Thoughts on Fold Space Etiquette on Leagues and Teams

[Laucianna]

3 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

 

Group Fly can be disabled in a minute and a half at level 1 with no travel powers.  You cannot disable someone else's Fold Space nor Nova.  They're not really comparable.

You are 100% right you can, but most do not remember because it is like taking an umbrella with you despite it being there being clear blue skies outside on the slim chance you will encounter a rain cloud

[Lunar Ronin]

8 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

You are 100% right you can, but most do not remember because it is like taking an umbrella with you despite it being there being clear blue skies outside on the slim chance you will encounter a rain cloud

 

Sounds like that it is their problem then, just like people using Fold Space and Nova badly is mine.

[lemming]

44 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

People have been reporting them every day, multiple times a day since the CoC changed. People have been also complaining about it for as long on discord.

 

Its gotten to the point that this happening even this year since the update to the CoC that its less a reflection of their actions and more a reflection of the intentional inactions of the ones who had made it seem this individual would be held accountable this year but that's categorically not been the case.

I remember them from years past and yes, highly annoying.   Wonder if we park enough people around them with Repel fields?

 

Seriously, the GMs should get on the case with them.  I do remember seeing XP, etc... drop a lot because of that one.

[cranebump]

Man, am I off topic here, but do any of the enemies port you to them? I figure yes, because TP protection is a thing you can slot for. But I can't recall any foes who actually do it. 

 

On topic: Feel like Fold Space presents more problems than it solves (I'm not sure, actually that it solves anything other than cherrypicking a boss out of a mob, or making it to where people don't have to actually, you know, walk over to the enemy). I know FS can be a HUGE pain in the ass for toons with targeted patches or PB AoE's (unless you're coordinating the timing, or can figure out the user's pattern). For the one toon I have that has something like it (Wormhole), I've decided that, on teams, it's just more trouble than it's worth. Better to just lock down stuff and support the scrum. On the whole, I'd be fine with FS just disappearing as a pool power. Then you'd still see it, but on specific ATs/powersets, where it makes thematic sense.

[Clave Dark 5]

1 hour ago, Sanguinesun said:

Except the issue people are getting upset with in the ToT leagues in PI and Kalista Warf is that its 1 person who -NEVER- joins the leagues there and multiboxes their MM's -every year-  all day  and every day of the event for years now who then teleports away the EB's into the middle of their parked multiboxing mms to kill/tag.  

I left myself one star notes on them last year, and I'm seeing them come out of the woodwork this year.  So: yes.

[Ukase]

So, players get teleported in certain instances: 
Magisterium Trial, Chimera will teleport random (I think) players to his location. 
In the Advanced Mode Lady Grey, there are occasions where a player is "teleswapped", where you're teleported to them. Not sure why it's called tele-swap - maybe they send one of their goons in the player's place. Things are far too chaotic for me to discern if that's the case. 

The teleport protection from the pvp IOs, if you read the fine print, they just offer a 20% chance of protection from teleport, not a guarantee of protection from it. 

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Sanguinesun said:

Except the issue people are getting upset with in the ToT leagues in PI and Kalista Warf is that its 1 person who -NEVER- joins the leagues there and multiboxes their MM's -every year-  all day  and every day of the event for years now who then teleports away the EB's into the middle of their parked multiboxing mms to kill/tag. 

I'm not familiar with this player; but I feel like the new CoC update must be having players like this in mind. 

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Sanguinesun said:

Except the issue people are getting upset with in the ToT leagues in PI and Kalista Warf is that its 1 person who -NEVER- joins the leagues there and multiboxes their MM's -every year-  all day  and every day of the event for years now who then teleports away the EB's into the middle of their parked multiboxing mms to kill/tag.  

 

Wow seriously?  I agree with @lemming this is probably a major reason for the CoC updates around multiboxing.  Sadly, if Fold Space is being abused like this, it's probably time for the HC folk to take a look at the power and make some adjustments. 

