Don't understand how to play most controllers

[Diantane]

When choosing a controller you have to pick a secondary that complements the primary some way (not one that just adds more powers to over support the team. If you did that, you wouldn't have enough time to do both the Primary and Secondary at the same time.

 

Like if you picked any primary and took empathy, pain, poison, etc. Those secondaries require so many actions that you won't have the ability to control at the same time. Like i made an Electric controller and augmented it with Cold Domination. This is because all I have to do with the secondary is buff the shields on the team every 4 minutes and use the other powers occasionally. If I picked a theme like Fire Control and Thermal, I would be too busy healing players that I wouldn't have time to control anything.

 

I've made and failed several controllers because of this. Had to really think it through as I couldn't just pick any combination.

[TygerDarkstorm]

You shouldn't be in a position where you're always constantly healing; I mean, this is no different than a defender or corruptor. It's okay to let people's health bars drop some if your most valuable tool to use in a moment would actually be a control/blast. Plus, as you get higher in level, the less the heals will be needed because people start building out their characters, even if it's just on SOs. Yes, occasionally you get on a run where shit just goes sideways and you become a healbot, but I don't find that to be super common. It's also part of your job as a support character. And yeah, if you don't want to heal at all, don't roll a healing powerset. Like, what is even the issue here?

[Octogoat]

Oh.

[Psyonico]

I just found out that the Captain Picard face-palm was turned into a bust in 2019... I wonder if you can still purchase them.

 

[Luminara]

As soon as I saw the title, I marked my card.

 

[Jacke]

5 hours ago, Diantane said:

When choosing a controller you have to pick a secondary that complements the primary some way (not one that just adds more powers to over support the team. If you did that, you wouldn't have enough time to do both the Primary and Secondary at the same time.

 

Like if you picked any primary and took empathy, pain, poison, etc. Those secondaries require so many actions that you won't have the ability to control at the same time. Like i made an Electric controller and augmented it with Cold Domination. This is because all I have to do with the secondary is buff the shields on the team every 4 minutes and use the other powers occasionally. If I picked a theme like Fire Control and Thermal, I would be too busy healing players that I wouldn't have time to control anything.

 

I've made and failed several controllers because of this. Had to really think it through as I couldn't just pick any combination.

 

Okay, I've not answered one of your queries before, I'll bite.

 

Having complementary Primary and Secondaries is helpful, but technically that could be any combo.  You need to understand the Secondary Powerset a bit, as it's often the one that skips Powers.  Also helps to understand Control Powersets in general too, as Powers should be skipped there too.  For example, except in rare cases, I never take the AoE Hold as it has much lower Base Accuracy and a very long Base Recharge, making it a pain.

 

Just pick a combo that appeals to you.  Make a build.  Look it up in the Controller Forum to see what others have said.  Ask about it.

 

Here's some combos I know work, either personally or from hearing it from many reliable sources:

• Dark/Dark
• Fire/Kin
• Fire/Rad
• Ice/Cold
• Illusion/Dark
• Illusion/Rad
• Illusion/Storm

Pick the one that appeals to you.  Make a build, ask about it as I mentioned above.  Make and play the Toon.  Judge the Toon on whether you enjoy playing it.

 

 

Edited November 12 by Jacke

[Doc Spectre]

I suggest that you make an Earth/Thermal controller and team all the way to level 50. Then report back on your experience.

[Ridiculous Girl]

trollers in general are not well suited for solo, until they get their pets. but, i do advise to get arcane bolt, from the sorcery pool, early if you lack a decent damage power, like propel from gravity control. arcane bolt works with containment, and when enemies are contained, you will do double damage with it and a knock down. arcane also has the possibility to proc for an instant recharge and get triple damage. which, for the early troller levels, is HUGE! fit it in somehow, i highly recommend it. 🙂

[Jacke]

10 hours ago, Ridiculous Girl said:

trollers in general are not well suited for solo, until they get their pets. but, i do advise to get arcane bolt, from the sorcery pool, early if you lack a decent damage power, like propel from gravity control. arcane bolt works with containment, and when enemies are contained, you will do double damage with it and a knock down. arcane also has the possibility to proc for an instant recharge and get triple damage. which, for the early troller levels, is HUGE! fit it in somehow, i highly recommend it. 🙂

 

Excellent suggestion about Sorcery's Arcane Bolt.  I often take it on Controllers.  With both Containment and Arcane Power (ring around the Icon), Arcane Bolt does TRIPLE damage.

