What's your take?

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

Ha you fools! You fell into my trap! This post was a trojan horse for GF!

 

How you going to sit there and be ok with PVP killing at will, citing it as part of the game but not extend the same logic to GF when you have Null available?

 

I've been waiting for @Gravitus to suggest a change to the Flight Pool to make Group Fly something you can cast on enemies.

[MrAxe]

Basically grab as much stealth as you can and pray.

[Neiska]

2 hours ago, Gravitus said:

Ha you fools! You fell into my trap! This post was a trojan horse for GF!

 

How you going to sit there and be ok with PVP killing at will, citing it as part of the game but not extend the same logic to GF when you have Null available? 

 

 

 

It is difficult to know if this is sarcasm, or a serious attempt to make a valid point. Especially since that issue has been dragged across-topics before. But I shall treat it as legitimate and reply as such.

 

One difference is, is you CHOOSE to enter a PVP zone. You opt out of default, by not entering the PVP zone.

Someone doesn't CHOOSE to be affected by group fly. You made that choice FOR them. A choice that they must opt OUT of.

 

"It's just part of the game" is irrelevant. What is stopping anyone from keeping you phased/intangible constantly, so the only powers you can use are self-affecting?

To some builds, such as a Seismic Corruptor or Stone Tanker, the effect is quite similar.

 

And while true, it's "part of the game," you do yourself no favors and win no friends in doing such things.

It would be like being the player in a tabletop game who always shows up playing a murderhobo sort of character, always killing plot npcs, de-railing the story, wasting the DMs time, the other players time, in their need to constantly be the center of attention, even if its negative attention. And then wonder why they aren't welcome back.

 

If someone did that at my game, they certainly wouldn't be welcome back.

 

In short - the difference is personal agency. Or "choice." When using group fly on other people, you are "choosing" for them. 

 

And I do hope this post was sarcasm, because if not it is the OceanGate of comparisons.

[Gravitus]

6 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 

It is difficult to know if this is sarcasm, or a serious attempt to make a valid point. Especially since that issue has been dragged across-topics before. But I shall treat it as legitimate and reply as such.

 

One difference is, is you CHOOSE to enter a PVP zone. You opt out of default, by not entering the PVP zone.

Someone doesn't CHOOSE to be affected by group fly. You made that choice FOR them. A choice that they must opt OUT of.

 

"It's just part of the game" is irrelevant. What is stopping anyone from keeping you phased/intangible constantly, so the only powers you can use are self-affecting?

To some builds, such as a Seismic Corruptor or Stone Tanker, the effect is quite similar.

 

And while true, it's "part of the game," you do yourself no favors and win no friends in doing such things.

It would be like being the player in a tabletop game who always shows up playing a murderhobo sort of character, always killing plot npcs, de-railing the story, wasting the DMs time, the other players time, in their need to constantly be the center of attention, even if its negative attention. And then wonder why they aren't welcome back.

 

If someone did that at my game, they certainly wouldn't be welcome back.

 

In short - the difference is personal agency. Or "choice." When using group fly on other people, you are "choosing" for them. 

 

And I do hope this post was sarcasm, because if not it is the OceanGate of comparisons.

It was mostly sarcasm but since you brought up a point I disagree with I'll address it. 

 

You said free agency vs choice.....I agree that is valid distinction. However I don't think GF fits into the mold of being forced for 2 reasons:

 

1. You chose to enter into a team with the intention on collecting a certain reward. This means you accept the possibility that some powers or tactics maybe used not to your liking that effect the way you play. Similarly in PVP you enter the zone seeking an award of some stripe but accept you may be ganked. I see these as similiar. 

 

2. You can actively stop GF from effecting you, you cannot stop people from actively ganking you. 

 

 

So when you tell me the person doesn't have a choice...I just showed you two choices they had to make to have GF effect them, 

 

 

[Neiska]

Just now, Gravitus said:

It was mostly sarcasm but since you brought up a point I disagree with I'll address it. 

 

You said free agency vs choice.....I agree that is valid distinction. However I don't think GF fits into the mold of being forced for 2 reasons:

 

1. You chose to enter into a team with the intention on collecting a certain reward. This means you accept the possibility that some powers or tactics maybe used not to your liking that effect the way you play. Similarly in PVP you enter the zone seeking an award of some stripe but accept you may be ganked. I see these as similiar. 

 

2. You can actively stop GF from effecting you, you cannot stop people from actively ganking you. 

 

 

So when you tell me the person doesn't have a choice...I just showed you two choices they had to make to have GF effect them, 

 

 

 

1. Ah, but why is that only one way? Why is it that OTHERS must accept group fly might be used on them, and not YOU must accept that most of the team may find it unwelcome?

 

2. You can only actively stop GF from affecting you proactively. Not retroactively during a mission. And, yes, you can stop people from actively ganking you, by simply not going to the pvp zone in the first place.

