Help me decide Bots/?

[Xandyr]

Hey all.

 

 So, I've not really played Bots since Live, and I figured it's time to remedy that.

 

I'm toying with pairing it with FF or Rad maybe? I think the-to hit, -Resist, and the extra -Regen from Rad would be kinda cool. Would the -to hit (and heal)be enough to to keep the pets alive?

 

And how do most slot the pets in order to fit the def/resist Pet IOs?

 

I know FF is the classic pairing.

 

I may be persuaded to go /Electric. 

Thanks for any input/suggestions/ideas!

[TheSpiritFox]

I would go /dark over /rad. Only one toggle on /dark and otherwise a great set, plus fluffy from Dark can mule pet IOs. 

 

/elec is really good. Less offensively powerful than dark or traps, but insanely powerful defensively especially if you invest in an expensive recharge build. 

 

/time is actually kinda the new /ff. It goes well with everything and is more fun and does more stuff than Forcefield. Staggering amounts of -recharge to enemies. 

[biostem]

Give electrical affinity a look;  It's a great set, (more so once you throw in a few binds or macros to make the most out of the chaining mechanic).

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, TheSpiritFox said:

fluffy from Dark can mule pet IOs. 

 

Since when? Is this on Beta because Fluffy has never been able to slot pet IOs. The only MM secondary power that can is Storm Summoning's Tornado. 

 

I tried Rad a long time ago but found it kind of boring. The start of the fight is setting up the 3 or 4 toggles. I believe the toggles' radius were small but I could be wrong or it may have been changed. I didn't like Fallout and Mutation were useless while soloing since they do not work on pets. But maybe it might be worth checking out just for fast pets. Every time a Rad or Kin is on the team, "Omg, it's Christmas," comes to mind as I marvel at my pets zipping around.

[Force Redux]

Status protection on FF is always great... Especially if you exempt down and lose access to Clarion.

[Neiska]

IMO, Time, Electric, Dark, FF, and Traps are all great choices.

 

Time - Easy to softcap DEF, heal and recharge buffs, pretty good debuffs.

Electric - Fantastic durability for you and pets, pretty much infinite END, status immunity

Dark - King of the debuffs. Robot/Dark is kind of a hidden gem as you don't see many of them, but they are fantastic together.

FF - DEF and status in spades.

Traps - Robo/Trap still a top contender for soloing, even today.

 

I have had the best results with Time, Elec, and Dark personally.

[kelika2]

Bot/trap for longterm strength.  after level 50 with frankenslotting hamis to max acc/dmg/endred/defense, ff gen and maneuvers you can softcap pets

bot/trick for lots of offense.  oil slick can be lit by your photon grenade or your bots energy sprays.  flash arrow is also the backbone of the set its insane

bot/dark is the ageold classic.  all the -tohit stacks with your bots +defense very well

i never tried bot/time but sounds nice on paper

 

whatever you pick having a snare pit goes best with bots.  with the level 26 upgrade the firepits made by your assbot causes a lot of fear.  caltrops, glue arrow, dark pit, etc

[tidge]

I dislike the idea of Robotics/FF, mostly because Robots benefit more from a debuffing secondary than a defensive one. Traps, Time, Dark would be before FF.

 

Here is the slotting I use (Robots/Traps) for just the primary powers:

 

Spoiler

------------

Level     1:            Battle Drones   

 (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage: Level 50

 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

 (*) Sovereign Right – Accuracy/Damage

 (*) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus

 

 

Level 2:                 Pulse Rifle Burst

 (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy/Damage

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Endurance

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Recharge

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Recharge

 

 

Level  6:                Equip Robot      

 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - +7.5% MaxHP

 

 

Level 8:                 Photon Grenade             

 (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage

 (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime

 

 

Level 12:              Protector Bots  

 (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Defense Buff IO: Level 50+5

 (*) Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus

 (*) Call to Arms: Defense Aura for Pets

 (*) Call to Arms: Accuracy/Damage

 

 

Level 18:              Maintenance Drone

 (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

 

 

Level 22:              Assault Bot        

 (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura: Level 50

 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance, +Resist (All) +Regen(Pets): Level 50

 

 

Level 26:              Upgrade Robot

 (A) Healing IO: Level 50+5

 

EDIT: I noticed this has a Defense Buff 50+5 in Protector Bots. After the introduction of Maintenance Drone I observed that the Protector Bots are making a LOT more attacks (yay!) and depleting Endurance faster than previously (boo!) so I swapped this for a Boosted Defense/Endurance piece. There is a marginal decrease in group defenses, but the Protector Bots now have consumption similar to the T1 henchmen.