[Doc Spectre]

Out of curiosity I made a Fire Control/Thermal and took it to level 29 this evening. I joined a Frostfire team, did the 2 positron TFs and a Yin TF. It was totally fine, applying the shields was a piece of cake and i wasn’t just healing the whole time. Btw Bonfire with the knockdown Proc is mint!

[biostem]

On 11/11/2024 at 5:00 PM, Diantane said:

When choosing a controller you have to pick a secondary that complements the primary some way (not one that just adds more powers to over support the team. If you did that, you wouldn't have enough time to do both the Primary and Secondary at the same time.

You seem to be coming at this in a sort of "always do everything" mindset.  What you need to do is to think in terms of "what would be the best power to use in **this** particular circumstance;  Do I hold this enemy now, or maybe buff an ally, or debuff yet another enemy.  Controllers are sort of the ultimate toolbox - you have damage, debuffs, buffs, as well as controls.  Yes, they are more complex than your typical melee AT, but in exchange for that, you can pretty much do it all.  What I would suggest is to familiarize yourself with the powersets and essentially work on your situational awareness.

[Psyonico]

3 hours ago, Doc Spectre said:

Btw Bonfire with the knockdown Proc is mint!

Agreed, even after the nerf, its a beautiful thing.

[Death2Tyrants]

On 11/11/2024 at 5:00 PM, Diantane said:

When choosing a controller you have to pick a secondary that complements the primary some way (not one that just adds more powers to over support the team. If you did that, you wouldn't have enough time to do both the Primary and Secondary at the same time.

 

Like if you picked any primary and took empathy, pain, poison, etc. Those secondaries require so many actions that you won't have the ability to control at the same time. Like i made an Electric controller and augmented it with Cold Domination. This is because all I have to do with the secondary is buff the shields on the team every 4 minutes and use the other powers occasionally. If I picked a theme like Fire Control and Thermal, I would be too busy healing players that I wouldn't have time to control anything.

 

I've made and failed several controllers because of this. Had to really think it through as I couldn't just pick any combination.

 

I think it is a fair question/concern and a noticeable effect with certain combos, especially when you are leveling up and aren't IOed yet.

 

Yes. IMO some combos can get very very busy but it varies by team composition and the difficulty settings the team runs. The lower the number of support on the team the busier you will get.

 

From my observations this effect is generally noticeable in pairs with little to no persistent controls (e.g.  no pulsing control patches) combined with heal based secondaries. These combos tend to get pretty busy under harder content and/or weaker teams that have no other forms of mitigation.

 

IMO the best you can do is buff before battle. control and debuff first during combat and heal as opportunities present themselves. In other situations where this isn't enough you'll lean on healing considerably.

[Jacke]

On 11/13/2024 at 3:48 AM, Psyonico said:

Agreed, even after the nerf, [Bonfire with a KB>KD Proc is] a beautiful thing.

 

Even better is use the AoE Immobilize and then use Bonfire without a KB>KD Proc.  KD's a lot more often.

[kelika2]

just go fire control/trick arrow and slot fire control stuff for damage

bonfire + 5/6 bombardment + kb2kd

hot feet slotted how you want, i said screw set bonuses and went 3 acc/dmg hamis and 3 50+5 end redux

fire cages + 5/6 bombardment + end redux

oil slick + 5/6 bombardment

numbers will fucking flyby

 

flash arrow + smoke is a powerful combo

 

cinders cd is too long, skip

slot flashfire for basic stunning, either regular IOs or an ATO.

 

ring of fire and char are also for damage.  both 5/6 decimation.  add a 50+5 hold to char if you want

[Riverdusk]

At least it wasn't declared that the AT is completely unplayable.  Progress.

