Patch Notes for July 23rd, 2024 - Issue 28, Page 1

[WindDemon21]

16 hours ago, Luminara said:

On these servers, the game belongs to Homecoming Servers LLC.  Not "the masses"

Right which is EXACTLY why I said they're going to do what they're going to do in the end. That was more of a general definition to "what's best" to the question I was answering.

 

16 hours ago, Luminara said:

Hanging with like-minded people and shouting into an echo chamber != vox populi.

Unless a whole server is like-minded people, which admittedly is possible but unlikely, but then you also would just be validating my argument, thank you.

 

16 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Really?  You see yourself waging war against the people who own the house where you're freeloading?  You've been snacking on those lead paint chips again, haven't you.

This doesn't need to be gone into again. Yes, it's free and we're all glad to have it running. That doesn't mean that we don't want the BEST for the game in situations like this in order to make it more fun and not annoying for no reason. You know the entire point of the game.

 

Now coming to this yes, obviously some people will like this, hence the polling suggestion to get a better consensus on the matter rather than the same 6 trolls that constantly peruse the beta forums where there is the vast majority who don't even know, nor go on, the beta forums (edit: you know who you are, obv Lum here as well. I've heard multiple times on server chats that people don't go on these forums specifically BECAUSE of Luminara and several of these others that follow them because they don't want to deal with their demeanor when anyone tries to oppose a different view than the devs or them) I'm allowed to discuss that here as you are as well, but that doesn't mean you, nor the devs would be "right" in thinking that's what most people would want.

 

Yes, the battle is trying to get the game to be the best it can be. Hence again these actual forums, to give feedback, which I've done. Stop derailing the threads because you don't like someones input, and stop forgetting to take your medications already sheesh.

Edited August 2 by WindDemon21

[lemming]

45 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Unless a whole server is like-minded people,

Eh, it's usually just a sliver of the population engaging in that type of chat.  (Unsure which server you're on for that, but if it's Everlasting or Excelsior, you'll notice a lot of people saying "Oh, I just turn off General right away")

 

There are several different methods of enacting any sort of suggestions.    Here on the forums, or via the beta cycles.  Closed & Open, with Discord as well.  They do seem to always listen, but they are not obligated to follow the suggestions.

[WindDemon21]

5 minutes ago, lemming said:

Eh, it's usually just a sliver of the population engaging in that type of chat.  (Unsure which server you're on for that, but if it's Everlasting or Excelsior, you'll notice a lot of people saying "Oh, I just turn off General right away")

 

There are several different methods of enacting any sort of suggestions.    Here on the forums, or via the beta cycles.  Closed & Open, with Discord as well.  They do seem to always listen, but they are not obligated to follow the suggestions.

Yeah, i usually avoid general a lot too but sometimes will delve depending on the topic, this will happen in help too when people ask about powers/builds, global channels, random teaming, etc, so lots of sources but yeah, it's just the server i'm on not other servers. And yeah it's Everlasting so these chats are often not on general unless they start on help and then move over to that.

[arcane]

Why aren’t you launching a crusade over Fire Blast? Inferno forces you into melee when Fire Breath works best at range.

 

Why aren’t you launching a crusade over Ice Control? Arctic Air forces you into melee when Cold Snap works best at range.

Why aren’t you launching a crusade over Poison? Venomous Gas forces you into melee when Neurotoxic Breath works best at range.

 

Why aren’t you launching a crusade over Energy Manipulation? Boost Range makes you even better at range, and then you get a bunch of melee attacks?

 

I could do this dozens more times but I won’t. The point is you’ve done absolutely nothing to explain why this Whitecap problem is so dire when the same “problem” manifests itself in 50 other places in the game.

[WindDemon21]

21 minutes ago, arcane said:

Why aren’t you launching a crusade over Fire Blast? Inferno forces you into melee when Fire Breath works best at range.

 

Why aren’t you launching a crusade over Ice Control? Arctic Air forces you into melee when Cold Snap works best at range.

Why aren’t you launching a crusade over Poison? Venomous Gas forces you into melee when Neurotoxic Breath works best at range.

