Come one, come all, please join us in beta testing Issue 28, Page 1.

[Techwright]

48 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

Let me guess: You like Tech, right?  😉

 

🤯  You...are a mind reader!

 

 

Actually, yes, I like tech, but I'm serious about the full set.  I'm all for science, natural, and mutation as well and have characters with all of them.  It is a personal preference, I realize, but I'd be very much for a rotation of releases focused on each, one at a time. 

[ZamuelNow]

What times are people generally testing the Labyrinth?  Wondering when to log on.

[Ukase]

On 7/7/2024 at 9:30 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

But if the players don't tell the devs what they want . . .

I think many of us have gotten what we wanted in the past several pages. And we also got some things we didn't want. 

I recall when the instant base teleport that "Leaked" was disabled/taken away - and replaced with the current base teleport and lrtp options. At the time, I was annoyed, maybe even a little bit pissed. But now, I'm super happy with it. Like most changes, it just takes getting used to. 

It's super easy for someone like me to point out what I don't like and what I do like. 

To actually imagine what I'd like and articulate it, I really don't know I'm able to do that with any clarity. 

I know I want less reliance on external websites that aren't run by HC. I completely get that someone has to volunteer to do that kind of thing. I'm just worried how things might play out if HC wiki never updates beyond the current point. 

I know I want the Rogue Isles to be completely revamped to look like Praetoria. (the audio files may be kept, tho) No, I'm not serious with this one. 

But seriously: 
I know I want all contacts to stop offering hunt missions. Now that we have the labyrinth, there should never be a need to hunt anything in the open zones unless you just want to. 
I know I want all contacts to have a menu of their missions or story arcs in the same fashion that Lord Schweinzer lists the mayhem missions. And a note about how many reward merits the arc offers would be nice, too. (so I don't have to tab out and look it up on the wiki.) 

I want inf sinks. 
Like the ability to buy with inf extra storage for my base. 
The ability to buy with inf extra storage for my character. Like 1000 pieces instead of 182. Yeah, I know it's a burden on the server, but you asked. 

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing our current iTrials adjusted in some form or fashion to make things interesting. Not harder, but more interesting. As for what more interesting looks like, it could be Dr. Aeon breaking through the cut-scene and cracking a joke, to having Mother Mayhem come out and fussing about having to take care of things herself. 
Or in Underground, having Desdemona not requiring an escort - by having her tell us where to meet her later while she works on some rituals. 
 

 

As for powersets, I'm just not creative enough to come up with anything to test. I'd rather see the stuff we have now adjusted to be more player friendly/intuitive. 

Like Ranged/Targeted AoEs.  I grasp that some powers a player might not want to drop on an npc target. So, my desire doesn't align with what those players would appreciate. 
When I tried Marine Affinity, ( I left feedback as such) there was a self-teleport, knock down, do damage power that I loved because I don't have to place a reticle. I end up executing the power on the npc I have targeted - without placing a reticle or using a macro to executed at my cursor or at my target. To me, they should all work like that. Or, perhaps something in options to let them work like that. 








 

[Techwright]

2 hours ago, ZamuelNow said:

What times are people generally testing the Labyrinth?  Wondering when to log on.

Yes, I'd like to know that as well.  I am currently available a lot more than others, I think.

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

I know I want less reliance on external websites that aren't run by HC. I completely get that someone has to volunteer to do that kind of thing. I'm just worried how things might play out if HC wiki never updates beyond the current point. 

I know there's some change in the works and for some reason I think the HC Wiki was being moved to new hardware instead of being running out of a garage.   Hence why the wiki has been locked down.   Other than that speculation, I know nothing.

Edited July 9 by lemming

[Oklahoman]

On 7/7/2024 at 9:30 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

But if the players don't tell the devs what they want . . . 

 

First off - about the new content, that's great. I know the devs involved have poured themselves into this content for a long while and probably won't get as much thanks from the community as they should. The new labyrinth, story arc, and powerset are things I likely won't be using, but who knows? That's why I'm not making a beeline to the test server to try them out, but it doesn't mean I won't play them later or simply appreciate the fact they are there for others to enjoy.

