can't speak for any of you - but I think this mapserver event has really driven demand up for all sorts of enhancements. 
From 10pm central time to 6am central time, I sold a TON of IOs. For over a billion. Again. I am seeing how much someone is paying for items that normally go for just a pinch more than 1/3 of what they just paid. I'm grateful, but I'm wondering if they're stoned, or just don't know any better, or just don't care. 

[Andreah]

38 minutes ago, Ukase said:

just don't care

For most of them, I think it's this. They have empty new slots; they're flush with inf, or feel like they are, and it's burning holes in their pockets.

[Hedgefund]

The mapserver event produces a lot of 50s but not a lot of "stuff".  I saw someone share a screenshot of being 50 and getting a "you got your first piece of salvage" notification after MSing to 50.  If I cared about the world of marketeering I would certainly view this as a good time for selling.  But I don't so I won't. 

[tidge]

On 4/7/2024 at 5:51 PM, Neogumbercules said:

Are you guys still converting uncommon yellow recipes or have your methods evolved? I've kinda gotten back into that converter rat race, buying up tons of yellows and converting them to something better. I'm doing zero fishing and just throwing everything I get on the AH for less than what it looks like they're selling for.

 

This has been my "steady state" approach to the market for... 2+ years, maybe? There is very little I feel I need Inf for, except when starting characters. As I play characters I will convert to

1. Build up the next batch of Inf for future characters.
2. Stockpile particular enhancements(*1) that I suspect I will use and don't want to buy off the market. Generally these are items that are 3M+ or otherwise in short supply.

During the Mapserver event, I took a grand total of two characters to level 50. Both of them were fully kitted only using pieces and recipes I had in storage.

 

(*1) I do have some clutter: enhancements I stockpiled but never got around to using. This includes a significant number of PVP pieces that I'd been meaning to roulette into pieces more likely to be used on future characters.

[Glacier Peak]

I'm still getting merit rewards and converting them to converters, then selling on the Auction House. This is the easiest and the way I have the most fun. I am thankful others find the converting process rewarding, otherwise I'd have to do it myself and I wouldn't make as much inf just selling converters.

[kito]

I got to 10 billion and stopped again only took a few weeks. Things are selling for more then they used to but looks like it's settling down some. 

[Neogumbercules]

I only get like 30-60 minutes to play a few nights a week, but I'm up to about a billion inf on my new guy now (my other farmer was inf capped so I went full "buy it nao!" for this new guy and spent 1b on his build).

 

His penance is that he has to build back that bill and mail it to my other toon as repayment.

 

I thought about trying to low-ball some of those 500m D-Syncs and flip them but for some reason I'm afraid!

 

Last time I went hardcore marketeering I would buy 100 super packs. I would always make more back then I spent but it was mind-numbingly tedious. I'm kinda considering doing that again just to see if it still works.

[Andreah]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:37 PM, Neogumbercules said:

Last time I went hardcore marketeering I would buy 100 super packs. I would always make more back then I spent but it was mind-numbingly tedious. I'm kinda considering doing that again just to see if it still works.

It still works, and in modest numbers, the tedium is not too bad. And the non-sellable drops are pretty nice to have in your email, too.

[Neogumbercules]

If there was one UI update I could get it would be an overhaul to the character item menu!

[wjrasmussen]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:10 AM, American Decoy said:

I generally sell rare enhancements.  There were two banner days after the announcements when I topped 999,999,999 in profits on each day.  It almost seemed like a job.  It has slowed down to a more enjoyable 250,000,000-per-day pace that I can minimize the market game and play on teams.

where do you get the recipes to make them?

[Andreah]

5 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

where do you get the recipes to make them?

You get uncommon recipes from mob drops or off the auction, craft them, and then use converters to convert them by rarity into uncommons in sets that have rare pieces too, then convert them in-set until they hit the rares in those sets, and then convert by rarity again until they turn into valuable rares to sell. You mix in converting by category (e.g., defense) to be a bit more efficient to use fewer converters. 

 

There are guides here and on youtube for how to do this in detail.

Edited April 14 by Andreah

[Oklahoman]

On 4/10/2024 at 9:02 AM, Glacier Peak said:

I'm still getting merit rewards and converting them to converters, then selling on the Auction House. This is the easiest and the way I have the most fun. I am thankful others find the converting process rewarding, otherwise I'd have to do it myself and I wouldn't make as much inf just selling converters.

