A "fix" for Force Field and Sonic Resonance?

[KelvinKole]

Many people out there may chime in and say Force Field and Sonic Repulsion are fine as is and don't need a fix, and they may actually be right. Both are effective sets at what they are designed to do, but I do think what they are designed to do doesn't always compliment the way the game is played. As proof of that, both sets are in the bottom of the barrel in terms of usage.

 

Force Field primarily buffs defense; This is good.

 

Sonic primarily buffs resistance; This is good.

 

Force Field is a bit worse off  that Sonic in that it offers literally no debuff ability and it's other core function, to knockback and repel things, isn't a highly desired mechanic; Many people are actually infuriated by it.

 

I'm offering one small suggestion that I think benefits both sets enough to boost their popularity and effectiveness. Remove the Capture Foe abilities from both sets (I don't think anyone will miss these) and replace them with a PbAoE or toggle absorption ability. Absorption is a relatively new mechanic, relative to the game's lifetime, and both sets thematically seem to be a natural fit for an absorption buff, i.e. shield. A click power that provides a strong absorption shield or a toggle that periodically pulses a small absorption shield would add to both sets ability to sustain a team and provide a mechanic that is not widely found in other power sets.

 

Live devs probably would not have been able to make this happen very quickly, but the homecoming devs could get it done. I have faith.

 

What do you say?

[Force Redux]

I'm all for this. I love FF, always have, but it needs to add something else... Absorpsion would be a great boon.

[Trickshooter]

How about instead of removing the Capture Foe abilities, they are changed to target both Friends or Foes, and have different effects based on which is targeted? We know this tech is now in the game (see Medicine/Injection). Targeting foes will have the original effect, targeting friends would grant Absorb. The names would probably need to change, since Sonic Cage and Detention Field don't sound very friendly, but thematically both effects could come from the same power and not seem too strange. You either trap your foe in a FF or Sonic bubble, or you put a sturdy bubble around an ally.

[_NOPE_]

/JRanger.

 

Also:

 

Force Field primarily buffs defense

 

BS. There's THREE powers that buff ally defense. Out of NINE. Would you say you "primarily sleep" because you spend a third of your life sleeping?

[KelvinKole]

/JRanger.

 

Also:

 

Force Field primarily buffs defense

 

BS. There's THREE powers that buff ally defense. Out of NINE. Would you say you "primarily sleep" because you spend a third of your life sleeping?

 

When no one cares about the other six, I'd say its primary function, as far as anyone cares, is to buff defense.

[Hyperstrike]

FF is a Tankfender primary with a mix of hard and medium control (Detention field and the various KB/Repel).

Simply because some people don't know how to harness the medium controls, and others can't appreciate those that DO is no reason to jack around with the set.

 

It's like booting a FF Defender from a group because "You're not healing!"

Also, if you REALLY hate the KB power THAT much, there are now options for converting KB into KD.

 

Sonic is also the basis for Tankfendering.  But it mostly trades its combat control aspects for buffing and debuffing.

 

Case in point:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Sonic Tank: Level 50 Magic Defender

Primary Power Set: Sonic Resonance

Secondary Power Set: Beam Rifle

Power Pool: Fighting

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Leadership

Power Pool: Flight

Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

 

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Sonic Siphon -- Acc-I:50(A)

Level 1: Single Shot -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(11), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(11), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(19), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(25), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(27)

Level 2: Sonic Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(7), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(9)

Level 4: Sonic Haven -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(7), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(9)

Level 6: Sonic Cage -- Acc-I:50(A)

Level 8: Disruption Field -- EndRdx-I:50(A)

Level 10: Kick -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(29), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(36), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(37)

Level 12: Sonic Dispersion -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(13), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(19)

Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(15), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(15), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17)

Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(17)

Level 18: Sonic Repulsion -- EndRdx-I:50(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(43)

Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(21), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(21), Rct-ResDam%:50(23)