[Excraft]

44 minutes ago, tidge said:

Number two among the reasons I dislike Fold Space is its base 2-minute recharge time. A Tanker can cast a whole lotta Combat Teleports and Taunts in the time it takes Fold Space to recharge and animate.

 

You'd be amazed at how many people playing tankers don't slot or even use Taunt.

[Andreah]

14 minutes ago, cranebump said:

Man, am I off topic here, but do any of the enemies port you to them? I figure yes, because TP protection is a thing you can slot for. But I can't recall any foes who actually do it. 

 

Yes, some of the recently updated council enemies will do this to you.

[Andreah]

I use Fold Space (FS) a lot. I have it on most of my recent characters, including the kin/fire defender who is my current main.

 

I use FS as the generic "clean-up, on aisle six" power to keep the mobs clustered on our AoE focal point / team center of combat power (anchor).

 

I use FS to steal mobs away from people who are trying to fight them in tactically poor spots, even from Tankers. Then I teleport the tankers to a better spot. Not every tanker is smart about where they fight, or even seems to pay any attention to the map/spawn geometry or team status.

 

I use FS to gather mobs onto the team anchor to Fulcrum Shift off them and maximally damage buff my team.

 

If my team is up to the challenge, I herd distant mobs into the anchor point, and use FS to bring them the last distance they might ordinarily stop to take ranged shots at us from.

 

I use FS to undo the lock-down roadblocks controllers/coms/etc sometimes make when they think they're helping the team by stopping the incoming herd with controls before they get to our kill zone.

 

I use FS to generate aggro for herding -- teleport to distant mobs, FS them into a clump, Fireball the clump, and then teleport back to the team. By the time they arrive, FS will be up again to clump them together.

 

Fold Space is a tactical cornucopia of effective uses. 

 

I'm hardly perfect, and I sometimes mess up with it. 

 

Yes, it can be used badly. But as time goes on, I see more people using it smartly, too. 

 

[lemming]

48 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

Wow seriously?  I agree with @lemming this is probably a major reason for the CoC updates around multiboxing.  Sadly, if Fold Space is being abused like this, it's probably time for the HC folk to take a look at the power and make some adjustments. 

It's not the power, it's the player there.     I'm sure the adjustment to being AFK using TF/AE/Ouro while annoying other players is applicable.

 

I was on a league on another server and there was a MM running the league and using fold space in a similar fashion, but there it was fine since they were active and not just leeching.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

You'd be amazed at how many people playing tankers don't slot or even use Taunt.

 

This guy (points to self) is not amazed. I'll go out on a limb and guess that some fraction of Tankers with Fold Space pass on Taunt to be able to fit The Teleportation pool into their build... to be "better Tankers".

 

I don't encounter (any more) too many vocal Tankers of the type "But my aura is my Taunt! And 'punchvoke'!", but I know they still exist in the wild.

[Crysis]

21 hours ago, mistagoat said:

My only beef with fold space is how it arranges baddies. Occasionally it'll nicely clump them up but more often it drops them in 1 long conga line. Just 1 long single file line and if you got a good number of baddies, that line is a good bit larger than a fire rain or ice patch or similar. I want to love it more but its more a novelty on the toons that I've taken it with.

 

If you've got the height, I find if you leap upwards as high as you can and trigger FS at the apex of the leap, they fall down in a nice tight "ball" and as a bonus, many are falling as if they've suffered a Knockdown effect.  

 

My experience anyways.  Do it this way in the outdoor ITF a bunch for clumping and burning in the killboxes.  But I've seen it being done at the Murder Apartments in PI during TOT events also so I know I'm not the only one who has figured this out.

[Crysis]

2 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

Except the issue people are getting upset with in the ToT leagues in PI and Kalista Warf is that its 1 person who -NEVER- joins the leagues there and multiboxes their MM's -every year-  all day  and every day of the event for years now who then teleports away the EB's into the middle of their parked multiboxing mms to kill/tag.  