 

Why aren’t you launching a crusade over Energy Manipulation? Boost Range makes you even better at range, and then you get a bunch of melee attacks?

 

I could do this dozens more times but I won’t. The point is you’ve done absolutely nothing to explain why this Whitecap problem is so dire when the same “problem” manifests itself in 50 other places in the game.

AA makes up for being in melee by doing just that much more making it worth being in melee the majority of the time., same with inferno which is one of the highest damaging nukes and is cast and exit waiting for a long recharge before doing so again. N-breath, oh I HAVE, that power should absolutely be at least a TAOE if not location field, that is one of the largest grievances (which isn't these dev's issue that was from the old devs and just hasn't gotten around to getting fixed yet). Energy manipulation as well has it's issues that need addressed, but again also much different. Whitecap puts you in melee constantly when nothing else in the set requires it or isn't actively dis-synergistic where it could just be a ranged ability without the teleport with no issues. Again it's not that "it's there, some will like it" more than it is actively kind of being like "wtf why is this tping me into melee harm's way for no reason and i have to keep constantly jumping out to use the cone debuff/heal and benefit from the range boost in the ultimate power"

 

So you COULD do it a dozen more times, and honestly there are quite a few that really should be fixed like neurotoxic breath (honestly that one is HUGE on my list). but this is literally a forum on a new patch that is getting current attention and the most likely to be updated asasp, so i'm here putting in my input as it's most likely to be looked at in the current moment. Cheers.

 

Edit: Actually I've explained exactly why several times now including once again above on this post. If you don't agree, that's fine but don't act like a reasoning wasn't provided, and that doesn't mean that everyone shares your same opinion.

Edited August 2 by WindDemon21

[Luminara]

7 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

polling

7 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

consensus

 

By which you mean relinquish their autonomy, their right to make decisions about how to spend their free time.  Let other people take control of their personal lives.  Not utilize their time and energy as they choose and/or think is best, but obey.

 

No.

 

7 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

the vast majority who don't even know, nor go on, the beta forums (edit: you know who you are, obv Lum here as well. I've heard multiple times on server chats that people don't go on these forums

 

People who aren't participating in closed betas, and aren't participating in open betas, and apparently not interested in participating on the forums at all, are... going to vote in polls... on the forums...

 

7 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

specifically BECAUSE of Luminara

 

So... a handful of people, who are apparently still buttsore over disagreements which occurred years ago, have spread word of me around so thoroughly that everyone, even the 90-95% of players who never look at the forums, knows of and fears me.

 

Uh huh.  I bet if I log in, join a chat channel and say, "It's Luminara", 99 out of every 100 responses would be, "Who?".

 

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the 100th response was, "wat a lumra".

 

7 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

that doesn't mean you, nor the devs would be "right" in thinking that's what most people would want.

 

When new badges are created, people who want new story arcs complain.  When new story arcs are made, people who want new base items complain.  When new base items are released, people who want new animations complain.  When new animations become available, people who want new costume parts complain.  And so on.

 

If there are 5000 people playing, there will be 10,003 opinions on what's most important, what's most in need of attention, how things should be done.  About the only thing "most people" won't disagree with is that the game should never go dark again.

 

7 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

the battle is trying to get the game to be the best it can be.

 

"Best" according to your definition, to your specifications, in accordance with your preferences.  "The battle" is entirely one-sided.  Hell, it's entirely one person.

 

You wanted a poll?  Look at your own post history and the responses and reactions.  "Most people" disagree with you.  "Most people" don't want what you want.  "Most people" have voted against your proposals and requests.  Even if "most people" were comprised of a silent majority that avoids the forums because they're terrified of me, they could still leverage their overwhelming power simply by thumbs-upping your posts en masse and never interact with me at all (despite your assertion, i don't "follow" anyone, figuratively or literally).  Notice how that hasn't happened?  The purported silent majority that you claim to be in agreement with you... isn't.  Even the people in your echo chamber apparently don't agree with you, given that they're not giving you any support.  That's pretty conclusive evidence that your self-appointment to the position of spokesperson for "most people" is invalid, and that "most people" don't agree that Whitecap was badly designed, or is broken, or "shouldn't" teleport them.

