Are Defenders Worth It?

[PhotriusPyrelus]

Back on live I played a Rad/Rad Defender and I loved it.  It was one of the best characters I ever played in any MMO.  I had decent DPS (less than a blaster, but still contributing), I didn't feel overly squishy in the rare case that enemies managed to hit me through my Radiation Infection.  I wasn't even using Choking Cloud back then because I thought it was dumb.  Admittedly, though, I didn't play very much at level-cap.

Since I started playing again, I feel so much weaker.  My DPS is abysmal, if enemies hit me, I fold like a tower of cards.  I basically have no choice *but* to use Choking Cloud.  And that's just solo.  In teams I feel 100% useless.  My damage is non-existent, my debuffs don't seem to matter at all, and if I try to get in to use Choking Cloud, AOE puts me face down in the dirt.

And last night some very experienced level 50 let me tag along with him.  He didn't need me there at all.  He was 100% fine soloing everything.  I appreciate his charity in letting me soak up XP, but damn did it make me feel useless and start wondering what's the point of playing a Defender?  ...and then a Blaster joined and started pulling (not sure what power set, he did some move where he charged in and did beaucoup damage) and he'd wipe out the minions instantly, and it looked like whatever wasn't killed outright was mezzed for several seconds.  I don't think I saw him ever fall below 75% HP.

So yeah.  What's the point of playing the buffing/debuffing class when no one needs your buffs or debuffs...

[MoonSheep]

with a rad you’re not going to have the same tangible impact like you do with a set like kin, cold, thermal, nature etc where you can visually see the effects and see the numbers change

 

debuffs are still worthwhile, and good for applying damage procs into your powers. personal buffs don’t change the damage of a proc, but a 30% debuff increases its damage by 30%!

 

i have a rad/ice i play on test and really enjoy it. i’d say stick with it and enjoy the more relaxed pace on teams 

[UltraAlt]

26 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

So yeah.  What's the point of playing the buffing/debuffing class when no one needs your buffs or debuffs...

 

The advantage of having a defender increases with the number of characters that are on a team.

Also, playing with end-gamers is a sure way to make you feel like any character is underpowered.

 

Find teams more around your level or invite lower level character to join you.

If you are planning on running choking cloud a lot (and it isn't slotted up) I would suggest getting a tanker that knows how to taunt on the team.

 

Each archetype and power sets require different playstyles to really shine.

 

If it isn't working for you at this point, just make another character and then check back in on that one from time to time.

Hopefully, we are all playing to have fun. Find the character that is fun for you to play. There are so many options, that there has to be more than one that you will find fun to play.

[Linea]

1 hour ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

my debuffs don't seem to matter at all

Appearance is the issue here.  Trust me, those debuffs matter.  Even if you join me running Hornet and manage to pull a duo in an 801, where I might look like a god and you a squishy grape. Even then, your debuffs 110% matter.  I can't count the number of times a crucial buffer or debuffer "felt" like they weren't contributing, quit, and then the whole team falls apart, or at the very least slows down to half-speed.  Defenders absolutely matter.  There are some defenders (and corruptors) that I personally know, that when they join the team, I automatically add another Star to the (Hard Mode) difficulty level.  I rarely do that for other ATs. A top of the line tank maybe, and even then I would normally want TWO top of the line tanks before I added that Star that the defender automatically adds by themselves.

 

Because of the crazy multipliers and rules, a Rad Emm just showing up to Hard Mode can add something between 180 and 800 raw dps equivalent to the team when taking out the big AVs and GMs.  A pair of them do this even better and more reliably.  Is it "needed"?  Sometimes yeah.   Is it helpful, ALWAYS!  But it's not big and flashy, no.

 

In standard teams, build your own armor up some, then build more toward offense and AoE.  The average PI Council Farm is a Paper Tiger carrying a Glass Blunderbuss.

 

Attached below is an ancient fully armored SLEFC build.  It's not cheap, but you can also apply roughly the same IOs to many builds.

Rad Rad Scorpion Defender - Alpha 1 - [i25].mxd

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

What's the point of playing the buffing/debuffing class when no one needs your buffs or debuffs...

The draw of a Defender over a Corruptor is the higher base buff/debuff values.
(Vigilance grants a noticeable damage buff when soloing but on teams it's next to worthless...)

