Ninjutsu or Super Reflexes

[WuTang]

I have a MA/Nin just got him. But I was wondering after playing to level 8ish if SR would be better. I didn't know Nin came with a stealth, not sure I like it. With MA is one better at the end than the other? Also does the Endurance drain get any better? I didn't see any power that helps.

 

I grouped with an MA the other day and the style looked really cool and he was hitting like a truck.

 

Thanks!

[Sechs]

Both are good tbh, i have a MA/SR and a staff/nin scrap, both 50 T4, they both perform very well.

Stealth is quite useful, it allows you to chose your fight, and to start wih a crit most of the time.

Both sets can soft cap defense with ease, even with IO (got to take fighting and leadership power pools)

 

I found that NIN was easier to level, since it has a click + endurance and a click + life, SR doesn't. But SR is quite easy to level too, once you reach soft cap and/or slot +heals procs.

MA is cool looking, eagle claw crits a lot, but MA set isn't a very high damage dealer. The attack chain looks cool and is very fluid, that is why i play a MA/SR as a "main" character since i discovered the game, back in the days (geez i'm so old :p)

[ZorkNemesis]

Don't sleep on /Nin's stealth.  It has the extra effect of giving you a buff to crit rate if you're "hidden" (in this case, 8 seconds without attacking or being attacked).  It can make for a big opener when you engage.  Stack it with a +Stealth in Sprint for full invisibility so you can position better.

[Erratic1]

2 hours ago, WuTang said:

I didn't know Nin came with a stealth, not sure I like it.

 

You don't know if you like a 70% chance to crit hit by attaching from stealth? Is that like not knowing if you like cake and ice cream?

 

You do you. Personally I enjoy making AoE critical attacks from stealth.

 

[WuTang]

15 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

Don't sleep on /Nin's stealth.  It has the extra effect of giving you a buff to crit rate if you're "hidden" (in this case, 8 seconds without attacking or being attacked).  It can make for a big opener when you engage.  Stack it with a +Stealth in Sprint for full invisibility so you can position better.

See, did not know that. And that's why I thought to ask rather than reroll. Thanks!

Edited February 28 by WuTang

[WuTang]

31 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

You don't know if you like a 70% chance to crit hit by attaching from stealth? Is that like not knowing if you like cake and ice cream?

 

You do you. Personally I enjoy making AoE critical attacks from stealth.

 

Yeah I didn't realize it did that. Thanks!

[biostem]

3 hours ago, WuTang said:

I have a MA/Nin just got him. But I was wondering after playing to level 8ish if SR would be better.

Ninjitsu is like a swiss army knife;  You've got the base level defenses, then a self heal, a self end recovery power, stealth, a confuse/blinding cone and a placate.  SR does one thing and does it well, (ignoring the scaling DR since you need to be hurt for it to kick in).  I have played both fairly extensively, and for overall content, I prefer ninjitsu.  That being said, if you combine SR with a set that meshes well with it, (for me that's DM or RM), it'll be a better experience.  

[HelenCarnate]

Love Ninja.  Button to heal when you need it, another button to recover endurance and a ton of easy ways to soft cap and beyond along with the ability to stack massive recharge with set bonuses around 190% ish.  And yea way easier to stealth through missions when you feel like it with either super speed or a stealth IO in sprint.

 

The only main drawback vs is a greater risk of cascading failure for your defense if you get hit with a -Defense attack.  

[WuTang]

12 hours ago, HelenCarnate said:

Love Ninja.  Button to heal when you need it, another button to recover endurance and a ton of easy ways to soft cap and beyond along with the ability to stack massive recharge with set bonuses around 190% ish.  And yea way easier to stealth through missions when you feel like it with either super speed or a stealth IO in sprint.

 

The only main drawback vs is a greater risk of cascading failure for your defense if you get hit with a -Defense attack.  

Ha! Always a hole....

Does the Stealth in Ninja hinder escort missons?

Edited February 28 by WuTang

[WuTang]

13 hours ago, biostem said:

Ninjitsu is like a swiss army knife;  You've got the base level defenses, then a self heal, a self end recovery power, stealth, a confuse/blinding cone and a placate.  SR does one thing and does it well, (ignoring the scaling DR since you need to be hurt for it to kick in).  I have played both fairly extensively, and for overall content, I prefer ninjitsu.  That being said, if you combine SR with a set that meshes well with it, (for me that's DM or RM), it'll be a better experience.  

Thanks! Actually thank you all!

Going to stick with it. I played more last night and after a better understanding, thanks to you all, I appreciated Ninja a good deal more. Now, hahaha I'm less sure about Martial Arts. Just kidding it fits the hero perfectly.

It sounds like it's Stalker-lite, but with a few more benefits.

Edited February 28 by WuTang

[ZorkNemesis]

24 minutes ago, WuTang said:

Ha! Always a hole....

Does the Stealth in Ninja hinder escort missons?

 

Most escorts will not follow you if you have a degree of stealth active and you'll have to turn it off if you want them to follow.   Generally any NPCs that can't attack are the ones who won't follow if you have stealth but combat NPCs usually have no trouble.

[HelenCarnate]

2 hours ago, WuTang said:

Ha! Always a hole....

Does the Stealth in Ninja hinder escort missons?