Level 22: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(23)

Level 24: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(25)

Level 26: Clarity -- RechRdx-I:50(A)

Level 28: Disintegrate -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg:50(39), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb:50(46)

Level 30: Cutting Beam -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(33), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc:50(33)

Level 32: Liquefy -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold:50(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg:50(33), SprEnt-End/Rchg:50(34), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End:50(34), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg:50(34), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc:50(36)

Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(36)

Level 38: Piercing Beam -- JvlVll-Dam/End/Rech:50(A), JvlVll-Acc/End/Rech:50(39), JvlVll-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech:50(39), JvlVll-Acc/Dmg:50(50)

Level 41: Overcharge -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%:50(43)

Level 44: Lancer Shot -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Apc-Acc/Rchg:50(45), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Apc-Dam%:50(46)

Level 47: Penetrating Ray -- ExtMsr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), ExtMsr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), ExtMsr-Acc/ActRdx/Rng:50(48), ExtMsr-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg:50(48), ExtMsr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50), ExtMsr-Acc/Rng/Rchg:50(50)

Level 49: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB:50(A)

Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Vigilance

Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)

Level 4: Ninja Run

Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)

Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(37), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(37)

Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)

Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(40)

Level 50: Agility Core Paragon

Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface

Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement

Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally

Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany

Level 50: Support Core Embodiment

------------

 

 

 

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[_NOPE_]

Here's my "fixes" for FF.

[hastened]

I feel like Sonic doesn't need a fix? I'm not sure forcefields do either, but I can see more of a case for them.  I know Sonics aren't that common, but they're probably the second most desirable set behind kinetics if I'm looking to assemble a steamroller.  AOE -Res that can be applied every fight is where its at, and they have one of the best powers in the game for that.

 

Forcefields gets about 90% of its mitigation for a standard team from the three main powers, yes.  They're probably the three best defensive powers in the game.  It is kind of nice that you can get a strong core with so few power picks, since it lets you focus on power pools or blasting if you want to go in that direction, while the rest of the set is still useful if you want to focus on it more.  Repulsion Bomb does good work though, both as an AOE and as soft control.  Force Bubble is situational, but is really good for soloing, nontraditional teams that don't have any melee characters, or defending objective missions. 

 

In any case, if Force Field has a problem, its that the only thing it adds to a team that isn't having problems surviving is one AOE knockdown damage attack.  That means that if you're doing something where you're already pretty much never in danger, its not really contributing a whole lot.  Its whole design is centered around making the team extremely hard to hurt, and it does that really well at the expense of being the only defender primary with no way to boost the team's offense.  Giving it a +Absorb power doesn't really help with this.

 

From what I understand, the cage powers get significant use in PvP, though maybe that's not the case anymore since I don't PvP much and I know there were some pretty big balance changes back in I13 or whatever.  I would make sure you don't mess with the PvP use though before you go stripping them out.  The dual purpose version would be much more likely to be received positively, I think.

[KelvinKole]

FF is a Tankfender primary with a mix of hard and medium control (Detention field and the various KB/Repel).

Simply because some people don't know how to harness the medium controls, and others can't appreciate those that DO is no reason to jack around with the set

 

I know what both sets are designed to do, and I said in the OP that comments like yours are not incorrect; both sets do exactly what you say they do and mostly do it well. BUT, poll any number of people and the answer to which Defenders they'd prefer to team with most is probably not FF or Sonic, those are very far down the list. This is a problem of usability in a game that doesn't favor the use of these two sets anymore.

 

You could fight a long exhausting battle trying to convince people of what they should want, or you can just give them what they actually want and hopefully find a way not to sacrifice what you love to do it.

 

Here's my "fixes" for FF.

 

There's nothing wrong with any of your suggestions in there. Mine was just a simpler one to provide an easy, quick, improvement to the set.

[Bossk_Hogg]

/JRanger.

