Controllers Need Not Apply?

[Akalabeth]

There's so much hostility in this thread... 

 

Personally I think getting into a +4 ITF or radios or mission groups with a bunch of low level controllers and masterminds makes others feel like they are carrying.  Fine if you want to run something like an AE Farm or run an "any level" radio team, but not everyone that joins those likes doing extra work.

On that note, I was useless on a +4 PI radio team earlier this evening on a low level and left after 2 missions because of that.

[Magical]

On 11/4/2024 at 9:13 AM, srmalloy said:

One place I see this regularly -- and accepted -- is in the "there is a known way to beat this content, so this is the One True Way™ way to beat this content, and there is no other way" solicitations. A prime example is the "Critical: Must have Tier 4 Barrier" in solicitations for increased-difficulty Aeon TFs

 

barrier is asked for because it reduces the need for support powersets. if you have fewer barriers, you need more support sets with shields or more skilled players, both of which make the content less accessible, especially to ppl with no experience in 4*. not everyone wants to alt to get on a team, not everyone likes support, and not everyone is good at the game. changing destinies is a much smaller ask.

 

I doubt anyone claimed there is no other way to beat this content, dishonest strawman from you. people have beat it without tankers, without barriers, undermanned, etc etc. but for 4*, especially the ones that get advertised in public and not private discords full of elite players, leaders have to consider what will ensure a good experience and successful completion for the players that join. barrier is accepted because it is the best way to do this.

 

btw if you have no barrier T4 and want to come, most ppl in the community will still take you because 1 less barrier isn't a dealbreaker. just ask nicely instead of virtue signalling on the forums.

 

 

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Magical said:

private discords full of elite players

I get a good laugh out of this. Private discord =/= elite players. May just be a trusted group that knows the content well and speeds it fast. I used to lead PuG 3’s and 4’s, and only recently ran with a discord group. The discord group was objectively better in every human way possible because there was no need to explain and we were all on the same page.

 

To the excluded I’m sure that makes me look elitist. Whatever, it’s not but if just having a group be on the same page and not take an hr and a half to 2 hrs on what should only take 30-45m makes me elitist, then well, I dunno what to tell you.

 

And I’m certain others feel this way as well with their groups.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Magical said:

I doubt anyone claimed there is no other way to beat this content, dishonest strawman from you.

The strawman fallacy is on your part. I never said that the "must have Tier 4 Barrier" route is the only way to beat the SF, only that, because it is a known, readily accessble, and reduced-skill way to do it, it has become the default that immediately excludes characters who a) don't have a T4 Destiny yet, b) only have a single T4 Destiny crafted, and chose something other than Barrier for their play style, or c) don't have a T4 Destiny Barrier in their available crafted Destiny abilities. How much of this is due to the people who want a higher degree of challenge from not rolling with the meta being less willing to solicit for PuGs for the TF and choosing to assemble a team of known players without going through the LFG channel, and how much is due to the people who are soliciting for PuGs using the restriction to reduce worries about the skill of the people who join to be able to run the SF more often, I don't know. What I am saying is that we see the solicitations including this requirement, and people are okay with it, providing a case where that sort of exclusionary filter is an accepted practice.

[Akalabeth]

Any other MMO I've tried in the past couple years has some exclusions related to grouping.  Warcraft has gearscore requirements for (some) groups and raids and guilds.  Black Desert has gearscore for PVP guilds.  Everquest has people saying things like, "no chain heals or bruisers".  Star Wars has the best dancing though. 🙂

 

edit: The population is small so I get how excluding others is not good though.  We should be friends here. 🙂

Edited November 6 by Akalabeth

[Seed22]

22 minutes ago, Akalabeth said:

The population is small so I get how excluding others is not good though.  We should be friends here. 🙂

That doesn’t mean you have to allow anyone who wants to join on your HM 4’s. Thats how you get 4 hr runs. I know this is true because this has happened when I PuG’d a 4*

[Ghost]

6 hours ago, Seed22 said:

That doesn’t mean you have to allow anyone who wants to join on your HM 4’s. Thats how you get 4 hr runs. I know this is true because this has happened when I PuG’d a 4*

A 4 hour run sounds fun!

Thats 4 hours I can spend playing instead of looking or forming PUGs

[PhotriusPyrelus]

On 11/3/2024 at 4:47 PM, DoctorDitko said:

Then, there are those who give the rest of us a bad name.

But the human brain loves shortcuts, so...

It's not "shortcuts" it's pattern recognition.  And when it's the majority "giv[ing] the rest of us a bad name"...

I miss when games were hard enough that CC actually mattered.

[Seed22]

13 hours ago, Ghost said:

A 4 hour run sounds fun!

