How much Acc & To Hit is enough

[Mack008]

I hate missing so I tend to slot for Accuracy and To Hit.  But how much is enough?  Is there a "soft cap" equivalent where it's not worth going above?

[MoonSheep]

i’ve always gone for around ~65%+, set bonuses help once you’re fully slotted too

[gameboy1234]

You can monitor your combat stats.  Open the Powers -> Combat Attributes dialog.  Then under Base you can right click on Last Chance To Hit and have it permanently on your screen.  If you just eyeball it, esp when you're having trouble, you'll get some insight into how your character preforms and what causes misses.

 

Usually it's a big debuff.  Some enemies, especially Dark powers, cause massive To-Hit debuffs.  You're just out of luck at that point, there's almost nothing to do.  The only help is from teammates who aren't debuffed, or just hope to get lucky.

 

The formula btw is Acc * (Base + To-Hit - EnemyDefense).  So Accuracy does nothing if your base to hit has been reduced, and that's what Dark powers do.  Likewise very high enemy defense make them hard to hit, and Acc won't do much.  Moment of Glory (used by Paragon Protectors when they're low on health) will floor your chance to hit, and multiplying a low chance to hit by a number does little for it.  Having ToHit is better in those situations, but little besides powers like Aim, Build-Up, or Tactics provide it.

 

[gameboy1234]

I should add: there's other stats under Combat Attributes that will give you details on why exactly you are missing.  I just don't like having the full list on screen all the time.  But if you're having trouble hitting you can look at Last Chance To Hit and if it seems low, then open up the Combat Attributes, look under Base, and you'll probably see what's going on.

 

[Mack008]

I normally monitor both Acc and To Hit in the upper corner of my screen, just so I know if I'm under a debuff.  Not a bad idea to add Last Chance To Hit.

 

I take Tactics on just about all of my characters, keep ~40% Acc in each attack, and gain another ~45% Acc via set bonuses.  Curious when overkill sets in.

[Snarky]

I always try to get a kismet +to hot in the build

 

then i try to get a leadership or equivalent power, especially for running 54 content and incarnate work

 

to hit is much more valuable than accuracy 

 

 

[Heliphyn34u]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

I always try to get a kismet +to hot in the build

 

 

The yassification proc?

 

[Maelwys]

5 hours ago, Mack008 said:

I hate missing so I tend to slot for Accuracy and To Hit.  But how much is enough?  Is there a "soft cap" equivalent where it's not worth going above?

 

95% Hit Rate vs regular unbuffed +3 enemies is the first goal to shoot for, as that covers you for the vast majority of PVE content. You can also set enemy level difference in Mids and eyeball it before building - you'll almost always be fighting things that are +3 to you or lower (Lv50+1 PC against Lv54 NPCs). 

 

The *next* yardstick is 125% hit rate vs unbuffed enemies. Because that will cap you against regular mobs in 4 star hardmode content.

 

Having an on-demand ToHit buff and/or ToHit Debuff resistance can help too in order to counter specific enemy abilities- that's the main reason Focused Accuracy is still beneficial to take for many melee toons. But the Geas of the Kind Ones accolade can fill in in a pinch.

[Sovera]

If you have Mids and you import/create your build there, and then you set your enemy relative level to +3 (because the incarnate alpha will make all enemies -1)

 

 

you can then check the accuracy of each power

 

 

As long as it is at or above 95% you'll be hitting +4 enemies as much as the game allows.

 

 

There are some nuances such as some enemies having +defense powers such as Cimerorian shouts, some enemies will lower accuracy such as Circle of Thorn ghosts, and some enemies who will require more such as AVs, but they tend to be niche (very few factions have extra defense powers, Focused Accuracy counters pretty much all -accuracy debuffs if it can fit in the build, and AVs are 5% of the content so building for them can be done but can also be considered overdoing it).

[Mack008]

Thanks, Sovera.  That's a good technique.

 

I suspect I've way overdone it.

 

--EDIT--

Yep.  Way over did it.  

 

Imported my favorite blaster into Mids.

Lowest - Slug: 219% against +3s.

Highest - Full Auto: 342% against +3s.

 

I said I hate missing!

 

🤯

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mack008

[tidge]

I think everything has been covered, so I'll add some adjacent information!

 

If a build is using Snipes, the Fast Snipe (yellow ring around the power icon, shorter range) will get a damage boost for every +N% of extra ToHit (not Accuracy!) up to (IIRC) +22%. I find this to be a handy bit of design space for certain builds.