 

 

While leveling up, I don't rely on the MM attacks... so I don't really use slots on them until later. The secondary powers will almost certainly need slots. If the secondary powers don't need slots, then it was probably a poor choice of secondary!

Edited February 10, 2024 by tidge
added note about Protector Bot slotting

[Force Redux]

FWIW, Force Field now does some -Resist debuffs on Force Bomb and Repulsion Bolt, plus it has the debuff power mitigation/protection in Dampening Bubble. 

 

Also, repulsion field doens't suck the blue bar dry, so it is very easy to keep foes at a distance. Works quite nicely with ranged sets like Robots or Mercs. FF isn't all Defense these days, though it is still it's calling card. 

Edited February 10, 2024 by Force Redux

[CaptainLupis]

On 2/10/2024 at 5:01 AM, StrikerFox said:

 

Since when? Is this on Beta because Fluffy has never been able to slot pet IOs. The only MM secondary power that can is Storm Summoning's Tornado. 

 

I tried Rad a long time ago but found it kind of boring. The start of the fight is setting up the 3 or 4 toggles. I believe the toggles' radius were small but I could be wrong or it may have been changed. I didn't like Fallout and Mutation were useless while soloing since they do not work on pets. But maybe it might be worth checking out just for fast pets. Every time a Rad or Kin is on the team, "Omg, it's Christmas," comes to mind as I marvel at my pets zipping around.

I've never really understood why it can't take the recharge intensive pet sets, it seems like it should be able to but for some odd reason can't.

[Riverdusk]

Probably late to the party, but had to mention /cold since surprisingly no one else did.  Easy to defensively soft cap bots with cold similar to force field.  In addition you get all the other goodies cold has.  Heat Loss also solves the endurance issue bots now seem to have.   

[Maelwys]

Bots/ pairs pretty well with almost any secondary; it really repends what you want from the character.


I've played Bot/Dark and Bot/Traps extensively, but my favourite is a Bot/Kin.

It works reasonably well (it was *very* well prior to the recent patch that crippled Bonfire) - Speed Boost and Transference counter your henchies' endurance woes, Increase Density fills in useful gaps in their Damage Resistance and Mez Protection; and Transfusion is a solid AoE heal with -Regen debuffs baked in. Plus, obviously, Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift makes your pets' AoE damage output completely skyrocket.

Unfortunately it's impossible these days for a Bot/Kin to softcap their pets' defence solo without Incarnate abilities (the Assbot and Drones used to be able to hit >45% back when Protector Bot bubbles double-stacked) but they can still reach around 36.6%, so a single Support Core Embodiment or +Defence AoE Inspiration will softcap them.

Running Barrier Core Epiphany is also capable of softcapping all your pets for the first 60s of its 120s duration (providing you're running a +Defence Alpha Slot like Agility Core Paragon to increase its default buff slightly!) and if you combine it with a Lore Slot support pet that has a +defence buff (such as Warworks, Robotic Drones, IDF or Clockwork) then it can push your henchies over the softcap during the rest of the time.
+ The Warworks and IDF and Drones Lore support pets have an AoE +5% Defence bubble that constantly cycles "on for 10 seconds then off for 10 seconds" plus a fast-recharging Single Target Heal/Mez Protection buff.
+ The Clockwork support pet has a Single-Target +5% Defence bubble that can keep four of your henchmen bubbled constantly (it targets the oldest pets first, so summon your Assault Bot before the rest!) plus a slightly-slower-recharging Single Target Heal.
+ The Talons support pet has an AoE up-for-20s-down-for-25s +5% Defence/+10% DmgRes buff and a ST Heal.
+ The Seers support pet has a ST +5% Def buff in Fortitide which can only affect one pet at a time; plus a ST Heal.
+ The Arachnos support pet has an AoE +10% Defence buff with 90s uptime; but it'll only get it off once per summoning (so 90s every 15 mins).
I typically run with Warworks, since the LT deals decent and consistent -Regen debuffs; which when combined with Bot/ attacks and Transfusion can halt an AV's regeneration.