[Indystruck]

anyway, I fought for whitecap to be how it is in beta because it's good, makes sense, and maximizes fun, thank you

[Wavicle]

On 8/2/2024 at 7:28 PM, Indystruck said:

anyway, I fought for whitecap to be how it is in beta because it's good, makes sense, and maximizes fun, you're welcome

 

Fix'd.

[Seed22]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:45 PM, Luminara said:

 

On these servers, the game belongs to Homecoming Servers LLC.  Not "the masses".  "The masses" didn't untangle the code and spin up the servers.  "The masses" didn't form Homecoming Servers LLC.  "The masses" didn't spend five years negotiating with NC to obtain legal permission to use the source code.  "The masses" aren't spending their free time maintaining the game.  "The masses" aren't creating new content.  "The masses" aren't sitting in front of their computers, waiting for support tickets or bug reports.

 

"The masses" are guests, not co-owners, not shareholders, not a board of directors.  "The masses" play for free and don't lift a finger to do any of the work involved in keeping the game up, running and updated.  Telling the HC team that they should be asking for permission to do things or seeking approval for how they spend their free time working on the game is selfish.  Demanding that they redesign something because it wasn't what you wanted is ungracious.  And if that's how "the masses" are behaving, "the masses" can go fuck themselves.

 

 

Hanging with like-minded people and shouting into an echo chamber != vox populi.

 

 

Really?  You see yourself waging war against the people who own the house where you're freeloading?  You've been snacking on those lead paint chips again, haven't you.

When I don’t like something that homecoming does, I vent to my fam about how shit the decision was, then I take a break from the game. So far it hasn’t been severe enough to where I’m gone forever but that day may come.

 

But what I never do is go on a tirade on the forums. You’re not going to get support there for one and for two the people you would get support from lock you out because of your unhinged rants(not talking about you Lumi talking about this person btw) 

 

But in other news, this recent page was so good I actually TEST tested it in closed beta and I’m delaying my hiatus(in part to some IRL things too) from CoH until probably September/October to play the update a bit. 

[WindDemon21]

20 hours ago, Seed22 said:

When I don’t like something that homecoming does, I vent to my fam about how shit the decision was, then I take a break from the game. So far it hasn’t been severe enough to where I’m gone forever but that day may come.

 

But what I never do is go on a tirade on the forums. You’re not going to get support there for one and for two the people you would get support from lock you out because of your unhinged rants(not talking about you Lumi talking about this person btw) 

 

But in other news, this recent page was so good I actually TEST tested it in closed beta and I’m delaying my hiatus(in part to some IRL things too) from CoH until probably September/October to play the update a bit. 

I've done this and quite honestly I'm tired of decisions as of late that make me just feel exhausted being so annoyed by them when they don't have to be there in there first place making a set just annoying to play. The amount of times i'll try to play it and keep getting annoyed just ruins it. So many times I've about had it with the game by how exhausted it's made me but then there is literally no alternative so it extends the effort to fight for what I believe. And that is precisely the problem backing my position. So you don't go and voice your opinions on here, which lots also don't, but that means that if you feel a certain way about a power or change, then it won't get heard, and it doesn't have the chance it deserves to be corrected.

 

You'll also note,

On 8/2/2024 at 9:46 PM, Luminara said:

You wanted a poll?  Look at your own post history and the responses and reactions.  "Most people" disagree with you.  "Most people" don't want what you want.  "Most people" have voted against your proposals and requests.  Even if "most people" were comprised of a silent majority that avoids the forums because they're terrified of me, they could still leverage their overwhelming power simply by thumbs-upping your posts en masse and never interact with me at all (despite your assertion, i don't "follow" anyone, figuratively or literally).  Notice how that hasn't happened?  The purported silent majority that you claim to be in agreement with you... isn't.  Even the people in your echo chamber apparently don't agree with you, given that they're not giving you any support.  That's pretty conclusive evidence that your self-appointment to the position of spokesperson for "most people" is invalid, and that "most people" don't agree that Whitecap was badly designed, or is broken, or "shouldn't" teleport them.