 

Also:

 

Force Field primarily buffs defense

 

BS. There's THREE powers that buff ally defense. Out of NINE. Would you say you "primarily sleep" because you spend a third of your life sleeping?

 

The real problem is it has no force multiplier and is pretty one dimensional. With people easily softcapping, and teams loathing knockback for good reason, it needs a boost. Absorb would be nice, as would ignoring the cottage rule due to repulsion field and force bubble being pretty redundant (and detention field being ass). No one on a good team really cares about the other stuff.

 

Same thing with Traps, another set with 4-5 decent powers.

[Bossk_Hogg]

FF is a Tankfender primary with a mix of hard and medium control (Detention field and the various KB/Repel).

Simply because some people don't know how to harness the medium controls, and others can't appreciate those that DO is no reason to jack around with the set.

 

Medium control is meaningless when hard control and kills are so easily available. The KB to KD enhancer made most of them irrelevant when blaster bonfires are keeping stuff perma flopping. You might be the only person I've seen defend Detention Field. Burn that cottage down.

[Ankhammon]

Having spent quite a few hours on a Sonic/Sonic back in the day, I would have 3 suggestions to help out a Sonic Resonance char.

 

A sleep resistance should have been added to Sonic Dispersion. Just a mag 2 or 3 would have been very helpful. Bubblers have to be hit for that to take effect, but Ringers are always hit.

the amount of mobs who had a sleep moment in their attacks by level 40 was absurd. I know they made a change to suppress instead of deactivate, but it wasn't helpful enough for solo content.

 

The recharge in Liquefy was set too high considering it's a patch that last 30 seconds on a 300 second recharge. Making it possible to be perma with lots of rech would make like much better for the Sonic Resonance char.

 

The last change I would provide is to make a melee pet out of one of the Villain Patron sets. That would allow the Sonic char the ability to have a Disruption field on the pet or even sonic Repulsion adding lots of variability in play.

 

All this would make the char more playable solo or in teams. Just my two cents

 

 

and I used the Sonic Cage a lot of the time. It let me go against higher levels than I could have done without, got some heal totems out of the way. escape plan for an EB... stuff like that.

[Hyperstrike]

BUT, poll any number of people and the answer to which Defenders they'd prefer to team with most is probably not FF or Sonic, those are very far down the list.

 

Maybe it's just my inner jerkface talking.  But I really don't CARE what others' "preference" is.

 

If people haven't learned how to slot in ANYTHING and use it properly at this point...well...I stopped headbutting every monolith I came across year ago.

 

This is a problem of usability in a game that doesn't favor the use of these two sets anymore.

 

You've said it yourself.  The problem is with the people, not the power set.

 

You could fight a long exhausting battle trying to convince people of what they should want, or you can just give them what they actually want and hopefully find a way not to sacrifice what you love to do it.

 

 

That's just it.  I don't feel the need to pander to people who simply can't wrap their head around the set.

[plewto]

I use all my forcefield powers with the exception of detention field and that only comes out when soloing. If other forcefield defenders are only using three of their powers, that might be a clue as to why they're low on the defender list.

[Crowcus Pocus]

While I don't have a viable solution to it, I would much rather see almost every other set getting a considerable nerf (especially Time and Cold).

 

That said, here are a few changes to FF that I find viable to implement (individual suggestions, not necessarily as a whole):

 

Force Bolt & Repulsion Bomb: add minor -Def (non enhanceable)

Detention Field: turn it into a Mag 2 hold, with -Rech, -Speed and -Regen. (Non stackable secondary effects)

Force Bubble: -Speed and -Recharge to foes who break inside the bubble

 

I'm too sleepy to comment on Sonic for now. I'll revisit this topic tomorrow.

 

 

[KelvinKole]

While I don't have a viable solution to it, I would much rather see almost every other set getting a considerable nerf (especially Time and Cold).

