A "fix" for Force Field and Sonic Resonance?

[SmalltalkJava]

A small HOT on FF and Sonic would absolutely rule!  Nothing big but just a small HOT

[LiquidBandage]

I agree that they both make Force Field redundant, but the answer is to change Force Field to make it competitive.  How is the question.

 

One way to force multiply is to make it possible for AoE attacks to hit more targets. When mobs are all spread out, AoEs hit fewer targets or you have to maneuver to maximize a cone. Some tanks will take advantage of aggro caps and Line of Sight to pack as many mobs as possible into a tight space.

 

Now, a power like Repulsion Field (force field) "violently repel enemies". That is one way to break up a mob, clear a doorway and potentially CC mobs (they have to spend time standing back up). What if an enhancement was created to alter the repel into an attract to push mobs towards yourself (reverse the direction of the repel)? The endurance cost would need to be evaluated so it could not be actively pulling for a long time, but also not so limited that you powersink yourself into automatic toggle shutdowns. Under this change, you could herd a pack of mobs without having to rely on terrain features and you would have to actively monitor how long you wanted the power to be online.

 

The ability to quickly & easily gather mobs would provide a force multiplier to the group. They would still need to CC & AoE them down, but they would still be subject to AoE target caps.

[_NOPE_]

/JRanger. Repulsion Field is my primary defensive power. No touchie!

[oedipus_tex]

Is Repulsion Field a good power? I look at this way:

 

Repulsion Field is nearly the same power as Whirlwind from the Speed pool, with minor adjustments. Whirlwind costs more Endurance per activation, but, ironically, taking it on a set that has endurance management tools that FF does not have makes it much easier to use. If I really wanted to mess with a Repulsion-like effect I'd go with /Cold Domination, still get the shields, but be capable of maintaining my endurance bar with Heat Loss while knocking back whatever I felt like.

 

I usually don't do this, because even with bottomless endurance, Whirlwind is not amazing. It stands to reason then that Repulsion Field, which appears in a set with no endurance management tools at all, is not amazing. I do think Repulsion Field ticks somewhat faster than Whirlwind but in a set that does not provide additional Endurance this tends to be a bad rather than good thing.

 

I think there are plenty of ways to buff this power without destroying its original purpose. One of them is to drop or eliminate or even reverse the endurance component of the power. Some might argue that's overpowered but since Whirlwind is the same power and can be used on sets with bottomless endurance it stands to reason that Repulsion Field wouldn't suffer.

 

 

[oedipus_tex]

By the way, it seems completely reasonable to me that +Range would be a buff that Force Field could provide. This would lengthen/widen cones and allow the team to stand further away than normal, plus jive overall with the knockback in the set. There isn't any powerset in the game that provides this, and as far as I know only a single power (Boost Range in the Blaster secondary sets).

 

If people feel this effect better matches to Sonic, the Clarity power would be a good power to attach it to.

[KelvinKole]

By the way, it seems completely reasonable to me that +Range would be a buff that Force Field could provide. This would lengthen/widen cones and allow the team to stand further away than normal, plus jive overall with the knockback in the set. There isn't any powerset in the game that provides this, and as far as I know only a single power (Boost Range in the Blaster secondary sets).

 

If people feel this effect better matches to Sonic, the Clarity power would be a good power to attach it to.

 

That's an interesting idea and I like it better for Force Field.  Clarity already gives perception and I would rather see it get a psionic resistance buff to help cover that hole for a lot of classes and powersets.

[rebussohal]

What Sonic Resonance really needs is a minimalfx version of Sonic Dispersion. The horrible bubble on that power right there is the #1 reason I dislike playing my sonic and dislike teaming with any sonic.

[chi1701]

Wouldnt mind seeing a complete change to the defenders inherent, as a FF defender, the endurance reduction is a wasted because if the team is going down, having access to more endurance isnt going to change anything.

[Burnt Toast]

Well thankfully nerfing is not gonna happen. If anything other sets may be revisited to see if they can be improved. Sorry you feel Time and Cold are OP...I personally think Rad and Kin are OP, but I wouldn't call for them to be nerfed.

 

 

While I don't have a viable solution to it, I would much rather see almost every other set getting a considerable nerf (especially Time and Cold).

 

That said, here are a few changes to FF that I find viable to implement (individual suggestions, not necessarily as a whole):

 

Force Bolt & Repulsion Bomb: add minor -Def (non enhanceable)

Detention Field: turn it into a Mag 2 hold, with -Rech, -Speed and -Regen. (Non stackable secondary effects)

Force Bubble: -Speed and -Recharge to foes who break inside the bubble

 

I'm too sleepy to comment on Sonic for now. I'll revisit this topic tomorrow.

[Force Redux]

Chiming in a bit late here, but after a period of long thought, here are my (modest) thoughts. Many reflect what's already been said, but I love FF, so I want to say my peace too:

 

1. Personal Force Field. Perfect as is.

 

2. Deflection Shield. Perfect as is.

 

3. Force Bolt. Give it Tier 1 blast damage power. This would make it handy for Controllers who may need a good damaging power to use with Containment, and for others (such as Defenders or Corruptors) it is valuable for the fast KD/KB that it provides without giving up some basic rotational damage.