There are a few solid buff/debuff powersets that don't overly benefit from Power Boost/Power Build Up; and that therefore really shine with those higher Defender base values. Cold Domination is a good example of this: Defender-level Cold Bubbles plus Arctic Fog and Maneuvers can hit North of 40% defense; so throw in Barrier and it's quite possible to permanently softcap your entire team by yourself... and the numbers for Sleet, Heat Loss and Benumb are through the roof.
And of course Defenders also benefit from a higher scaling on Leadership powers, and many blast powerset secondary effects (even if Sonic Blast isn't quite as OP these days!)

A good Defender can be quite literally a force multiplier on teams - you're not a Tank or a Blaster, but you make the team more powerful, faster, and safer. That Fire Blaster that can melt a pack of minions by themselves should be able to melt a pack of bosses with you by their side.
 

Edited April 24 by Maelwys

[Linea]

Here is a less expensive variant of the above build.

Rad Rad Scorpion Defender - Alpha 0 - [i25].mbd

[MonteCarla]

I run PUG Task Forces with levelling characters, usually do the weekly task force and whatever else takes my fancy.

I set the difficulty level based on how many support characters there are. I count the Defenders, Corrupters, Controller and Masterminds and look at their support powersets and can tell how hard it's going to be from that. 4 Supporters? We can probably run at +3 easy!

 

Radiation Emission's an odd set. It doesn't have a big tangible benefit like others do. (Force Fields = yay! No more damage, Kinetics = yay! Free end for everyone!)

But, it takes the edge off everything. Your teammates get some free end and recharge, which can make a Synapse or Yin much more bearable. You do provide layered safety via a -To Hit toggle, unreliable hold, -damage toggle and a weak but reliable heal. So its hard to feel your contribution.

Solo, your safety's not guaranteed.

 

But, every Defender (and other supporter) on a team is worth it. And if you ever get on an all-Defender team, you'll really feel it!

[Zect]

The answer to your question is IO's and incarnates. Once you properly leverage all the power creep that has happened between 2012 and now, you'll be enjoying builds that easily dominate anything on live.

 

But in general, support is wasted in piss easy content like ITFs, PI radios, AE farms, MSR, whatever this week's strike target is, and so on. If you play content where support isn't needed, then obviously you're going to feel useless.

[Psylenz0511]

3 hours ago, MonteCarla said:

I run PUG Task Forces with levelling characters, usually do the weekly task force and whatever else takes my fancy.

I set the difficulty level based on how many support characters there are. I count the Defenders, Corrupters, Controller and Masterminds and look at their support powersets and can tell how hard it's going to be from that. 4 Supporters? We can probably run at +3 easy!

 

Radiation Emission's an odd set. It doesn't have a big tangible benefit like others do. (Force Fields = yay! No more damage, Kinetics = yay! Free end for everyone!)

But, it takes the edge off everything. Your teammates get some free end and recharge, which can make a Synapse or Yin much more bearable. You do provide layered safety via a -To Hit toggle, unreliable hold, -damage toggle and a weak but reliable heal. So its hard to feel your contribution.

Solo, your safety's not guaranteed.

 

But, every Defender (and other supporter) on a team is worth it. And if you ever get on an all-Defender team, you'll really feel it!

Hello did someone mention the Everlasting defenders :-O 

[Psylenz0511]

2 hours ago, Zect said:

The answer to your question is IO's and incarnates. Once you properly leverage all the power creep that has happened between 2012 and now, you'll be enjoying builds that easily dominate anything on live.

 

But in general, support is wasted in piss easy content like ITFs, PI radios, AE farms, MSR, whatever this week's strike target is, and so on. If you play content where support isn't needed, then obviously you're going to feel useless.

ITF can be hard with the varying abilities of team members, but I agree with your post,

[Psylenz0511]

13 hours ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Back on live I played a Rad/Rad Defender and I loved it.  It was one of the best characters I ever played in any MMO.  I had decent DPS (less than a blaster, but still contributing), I didn't feel overly squishy in the rare case that enemies managed to hit me through my Radiation Infection.  I wasn't even using Choking Cloud back then because I thought it was dumb.  Admittedly, though, I didn't play very much at level-cap.

Since I started playing again, I feel so much weaker.  My DPS is abysmal, if enemies hit me, I fold like a tower of cards.  I basically have no choice *but* to use Choking Cloud.  And that's just solo.  In teams I feel 100% useless.  My damage is non-existent, my debuffs don't seem to matter at all, and if I try to get in to use Choking Cloud, AOE puts me face down in the dirt.