 

Ultimately, its up to the team leader. If they say its okay, then its okay. If they say it isn't, then it isn't. Regardless of your take on it. And them booting you for doing it after being asked to stop is "part of the game" which has the higher authority on the matter. Its not like you have any way of forcing a team leader to accept it, but they most certainly can boot you for using it.

[Apogee]

3 hours ago, Gravitus said:

There's one guy going around on Excelsior in RV at random times recently, offering 100mil to who can ever beat him. 

 

Pfft, I won't even get out of bed for 100 mil

[Gravitus]

25 minutes ago, Neiska said:

2. You can only actively stop GF from affecting you proactively. Not retroactively during a mission. And, yes, you can stop people from actively ganking you, by simply not going to the pvp zone in the first place.

Ok but that's if you avoid collecting a reward altogether. If your goal is to collect the reward, you have more control over GF not affecting you, than you do in the PVP zones from getting ganked. 

 

25 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 

 

 

Edited September 27 by Gravitus

[Neiska]

25 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Ok but that's if you avoid collecting a reward altogether. If your goal is to collect the reward, you have more control over GF not affecting you, than you do in the PVP zones from getting ganked. 

 

....what?

 

I have 3 accounts with 10+ level 50s on each. On the vast majority of them, I have never engaged on pvp with. Not once.

I have been affected by GF, multiple times. A few of them are built around the concept, some are not.

 

I would say I have more control over pvp than wither or not GF affects me.

 

Just as you can say "you should use the null to avoid GF", I can say to you "why don't you just lead or play by yourself?"

 

The difference here, is that I'm not expecting 500+ people to all go to an npc and turn off GF for a personal choice which is entirely optional.

 

But regardless, we are going in circles here. Lets agree to disagree. Use GF if you want, but don't be surprised if the team lead boots you. Unless of course, you are the leader yourself. And I for one tire of going in circles. Regardless of what you and I think, the team leader will largely do as they like. 

[Gravitus]

7 minutes ago, Neiska said:

But regardless, we are going in circles here. Lets agree to disagree. Use GF if you want, but don't be surprised if the team lead boots you. Unless of course, you are the leader yourself. And I for one tire of going in circles. Regardless of what you and I think, the team leader will largely do as they like. 

Agreed

[Nerio72]

And maybe don't start another topic about the....same topic.

[Indystruck]

My take is after that attempt at discussion you should come see me in a PVP zone

[Kaika]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

It was mostly sarcasm but since you brought up a point I disagree with I'll address it. 

 

You said free agency vs choice.....I agree that is valid distinction. However I don't think GF fits into the mold of being forced for 2 reasons:

 

1. You chose to enter into a team with the intention on collecting a certain reward. This means you accept the possibility that some powers or tactics maybe used not to your liking that effect the way you play. Similarly in PVP you enter the zone seeking an award of some stripe but accept you may be ganked. I see these as similiar. 

 

2. You can actively stop GF from effecting you, you cannot stop people from actively ganking you. 

 

 

So when you tell me the person doesn't have a choice...I just showed you two choices they had to make to have GF effect them, 

 

 

Really?

 

1: Let me correct this, when you enter into a team you are the the whims of the team leader and how they want to run things, and the possibility that they might not want to put up with your play style. Like say, kicking you for refusing to turn off group fly. Just like you accept the fact that someone may gank you in a pvp zone.

 

2: You can just leave the zone, just like you can, leave teams that don't want to put up with you refusing to turn off group fly.By removing you from the team, they have taken correct steps to stop group fly from effecting everyone.

 

and Bonus 3: You clearly aren't over this and that wasn't meant as a joke considering you are still trying to defend it, posing it as someone else goading you into it doesn't change the fact that you seem to think you somehow made a point here. Seriously you had a GM on the first page of the last thread literally tell you that you're wrong, get over it.

Edited September 27 by Kaika

[Luminara]

My take is 60%.  Welcome to da Fambly.

[Seed22]

6 minutes ago, Kaika said:

You clearly aren't over this and that wasn't meant as a joke considering you are still trying to defend the point, posing it as someone else goading you into it doesn't change the fact that you seem to think you somehow made a point here. Seriously you had a GM on the first page of the last thread literally tell you that you're wrong, get over it

I think at this point it’s some kind of unhealthy obsession from OP bordering on a potential mental health issue. 
 

I don’t like to presume given there are a lot of people dealing with a litany of issues in this community at any given time, and I don’t want to make lite of their situations in the process of engaging with whatever is up with OP. 
 

But that’s just what this kind of reads as to me. I’ve seen similar in the past and honestly what may be best is to report and move on. 

 

I forsee this thread being derailed by OP into another GF debacle, and subsequently locked in a few days

Edited September 27 by Seed22

[Kaika]

16 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I think at this point it’s some kind of unhealthy obsession from OP bordering on a potential mental health issue. 
 

I don’t like to presume given there are a lot of people dealing with a litany of issues in this community at any given time, and I don’t want to make lite of their situations in the process of engaging with whatever is up with OP. 
 