When it's the same 5 or 6 people who just constantly troll the forums, it's hardly the same thing. I never claimed to be a self proclaimed spokesperson, versus nearly just stating what I've seen and heard in game. These people don't realize just how many people are actually playing only but don't go on these forums to voice their opinions, which is partly due to this backlash of said 5-6 people (obviously not everyone, some honestly don't even know about these forum discussions, but there are definitely some). I get i can come across abrasive at times largely due to these people. When an opinion is voiced, if it's basically not what they agree with it's met with instant hostility rather than a simple "I like it this way because", forcing constant re-explanation of the reasons behind it and it gets quite maddening.

 

And Lum, "most people" disagreeing", again usually comes down to these same 5-6 people, and doesn't mean that there aren't others who also agree even ON these forums. Even in this case if most people prefer that it kept the teleport, while me and others still find it out of place, that doesn't mean that we're not allowed to state our opinion here on the matter. (I've stated i like these tp attacks, just that it didn't fit with this set between the cone heal and range boost)

 

On 8/2/2024 at 9:46 PM, Luminara said:

People who aren't participating in closed betas, and aren't participating in open betas, and apparently not interested in participating on the forums at all, are... going to vote in polls... on the forums...

This is part of the problem yes, but adding it somehow to the GMOTD, or at the very least mentioning that the poll is taking place via a GMOTD would be a start. One thing is for sure though, there are a TON of missing viewpoints from people playing the game who don't go on here. This one in particular though I still saw not one thing in game that mentioned that this testing for this set was even going on in beta (which I have seen for past beta patches), so more GMOTDs should exist announcing these at least.

[Bionic_Flea]

14 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

 . . . quite honestly I'm tired of decisions as of late that make me just feel exhausted being so annoyed by them when they don't have to be there in there first place making a set just annoying to play. The amount of times i'll try to play it and keep getting annoyed just ruins it. So many times I've about had it with the game by how exhausted it's made me but then there is literally no alternative so it extends the effort to fight for what I believe.

 

You are, of course, free to advocate for whatever changes you want to see in the game.  But you get so fixated and tenacious -- saying the same thing over and over hoping that the devs will realize their "obvious mistake" if you just tell them once more.  It seems to me you'd be less exhausted if you stopped swimming against the tide and try to see the value and beauty of what is instead of comparing it to what could be.

 

Quote

This is part of the problem yes, but adding it somehow to the GMOTD, or at the very least mentioning that the poll is taking place via a GMOTD would be a start. One thing is for sure though, there are a TON of missing viewpoints from people playing the game who don't go on here. This one in particular though I still saw not one thing in game that mentioned that this testing for this set was even going on in beta (which I have seen for past beta patches), so more GMOTDs should exist announcing these at least.

 

Open beta is announced not just on the forums, but on the launcher.  Everyone sees the launcher.  Everyone also has access to the forums.  They have to make a forum account before they can make a game account.  A lot of people just want to play and don't give a damn about testing or the forums.  They just want to log in and play without testing and debating . . . or even voting.

[Glacier Peak]

22 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

there are a TON of missing viewpoints from people playing the game who don't go on here.

That's each individual's personal decision to choose not to visit the OFFICIAL Homecoming Forums or OFFICIAL Homecoming Discord.

 

In fact, players can't even create a Homecoming Account without visiting at least the Official Homecoming Forums, so it doesn't make sense to say there are players with missing viewpoints - if these players are willingly not providing their viewpoints on the two platforms made available to players to directly interact with the Homecoming Team - to share their thoughts, feedback, and suggestions, that is their choice. When an individual chooses not to avail themselves of the tools to influence change, they are choosing to accept the outcome of their inaction.

[lemming]

And one thing I've noticed on some of the chats, there are people when you say "Hey, you could check the forums" and the reply is "People tell me they're all jerks on the forum and it's worse than General!"   (Obviously a paraphrase)

 

People saying "No, I don't like your idea"  is not being hostile.