[Ironblade]

Well, on my main character it's important to me to be able to destroy Paragon Protectors running Moment of Glory.  I'll typically have around 40% in each power.  Then I have +57% global acc, the Kismet +to hit unique, Tactics and Focused Accuracy.  When I hit Build Up, those chumps are toast.

 

That's a bit much, but most of my characters have Tactics or Focused Accuracy.  I prefer Tactics since it affects the entire team, but some builds don't have room for it and already have Energy Mastery or Body Mastery.

[Mack008]

9 minutes ago, tidge said:

I think everything has been covered, so I'll add some adjacent information!

 

If a build is using Snipes, the Fast Snipe (yellow ring around the power icon, shorter range) will get a damage boost for every +N% of extra ToHit (not Accuracy!) up to (IIRC) +22%. I find this to be a handy bit of design space for certain builds.

That's an interesting tidbit.  Thanks!

[biostem]

My general rule is to slot the equivalent of ~2 Acc SOs, or barring that, some combination of at least 1 Acc SO-analog + something like tactics 3-slotted for tohit.  Because of how the game works, you'll never hit 100% of the time, but of course you want to mitigate that...

[Biff Pow]

People see Focused Accuracy's low ToHit buff and skip it, but the ToHit Debuff resistance is what makes it really useful (and the +Perception.)

[Sovera]

4 hours ago, Mack008 said:

Thanks, Sovera.  That's a good technique.

 

I suspect I've way overdone it.

 

--EDIT--

Yep.  Way over did it.  

 

Imported my favorite blaster into Mids.

Lowest - Slug: 219% against +3s.

Highest - Full Auto: 342% against +3s.

 

I said I hate missing!

 

🤯

 

You're welcome, and to have that much acc I predict you probably have either Aim/Builld-up toggled on or have a Gaussian proc somewhere which is also toggled on. Be sure to toggle those off if that's the case as it will give the wrong idea of where your accuracy is at.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Biff Pow said:

Focused Accuracy

I just wish the acc was enhanceable.  I agree that the power has *some* usefulness, but the low tohit, (which is the only enhanceable part besides end redux or rech), makes investing slots into it a hard pass for me...

[Mack008]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

You're welcome, and to have that much acc I predict you probably have either Aim/Builld-up toggled on or have a Gaussian proc somewhere which is also toggled on. Be sure to toggle those off if that's the case as it will give the wrong idea of where your accuracy is at.

It's a combination of Tactics, Targeting Drone, and set bonuses giving 79% Acc to everything, and then slotting at least 45% in each attack.

 

I did a handful of fights with Last Chance to Hit displayed, and it never dropped below 95%.

 

I knew I needed to respec this 'toon.  Now I have some more criteria to think about.

[shortguy on indom]

• START HERE...
• Attack Mechanics - Paragon Wiki Archive
• BASE HIT CHANCE IS WHAT IS NEEDED.
• THE 'COMBAT ATTRIBUTES' IN GAME THING ONLY SHOWS AS IF YOU ARE FIGHTING +0 ENEMIES.
• SUGGEST APPROX. 220-250 ACC PER POWER MINIMUM, WHICH INCLUDES AND MEANS ABOUT 50 GLOBAL ACC SET-BONUSES, AND YET YOU STILL NEED ABOUT 50 TO-HIT, IF YOU LIKE END-GAME PLAY AT +3 OR MORE.
• THAT WOULD GIVE YOU 95%ISH IN MOST ALL GAME CONTENT IF AND ONLY IF YOU CHOOSE SOME INCARNATES... EXCEPTION IS SOME LABRYNTH STUFF ABOVE +5.
• BASICALLY, YOU CANNOT GET ENOUGH.

[Zewks]

Really depends on the content you want to take part in.

 

If you are frequently fighting enemies that are 4+ levels higher than you, you will need a lot more accuracy than if you are just doing content at the base level difficulty (enemies at your level or maybe +1 higher)

[Ironblade]

On 12/30/2024 at 7:33 PM, Biff Pow said:

People see Focused Accuracy's low ToHit buff and skip it, but the ToHit Debuff resistance is what makes it really useful (and the +Perception.)

 

Back in the day when I was collecting badges in PvP zones, having Tactics and Focused Accuracy was a big surprise to about 95% of stalkers.  I only recall one ever being able to sneak up on me.

[Ukase]

Forgive the sloppy screen shot - 
But there are 2 accuracy percentages given, the 101.5 and (48) 
I assume you're referring to the 101.5. The 48% refers to the base unslotted accuracy? Seems like an odd value, if so. 

 

 

 

[shortguy on indom]

On 12/30/2024 at 3:26 PM, Sovera said:

 

 

 

As long as it is at or above 95% you'll be hitting +4 enemies as much as the game allows.