 

4. Insulation Shield. Perfect as is.

 

5. Detention Field. Leave it. Make this a single target Hold.

 

6. Dispersion Bubble. Perfect as is.

 

7. Repulsion Field. This overlaps with Force Bubble, although they operate in different ways. It has, however, been a power subject to much discussion and often little use on teams (I almost never see it used, and I've been in since the old Beta through sunset).  This is the one area I'd suggest ignoring the 'cottage rule' and ask for the power to match Dispersion Bubble's radius, and turn it into a toggle with similar END costs that does two things:

 

      a. Periodic Absorption buffer to everyone within. Prevent some of the leak-through or auto-hit damage and help bolster up the Defense.

      b. Applies some modest DDR to everyone within. Since FF's main strength to assist team mates is to give +DEF, a 20% defense debuff resistance wouldn't be out of place.

 

8. Repulsion Bomb. Fairly good. Perhaps tighten up the activation time to just under 2 seconds, and bump up the damage about 10%.

 

9. Force Bubble. For a Tier 9 this is both 1) very situational and 2) rather lackluster.  Part of it is the endurance cost. I'd suggest:

 

      a. The END cost should be reduced. Perhaps a 10 to 50% reduction in cost for the toggle (depending on the perceived value of the items below). 

      b. Reduce the size of the thing. Right now its very easy to aggro right through walls and it is often unwieldy.

      c. Apply a -Movement/Slow to anything that is in the field. This will also allow for some IO sets/procs that would make this power a bit more interesting, as well as compensate for the smaller area, for at least things within it would move more slowly and predictably. If FF is about area denial, then let's let the capstone power provide some more.

 

That's it. I hope HC's devs will keep some of these in mind. Thanks!

[Hedgefund]

Hey FFers, check out the Sudden Acceleration kb>kd proc in Repulsion Field.  Nice eh? 

 

My 2 inf is that with prior changes to Repulsion Bomb + SA in Repulsion Field, FF is [] this close to getting there.  Maybe more like [  ].

 

Sudden Acceleration may help Sonic Repuls as well, at least to take it from the "why would I ever take that?" list.  Still, even with its kb converted to kd, I'm not too jazzed about it for the end cost.  At least with Repulsion Field, you're the owner of which mobs get knocked down.

[hastened]

Yeah, I think the Sonic Repulsion is far too end expensive to be worth it with the knockback->knockdown IO.  I actually think it is better without it, though still pretty bad.  It lets you push enemies away from vulnerable players/targets, which is generally not considered valuable enough to be worth a power but at least could be used strategically in some circumstances.  Without the knockback kicking the enemies out of the aura though, its going to suck you dry almost instantly.

[_NOPE_]

Hey FFers, check out the Sudden Acceleration kb>kd proc in Repulsion Field.  Nice eh?

It IS really nice. I've got that in Repulsion Field now, along with all of the other IO Knockback Procs, in a frankenslotting situation. It's pretty sweet.

[oedipus_tex]

The thing that still irks me about Repulsion Field is its the same power as Whirlwind from the Speed pool. It does require two Speed powers to access it, but one of those is Hasten which is a given for most builds, and the other is Super Speed which is useful for its invisibility. I'd much rather have Whirlwind on a character with endurance management tools than a Force Fielder who has none. The only real benefit I can see for FF'ers is their Dispersion Bubble keeps them from getting mezzes (barring Sleeps), which is something, I suppose. I still don't see many/any characters taking Whirlwind, KB to KD proc or otherwise.

 

 

[Lazarillo]

SONIC RESONANCE

 

DISRUPTION FIELD. Lower endurance cost of from 1.04/sec to 0.52/sec. No reason for it to be as high as it is. The current endurance cost completely wrecks some potential builds, such as Fire Control/Sonic Res based on toggle costs alone.

 

LIQUEFY. We are in an age where nukes are crashless and recharge in 2.5 minutes yet this power has a 5 min recharge. Based on what this power does, a correct base recharge time should be around 90 to 120 seconds, not 300.

Just these two things, really, and Sonic's in great shape.  Still not going to be soloing it in many cases, but nothing I'd complain about.  Too much.

[Leogunner]

I believe I suggested it before on the old forums, but a change to give FF a team offensive multiplier while still being somewhat unique would be just adding effects on your teammates attacks. For example :

 

Force Patch (name pending) - friend targeted AoE click, add smashing damage to all attacks. Kind of like adding a 100% chance damage proc with a chance to knock back as well.

[Redlynne]

Counter-proposal.

 

 

 

I'd settle for adding a -Range Debuff effect to all of the Force Field powers that can attack/affect Foes, forcing them to "get in closer" than they otherwise would have wanted to and offering an asymmetrical Range Advantage to the Force Field bubbler.  That's because if you can successfully outrange your opponent(s), you can attack them while they can't attack you.

 

You'd want to rig it, game mechanically speaking, so that each Force Field attack power would have a Effect does not stack from same Caster modifier on the -Range debuffing attribute so as to encourage a repeat use of those attack powers in order to refresh/sustain/deepen the stack of -Range debuffing on your $Target(s).

 

 

 

Note that this would open up an opportunity for a variation on a them with the Sonic counterpart, in that you could rig the Sonic counterpart to NOT have the Effect does not stack from same Caster modifier on its attack powers, but the Sonic versions offer a lower -Range debuff amount which has a longer duration ... meaning that Sonic would need to "ramp up" to reach (and surpass?) the amount of -Range Debuffing that Force Field offers, placing a greater "load" on the Sonic version to cast those attack powers (repeatedly) in order to achieve a comparable "depth" of debuff stacking.

 

 

 

Either way, design with an intent for getting the -Range Debuff stack up around -50% or so on a Defender (less on other Archetypes, of course) with a full rotation of attacks and call it a day (from the Powers Design standpoint).