Thats 4 hours I can spend playing instead of looking or forming PUGs

There’s a difference between these 4 hour runs. If you decide to do a KM 4* or what have you and it’s 4 hrs? Awesome! You do you. But if you get a team together in hopes of getting through the TF in a normal amount of time(at most an hr to hr and a half if not on a meta comp) and it takes 4 hrs? Yeah thats a big problem.

 

 

That’s not playing, that’s suffering 😂
 

 

Hence why I don’t do random PuG 4*’s. If ever I decide to lead 4’s again, I’m doing it strictly the “elitist” way. Only with discord and or the SG I’m in. No randoms, ever, for any reason.

Edited November 7 by Seed22

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Hence why I don’t do random PuG 4*’s. If ever I decide to lead 4’s again, I’m doing it strictly the “elitist” way. Only with discord and or the SG I’m in. No randoms, ever, for any reason.

 

 

I almost strictly PUG and have done countless 4*s with the overwhelming majority of them proceeding without a hitch because most people do not set things that high without the capability to back it up and advertise how they are running so the people coming know what to expect and judge if they are a fit.

 

But I do not have a problem with people going off and forming groups to fit their taste. If that floats their boat, that is fine...they do not owe others anything.

[WuTang]

Well I mean is this any worse that a Team lead running an all Defender ITF?

 

I agree that the lead calls the shots, and I will also concede that there quite a few farm-babies out there that don't know their AT.

 

BUT, all I do is PUG and I take all comers. Using the ITF as an example, since it's 35+ which means you get an assortment of skills and lack thereof. The first leg of the ITF is pretty easy and if I'm running it, I will be on a 50 that can handle it and can do pretty well with just a few decent players even at +4 (don't do star stuff, yet), so it's my litmus test and I will adjust accordingly. I mean as far as I'm concerned, I just wanna have fun and the difficulty setting doesn't affect my machismo, but I REALLY don't want a slog, cause those are not fun. BUT...at the same time don't really want a steamroll either, got to find that balance.

 

Exclusion is no fun especially for the excluded, but people gonna do what people gonna do....

 

I remember once, in my early days when I knew less in-game slang, I had no idea what "smol" was and a smol ITF was forming, well I joined cause I like ITFs. Then I got the "you ain't no smol" from the team and they didn't elaborate, so I bailed. Sure, I felt a lil slighted, but F'em, they lost a good(ish) player.

 

Bottom line....don't get butt hurt, start your own team, and don't exclude just because douchebag did.

[mistagoat]

1 hour ago, WuTang said:

Well I mean is this any worse that a Team lead running an all Defender ITF?

 

I agree that the lead calls the shots, and I will also concede that there quite a few farm-babies out there that don't know their AT.

 

BUT, all I do is PUG and I take all comers. Using the ITF as an example, since it's 35+ which means you get an assortment of skills and lack thereof. The first leg of the ITF is pretty easy and if I'm running it, I will be on a 50 that can handle it and can do pretty well with just a few decent players even at +4 (don't do star stuff, yet), so it's my litmus test and I will adjust accordingly. I mean as far as I'm concerned, I just wanna have fun and the difficulty setting doesn't affect my machismo, but I REALLY don't want a slog, cause those are not fun. BUT...at the same time don't really want a steamroll either, got to find that balance.

 

Exclusion is no fun especially for the excluded, but people gonna do what people gonna do....

 

I remember once, in my early days when I knew less in-game slang, I had no idea what "smol" was and a smol ITF was forming, well I joined cause I like ITFs. Then I got the "you ain't no smol" from the team and they didn't elaborate, so I bailed. Sure, I felt a lil slighted, but F'em, they lost a good(ish) player.

 

Bottom line....don't get butt hurt, start your own team, and don't exclude just because douchebag did.

Slow moving optimized lidocaine? Never seen smol before, what does it mean?

[Uun]

1 hour ago, WuTang said:

BUT, all I do is PUG and I take all comers. Using the ITF as an example, since it's 35+ which means you get an assortment of skills and lack thereof. The first leg of the ITF is pretty easy and if I'm running it, I will be on a 50 that can handle it and can do pretty well with just a few decent players even at +4 (don't do star stuff, yet), so it's my litmus test and I will adjust accordingly. I mean as far as I'm concerned, I just wanna have fun and the difficulty setting doesn't affect my machismo, but I REALLY don't want a slog, cause those are not fun. BUT...at the same time don't really want a steamroll either, got to find that balance.

If you're running a +4 ITF, any non-50s on the team are being carried. The foes are +5 to them and their powers are only 30% effective. If I'm leading an ITF, most of the team needs to be lvl 50  before I run at +4. Otherwise I'm dropping it to +3 or +2.

[Lunar Ronin]

1 minute ago, Uun said:

If you're running a +4 ITF, any non-50s on the team are being carried. The foes are +5 to them and their powers are only 30% effective. If I'm leading an ITF, most of the team needs to be lvl 50  before I run at +4. Otherwise I'm dropping it to +3 or +2.