And last night some very experienced level 50 let me tag along with him.  He didn't need me there at all.  He was 100% fine soloing everything.  I appreciate his charity in letting me soak up XP, but damn did it make me feel useless and start wondering what's the point of playing a Defender?  ...and then a Blaster joined and started pulling (not sure what power set, he did some move where he charged in and did beaucoup damage) and he'd wipe out the minions instantly, and it looked like whatever wasn't killed outright was mezzed for several seconds.  I don't think I saw him ever fall below 75% HP.

So yeah.  What's the point of playing the buffing/debuffing class when no one needs your buffs or debuffs...

As an experience player in the long long ago. I can offer a few tips:

   1. Do not wade into groups running choking cloud. It's best applied using TP, not combat TP, because you get a few moments of invulnerability to lay down the smack, like EMP Pulse or Atomic Blast or both, even better.

 

   2. Choking cloud needs slotting: endurance is obvious but the +chance hold proc from [my mind went blank] EDIT: **Lockdown Chance for +2 Mag Hold proc - NOT a set bonus**  is also a requirement. frankenslot for sure because most set bonuses are wasted on choking cloud.

 

   3. DO apply the toggle debuffs in the order of enervating field FIRST and then radiation infection. The animation time on radiation infection leaves you in a precarious position. You get reduced foe dmg in an aoe on your target anchor (which is not enhanceable, sorry) right away, as well as reduced resistance of your foes. The groups tend to melt before giving radiation infection a second thought. Also, target lieutenants for anchors as they are crunchier and oftern the team focuses right away on bosses.

 

   4. BE AFRAID OF OVERZEALOUS TAUNTERS! Be very afraid. *Shivers* Taunters have the notice they can taunt every last Freak on the Dreck map. They could in Issue 1, but many still THINK they can. Your toggles: choking cloud, rad infection, enervating field can 'rip' targets off the taunter with ease because of the taunt's aggro cap! Especially if the taunter is running around the room/map inviting new groups into the 'murder zone'. The only thing you care about getting murdered is YOU.\

 

That should help some.  

Edited April 25 by Psylenz0511

[BrandX]

I honestly haven't felt like my Corruptors, when solo, are doing that much more damage than my Defenders.  So, yes, Scourge may kick in and be of use on bosses, and AV types of deals when solo, but if a Corr can get down to Scourge kicking in, then a Defender can get them down in health too.

Defender comes with some better Defense numbers too.  I've enjoyed my Storm/Storm Defender more than my Storm/Storm Corruptor.

 

No, on Kinetics, I thought the Corruptor won out.

Edited April 25 by BrandX

[biostem]

Defenders are a force multiplier.  The problem, I think, is that you're playing a character whose primary that rely fairly heavily on "anchor debuffs" and a secondary whose secondary effects aren't all that noticeable.  In a protracted battle against a few tough targets, you'll really shine.  For the remainder of content that teams typically bulldoze through, not so much.  As for "folding like a tower of cards", all I can say is to take a defensive armor toggle from an APP/PPP and, when able, slot IO sets that grant additional defense.  Since defenders also get the best bang for their buck from the leadership pool, I'd take some powers from there as well.  Again, time and resources permitting, getting your hands on 5x luck of the gambler global recharge IOs will also help you out a bunch!

[PhotriusPyrelus]

3 hours ago, Psylenz0511 said:

As an experience player in the long long ago. I can offer a few tips:

   1. Do not wade into groups running choking cloud. It's best applied using TP, not combat TP, because you get a few moments of invulnerability to lay down the smack, like EMP Pulse or Atomic Blast or both, even better.

 

   2. Choking cloud needs slotting: endurance is obvious but the +chance hold proc from [my mind went blank] set  is also a requirement. frankenslot for sure because most set bonuses are wasted on choking cloud.

 

   3. DO apply the toggle debuffs in the order of enervating field FIRST and then radiation infection. The animation time on radiation infection leaves you in a precarious position. You get reduced foe dmg in an aoe on your target anchor (which is not enhanceable, sorry) right away, as well as reduced resistance of your foes. The groups tend to melt before giving radiation infection a second thought. Also, target lieutenants for anchors as they are crunchier and oftern the team focuses right away on bosses.