 

Sets like Radiation Emission, Kinetics, Empathy, have been in the game forever and I wouldn't say Time or Cold are much better than those. All of those sets are on par with each other; they each do different things, but are good at what they do and are desirable sets.

 

Speaking for force field specifically, I do like the idea that it be a primary buff and positional control set, so I wouldn't add any debuffs. For balance though, it needs to be very good at those two things and because IOs make defense capping so easy for many archetypes, it needs something else. Absorption seemed logical to me.

 

[Bossk_Hogg]

I use all my forcefield powers with the exception of detention field and that only comes out when soloing. If other forcefield defenders are only using three of their powers, that might be a clue as to why they're low on the defender list.

 

My mind controller used all his powers too. That doesn't stop mind control from being weak.

[Crowcus Pocus]

While I don't have a viable solution to it, I would much rather see almost every other set getting a considerable nerf (especially Time and Cold).

 

Sets like Radiation Emission, Kinetics, Empathy, have been in the game forever and I wouldn't say Time or Cold are much better than those. All of those sets are on par with each other; they each do different things, but are good at what they do and are desirable sets.

 

Saying Time doesn't outperform in general PvE content is quite a stretch. But what I meant was that defense takes too big of a role in this game. To me, it makes resistance buffs, aggro management, and crow control much less impressive and needed in a team.

 

By the way, I'm all for constructive criticism. It's just my opinion. I'm 100% thankful to be able to play this game in 2019, no matter my own personal tastes when it comes to balance.

[KelvinKole]

By the way, I'm all for constructive criticism. It's just my opinion. I'm 100% thankful to be able to play this game in 2019, no matter my own personal tastes when it comes to balance.

 

For real.

[plewto]

I use all my forcefield powers with the exception of detention field and that only comes out when soloing. If other forcefield defenders are only using three of their powers, that might be a clue as to why they're low on the defender list.

 

My mind controller used all his powers too. That doesn't stop mind control from being weak.

I guess we could give FF a pet maybe it will fix it.

[oedipus_tex]

I think by any reasonable measurement both Force Field and Sonic Resonance deserve buffs based on the current state of the game.

 

 

FORCE FIELD

This set is in a weird place, because the bubbles are legitimately good. Where it falls completely flat is on its supposed "offensive" side.

 

 

REPULSION BOMB: A Mag 2 stun with a quick-ish recharge sounds ok until you look at the agonizing animation. Speed it up to around 2 seconds and the power is...okay at least.

 

FORCE BUBBLE: I don't even know what to say. Might be marginally more useful if you had the choice of whether to wear it on your character or place a psuedo pet on the ground.

 

FORCE BOLT: It's occasionally mildly useful, but why not give it something to make it actually useful. The effect is similar to a Pay 2 Win power that is free; this version is improved only in that it is more accurate. After the initial enemy is knocked back can we make this power bounces between multiple enemies similar to Electric Control's Jolting Chain or have it in a radius like Propel now does? Also wouldn't be opposed to this being a straight up Tier 1 Blast power in strength. Or even adding a new effect like adding a chance to Dispel a buff effect from the enemy.

 

Also, I can see Force Bolt having the effect "Instantly cancels any Absorb the enemy may have." A lot of enemies don't have any Absorb, because it was so new, but it's a unique mechanic.

 

OTHER COMMENTS

I agree with the OP that Absorb should make some kind of appearance in this set.

 

 

 

 

SONIC RESONANCE

This set fares slightly better than FF. Overall endurance usage is too punitive. Too many powers fail to live up to potential.

 

 

DISRUPTION FIELD. Lower endurance cost of from 1.04/sec to 0.52/sec. No reason for it to be as high as it is. The current endurance cost completely wrecks some potential builds, such as Fire Control/Sonic Res based on toggle costs alone.

 

LIQUEFY. We are in an age where nukes are crashless and recharge in 2.5 minutes yet this power has a 5 min recharge. Based on what this power does, a correct base recharge time should be around 90 to 120 seconds, not 300.