 

I've led a kill most/steamroll ITF where I was the only 50 on the team... on a Controller... and two people rage quit the team because I refused to set it at +4 difficulty.  They were trained by AE farms and/or PI radio mission farms to think that a single level 50 character can carry a full team of lowbies.

[Uun]

2 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

I've led a kill most/steamroll ITF where I was the only 50 on the team... on a Controller... and two people rage quit the team because I refused to set it at +4 difficulty.  They were trained by AE farms and/or PI radio mission farms to think that a single level 50 character can carry a full team of lowbies.

Many people don't realize that you can lead the ITF at levels other than 50 (all the way down to 35). I find it much more enjoyable to run it at the level of the lowest team member so that everyone can contribute.

[CrystalAI]

My Ice/Storm controller would use aoe immobilize and then hurricane to herd them all together, as repel from hurricane would move them and the immobilize would prevent them from spreading out again.  If I didn't have a corner to herd them into I would run circles around them to keep them in a central spot. Hurricane would also debuff their tohit to almost nothing so I wouldn't be hurt badly while doing so.

[Sovera]

2 hours ago, mistagoat said:

Slow moving optimized lidocaine? Never seen smol before, what does it mean?

 

Internet cutesy way of saying small. It's not an acronym.

[mistagoat]

58 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

Internet cutesy way of saying small. It's not an acronym.

Ohhhh! lol I feel silly now 🙂 thanks!

[Akalabeth]

There's an all illusion ITF forming atm.  I'm offended. 😛

[WuTang]

4 hours ago, mistagoat said:

Slow moving optimized lidocaine? Never seen smol before, what does it mean?

On Everlasting it's the....forget what it's called....but it's the "hologram" that makes you tiny.

[WuTang]

5 hours ago, Uun said:

If you're running a +4 ITF, any non-50s on the team are being carried. The foes are +5 to them and their powers are only 30% effective. If I'm leading an ITF, most of the team needs to be lvl 50  before I run at +4. Otherwise I'm dropping it to +3 or +2.

You do you boo.

 

Edit: Errr...umm...don't mean that in a snarky way....

Edited November 7 by WuTang

[golstat2003]

On 11/6/2024 at 10:52 AM, Seed22 said:

That doesn’t mean you have to allow anyone who wants to join on your HM 4’s. Thats how you get 4 hr runs. I know this is true because this has happened when I PuG’d a 4*

 

Pretty much this. For a lot of us our playtime is limited as we are adults (kids, family job) so if I'm doing a 4* I'm going to look for a group or folks that know what they are doing. A LOT of us don't have 4 hours for a TF like we used to. Not saying every TF has to be a speed TF, but hard mode is a different breed.

 

Also anyone who DOES have time to run a 4 hour 4* has the option to form their own team.

[mistagoat]

11 minutes ago, WuTang said:

On Everlasting it's the....forget what it's called....but it's the "hologram" that makes you tiny.

Oh the tiny costume! Thats kinda fun having the whole team be super tiny!

[Riverdusk]

On 11/5/2024 at 8:20 PM, Akalabeth said:

There's so much hostility in this thread... 

 

Personally I think getting into a +4 ITF or radios or mission groups with a bunch of low level controllers and masterminds makes others feel like they are carrying.  Fine if you want to run something like an AE Farm or run an "any level" radio team, but not everyone that joins those likes doing extra work.

On that note, I was useless on a +4 PI radio team earlier this evening on a low level and left after 2 missions because of that.

 

Pretty much anyone low level doing level 50+4 content is being carried to a decent degree, not just controllers.  You are fighting +5's while a lot of the team is probably fighting +3's (most likely they have a level shift and are 50+1).  At least controllers can sometimes have some nice buffs to contribute.

 

But yes, masterminds are actually in the worst shape trying to "sidekick up' as some of their pets are trying to fight +7's, good luck with that.  Those are the same people that then complain about how 'squishy' MM pets are....well, duh, if you are level 49, the tier 1 pets are level 47 and trying to fight level 54.  They are going to fold like paper.  It is why I avoid joining teams higher level than me when leveling up a mastermind more than any other AT. 

Edited November 8 by Riverdusk

[Ringo]

On 11/5/2024 at 7:39 PM, Tacheyon said:

 

I have a Grav/Energy Dom in the works, so far lots of chaos there along with Dimension shift and Fold Space! 

 

But for Controllers anything Illusion or Gravity paired with Force Field or Storm.   Using Energy, Earth, Psi or Levi for your Epic.  Too bad there isn't anything in the Incarnates to maximize the chaos.

 

Make sure to try a Energy/Storm Corruptor, that'll probably get you kicked off teams really fast!

 

Darn...now I have a few new characters to make....and no ToT crack to level them fast!

 

Edit - Spelling

If you grab Storm Elementals for your Lore you can get another Hurricane!