Genned for the first time in years...

[WuTang]

  On 2/8/2024 at 1:40 AM, biostem said:

It's mostly to CYA and by having it in the rules/ToS, it covers CoH:HC in the event that someone tries to claim that they are letting infringers run rampant or otherwise encourage the behavior...

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On WoW there was no shortage of hunters named Leggolass or any other variant nor were we lacking of Gnomes named after any one of the Hobbits. But as I said, I'll abide by the rules, I just think this concern is a tad overblown. But, as soooo many have pointed out, and something that I've learned, it's best not to pigeonhole your hero in name, makes for limits and limits are no fun. As an example I gave a hero the name "Pocket Giant" his physique was the big hulking body but his stature was as short as possible. But, not knowing powersets very well, I chose savage/bio, this did not work with a name that included giant, no matter how diminutive his size. Also, for me at least, flying for a giant is a no-go, another limiting factor. So renamed him. Same goes for an IP hero, Wolverine for instance can't fly, no super jump, and no speed, so to stay true to character he's not going to get around Paragon very quickly.

Just my 2cents...

Edited February 8, 2024 by WuTang

[ZemX]

  On 2/7/2024 at 11:40 PM, Ael said:

Not the one.

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Nobody listens to Zathras.

[ZemX]

  On 2/7/2024 at 5:37 PM, Shenanigunner said:

Rest in peace beyond the rim, Ciitzen G'Kar. You were... perfect:

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I bet you were reported by the guy who wrote the "Book of K'Gar" for that one radio mission.

[Player2]

  On 2/7/2024 at 7:20 PM, Captain Fabulous said:

I got copyright generic'd once, but I fought it and was reinstated.

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Me too!  I made Cousin Psyche, whose costume was identical to Sister Psyche except for face and hair.  Generic'd.

 

I inquired with Cuppa Jo, pointing to the fact that no dev uses Sister Psyche as the representative, and even though my character looked different and should be identifiably not the signature hero... it's still their trademark/copyright.  I got an immediate response of no, that should be fine, and not long after my character's costume and name were restored.  I guess it was an over-ambitious GM who tagged me.  But it was good to get my Cuz back.

[Shenanigunner]

  On 2/8/2024 at 1:03 PM, ZemX said:

Nobody listens to Zathras.

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The story of my life. I have actually said, in business and consultation meetings doing a PM on some disaster, "...but nobody listen to Zathras." There's always one person who gets it... and gets it. And then explains to the clueless ones what they're missing, taking the heat off of me.

 

It's a nicely elegant way, sometimes, to say "I effin' told you so."

 

Edited February 8, 2024 by Shenanigunner

[biostem]

  On 2/8/2024 at 12:58 PM, WuTang said:

On WoW there was no shortage of hunters named Leggolass or any other variant nor were we lacking of Gnomes named after any one of the Hobbits.

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But you can't quite duplicate such signature characters in WoW like you can in CoH.

[WuTang]

  On 2/8/2024 at 11:09 PM, biostem said:

But you can't quite duplicate such signature characters in WoW like you can in CoH.

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CoH has the superior character creation for sure, but it's not like LotR nor any other fantasy IP characters are very distinguishing. Long ears, long blonde hair, bow and arrows and you've got, well pretty much any Elf in LotR. And then you name the toon Legolas and they'll be just as much an offense to the IP as anything CoH can produce. And CoH doesn't have any way to modify faces so it's just the outfit that sells the possible infringement, that, and maybe the name.

 

Wolverine is the comic I read most often and have a real good idea of how Logan dressed in the 90s. Take into account that CoH provides me with exact duplicate of his unique claws. The Claws fighting style and stances are Wolvey all day long. Now add to that that Wolverine many times fought in street clothes, I mean, any Claws hero is within a razor's edge of an IP infringement based on how some here feel. Again though, rules are rules and everyone should abide.

 

I'm not advocating for anyone to break the rules, but it won't ever be me that reports someone for how they're dressed.

 

By comparison though, WoW profits millions with millions of subscribers, CoH is a nonprofit with 10s of thousands of players. Just saying, no one is coming for CoH, so we can prob dial it down a bit. And those numbers is not me taking a shot at Homecoming, I have no ill feeling towards WoW, but since I found CoH, I've not played a second of it.

Edited February 9, 2024 by WuTang

[biostem]

  On 2/9/2024 at 1:31 PM, WuTang said:

CoH provides me with exact duplicate of his unique claws.

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The question isn't whether you *can* duplicate signature or copywritten characters, it's whether you allow it and/or enforce those that do violate such prohibitions.