 

   4. BE AFRAID OF OVERZEALOUS TAUNTERS! Be very afraid. *Shivers* Taunters have the notice they can taunt every last Freak on the Dreck map. They could in Issue 1, but many still THINK they can. Your toggles: choking cloud, rad infection, enervating field can 'rip' targets off the taunter with ease because of the taunt's aggro cap! Especially if the taunter is running around the room/map inviting new groups into the 'murder zone'. The only thing you care about getting murdered is YOU.\

 

That should help some.  

1. I don't really understand.  I know TP means Teleport, but I'm not sure what you're talking about; I've never used the teleport powers (unless you count other people teleporting me)

2.  I have 1 End.Redux, 1 Rech.Redux and 4 Hold Duration at the moment.  It pretty much permenantly locks down minions, and about 90% on Lt.s.  Also, I haven't really messed with sets yet; I'm only 43, I think, and am still using regular IOs.  I think the ones in Choking Cloud (whose initials are hilariously CC, that had to be intentional), are 25.

3. What do you mean "The animation time on Radiation infection leaves [me] in a precarious position"?  I've been thinking about anchoring on Lt.s, but it seems more important that I be certain at least one of the bosses is covered in the aura, and since the debuffs don't deactivate upon death any more, but rather when the body disappears, this seemed like a better strategy to me.  I'm certainly not saying I know better, just my line of thinking so far.

4.  I have to admit, I have *ZERO* idea how threat works in this game.  I don't really understand how taunt works or how debuffs can pull threat.  @_@

[Psylenz0511]

10 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

1. I don't really understand.  I know TP means Teleport, but I'm not sure what you're talking about; I've never used the teleport powers (unless you count other people teleporting me)  Start just out of aggro range where your presence alone won't cause the group to attack you.  Click your teleport power, place the target in the middle of the spawn. You will teleport into their midst and be invulnerable for a few moments while choking cloud takes affect. With this technique they can do their 'alpha' first attack on you in vain as choking cloud ticks pulses and holds more of the group. This will put you directly in the middle of the spawn - just where you want to be with choking cloud.

2.  I have 1 End.Redux, 1 Rech.Redux and 4 Hold Duration at the moment.  It pretty much permenantly locks down minions, and about 90% on Lt.s.  Also, I haven't really messed with sets yet; I'm only 43, I think, and am still using regular IOs.  I think the ones in Choking Cloud (whose initials are hilariously CC, that had to be intentional), are 25. You need at least 2 level 30+ generic IOs slotted in Choking Cloud, then you need the Lockdown proc Chance for +2 Mag hold, and then fill your extra 3 potential slots with hold duration or even some accuracy enhancement. Because it is a proc, you can start using the Lockdown proc at level 27! Because it's an IO, the proc will be good until you are level 50++++ Because you want choking cloud in every group at every level possible, you want a level 30 or an attuned IO proc so that you may exemp down and have the proc available for content level 27-50++++ This proc is that important and it is the ONLY IO from the Lockdown (or any other IO hold set) that is required. This IO proc when you have it slotted is a game changer, trust me. You hit level 27 you get 2 enhancement slots, one slot is to be dedicated to choking cloud for this proc.

3. What do you mean "The animation time on Radiation infection leaves [me] in a precarious position"?  I've been thinking about anchoring on Lt.s, but it seems more important that I be certain at least one of the bosses is covered in the aura, and since the debuffs don't deactivate upon death any more, but rather when the body disappears, this seemed like a better strategy to me.  I'm certainly not saying I know better, just my line of thinking so far. The animation time, the cast time of this action, grabs the attention of your targets within fraction of a second when you start casting. Radiation Infection takes 1.5 seconds to cast [I think it used to be longer] and actually affect your targets with to-hit debuff. Radiation Infection is NOT the best opening move. I generally will pre-emptively DETOGGLE on the anchor's death to give me the option to re-toggle where I need to next..

4.  I have to admit, I have *ZERO* idea how threat works in this game.  I don't really understand how taunt works or how debuffs can pull threat.  @_@  Taunts in general come in AoE package or single target for scrappers, brutes, and other melee. The most number of foes you can target at one AOE application is 16, if you can hit 16 of 16 chances are someone is running Tactics or radiation infection, where you chance to hit the targets is increased. Some folks with taunt can easily cycle through 16 targets and retarget another set of foes. What this means is the taunter has aggroed over 16 targets, but he can only hold the aggro of 16 at a time. A radiation emission character can easily strip off 16 of the targets the taunter has initailly aggroed via choking cloud, radiation infection, enervating field, lingering radiation, etc which are all AoE and will break the aggro of any targer outside the last 16 successfully taunted. BIg raids, like the RIkti Mothership Raid, zone events, or situations where the taunter has more than 16 targets are DEATH TRAPS for radiation emission users unless they are knowledgeable of the risks.