• SORRY, IT WORKS DIFFERENTLY THAN THAT.

 

 

 

[shortguy on indom]

• THE 101.5% = ACCMODS
• AccMods  =  the power's inherent Accuracy  ×  (1.0 + the power's Accuracy Enhancements + all global Set Accuracy bonuses)
•  
• USUALLY A POWER'S INHERENT ACCURACY IS BETWEEN 80% TO 120%
• NOT SURE WHAT THE TOTAL OF POWER'S ACCURACY ENHANCEMENTS ARE WHICH ARE BEING USED.
• THE GLOBAL SET ACCURACY BONUSES ARE FOUND UNDER THE 'ADVANCED TAB' IN MIDS.
•  
• ONCE THIS 101.5% ACCMOD VALUE IS FOUND, IT NEEDS TO BE PLUGGED INTO THIS FORMULA:   HitChance = Clamp( AccMods × Clamp( BaseHitChance + ToHitMods – DefMods ) )
• IF THE 'HIT CHANCE' IS OVER OR EQUAL TO 95%, THEN THAT IS THE BEST YOU CAN GET.

EXAMPLE: 

ACCMOD = 101.5%

BASEHITCHANCE = 48% (48% IS THE CHOSEN +3 LEVEL IN MIDS)

TOHITMODS = (GLOBAL TOHIT FROM POWERS + PROCS IS FOUND UNDER 'ADVANCED TAB' IN MIDS)

                           LETS SAY ITS = 50%

DEFMODS = LETS SAY YOU HAVE NO -DEF POWERS TO APPLY ON THE ENEMY... SO = 0%

HitChance = Clamp( AccMods × Clamp( BaseHitChance + ToHitMods – DefMods ) )

                  = 101.5% * (48% + 50% +0%)

                  =1.015 *(0 .98)

                  = 1.015 * (0.95)   SINCE THIS PART IS CLAMPED.

                  = 0.96425

                  = 0.95     SINCE HITCHANCE IS CLAMPED

                  = 95% AT +3 LEVEL

• IF YOU HAD LESS THAN AROUND 50% GLOBAL TOHIT, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LESS THAN 95%
• HOPE IT HELPS.

 

 

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

Forgive the sloppy screen shot - 
But there are 2 accuracy percentages given, the 101.5 and (48) 
I assume you're referring to the 101.5. The 48% refers to the base unslotted accuracy? Seems like an odd value, if so. 

 

 

 

48% is the Base Hit Chance of this power against the enemy level you've selected at the top.
It includes each Power's inherent "Accuracy" (which is 1.00 in the case of Fire Sword)

Versus an even-level foe, the Base Hit Chance of a power with regular 1.00 Accuracy is 75%.
Versus +3s the Purple Patch will reduce this to 0.65*0.75=0.4875; which is where that 48% figure is coming from after things are rounded/truncated.

101.5% is the Current Hit Chance of the power; after it's been adjusted for any Accuracy Slotting and Set Bonuses and ToHit Buffs that Mids knows about and that are currently flagged as activated. Whenever this figure reaches 95% you should have a Capped Hit Chance against enemies of the selected level (providing that Mids accuracy values for the power in question are correct; and that the enemy's defence is not being buffed nor your ToHit chance debuffed!).

Whilst you won't need to plug anything into a hit chance formula manually... be aware that Mids' totals are often a few tenths of a percent off what things are actually like in-game; and many of the power accuracy scalars are incorrect in Mids (particularly Epic Pool Powers like Dominate and Char). There's also a longstanding issue with Rain Powers being thought of as 2.00 accuracy rather than 1.00. So it's often worth confirming the ACTUAL accuracy scalar of each power via CoDv2 and the in-game Detailed numbers display; or just assume that everything is 1.00 Accuracy until you prove otherwise.

You can enable viewing Mid's internal Power Database by pressing the Key Combination Ctrl-Alt-Shift-A



And here's an example of an incorrect accuracy scalar in Mids:



Sentinel Psionic Mastery Epic Pool's Dominate actually has an accuracy modifier of 1.00, not 1.2 as claimed here.

Also note that since the Alpha Incarnate Slot provides a +1 level buff to the player; +3 enemies are the usual maximum you'll encounter at endgame outside of any content with special level shift mechanics like the Labyrinth and so having 95%+ Hit chance against them without any "Build Up" type powers/procs active is a good performance yardstick. However when planning for "Advanced Difficulty" content you'll need to factor in the additional defence buffs in play - foes in 4 Star content get an extra flat +30% Def buff which means you'll need to aim for 125% in Mids rather than 95%.
 

Edited yesterday at 01:47 AM by Maelwys