 

But to this question in particular, we have an entire forum full of suggestions that people want. What I would love to see in updates is a direct link from the patch notes to ideas in that forum, so the people who propose the idea get some credit (or blame, I guess) and so that the community can see that their input really does factor into development. And I would like for this sort of thing to be a big chunk of the updates at this point. That's what I want, others probably feel differently and will express that with a downvote here. That's Okie-Dokie.

 

Just by way of example, it's pretty common to see posts about Empathy in the Suggestions forum. I count 16 with Empathy in the title, not counting "Emp" or other ways of saying that, or posts like that which end up in General Discussion or elsewhere throughout the forums. I also remember that Empathy was asked about a lot back on live. I'm not saying that's THE MOST asked about subject, but I see it a lot and am just using it here as an example. If something ended up on Beta that tried something new with Empathy, I would definitely get on to test it.

 

I have a long list of stuff I want, some of which is in the Suggestions forum. I know when I post there I sort of anticipate a slew of negative responses and "the devs can't do that" plus I know the percentage chance of it ending up in an update at all are pretty slim, so I don't say what I want a lot of times. Maybe others feel that way, too.

 

But at the end of the day, if a developer isn't interested in Empathy (just as an example) there's probably not going to be any changes there because they are volunteers, not paid staff. I get that. I also know that what's on the beta server now is not the full extent of what will ultimately be in the new release, so we may still see some stuff from the Suggestions forum added. But I'm also not holding my breath.

[Lazarillo]

On 7/7/2024 at 2:33 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

You are, of course, welcome to test or not test anything and to like or dislike whatever.  But out of curiosity, what sort of things would interest you enough to try them on a Beta.

Fair questions.  Mostly I take an interest in testing things I'd have an interest in playing live.  Powerset revamps or even sets that keep the complicated power interactions to a minimum are up there, or new costume pieces more generic-style power customizations (than just a goopy teleport, I don't see myself using) as are new story arcs (which, incidentally, now that that's been added, I'd planned to take a look at...but I'm living in the aftermath of Hurricane Beryl at the moment and can't test even things I would want to test...oh, irony).

Edited July 9 by Lazarillo

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

What I would love to see in updates is a direct link from the patch notes to ideas in that forum, so the people who propose the idea get some credit (or blame, I guess) and so that the community can see that their input really does factor into development.

This is the kind of thinking that boggles my mind. It's a good idea - but I just don't think I'd ever think of it in a lifetime. This is part of the reason I come to the forums - aside from imagining Okie talking with a southern drawl - to read ideas that I wouldn't come up with. 
 

[Ukase]

7 hours ago, ZamuelNow said:

What times are people generally testing the Labyrinth?  Wondering when to log on.

My times vary. I've been on the early-mid mornings and candidly - there's really not much fun in running around by yourself with your initial token level shift from Alpha. The shifts from defeating a fog only last 5 minutes, and it anecdotally takes me 2x as long to find another one. The minotaur - lately - has had an easier time finding me with the Malevolent Fog having 

|----| much health left. With 11 level shifts, he only hits for about 600 with his initial attack. But with just the alpha shift, it's pretty much instant defeat. His accuracy isn't that great, thankfully. But it's not the type of GM/AV you can ignore while focusing on something else. By design, no doubt. 

I've been on in the evenings, fairly consistently since the day after it hit. Just not for very long - maybe 30 minutes in the labyrinth, and 45 minutes with the marina secondary power set. 
I think the best time is to be on for the Labyrinth (on Excelsior, anyway) is in the evenings between 7pm and midnight central time. I don't know who's doing it - I've only teamed up once while in there - and it was pointless, as we were without focus, nor did we have a clue of what to do. We began fighting the minotaur. I was the only one with the special insp, as far as I know, but the Minotaur was 54+6, and the rest of us were 50+1. Maybe we started at +3 for a moment, but that didn't last long. 