I went on too long, but I hope I enlightened you to better tactics. Strategy is still up to you 😉

[Psylenz0511]

4 hours ago, BrandX said:

I honestly haven't felt like a my Corruptors, when solo, are doing that much more damage than my Defenders.  So, yes, Scourge may kick in and me of use on bosses, solo, for AV type of deals, if a Corr can get down to Scourge kicking in, then a Defender can get them down in health to.

Defender comes with some better Defense numbers too.  I've enjoyed my Storm/Storm Defender more than my Storm/Storm Corruptor.

 

No, on Kinetics, I thought the Corruptor won out.

Better as defenders:

Cold

Storm

Forcefields

Sonic (don't laugh, that hula hoop of doom is DEADLY defender sized on a teammate)

Traps

Trick Arrow

Empathy

Thermal (I am a bit ambivalent on this one)

Poison if you are a team player

Kinetics if you are a team player

Electric Affinity

Nature Affinity

Radiation Emission

 

In the right hands of a Corruptor - better off:

Dark

Kinetics

Poison

Trick Arrow if you tend to solo more

 

What people forget about Kinetics is that all siphon powers: transfusion, transference, siphon power, siphon speed, and fulcrum shift are double edged weapons. Transfusion has -regen that is NOT enhanceable but performs better on a defender, Siphon power has +dmg for teammates but also -dmg on targets (this subtlety of -dmg is lost on the masses) siphon speed has a GLORIOUS irresistible secondary effect of -speed. (It can miss but AVs and hard targets in general do not resist). If you're a sapper, transference makes sapping easier for defenders. For all the lovely stack +dmg [hello damage cap 🙂 ] it also REDUCES DMG on all affected targets. On typical regular in-game content less than level 50, the nuance of a defender debuff compared to a corruptor debuff may be trivial, but in hard content this additional -dmg can be a lifesaver.

 

[Uun]

10 hours ago, Psylenz0511 said:

2. Choking cloud needs slotting: endurance is obvious but the +chance hold proc from [my mind went blank] EDIT: **Lockdown Chance for +2 Mag Hold proc - NOT a set bonus**  is also a requirement. frankenslot for sure because most set bonuses are wasted on choking cloud.

I run Entangling Aura (Choking Cloud clone) on my Nature/Seismic defender and Fire/Nature controller. I tried the Lockdown proc and found it didn't fire that often and ended up dropping it. My slotting is 3x end/hold IOs, which will generally hold all minions and lieutenants after 2-3 pulses. On the defender I took Char to stack magnitude to hold bosses. 

[MizuUeumatsu]

I played nothing but defenders on live and I don't know if their gameplay changed on HC but I've always considered my rad/sonic a duck treading water. Calm on the surface, kicking butt underneath the water. I doubt that's changed much but what did change is my taste for gameplay styles. 

 

If defender isn't your cup of tea, it's better to stop now but keep the character until you want to pick it up again, because you will eventually get that itch. Try some other ATs and find one you like. Don't quit, just explore. You may come to find you like your defenders' impact after all.

 

Have fun out there...

[BrandX]

7 hours ago, Psylenz0511 said:

Better as defenders:

Cold

Storm

Forcefields

Sonic (don't laugh, that hula hoop of doom is DEADLY defender sized on a teammate)

Traps

Trick Arrow

Empathy

Thermal (I am a bit ambivalent on this one)

Poison if you are a team player

Kinetics if you are a team player

Electric Affinity

Nature Affinity

Radiation Emission

 

In the right hands of a Corruptor - better off:

Dark

Kinetics

Poison

Trick Arrow if you tend to solo more

 

What people forget about Kinetics is that all siphon powers: transfusion, transference, siphon power, siphon speed, and fulcrum shift are double edged weapons. Transfusion has -regen that is NOT enhanceable but performs better on a defender, Siphon power has +dmg for teammates but also -dmg on targets (this subtlety of -dmg is lost on the masses) siphon speed has a GLORIOUS irresistible secondary effect of -speed. (It can miss but AVs and hard targets in general do not resist). If you're a sapper, transference makes sapping easier for defenders. For all the lovely stack +dmg [hello damage cap 🙂 ] it also REDUCES DMG on all affected targets. On typical regular in-game content less than level 50, the nuance of a defender debuff compared to a corruptor debuff may be trivial, but in hard content this additional -dmg can be a lifesaver.