        


For "normal" gameplay rather than "farming" it can help to run Clarion Core Epiphany instead of Barrier, since no native mez protection for the Mastermind themselves can make things a bit iffy (although the henchmen being immune to everything due to their native protections plus ID helps drastically). Mine is currently sitting at roughly 50% Defence to all positionals with just Maneuvers and Combat Jumping running plus the Protector Bot shield and a smattering of set bonuses; but they've got no real noteworthy damage resistances, so a few henchmen tend to stay in Bodyguard mode just in case!



Until recently a large part of this character's soloing performance at endgame (fighting endless hordes of +4s) relied upon Bonfire from the 'Flame Mastery' Epic Pool with a KB>KD IO slotted. Since the Page 7 nerf, Bonfire remains useful for pure survivability (it has a reduced radius and a slightly lowered KD rate... but it still reliably flops enemies that remain within the radius) however it has become far less useful for keeping enemies bunched up - too many enemies now manage to flee out of the area of effect, which means that they escape your Swarm Missile Burn patches and also become much more awkward to catch in a Fulcrum Shift.

I'm currently experimenting with other options (like Repel combined with Web Envelope/Electrifying Fences) but am yet to settle on a new optimal setup.

That said, if you bring a duo buddy (or second account) with a Taunt or AoE immobilise etc. then it's still a crazy effective combo.
Same goes for any teams short of +4 Hardmode TFs (where /Kin is always appreciated, but continually resummoning the Drones can get annoying!)


[EDIT:]
I spent quite some time this evening testing a number of possible new combinations on Brainstorm. It looks like it's currently a toss up between Mu Mastery (Repel with a KB>KD IO, plus Electric Fences can keep things neatly bunched up) or Fire Mastery (Bonfire with a KB>KD IO, plus Fireball with a 'Superior Frozen Blast: Chance for Immob' Proc - the Immob proc triggers just often enough to keep a sufficient number of foes within the bonfire). The first setup gives you greater survivability by way of Charged Armor, however keeping Repel up in the middle of a big horde of enemies is a major endurance drain and basically requires you to spam Transference. The second setup gives you greater damage output due to Fireball's better numbers plus an extra 'Annihilation -Res' Proc in Bonfire; but the Immobilise proc gets less reliable as enemy level/rank increases. Mace Mastery performs worse than both due to the long animation time on Web Envelope, and Scorpion Shield is useless since you're already softcapped.
 

Edited March 11, 2024 by Maelwys

[Bacon Wrangler]

@Maelwys

 

Could you post your build for bots/kin? I'm only level 7, but have been wondering if I'd made a mistake with /kin (while fully acknowledging my habit of biting off more than I can chew at low levels)

 

[Maelwys]

13 hours ago, Bacon Wrangler said:

@Maelwys

 

Could you post your build for bots/kin?

 

Yup no worries. I've been flicking between two:

Mastermind - Robotics - Kinetics (Bonfire).mbd

Mastermind - Robotics - Kinetics (Elec Fences).mbd

The Elec Fences build is quite a bit tougher (due to the Damage Resistance Shield) and Repel+ElecFences is very nice mitigation in most content; and keeps foes nicely bunched up for the Assbot's Burn Missiles. Repel, however, suffers from Endurance Issues whenever you find yourself surrounded by well-beyond-the-aggro-cap foes in a farming run (which is pretty common for me - unlike most farming builds, Bots/ are excellent against Psionic Melee foes in AE, especially with Barrier and Increase Density running... their resistances are tailor-made for it, and all MM Pets are immune to -recharge debuffs!) - it's doable, but I found I needed to keep spamming Transference on cooldown; which got annoying rather quickly.

So personally on Homecoming I'm currently still sticking it out with Bonfire. Luckily they've reverted the duration nerf so that it's now perma again (albeit with a smaller radius than before and *very slightly* lower KD chance). Occasionally I'll bite off more than I can chew + faceplant... but, well, that's what Rise of the Phoenix is for.

If I alternate between my Barrier Destiny (at least +9% Def for the first 60s, then +6% for the last 60s) and Support Hybrid (+14.4% for 120s, then nothing for 120s) my pets can stay Softcapped most of the time. Any extra from Lore Pet buffs etc. is just Gravy.