 

CLARITY. It's an anti-mezz in a set that already has an anti-mezz bubble. The +Perception has some usefulness at least.

 

[Apparition]

While I don't have a viable solution to it, I would much rather see almost every other set getting a considerable nerf (especially Time and Cold).

 

Nerfing Cold and Time would just honk off a large number of players.  I agree that they both make Force Field redundant, but the answer is to change Force Field to make it competitive.  How is the question.

 

Saying Time doesn't outperform in general PvE content is quite a stretch. But what I meant was that defense takes too big of a role in this game. To me, it makes resistance buffs, aggro management, and crow control much less impressive and needed in a team.

 

By the way, I'm all for constructive criticism. It's just my opinion. I'm 100% thankful to be able to play this game in 2019, no matter my own personal tastes when it comes to balance.

 

Resistance buffs and crowd control are definitely beneficial in a team.  People can (and usually do by endgame) softcap their own defenses, but outside of some Brutes and Tankers, not so much resistances.  They're going to get hit at some point, even with softcapped defense.  Same thing for crowd control.

 

LIQUEFY. We are in an age where nukes are crashless and recharge in 2.5 minutes yet this power has a 5 min recharge. Based on what this power does, a correct base recharge time should be around 90 to 120 seconds, not 300.

 

CLARITY. It's an anti-mezz in a set that already has an anti-mezz bubble. The +Perception has some usefulness at least.

 

I agree with Liquefy.  It has such a high recharge time that I sometimes forget to even go back to it after I use it once.

 

Clarity is good for Rikti mothership raids due to all the danged sleeps that Dispersion Bubble and Sonic Dispersion let through.  I have a level 50 Thugs/Sonic Mastermind as my main.  I sit in the middle of the bowl, let the pets do their thing and have a good time mowing down Rikti, while I keep firing off Clarities on my teammates while alternating firing off Rebirth Destiny and Judgement every two minutes.

[KelvinKole]

 

 

DISRUPTION FIELD. Lower endurance cost of from 1.04/sec to 0.52/sec. No reason for it to be as high as it is. The current endurance cost completely wrecks some potential builds, such as Fire Control/Sonic Res based on toggle costs alone.

 

LIQUEFY. We are in an age where nukes are crashless and recharge in 2.5 minutes yet this power has a 5 min recharge. Based on what this power does, a correct base recharge time should be around 90 to 120 seconds, not 300.

 

CLARITY. It's an anti-mezz in a set that already has an anti-mezz bubble. The +Perception has some usefulness at least.

 

These are all excellent points for Sonic. Fully agree with your  notes on disruption field and liquefy. I actually didn't believe the recharge time on liquefy was 5 minutes and had to look it up; that's absurd.

 

Clarity does add some mez protection from types that are not covered by Sonic Dispersion, though they are not very common.  It could easily have a +psi resistance buff added to it. That would jive with the rest of the set and cover a big hole

[chi1701]

Both force bubble and detention field are useful but very situational.

As for detention field, it be modified to work like one of the incarnates, half toggle so you can deactivate early but if left it will run its time and auto deactivate for cd.

 

As for force bubble, if played right, can be very effective in crowd control and to protect ranged players from melee attacks, so I personally would rather this not be changed, an endurance reduction would hurt though.

 

Problem that I find with both sonic and force field is if the team cannot fully rely on this as their only defence as they cannot replace lost HP during combat and you still need another player who as access to team heals. If both sonic and force field could gain access to either heals or regen, to me would help increase their viability but at the same time, this could also cause balance issues if they can replace dedicated healers.

[HelenCarnate]

/JRanger.

 

Also:

 

Force Field primarily buffs defense

 

BS. There's THREE powers that buff ally defense. Out of NINE. Would you say you "primarily sleep" because you spend a third of your life sleeping?

 

People spend less than 1/3 of their lives working and are often defined by what they do for a living.