[Water]

  On 2/9/2024 at 1:31 PM, WuTang said:

...And CoH doesn't have any way to modify faces so it's just the outfit that sells the possible infringement, that, and maybe the name...

 

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Incorrect.

 

[ivanhedgehog]

  On 2/8/2024 at 4:43 PM, Player2 said:

Me too!  I made Cousin Psyche, whose costume was identical to Sister Psyche except for face and hair.  Generic'd.

 

I inquired with Cuppa Jo, pointing to the fact that no dev uses Sister Psyche as the representative, and even though my character looked different and should be identifiably not the signature hero... it's still their trademark/copyright.  I got an immediate response of no, that should be fine, and not long after my character's costume and name were restored.  I guess it was an over-ambitious GM who tagged me.  But it was good to get my Cuz back.

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I had back alley broiler which looked like BAB with a chicken head. they never had a problem.

[Clave Dark 5]

  On 2/8/2024 at 12:58 PM, WuTang said:

I just think this concern is a tad overblown.

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The game was literally taken to court in its early days for copyright violation:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Lawsuit

 

Seeing as how Disney now owns the brand Marvel, I think it's just being prudent.

[WuTang]

  On 2/10/2024 at 8:04 AM, Clave Dark 5 said:

The game was literally taken to court in its early days for copyright violation:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Lawsuit

 

Seeing as how Disney now owns the brand Marvel, I think it's just being prudent.

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Touche my friend...

Edit:

Ok the "touche" stands but only because Disney is now the owner, and I don't trust them... but there's this....

 

"Marvel subsequently admitted^[67] that some of the allegedly infringing characters cited in the complaint had been created by Marvel's own investigators. In March 2005, the court struck those exhibits from the complaint.^[68] The court also dismissed with prejudice^[69] some of Marvel's claims. The dismissed claims included all indirect trademark infringement counts, because Marvel had not pleaded commercial use of Marvel's marks by the game's players. Commercial use is a required element of infringement under American trademark statutes."

 

Our created heroes, in 99.9% of cases, will not be for commercial use, so no infringement. But as I keep saying, rules are rules and we should abide.

Edited February 10, 2024 by WuTang

[WuTang]

  On 2/9/2024 at 8:40 PM, biostem said:

The question isn't whether you *can* duplicate signature or copywritten characters, it's whether you allow it and/or enforce those that do violate such prohibitions.

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Don't cherry-pick a quote to make a point. The entirety of that paragraph included the fact that just making a Claws hero put you within the narrow definition of an IP infringement based on how people here feel about it. And it's not just allowed in this case, it's default. I mean, sure we could all just not select Wolvey's claws and then make sure to never pick black hair or make the hero short and stocky. But....

 

Thanks to a link provided by @Clave Dark 5 

I learned this today:

"Commercial use is a required element of infringement under American trademark statutes."

 

So "legally" you can put your Captain America clone, Capt. Paragon, on a coffee mug, you just can't sell'm. BUT, that's against the rules here, so don't. 

Edited February 10, 2024 by WuTang

[WuTang]

  On 2/9/2024 at 8:58 PM, Water said:

 

Incorrect.

 

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Yeah....my newbness is on full display there..

 

Edit:

And BTW, you know how much more creation time that's gonna add to my new heroes! Why oh why did you show me this?!

Edited February 10, 2024 by WuTang

[Skyhawke]

This topic inspired me to pull this guy out of the mothballs!

 

 

Edited February 10, 2024 by Skyhawke

[Doc_Scorpion]

  On 2/10/2024 at 1:17 PM, WuTang said:

Our created heroes, in 99.9% of cases, will not be for commercial use, so no infringement.

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That's... not how it works.  While "commercial use"* is one of the factors to be evaluated in determining Fair Use, not being commercial is not a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

*It's actually way more complicated than that.

[Greycat]

  On 2/9/2024 at 1:31 PM, WuTang said:

By comparison though, WoW profits millions with millions of subscribers, CoH is a nonprofit with 10s of thousands of players. Just saying, no one is coming for CoH, so we can prob dial it down a bit. And those numbers is not me taking a shot at Homecoming, I have no ill feeling towards WoW, but since I found CoH, I've not played a second of it.

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You can guarantee no copyright holder of a superhero (or magic, cartoon, etc.) IP will *ever* come to COH and check things out? Ever?

 

Besides, while not privy to what agreement was signed and all the details between here and NCSoft, I'd call it a safe bet that part of it involves running it much like live as far as stewardship, copyright, etc. goes - and the flip side of that is that a copyright holder has to take steps to defend their copyright. Doesn't matter if it's Marvel vs DC or Dark Horse vs tiny little MMO community. We don't want that sort of attention - and being able to show policing and enforcement does nothing but help us.