EDIT: You'll notice that (aside from the epic pools) both builds have largely the same slotting, with the notable exception of the set IOs in the Assault Bot and Protector Bot powers which are reversed. Testing has proven that I can stick the four SMoS Set IOs in either of those pet powers; it really just depends on what unique IOs you want available whilst exemplaring. The Protector Bots probably gain the most benefit from the additional Endurance Reduction; but both them and the Assbot will eventually run dry of endurance if you're constantly fighting (even with Speedboost up) so it doesn't really matter which you pick - you'll still need to occasionally use Transference to top them up!
 

Edited March 11, 2024 by Maelwys

[Bacon Wrangler]

Thanks! You've most likely saved this character for me!

[CaptainLupis]

On 3/10/2024 at 7:12 PM, Bacon Wrangler said:

@Maelwys

 

Could you post your build for bots/kin? I'm only level 7, but have been wondering if I'd made a mistake with /kin (while fully acknowledging my habit of biting off more than I can chew at low levels)

 

One of the best temp powers in the game for dealing with the low levels is the stun grenade from the START vendor. I find them particularly useful on MMs which don't have great low level henchies but blossom later, like bots. A much underrated power IMO.

[Bacon Wrangler]

I never even considered that! I need to see a lady about some explosives tonight!

[Vinceq98]

Yeah I've learned that the temporary power stun grenades really help out pets survivability. It's a mag 3 stun that recharges quickly and if you have high to hit buffs or defense Debuffs lands well enough. If you use oppressive gloom you can even CC bosses as you hug them and launch a stun grenade in their face. No more trying to heal your pets if enemies are all CCed. Always buy a max stack when I log in and solo x8 missions. Don't use them in teams because teams just steamroll mobs down. 

[Judge Jetson]

On 3/10/2024 at 6:27 PM, Maelwys said:

Yup no worries. I've been flicking between two:

Mastermind - Robotics - Kinetics (Bonfire).mbd

Mastermind - Robotics - Kinetics (Elec Fences).mbd

The Elec Fences build is quite a bit tougher (due to the Damage Resistance Shield) and Repel+ElecFences is very nice mitigation in most content; and keeps foes nicely bunched up for the Assbot's Burn Missiles. Repel, however, suffers from Endurance Issues whenever you find yourself surrounded by well-beyond-the-aggro-cap foes in a farming run (which is pretty common for me - unlike most farming builds, Bots/ are excellent against Psionic Melee foes in AE, especially with Barrier and Increase Density running... their resistances are tailor-made for it, and all MM Pets are immune to -recharge debuffs!) - it's doable, but I found I needed to keep spamming Transference on cooldown; which got annoying rather quickly.

So personally on Homecoming I'm currently still sticking it out with Bonfire. Luckily they've reverted the duration nerf so that it's now perma again (albeit with a smaller radius than before and *very slightly* lower KD chance). Occasionally I'll bite off more than I can chew + faceplant... but, well, that's what Rise of the Phoenix is for.

If I alternate between my Barrier Destiny (at least +9% Def for the first 60s, then +6% for the last 60s) and Support Hybrid (+14.4% for 120s, then nothing for 120s) my pets can stay Softcapped most of the time. Any extra from Lore Pet buffs etc. is just Gravy.

EDIT: You'll notice that (aside from the epic pools) both builds have largely the same slotting, with the notable exception of the set IOs in the Assault Bot and Protector Bot powers which are reversed. Testing has proven that I can stick the four SMoS Set IOs in either of those pet powers; it really just depends on what unique IOs you want available whilst exemplaring. The Protector Bots probably gain the most benefit from the additional Endurance Reduction; but both them and the Assbot will eventually run dry of endurance if you're constantly fighting (even with Speedboost up) so it doesn't really matter which you pick - you'll still need to occasionally use Transference to top them up!
 

@Maelwys could you let me know what ae farm your running with the above builds? 
 

Thanks

[Maelwys]

On 12/31/2024 at 11:55 PM, Judge Jetson said:

@Maelwys could you let me know what ae farm your running with the above builds? 
 

Thanks

Whenever I farm on that MM (and I still do occasionally despite the Bonfire nerf) it tends to be on one of the Asteroid Maps; with a custom enemy group that deals primarily either Ice or Psychic damage. Both Ice Melee and Psychic Melee have Smashing and Lethal mixed in; but Psychic Melee has less (really just TK Blow and Psi Blade) so it's a smidge easier for the Bots to deal with; and neither has particularly worrisome mez effects.