 

[Doc Spectre]

I agree that Fire/TA is probably better than Fire/Thermal. Fire/Thermal is far from unplayable though. I'm up to level 40 in my experiment now and I hardly have to heal at all.

I put the Overwhelming Force chance for Knockdown proc in Fire Imps and between that and the Knockback to Knockdown in Bonfire most enemies are on their derierre a significant portion of the time.

 

I actually skipped Fire Cages (crazy idea) and have put a slow movement set in Hot Feet. The enemies I don't care that much about (that are not on their backsides and can still move) try to move away from me very slowly and hardy attack at all. If I immobilised them all I think I would be getting shot at a whole lot more. Im using a combo of Char, Ring of Fire and Arcane Bolt (big hit) to bust down tough targets. It may not be the peak of efficiency but it's going well enough to push my team size up to the mid range when solo.

[Ukase]

There's something to be said about a secondary that often tends to outshine the primary. 
This same dilemma the OP has slaps me in the face on corruptors, from time to time. You get on a team, or even recruit a team, and for whatever reason, they seem to require your buffs/debuffs more than the skills your primary provides. (I'm thinking of you, Natural Affinity) 

You have choices. You can just suck it up and let those lengthy activations take their time and buff/debuff the first 15 seconds, or you can alternate between primary and secondary. All up to you. Or you can just let those teammates potentially suffer while you attempt to take control. If you do it right, they'll never even know you made a choice. Easy to say, sometimes not so easy to do, depending on the level difference and your corresponding tohit/accuracy. 

As you dabble around with controllers, you recognize how challenging it can be to play one in the early levels, particularly if solo. But eventually, they become super powerful when played with a creative flair and a decent build. 
 

[Uun]

On 11/16/2024 at 12:26 AM, Doc Spectre said:

I actually skipped Fire Cages (crazy idea)

You should be aware that immobilize improves the knockdown rate in Bonfire when you have KB>KD slotted.

[Doc Spectre]

Useful to know, though I’m level 42 and I don’t feel like I need Fire Cages so far.

[Psyonico]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

You should be aware that immobilize improves the knockdown rate in Bonfire when you have KB>KD slotted.

Does it?

 

I know the kb->kd IO reduces the chance, so using Fire Cages instead keeps it at a 100% chance, but does fire cages actually improve the chance if the IO is slotted?

[Uun]

44 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Does it?

 

I know the kb->kd IO reduces the chance, so using Fire Cages instead keeps it at a 100% chance, but does fire cages actually improve the chance if the IO is slotted?

Using Bonfire on an immobilized targe keeps the chance at 100%, while using it on a non-immobilized target w/ kb>kd reduces the chance to 20%.

 

Bonfire

Sudden Acceleration

[Without_Pause]

3 hours ago, Doc Spectre said:

Useful to know, though I’m level 42 and I don’t feel like I need Fire Cages so far.

It can be a nice source of extra AoE damage when you add in the Control Incarnate since it doubles containment damage. 

[Doomguide2005]

42 minutes ago, Uun said:

Using Bonfire on an immobilized targe keeps the chance at 100%, while using it on a non-immobilized target w/ kb>kd reduces the chance to 20%.

 

Bonfire

Sudden Acceleration

Going to have to pay closer attention on my Fire/Sonic Controller she'll often drop Cages on top of Hot Feet and Bonfire usually while standing in the center of it all with Disruption Field on either her Imps or a teammate she's standing next to.  Never noticed but then she produces crazy amounts of numbers floating up and has always done this.

[Doc Spectre]

So I took Fire/Thermal to 50. I mostly did it through Task Forces including the ones required for Task Force Commander and the ITF, Moonfire ect. so the usual ones.

 

I found that I really didn't need to do much healing at all (practically zero). I guess maybe keeping Forge on damage dealers could be viewed as a chore (it doesn't bother me at all). Applying the 2 thermal shields is a piece of cake now that it does a whole team in one go. 

I have plenty of time for actual controlling. I can also solo x8 if I want to, though frankly I have alts that do it better. Once I'm IOed out to the gills and T3 I expect +3x8 should be reasonably smooth sailing if maybe slightly on the slower side.