 

So Uh....why not just park your league next to their second account MM killbox?  Anyone who tags the critters gets XP.  If they are getting all the XP everyone else is tagging doors to grab, just....join them?

 

I don't see why so many players in this game INSIST on playing things a certain way?  Seriously, if their second box account is doing all the work, take advantage of it.  They will likely either go away when the reward no longer is there or not and you profit either way.

 

Besides.....single player door knockers just pull even-leveled critters.  Only the Team/League players are getting EB's and +4's.

[Neiska]

3 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

Except the issue people are getting upset with in the ToT leagues in PI and Kalista Warf is that its 1 person who -NEVER- joins the leagues there and multiboxes their MM's -every year-  all day  and every day of the event for years now who then teleports away the EB's into the middle of their parked multiboxing mms to kill/tag.  

I would like to go on record in saying that even though I have a few posts about multi boxing MMs, this is not me! 😆

 

In seriousness though, I can guarantee that unless they are using software to multibox, it’s more difficult for them to control and maneuver their pets than a group of random people tagging it. Long as you get a hit in, you should get credit. And if it’s on +4 it will take them time to chew down any EB. 
 

Another option is just to teleport it back? But correct me if I’m wrong here, but I thought EB’s couldn’t be teleported? Or am I thinking something else?

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, lemming said:

It's not the power, it's the player there.     I'm sure the adjustment to being AFK using TF/AE/Ouro while annoying other players is applicable.

 

I was on a league on another server and there was a MM running the league and using fold space in a similar fashion, but there it was fine since they were active and not just leeching.

 

Yeah, it's the player, but the GMs can't be everywhere.  From the sound of it, it doesn't seem like changing the CoC is going to do much either.  I'm inclined to agree I think it might be time to look at how Fold Space is being abused by the select few and make some changes. 

 

51 minutes ago, Crysis said:

Seriously, if their second box account is doing all the work, take advantage of it.

 

Ok sure!  Let's all AFK the events and not bother playing at all!  😂

 

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

This guy (points to self) is not amazed. I'll go out on a limb and guess that some fraction of Tankers with Fold Space pass on Taunt to be able to fit The Teleportation pool into their build... to be "better Tankers".

 

I don't encounter (any more) too many vocal Tankers of the type "But my aura is my Taunt! And 'punchvoke'!", but I know they still exist in the wild.

 

They're definitely out there.  We see it every week on the SNS over on Torchbearer.  Tanks that can't hold aggro to save their lives trying to corral Babbages.

[Andreah]

46 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Another option is just to teleport it back? But correct me if I’m wrong here, but I thought EB’s couldn’t be teleported? Or am I thinking something else?

You can Fold Space or Wormhole 54 EB's if you use an Ultimate first.

 

Edit: Yes, that's expensive; probably not something you'll choose to do often.

Edited October 8 by Andreah

[Andreah]

27 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Most of the time people are used to jumping in a middle of a group and AoEing them down.  The thought ends there, there is no deeper meaning or reason.  Go in, smash, repeat.  Asking or thinking people will retrain themselves just for you is where conflict starts.

 

Altering the battlefield fucks with peoples heads.  Knockback, fold space, wormhole, repel, teleports and so on.  you might push/pull something out of someones burn, rain, debuff.  Hell, even Cone attacks

 

YOU think you are helping by doing things YOUR way but there are generally 7+ others around you who work different, play different and so on.  So yeah, if you are on a grav/traps/teleport Controller and jacking off to the idea that you are pulling things onto your mortar/caltrops/mines thinking you are king of the group meanwhile theres 7 Fiery Aura melee types looking at you in Slowmo like that one Luigi If Looks Could Kill meme from like 10 years ago as enemies disappear from their burn patches you are 100% the problem

 

My experience is completely counter to yours. People do adapt to better team tactics when they're give the chance to work with them. It happens all the times, even on pick-up groups.

 

And if you are on my team and your mobs disappear, even from your burn patch, you were in the wrong place.  Put your burn patch with the rest of the team's AoE's next time. 