[WuTang]

  On 2/10/2024 at 3:46 PM, Greycat said:

 

You can guarantee no copyright holder of a superhero (or magic, cartoon, etc.) IP will *ever* come to COH and check things out? Ever?

 

Besides, while not privy to what agreement was signed and all the details between here and NCSoft, I'd call it a safe bet that part of it involves running it much like live as far as stewardship, copyright, etc. goes - and the flip side of that is that a copyright holder has to take steps to defend their copyright. Doesn't matter if it's Marvel vs DC or Dark Horse vs tiny little MMO community. We don't want that sort of attention - and being able to show policing and enforcement does nothing but help us.

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I'm glad you ignore me saying with pretty much every post "to abide by the rules of CoH." 

 

Take a step back and maybe not be so angry.

But if not you do you boo. I've pretty much said all I plan to say on this subject, obviously it's a sensitive one....for some.

[Perfidy]

To my knowledge, I have no copyright infringements, though one character has the name of the title of a book. I have seen a couple of characters fly under the radar for a spell. No idea if they ever got flagged/caught. 
I've seen plays on celebrity names...Carol Burnit comes to mind. Mr. Warmth, and I swear the character looked very much like a heavier Don Rickles. But I don't think those names quite cross the line. 
 

[WuTang]

  On 2/10/2024 at 3:40 PM, Doc_Scorpion said:

That's... not how it works.  While "commercial use"* is one of the factors to be evaluated in determining Fair Use, not being commercial is not a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

*It's actually way more complicated than that.

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Ok one last reply...cause I didn't see this one. The judge "dismissed the claim of infringement with prejudice." That means it can never be brought back to court.

 

The following is not directed at you @Doc_Scorpion

 

BUT PLEASE EVERYONE....PLEASE FOLLOW THE RULES AND DO NOT IN ANY WAY, FORM OR FASHION, CREATE A HERO OF AN EXISTING IP. I AM IN NO WAY ADVOCATING THE USE OF ANY CLONE OF ANY IP IN EXISTENCE. 

 

Just please remember to have fun and don't take things so seriously.

Ok now I'm done. Nothing but love for yuns.

[Clave Dark 5]

  On 2/10/2024 at 1:44 PM, WuTang said:

Don't cherry-pick a quote to make a point. The entirety of that paragraph included the fact that just making a Claws hero put you within the narrow definition of an IP infringement based on how people here feel about it. And it's not just allowed in this case, it's default. I mean, sure we could all just not select Wolvey's claws and then make sure to never pick black hair or make the hero short and stocky. But....

 

Thanks to a link provided by @Clave Dark 5 

I learned this today:

"Commercial use is a required element of infringement under American trademark statutes."

 

So "legally" you can put your Captain America clone, Capt. Paragon, on a coffee mug, you just can't sell'm. BUT, that's against the rules here, so don't. 

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"Legally" they were taken to court because those with the money get to call more of the shots when it comes to such things. 

 

I can understand your frustration though.  This is one those times that yeah, best to just sigh heavily, glare at your screen, and then move on.

[Doc_Scorpion]

  On 2/10/2024 at 4:05 PM, WuTang said:

Ok one last reply...cause I didn't see this one. The judge "dismissed the claim of infringement with prejudice." That means it can never be brought back to court.

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That means that particular claim cannot be brought back before the court.  It does not forestall future claims of infringement.  It does not in any way protect CoH/Homecoming from Marvel filing suit for infringement.

[ivanhedgehog]

  On 2/10/2024 at 3:46 PM, Greycat said:

 

You can guarantee no copyright holder of a superhero (or magic, cartoon, etc.) IP will *ever* come to COH and check things out? Ever?

 

Besides, while not privy to what agreement was signed and all the details between here and NCSoft, I'd call it a safe bet that part of it involves running it much like live as far as stewardship, copyright, etc. goes - and the flip side of that is that a copyright holder has to take steps to defend their copyright. Doesn't matter if it's Marvel vs DC or Dark Horse vs tiny little MMO community. We don't want that sort of attention - and being able to show policing and enforcement does nothing but help us.

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and just getting a legal filing against us would be the end. Lawyers are expensive.

[Scarlet Shocker]

  On 2/9/2024 at 8:58 PM, Water said:

 

Incorrect.

 

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.. and the scales fell from his eyes...

[Hyperstrike]

  On 2/7/2024 at 6:33 PM, Snarky said:

You knew better than to name him Barbie.

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Captain Barbenheimer.