 

 

I think the issue with -DMG, from what I understand, is it gets resisted by the enemies Resist.  So, -DMG seems nice, until the enemy that does energy damage also has 75% energy resist, so that -DMG gets weakened a lot.

[Doomguide2005]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

I run Entangling Aura (Choking Cloud clone) on my Nature/Seismic defender and Fire/Nature controller. I tried the Lockdown proc and found it didn't fire that often and ended up dropping it. My slotting is 3x end/hold IOs, which will generally hold all minions and lieutenants after 2-3 pulses. On the defender I took Char to stack magnitude to hold bosses. 

I do similarly and I use the Lockdown proc although it is a mixed bag of results.  Thing is as long as you are paying the end it's (CC) essentially a 'free' Hold attack against everything around you as you port in.  Pop in, drop Char or other Hold on the boss, and go to town.  I've also found Air Superiority to be very good at keeping a boss ineffective as it's a very reliable knock effect and can keep the boss bouncing and it can take a proc Hold as well (Blistering Cold set)

[PhotriusPyrelus]

5 hours ago, Uun said:

On the defender I took Char to stack magnitude to hold bosses. 

What is that?  I don't know all the jargon yet, sorry.  >.<

[Duckbutler]

I think everyone's already covered it, but I'm going to say it again just to add one more voice to the chorus. Your buffs are doing something.

 

You often cannot directly see the impact of your buffs. If you're only ever playing the buffer you don't see what happens to the team when you aren't there. You might see it if you have short term buffs and you can see the team slow down or start dying when you let those buffs lapse, but that takes time and some awareness to observe. 

[Uun]

2 hours ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

What is that?  I don't know all the jargon yet, sorry.  >.<

You need a magnitude 2 hold to affect a minion, a mag 3 hold to affect a lieutenant and a mag 4 hold to affect a boss. Every 2 seconds, Choking Cloud/Entangling Aura provides a 50% chance of a mag 2 hold and an 80% chance of a mag 1 hold. After 2-3 pulses, these should stack to mag 3 on everything in the AoE. Char is a mag 3 ST hold available in the Fire Mastery Epic (there are other ST holds available in Elec, Leviathan, Mace, Mu, Psi and Soul Mastery). When Char is used on a boss within Choking Cloud's AoE, the magnitude will stack to mag 6 and the boss will be held.

[Gobbledigook]

I run a Time/Fire Defender with a good build. My defense is in the high 50's. I have huge +recharge in the build and self buffs, so my nukes are up very often (36sec Nuke). I  also have heals. I can debuff enemy resists/defense and make them weaker. Fire secondary is as good as it gets for damage with a few procs added.

 

The Defender does not feel weak at all. I tried the Corruptor version but it had reduced survival from buffs and weaker debuffs compared to the Defender and i had to alter the build slightly weakening it. Scourge is nice, but so are extra procs and stronger buffs/debuffs.

 

You might just need to find a combo you like also.

 

 

[Sanguinesun]

On 4/25/2024 at 4:47 AM, Linea said:

 

 

In standard teams, build your own armor up some, then build more toward offense and AoE.  The average PI Council Farm is a Paper Tiger carrying a Glass Blunderbuss.

 

 

 

Since the, quite frankly, ridiculous Council changes, the PI mish ones are not paper tigers anymore, imo.  Archons are like mini AV's now that hit hard, strong self heal, and some use the dark tank rez taking significant chunks from players. Since they can spawn in groups of more than one, they can be a problem for various teams in some cases.  They're over tuned and I cant help but feel the dev who did so really has a love for and dog(wolf) whistling(pun intented) the council/5ht column 😛.

 

Keep in mind your build of course when fully done wouldn't be a concern on PI Council mishes because that build is specific for high end content play.  Most folks running those arent so specific/geared obviously and with a flux of team composition/dynamics that tend to not be found with the smaller numbers of folks running the starred content, hehe.

 

----

 

As for circling back to the question by the op regarding defenders, as you and others in the thread have pointed out, they are worth it/

 

 

Edited April 28 by Sanguinesun