So, if I were king for a day, I'd have two teams running in tandem, or a league, if that works in there,  hunting the MFogs, and other EBs for level shifts. And when we got to 10, I'd have both teams hunting the minotaur (by remaining stationary) and then if successful in defeating it, break off and go looking for various secret spots and potential history/lore clues. 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

1 hour ago, Lazarillo said:

but I'm living in the aftermath of Hurricane Beryl at the moment

 

Oh no!  I hope that you and yours are safe and can recover completely and quickly.

[lemming]

5 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

What I would love to see in updates is a direct link from the patch notes to ideas in that forum, so the people who propose the idea get some credit (or blame, I guess) and so that the community can see that their input really does factor into development.

I'm not entirely on board with this because just because someone says "Hey, what about this?"  doesn't mean that it hasn't already been suggested by someone else.  heck, it may have been in slow development already. 

[Sanguinesun]

7 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

 

First off - about the new content, that's great. I know the devs involved have poured themselves into this content for a long while and probably won't get as much thanks from the community as they should. The new labyrinth, story arc, and powerset are things I likely won't be using, but who knows? That's why I'm not making a beeline to the test server to try them out, but it doesn't mean I won't play them later or simply appreciate the fact they are there for others to enjoy.

 

But to this question in particular, we have an entire forum full of suggestions that people want. What I would love to see in updates is a direct link from the patch notes to ideas in that forum, so the people who propose the idea get some credit (or blame, I guess) and so that the community can see that their input really does factor into development. And I would like for this sort of thing to be a big chunk of the updates at this point. That's what I want, others probably feel differently and will express that with a downvote here. That's Okie-Dokie.

 

Just by way of example, it's pretty common to see posts about Empathy in the Suggestions forum. I count 16 with Empathy in the title, not counting "Emp" or other ways of saying that, or posts like that which end up in General Discussion or elsewhere throughout the forums. I also remember that Empathy was asked about a lot back on live. I'm not saying that's THE MOST asked about subject, but I see it a lot and am just using it here as an example. If something ended up on Beta that tried something new with Empathy, I would definitely get on to test it.

 

I have a long list of stuff I want, some of which is in the Suggestions forum. I know when I post there I sort of anticipate a slew of negative responses and "the devs can't do that" plus I know the percentage chance of it ending up in an update at all are pretty slim, so I don't say what I want a lot of times. Maybe others feel that way, too.

 

But at the end of the day, if a developer isn't interested in Empathy (just as an example) there's probably not going to be any changes there because they are volunteers, not paid staff. I get that. I also know that what's on the beta server now is not the full extent of what will ultimately be in the new release, so we may still see some stuff from the Suggestions forum added. But I'm also not holding my breath.

 

As I said in my other post.  There are two, distinct, communities with HC: the ones who implement the decisions and the rest of the community.  Years of this now have shown how its not going to change, that transparency is intentionally superficial, and worse.   It should be changed but it wont change.

[Glacier Peak]

8 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

As I said in my other post.  There are two, distinct, communities with HC: the ones who implement the decisions and the rest of the community.  Years of this now have shown how its not going to change, that transparency is intentionally superficial, and worse.   It should be changed but it wont change.

There's not two distinct communities. You're wrong. Years of Homecoming development have shown they listen to player feedback. The transparency is obvious to anyone who has done any testing on the beta server in the past five years. Just because you don't get your way doesn't mean they don't listen. 

[MoonSheep]

51 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

There's not two distinct communities. You're wrong. Years of Homecoming development have shown they listen to player feedback. The transparency is obvious to anyone who has done any testing on the beta server in the past five years. Just because you don't get your way doesn't mean they don't listen. 