 

I do this, too. Is there some easier way, though, to move them from salvage to AH? A slash command of some kind? I drag and drop 10 at a time, but when I've got a few hundred to move over it wears on my trigger finger.

 

Once I have them all moved over, I can input the price on the first one, then just keep clicking the same POST button area until they all go in.

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

 

I do this, too. Is there some easier way, though, to move them from salvage to AH? A slash command of some kind? I drag and drop 10 at a time, but when I've got a few hundred to move over it wears on my trigger finger.

 

Once I have them all moved over, I can input the price on the first one, then just keep clicking the same POST button area until they all go in.

Oh man, if you find out please share. It's a slog getting a stack of a thousand moved over - yeah the button smashing to get it posted is easier. At least once they are sold I can just hit a button to get my inf.

[Andreah]

6 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

I do this, too. Is there some easier way, though, to move them from salvage to AH? A slash command of some kind? I drag and drop 10 at a time, but when I've got a few hundred to move over it wears on my trigger finger.

There is not, sadly. All I can recommend is placing your salvage and auction windows so that you don't have to drag them very far, and the return key does hit the okay button. So you can click, drag, drop, return and have 10 drop in the auction. 

 

It may be tempting to use an external macro program to automate this, but that would be against the code of conduct.

 

On the other hand! If it were easy, more people might do it, and prices would drop. Tell yourself that while you are icing your sore fingers. :(

 

Seriously, take breaks, or break it up into small sessions of auctioning while you're idle from playing content, or similar.

[Monty Haull]

14 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

 

I do this, too. Is there some easier way, though, to move them from salvage to AH? A slash command of some kind? I drag and drop 10 at a time, but when I've got a few hundred to move over it wears on my trigger finger.

 

Once I have them all moved over, I can input the price on the first one, then just keep clicking the same POST button area until they all go in.

 

Now that ain't workin', that's the way you do it

Lemme tell ya, them guys ain't dumb

Maybe get a blister on your little finger

Maybe get a blister on your thumb

 

We got to slot, the latest enhancements, take down these baddies.

We got to move these gaming merits.

We got to convert, these recipes

[lemming]

5 hours ago, Monty Haull said:

Now that ain't workin', that's the way you do it

Lemme tell ya, them guys ain't dumb

Maybe get a blister on your little finger

Maybe get a blister on your thumb

 

We got to slot, the latest enhancements, take down these baddies.

We got to move these gaming merits.

We got to convert, these recipes

My Farmer, Influence for Nothin, with slightly different lyrics.

 

Now look at them yo-yo's that's the way you do it

You burn the mobs on the AE

That ain't workin' that's the way you do it Influence for nothin' and chicks for free

 

[Andreah]

"Hey GPT4, write lyrics to a parody song to "Dire Straits - Money For Nothing" using references to City of Heroes: Homecoming gameplay and popular player-memes."

 

(Verse 1)
Now look at them heroes, that's the way you do it
You're playin' on Homecoming, not on a private outfit
That ain't workin', that's how you do it
Heroes for nothing and inf for free

Now that ain't workin', that's the way you do it
Lemme tell ya, them guys ain't dumb
Maybe get a Mastermind, maybe get a Scrapper
We gotta move these badges, gotta move these IOs

(Chorus)
We gotta slap on purple sets, custom IOs
We gotta powerlevel our alts
We gotta grind for merits, and farm for inf
Playin' on Homecoming ain't for chumps

(Verse 2)
Now that's the way you do it, you play on Homecoming all day
That little Kheldian ain't dumb, he's an Incarnate, they say
That ain't workin', that's how you do it
Heroes for nothing and inf for free

(Chorus)
We gotta slap on purple sets, custom IOs
We gotta powerlevel our alts
We gotta grind for merits, and farm for inf
Playin' on Homecoming ain't for chumps

(Bridge)
Now look at that, that ain't workin', that's the way you do it
You play the game on Homecoming, that's the way you do it
You farm the AE, that's the way you do it
Lemme tell ya, them guys ain't dumb

(Chorus)
We gotta slap on purple sets, custom IOs
We gotta powerlevel our alts
We gotta grind for merits, and farm for inf
Playin' on Homecoming ain't for chumps

(Outro)
That ain't workin', that's how you do it
Heroes for nothing and inf for free
We gotta slap on purple sets, custom IOs
Playin' on Homecoming ain't for chumps
Heroes for nothing, inf for free

[TheSpiritFox]

On 4/8/2024 at 11:02 AM, Andreah said:

There's a few ways to think about margins, and the denominator is vitally important to me. That denominator might be market slots, minutes, of time, mouse clicks, or others I can't think of right now. A low margin effort sometimes worth it because it's quick and easy. High margins sometimes aren't worth it to me because they're neither. 