Yes, but if you go crazy with your build like I do, you can have your stealth off and still be around 45% defense.  (44.7 AOE is my lowest defense without stealth and not counting incarnates)

[WuTang]

1 minute ago, HelenCarnate said:

Yes, but if you go crazy with your build like I do, you can have your stealth off and still be around 45% defense.  (44.7 AOE is my lowest defense without stealth and not counting incarnates)

Thanks! Haha and I like you name. Great play on words.

[Uun]

One of the big differences between SR and Nin is defense debuff resistance (DDR). SR can cap this, Nin can't. SR laughs at defense debuffs.

[nihilii]

I strongly feel /nin is the superior set out of the two, once you use the T9. This renders the DDR disparity moot and leaves /nin with a versatile array of tools.

Of course, using T9s at all is an opinionated choice. The picture will be more even if we excluse T9s.
 

Still, it should be said /nin has an easier time at T9s than any other powerset due to click mez + 0 cost end click. Which makes crash recovery flexible, independent from external conditions.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

I strongly feel /nin is the superior set out of the two, once you use the T9. This renders the DDR disparity moot and leaves /nin with a versatile array of tools.

I'm not taking a position as to which set is superior. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. I will note that the SR and Nin T9s are identical but there's no need to take it or use it with SR. 

[Frosticus]

I'm in lock-step with @nihiliion this one.

Once you get a taste of a t9 build you will struggle to go back.

 

Does anyone need unlimited endurance, unsupressed superspeed, and enough defense to ignore all but the most extreme tohit buffs?

 

The crash is supposed to be a hurdle  but in the case of (scrapper/sentinel) /nin it is barely an inconvenience.

[WuTang]

42 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

Does anyone need unlimited endurance, unsupressed superspeed, and enough defense to ignore all but the most extreme tohit buffs?

I do....I do.....I DO!

Edited February 28 by WuTang

[Shadowstorm06]

@Frosticus @nihilii as a newer player, Ninjitsu seems like a winner. How does it hold up endgame compared to other scrapper secondaries? Also, are there any attack sets you feel pair well with it? Katana seems like a thematic fit, but any synergy with others?

[UltraAlt]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:14 PM, WuTang said:

I have a MA/Nin just got him. But I was wondering after playing to level 8ish if SR would be better.

 

Obviously, I'm going to say make a couple of both.

 

It really depends on how you play.

Are you trying to mini-max or go for character conception?

If you are going for character conception then go for that works on the character.

 

The difference between super reflexes and ninjitsu is that ninjitsu is sort of halfway toward being a stalker.

 

If I were going the more Bruce Lee route, I would obviously go with the ma/super reflexes.

If I was going the more toward the Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, I would go with the ma/ninjitsu (or just go Stalker).

 

I've also made the ma/inv iron body/golden bell characters.

There are just lots of ways to go once  Wu Xia (or Wuxia or however whoever has decided it is supposed to be romanize this week) is involved.

 

To me it is more of relating to the character than trying to make them some sort of perfection within the game rules.

Another way to word it, I have fun from playing the character versus trying to defeat the system.

[HelenCarnate]

58 minutes ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

@Frosticus @nihilii as a newer player, Ninjitsu seems like a winner. How does it hold up endgame compared to other scrapper secondaries? Also, are there any attack sets you feel pair well with it? Katana seems like a thematic fit, but any synergy with others?

Ninja goes with almost everything.  Radiation and Spines not so much unless you only care about the defense bonus and not stealth component.  Otherwise you would need to turn off and on your damage aura toggle depending on if you wanted to sneak around or not.  Not a deal breaker, just an extra thing to deal with.  Personal favorites are Claws, TW, and my overall favorite Street Justice. 

 

Edit, I can't type

 

Scrapper (Street Justice - Ninjitsu).mbd

Edited February 28 by HelenCarnate

[Frosticus]

59 minutes ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

@Frosticus @nihilii as a newer player, Ninjitsu seems like a winner. How does it hold up endgame compared to other scrapper secondaries? Also, are there any attack sets you feel pair well with it? Katana seems like a thematic fit, but any synergy with others?

All kinds of synergy to be found.

For example  - Em/nin using the boosted crit chance of shinobi to get double focus.

Or fueling the high endurance burn of TW/Axe/stone melee with byoko

 

That said, you should 100% play what you are interested in. Every primary is good and every secondary is viable. There is no need to make concessions if something thematically appeals to you.

 

 

[Thraxen]

I much prefer SR.  Ninja is cool too though.  I have a TW/Nin that carries around Excalibur.  And stealthy too.  The ninja heal is cool.  SR's ddr is unmatched.  The Ninja end power is fine too but I generally build to not need it.  Ninja has more powers you can skip for pool powers and such though.  SR you only skip  elude generally.  It is fine to have nowadays if you do star level content.  

[WuTang]

17 hours ago, Thraxen said:

I much prefer SR.  Ninja is cool too though.  I have a TW/Nin that carries around Excalibur.  And stealthy too.  The ninja heal is cool.  SR's ddr is unmatched.  The Ninja end power is fine too but I generally build to not need it.  Ninja has more powers you can skip for pool powers and such though.  SR you only skip  elude generally.  It is fine to have nowadays if you do star level content.  

I will eventually make a /SR hero. Just gotta think of something.

[TheMoncrief]

I feel like SR is much better on a Brute or Tanker, where the health pool is big enough that the scaling resists kick in while you still have enough health to take a hit or two. On a Stalker, Sentinel, or Scrapper, with their lower health pools, better to have healing and endurance clicks than scaling resists that will move you from "about to die," to "still about to die."