But that’s just what this kind of reads as to me. I’ve seen similar in the past and honestly what may be best is to report and move on. 

 

I forsee this thread being derailed by OP into another GF debacle, and subsequently locked in a few days

Yeah I'm aware, I'm just not a fan or the half-joking "hah I tricked you into defending a completely unrelated point", especially when it really does not apply. If was just a joke and he left it at that, it would have been fine, but the moment you stand by it and defend it, its not a joke anymore. I was rather enjoying a rare time when people here where actually having a fairly civil pvp discussion for once, So I felt I needed to make my mind known after a bizarre rug pull, either way I don't see myself interacting with him anymore, I've had him 1* in game for a long time before this anyways specifically for refusing to turn off group fly.

Edited September 27 by Kaika

[Seed22]

5 minutes ago, Kaika said:

Yeah I'm aware, I'm just not a fan or the half-joking "hah I tricked you into defending a completely unrelated point", especially when it really does not apply. If was just a joke and he left it at that, it would have been fine, but the moment you stand by it and defend it, its not a joke anymore. I was rather enjoying a rare time when people here where actually having a fairly civil pvp discussion for once, So I felt I needed to make my mind known after a bizarre rug pull, either way I don't seem myself interacting with him anymore, I've had him 1* in game for a long time before this anyways specifically for refusing to turn off group fly.

Totally understandable. 
 

I’m sure I run at different times as he’s never joined any of my teams that I lead. But I would share in your frustrations if this occurred to me

[Neiska]

17 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I think at this point it’s some kind of unhealthy obsession from OP bordering on a potential mental health issue. 

 

I kind of saw it the same way as well, and tried to demonstrate such in a manner as, well, "curtly" as possible. The post was removed. (shrug) Which is the GMs prerogative/judgement call. But there isn't any need to speak about them like they weren't here or present either. I think we are above that. Or at least, I hope.

 

Except Snarky. Snarky is well below that. 6 feet below. In a coffin. During daylight hours.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Let's please stay on one topic per thread.  This thread started out about PvP etiquette, if any. 

 

We've got several other flying threads out there.  We don't need another.

 

Also, please leave the mental health diagnosing to professionals.  

[Ironblade]

On 9/26/2024 at 7:29 PM, Snarky said:

I knew a long time player with a Pvp strategy.  He set up two accts.  One killed the other.  All.  Night Long.  Every night.  For years.  The PvP I/O drops made him ludicrously rich.

 

So, you know at least two.  I had 3 accounts and did that also.  It wasn't my main source of income on live, but it was easy inf.  Pretty sure that I engaged in every known method of generating inf back then.  Nowadays, I don't bother with most of it.

[biostem]

My 2 cents:  They should offer parallel avenues for rewards, in PvE and PvP, but it is also important to keep it in the back of you head that people will always seek the path of least resistance, and if that means asking people not to attack them in clearly PVP zones, then so be it...

[Ironblade]

15 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I have been to PvP zones several times on Homecoming and every one of those times, there was no one in the zone except for my character and my team mates ... if I'm on a team at the time.

 

Yeah, this is definitely my experience.  Just in case I run into something difficulty, I get a Shivan Shard on EVERY character.  I have never even SEEN another player.

 

To be fair, I once saw another name on the search list.  But I never saw them directly.

To be fair again, I usually go into the PvP zones during the middle of the day, specifically to avoid other players.

[Kaika]

50 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

 

Yeah, this is definitely my experience.  Just in case I run into something difficulty, I get a Shivan Shard on EVERY character.  I have never even SEEN another player.

 

To be fair, I once saw another name on the search list.  But I never saw them directly.

To be fair again, I usually go into the PvP zones during the middle of the day, specifically to avoid other players.

That's kinda how it is these days anyways, you can go into BB/SC/WB at prime times, and walk to your objectives and no one will bug you, zone pvp barely hes enough population for a single zone these days. It's really just one guy in RV last I checked and he needs to dangle money in-front of people to get anyone to show up. Most actual pvp happens in arenas or during events.

Edited September 28 by Kaika

[Gravitus]

20 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I think at this point it’s some kind of unhealthy obsession from OP bordering on a potential mental health issue. 
 

I don’t like to presume given there are a lot of people dealing with a litany of issues in this community at any given time, and I don’t want to make lite of their situations in the process of engaging with whatever is up with OP. 
 

But that’s just what this kind of reads as to me. I’ve seen similar in the past and honestly what may be best is to report and move on. 

 

I forsee this thread being derailed by OP into another GF debacle, and subsequently locked in a few days

For the sake of argument, let’s say it is a mental health issue. What does that say about the people such as yourself who think that and proceed to hit the “reply” button? 

[MoonSheep]

quick, someone create a third group fly thread as this one is about to be locked

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

For the sake of argument, let’s say it is a mental health issue. What does that say about the people such as yourself who think that and proceed to hit the “reply” button? 

Exactly what I've always said.

I'll give you one chance to guess who the nucking futziest is...