 

I feel this. I've gone back to dual box farming because converter crafting in the currently saturated market has become too low margin for me to participate in, things are moving more slowly because of the massive influx of new sellers and the relatively small growth in buyers. It started in normal enhancements, but in the last idk probably month it feels like its now hit all the markets. Everything is down. Hell, there was a point I was turning all my threads into super team duals and I was the only person with any listed, and I had like 150 listed at 1 mil each, a slow but reliable moneymaker. Now theyre regularly going for 250k as people got told you can liquidate threads that way and I havent sold a single inspiration in over a month out of the ones I still have listed (about 70 or so across 3 alts)

 

I'm hoping the market stabilizes soon but Ive had to pretty much give up on making money except by being super duper patient. Like I used to list and sell about 160 enh a week or so, do a double batch on my crafting character and theyd all be gone in a week. I've listed them all at reasonable prices, and I've sold 20 enh in the last week out of 160. The market is moving slow, reasonable listings undercut constantly by people who are desperate for any money and will happily take a 500k profit on an enhancement instead of being patient and listing for something more reasonable. 

 

That whole "making money off the impatience of others" bit isnt working atm because right now its the sellers who are the most impatient, not the buyers. 

[American Decoy]

On 4/13/2024 at 4:18 PM, wjrasmussen said:

where do you get the recipes to make them?

The recipes and salvage I get from game play.  But crafting rare enhancements to sell is usually a loosing deal.  I convert uncommon enhancements into rare enhancements.  And again, even crafting uncommon enhancements can be expensive.  Big secret, don't tell any one, but you can buy ready-made uncommon enhancements from the market at a lower price than you can craft them, in many cases.  The trick is setting up easy systems to buy, convert, and sell the enhancements quickly  in large amounts without pushing the market's sell-points too far from your buy/sell goals.  The CoH market is PvP.  PvP and co-op PvE.

Edited April 19 by American Decoy

[Xaddy]

So, I am not really seeing what some of you are seeing. 
To be clear, I'm only doing one thing, but if I state it here, others may crowd in, so I won't. But, I'm making an easy 2.5-4 M not counting the opportunity cost of converters. I read the guides here, got a very lengthy, thorough market tutorial from someone who clearly has no problem giving inf away. (I told him I wanted to earn it) 
Forty-five minutes later, I was armed with a lot of nifty insights. 

The rule of the market is simple: Supply and Demand. And the issue many face is the supply may be acquired outside of the AH. 
1. Drops
2. Merit Vendor
3. SG leaders leaving a fully stocked base for members
4. Recipe Rolls 

Of these, drops and merit vendor are likely the larger area to compete with. But, even so, there are areas where people are forking over influence just as they always have. Perhaps not as much as you might have seen a couple of years ago, but fairly consistent and stable. 

Just as an example: 
Oblit damage procs are still selling for 3m
Perf Shifter +end still selling for 3m
Power Transfer chance for heal, still selling for 3m

The various lower level proc-type IOs...some of them have reduced a bit from the 5m to 3m. But, given the cheaper crafting costs, it's still a decent profit. 

The key is to recognize whether or not you'd be better off just selling your converters, or using them. I suggest using them still. 

I was pondering how I was going to slot and choose a power on my corruptor when I saw a message about Kronos being in Talos. So, I went. Snagged not 6, but 12 merits, and then heard Kronos was in Steel, and grabbed another 30 merits and got another 12 in Skyway, and 18 more in Striga Isle. All within maybe 30-40 minutes. 

That's not the best in game, but it's pretty nice - and it was fun for me. We can't sell the Monstrous Aethers, but we can convert them to Prismatics, which are getting cheaper and cheaper over time. They were 3.1 a couple of days ago, when I looked, and now are 2.7m, but that could have just been a patient buyer, throwing me off. Certainly possible. 

I guess what I'm saying is there is still a ton of inf being earned in all these km itfs this week. They are going to spend that loot on something, right? 
I've made 700m in the past 3 days just bidding, crafting, converting and selling for about 15-25 minutes in the morning, and 15-25 minutes later in the day. There are a lot of niches in the market. Just look for one. 
And, if the prices are really that cheap...then you don't need to market or farm anymore. The inf you earn playing a 50 should be quite enough to subsidize any upcoming alts.