[ZacKing]

28 minutes ago, Andreah said:

And if you are on my team and your mobs disappear, even from your burn patch, you were in the wrong place.  Put your burn patch with the rest of the team's AoE's next time. 

 

If that's what works for you and you have fun playing that way, more power to you.  Everyone standing around teleporting mobs into a circle to just AoE/nuke them sounds incredibly boring to me.

[Shin Magmus]

2 hours ago, Andreah said:

And if you are on my team and your mobs disappear, even from your burn patch, you were in the wrong place.  Put your burn patch with the rest of the team's AoE's next time. 

     This part is so real.  I have a Grav/Time and I literally combat TP into the dead center of a group then TP target (using a macro) Singy onto my position so that his vacuum is centered inside the enemy clump.  That character also has Wormhole and Fold Space, and uses them brilliantly.  If for some reason a teammate complains about me helpfully condensing all the enemies into an intuitive, obvious, and telegraphed by both myself and my Singy single point... then they were in the wrong place.

[lemming]

4 hours ago, Crysis said:

If you've got the height, I find if you leap upwards as high as you can and trigger FS at the apex of the leap, they fall down in a nice tight "ball" and as a bonus, many are falling as if they've suffered a Knockdown effect.  

That's a good point.  I sometimes do that especially to pull stuff off ledges.

 

4 hours ago, Crysis said:

So Uh....why not just park your league next to their second account MM killbox?  Anyone who tags the critters gets XP.  If they are getting all the XP everyone else is tagging doors to grab, just....join them?

 

3 hours ago, Neiska said:

In seriousness though, I can guarantee that unless they are using software to multibox, it’s more difficult for them to control and maneuver their pets than a group of random people tagging it. Long as you get a hit in, you should get credit. And if it’s on +4 it will take them time to chew down any EB. 

Going off two year memory for me, but they had three MMs killing everything in a zone and doing the majority of the damage and getting a majority of rewards.  So going next to them, doesn't do the job.   They're not moving, they're just sitting AFK with autoplaying Fold Space.

So leeching off other people knocking on doors since they are not on any league.  iirc, we started getting a PI two to spawn and moving there.

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, Andreah said:

And if you are on my team and your mobs disappear, even from your burn patch, you were in the wrong place.  Put your burn patch with the rest of the team's AoE's next time. 

Now this is some blaming the victim tier stuff.

 

Burn has a rather small radius and there is no way in hell am I able to predict the fold space users actions.

[Crysis]

4 hours ago, Neiska said:

I would like to go on record in saying that even though I have a few posts about multi boxing MMs, this is not me! 😆

 

In seriousness though, I can guarantee that unless they are using software to multibox, it’s more difficult for them to control and maneuver their pets than a group of random people tagging it. Long as you get a hit in, you should get credit. And if it’s on +4 it will take them time to chew down any EB. 
 

Another option is just to teleport it back? But correct me if I’m wrong here, but I thought EB’s couldn’t be teleported? Or am I thinking something else?

 

I multibox often but follow the CoC to the letter.  More often I'm solo on a 50+3 MM trying to grind away my last T4 emps.  

 

I think the issue is some people think that League play is the only "approved" way to ToT.  Personally....I DESPISE the month of October.  So much lag in PI.  Too many players only doing mindless ToT Apartment Murder grinding.  Nobody wants to join teams.  I honestly don't log in much for the month I hate it so much.

 

But, there's always those that insist people only play THEIR WAY.  I think I despise that even more.

 

Where's the Snarky Lounge?  I need to go be anti-social for the remainder of the month obviously.

[Crysis]

4 hours ago, Andreah said:

You can Fold Space or Wormhole 54 EB's if you use an Ultimate first.

 

Edit: Yes, that's expensive; probably not something you'll choose to do often.

 

If you have enough global accuracy and +ToHit you don't need Ultimates.  I'm doing it regularly with a single slotted 50+5 Fold Space and Tactics with a bunch of +Acc and +ToHit bonuses.