 

And people doing testing aren't a single monolithic mindset going along with what the Devs put forth.

[Luminara]

46 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

When it's the same 5 or 6 people who just constantly troll the forums

 

You verbally assault the development team, demand that they scrap everything they've just spent six to twelve months working on, go off on tears about "CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DID THIS INSTEAD OF '<whatever>!  SO BROKEN!  NEEDS FIXED!  COVFEFE!", raise a fuss about things without testing them (and when you do test, you do so with the intent of forcing the development team to acquiesce to your demands, which is biased and unreliable), talk to and about the developers as though they answer to you personally, and when someone counterchecks you, you start in with the "ZOMG TROLLING!  I'M BEING TROLLED!  HALP!" bullshit.

 

Countering your wild exaggerations and atrocious attitude isn't trolling, it's stepping up to do the right thing.  And if "the same 5 or 6 people" are the only ones interacting with you, it's probably because no-one else wants to.

 

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

I never claimed to be a self proclaimed spokesperson

 

You said you were relaying the wishes of "the masses" and "most people", so yes, you did make that claim.

 

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

These people don't realize just how many people are actually playing only but don't go on these forums to voice their opinions, which is partly due to this backlash of said 5-6 people

 

Here, again, you're speaking for "the masses".  You're taking it upon yourself to say that this is the reason "most people" don't come to the forums.  You're not implying that this might be a reason people don't frequent the forums, you're not suggesting that this may be a factor in lower forum traffic, you're flat-out stating that a lot of people avoid the forums because of the "trolls".

 

Right after saying that you don't do that, one sentence previously, you did it.  Again.

 

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

When an opinion is voiced, if it's basically not what they agree with it's met with instant hostility rather than a simple "I like it this way because", forcing constant re-explanation of the reasons behind it and it gets quite maddening.

 

"This power needs to be fixed because you didn't design it the way I want it to work"

 

"You shouldn't have been working on <thing> when <other thing> is so important and I can't believe you didn't fix it years ago and why did you waste all of this time working on that"

 

"This change was terrible and horrible and it makes the entire set unplayable and you guys just don't know what you're doing because you're doing this instead of buffing <whothefuckcares>"

 

These are all things you've said, and they aren't opinions with any value from a development perspective.  They're not just subjective, they're blatantly skewed.  They're biased, self-serving and less than honest, in that they're deliberately worded to make the developers seem to have been lax in their responsibilities, incompetent or deliberately trying to ruin the game.  And as feedback, they give the developers no useful or worthwhile information.

 

You don't give opinions, you give the developers a hard time for not getting your approval for everything they do.

 

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

the poll

 

Why do you have such a hard-on for commandeering the personal lives and free will of the HC team?  Micro-manager?  Control freak?  Delusions of grandeur?  Blow-up doll deflated?

[Troo]

On 8/2/2024 at 6:46 PM, Luminara said:

By which you mean relinquish their autonomy, their right to make decisions about how to spend their free time.  Let other people take control of their personal lives.  Not utilize their time and energy as they choose and/or think is best, but obey.

13 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Why do you have such a hard-on for commandeering the personal lives and free will of the HC team?  Micro-manager?  Control freak?  Delusions of grandeur?  Blow-up doll deflated?

 

What are you going on about?

I don't think that someone was looking to monopolize peeps personal lives or free time.

The dev team has said they are adults who welcome feedback and can take criticism (preferably constructive). They have also said they don't need us to police the forums. (which dangit..)

 

@Devs lots of good stuff. I hope we get more use out of the The Labyrinth Of Fog. Seems like a lot of effort to have a handful of players figure it all out before it even hit live. Maybe some of the features and badges could be doled out of a period of time.. maybe that is what's happening.

[GM Impervium]

Okay okay.

At this point, we're no longer discussing the update, but just ripping into one another. Not very cash money of y'all.

Thank you to everyone who voiced feedback, both praise and criticism. Any further feedback or bug reports should go in their respective places on the forums.

Edited August 6 by GM Impervium