 

 

@Sanguinesun i agree that it can feel like there’s an “us” crowd and a separate one that gets involved in testing, however we can both opt in to be closed server beta testers if we wanted to sign up

 

i understand the premise of having a closed beta to work through alpha stuff and maintain an element of surprise. it does feel once things hit the beta server that things are mostly set in stone

 

my main nugget of feedback to the dev team is that a lot of the power changes feel quite bland, slow and hellbent around “balancing”. regen for example has been ignored for 5 years despite the playerbase excited to see it revamped for the modern era - instead we get another water blast set

[Number Six]

11 hours ago, lemming said:

I'm not entirely on board with this because just because someone says "Hey, what about this?"  doesn't mean that it hasn't already been suggested by someone else.  heck, it may have been in slow development already. 

 

This happens ridiculously often. Sometimes I see suggestions posts for something that is finished and waiting to go to beta and I have to double check to make sure it isn't a dev being cheeky on their player account (it never is).

[Luminara]

5 minutes ago, Number Six said:

This happens ridiculously often. Sometimes I see suggestions posts for something that is finished and waiting to go to beta and I have to double check to make sure it isn't a dev being cheeky on their player account (it never is).

 

@Number Six to developer:

 

[Ukase]

9 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

As I said in my other post.  There are two, distinct, communities with HC: the ones who implement the decisions and the rest of the community.  Years of this now have shown how its not going to change, that transparency is intentionally superficial, and worse.   It should be changed but it wont change.

So, I'm on the outside, looking in, in a fashion. While I "know" (or more precisely, know of ) players that are in closed beta and have an ear, if not a voice on how/what decisions are made, I have a very clear recollection of them proposing a change of disabling the earning of emp merits in AE. This was proposed, in conjunction of them removing the option to convert emp merits into reward merits (and I'd further convert those reward merits into converters, and essentially farm converters for my own use). 
I made no secret about it - I thought it was fantastic for the player base, because at the time, I don't think maybe 5% of the players both understood and had the desire to craft and/or convert recipes into the more popular IOs for the player base. And, since I was in that space, and could see where competition was coming from, I feel more than qualified to say that. I certainly can't state specific values with certainty, but I do think it's fair to say not many players where doing this kind of thing. There were plenty that were curious, but ultimately most found it more easy to just sell their converters. 

I probably wrote a page and a half why I thought it was a bad move. And "they" kind of met me in the middle. I can still earn emp merits in AE - but I can't convert those emps into reward merits and consequently, into converters anymore. Fortunately, I can now use those stashed T-merits and "complete" certain characters without suffering through the same incarnate content for the 350th time. (Sometimes I'll do the content - but I have to really enjoy the character. And some characters just aren't as good in game as they seem to be in mids.) 

So, while I see where you're coming from, I don't think it's as black and white as I'm interpreting what you're writing. 
I don't want to put words in your mouth, so to speak. 

I do agree - they're not likely to change how they do things. 

While I agree that this term transparency has been stepped on a fair bit, I don't think it's intentional. On the one hand - why mention proposed changes when you aren't sure they're going to be implemented? On the other hand - why code proposed changes if you're at all unclear how the player base as a whole will react to it? 

That's where things become clear - we're guests. Not customers that have paid cash for time to play. They code those proposed changes (which could have been one of my suggestions, who knows? Or maybe one of yours!) because they are changes they want to see in the game. What we think about it is important, but to a lesser degree. 

So, I do kind of get where you're coming from. But I think the comment misses the mark a little. And, of course, that's just my perception. I could very easily be wrong. 
 

[Ruin Mage]

If the community had its way or say more than it does now, HC would not be in a good state content or balance wise for new content.

Just the way it is.

[Oklahoman]

12 hours ago, lemming said:

I'm not entirely on board with this because just because someone says "Hey, what about this?"  doesn't mean that it hasn't already been suggested by someone else.  heck, it may have been in slow development already. 

 

I would hope a dev would be able to search a forum to see who perhaps first suggested an idea they just saw someone else post that caught their attention. Regardless, their best effort in the matter will do because this extremely helpful forum community will be quick to correct the Curator with links as to who actually posted the idea first, no doubt using very polite and understanding language

 

And since we have no visibility into what may be in "slow development" already, not much we can do there but make the suggestion when we think of it, even if it's a (known or unknown) duplicate post and even if it's (unknowingly) due to be released in the next push out to beta.