EDIT: also, FWIW I've tweaked the build since then and now run with these:
Mastermind - Robotics - Kinetics (Bonfire).mbd (regular gameplay and farming. Uses Talons Radial Lore, Barrier Destiny + Support Hybrid)
Mastermind - Robotics - Kinetics (-Regen).mbd (for soloing particularly nasty Lv54 AVs. Uses Longbow Radial Lore, Barrier Destiny + Support Hybrid)
  

Edited January 2 by Maelwys

[Judge Jetson]

Thanks. Lots of 50+ but only one other MM, Thugs/Poison. I’m thinking I want to do a bots and appreciated all the knowledge you shared. Thanks again and you’d recommend kin over cold, time, ff? 

[Maelwys]

1 minute ago, Judge Jetson said:

Thanks. Lots of 50+ but only one other MM, Thugs/Poison. I’m thinking I want to do a bots and appreciated all the knowledge you shared. Thanks again and you’d recommend kin over cold, time, ff? 

"Recommend" is a strong word.

My Bots/Kin is powerful, certainly. It can comfortably farm and solo AVs (including the Crimson Prototype from Market Crash which annoys several of my Melee ATs) but it's also VERY busy and takes a lot of work to micromanage properly.

And endgame teams tend to prefer anything other than a MM unless they're very casual and not running any door missions; because the T1 and T2 henchmen are lower level (and so suffer a lot from purple patch on non-incarnate content) and pets in general still partially block corridors and clutter up line of sight. That said; even *WITHOUT* pets a Bot/Kin is pretty valuable due to Kinetics buffs and lots of -Regen from the rifle attacks...

If I was to pick a MM to recommend these days, it'd be a /Marine. And likely Mercs (much easier to play) or Demons (a smidge better damage; but akin to herding kittens).
Something like one of these: zMastermind - Mercs - Marine.mbd zMastermind - Demons - Marine.mbd

[TheSpiritFox]

With Bots, Traps=Time=EA=Dark=Marine>everything else though they each have different strengths and weaknesses, any of them can solo +4x8 pretty easily if you dump money on their heads and know how to slot. 

 

[Maelwys]

That list could do with a shuffle IMO. Marine is quite simply miles ahead of the rest at the moment regardless of your primary powerset.

 

Bots/Marine can run with its henchmen at the Def Softcap and MaxHP Hardcap with respectable resistance levels and still achieve ridiculously short Pylon times. It won't quite output raw single target damage as quickly as a Mercs or Demons, but the tradeoff is better AoE damage plus >21% Def to all from the Protector Bot Bubbles and additional -Regen.

 

 

Regarding the other secondaries mentioned there for Bots/:

IMO Time is the one with the next highest performance ceiling after Marine. Time's one weakness is low -Regen and Bots provides that in spades.

Traps specialises in halting AV Regeneration but it is glacially slow moving and still can't solo a level 54 AV as fast as a Marine.

Dark is a very good secondary (stackable Tar Patch carries a lot of weight by itself) but it has a higher performance ceiling on other primaries as Bots simply do not require all that -ToHit and Healing.

Elec Affinity is slower to move and set up than most of the other secondaries with similar or lesser buff/debuff values even under optimal conditions.

Kin and Cold whilst not listed both also have their inherent disadvantages largely offset by Bots/ toolkit and are surprisingly decent.

 

Edited January 1 by Maelwys

[Auroxis]

Force Field is generally overlooked since it's seen as a vanilla powerset and pairing, but after the buffs to the powerset and certain MM epic power picks it's become quite a strong pairing with bots. You can softcap yourself with bots fairly easily, you have some -res, a proc bomb, and you get CC protection which frees up a Destiny slot for either Rebirth or Ageless. The softcap and CC protection means you can be fairly aggressive with your attacks, as combining your procced-out Force Bomb with more aggressive power picks (like Fold Space and Mu Mastery's Thunder Strike+Electrifying Fences) turns you into less of a stereotypical boring AFK mastermind and more of a sentinel with powerful pets, which shores up the DPS issue with bots. Bots also gives you -regen which FF lacks.

Edited January 1 by Auroxis