 

Recently, we asked yet again in the Suggestions forum for an instanced Hami raid and someone popped in to say they think a dev mentioned they were working on it. Absent that, as far as we know, the idea is not being considered so we have to bring it up again periodically to help move it back to the front burner. Even that response I linked is not "official" so I bet another post on the subject is in our future. When it finally does happen, I hope the dev can link from the patch notes to the original post I could find.

 

To be clear, I am not suggesting that 100% of what is posted in the Suggestions forum should be implemented. I've posted a few clunkers there myself. What I am saying is that is where I would love for devs to look for ideas, and then when they do implement them in the game to tie that from the patch notes back to the Suggestions forum post. Especially with those topics that seem to keep popping up over and over again - like Empathy, as I mentioned - to really take that as a strong "want" from the community. Making that tie-in with the patch notes lets the devs "capture the win" and show that the community asked and they answered.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, Number Six said:

 

This happens ridiculously often. Sometimes I see suggestions posts for something that is finished and waiting to go to beta and I have to double check to make sure it isn't a dev being cheeky on their player account (it never is).

 

But Six, why do you have to double check?  Did you think it was Jimmy?  Was it Jimmy?  It was Jimmy, wasn't it?  Why are you covering for Jimmy?

[Ruin Mage]

It's always Jimmy.

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Ruin Mage said:

If the community had its way or say more than it does now, HC would not be in a good state content or balance wise for new content.

Just the way it is.

Lmao its not in a good state now. Not like the community would make great changes but to me not like HC is either. Or rather the direction they’re going. And I most CERTAINLY know I’m not alone in that assessment by notable community figures

[Ruin Mage]

42 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Lmao its not in a good state now.

To each their own, but I should very much clarify my stance. I kept my reply brief because I thought I'd try to keep this thread at a distance after people did the usual whinging about the usual Anti-Beta bullshit.

I do not believe that HC's changes have been all good - at least looking at them from the outside. There's been some really sketchy changes that don't affect me, but certainly affect others. One change that I personally didn't like was the change to Master of Badges. I definitely think it might have done a little more damage than intended, but it's done and put in. There's people who don't like power changes. Sonic for example. There were some weird diehard fans of Beanbag.

However, I do not believe that the process and method that changes go through should change. A Closed Beta (with an open invite, last I checked, discord) that sees experimental phases and many reiterations is the first step. Then it goes to Open Beta where it usually is in its last stages. As in all thats left is number tweaking or some moderate adjustments. However, Open Beta can also see changes entirely re-done or scrapped. The AE changes went back and forth until we got what we got now. Dark Melee had a change for Soul Consumption pulled back. It doesn't happen all the time and it shouldn't.

I don't think the direction is bad outright, but there's certainly been some headscratching changes. Some that haven't seen the daylight of Open Beta (Yet?) but I know that the way things work are...how they are. I'm not going to howl and screech about how things need to change. This isn't my server to dictate such - something that I think some folk who do go on and on about certain things forget. I'm just here for the fun and sometimes I get something cool out of that fun. Like the Labyrinth or Hard Modes.

[Uncle Shags]

2 hours ago, Ruin Mage said:

I'm not going to howl and screech about how things need to change. This isn't my server to dictate such - something that I think some folk who do go on and on about certain things forget. 

Bingo.

 

This whole thing is a wonderful, amazing gift.  The sense of entitlement and lack of gratitude is discouraging.

 

I hope the devs recognize the naysayers are a tiny, trolly minority. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

11 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

Bingo.

 

This whole thing is a wonderful, amazing gift.  The sense of entitlement and lack of gratitude is discouraging.

 

I hope the devs recognize the naysayers are a tiny, trolly minority. 

Believe it or not I can be against a particular change or addition and still be grateful for everything that the developers have done to keep Homecoming alive and improving.

 

This isn't a rhetorical question I'd really like an answer: What's the point behind the developers starting feedback threads if the only feedback we're allowed to give is that we love every change and we agree with everything the devs say and do?