Bait and Switch team recruitment

[Techwright]

I've been seeing a lot more of this of late, and its becoming a real annoyance.   I'm playing one of my 50s, accept a PUG invite to a task force or trial, and once the full team is assembled, the team lead declares: "Okay, which 50 wants to lead the task force?"  Bait and Switch. Sometimes there's another 50, often all eyes skim the list and find I'm the only one, and suddenly, I'm in an unwanted position. 

 

Personally, if I'd wanted to lead this task force, I'd have been the one recruiting.  I've done it many, many times over the last 20 years.  I've zero problems with initiating it myself...except, real life has changed and now there are certain medical conditions in my household that might require my unexpected, immediate safety intervention.  I might have to step away for an extended time.  Such an urgent response has less effect on the team when I'm a grunt standing outside an instance door than when I lead and the team depends on me for things like contact check-ins.

 

I only point this out as just one behind-the-curtain example of why people don't lead teams.  Reasons don't need to be spelled out.  If they wanted to recruit and lead, they would have.  When one joins a task force, it should be a sign that they are willing to work at the recruiter's level minus one.  A TF recruiter in turn should either stick to leading or be up front in the recruitment phase with his intentions: "I'm recruiting but will be asking a higher rank to take over", or words to that effect.

[Uun]

12 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I'm recruiting but will be asking a higher rank to take over

If I'm recruiting and not at max level for the TF, I'm prepared to run it at my level. That said, once the team is assembled, I'll ask if anyone over max level wants the star. This doesn't mean a 50 - I recruited for a Citadel recently and asked if anyone over 30 wanted the star (I was 28). This affects the difficulty level (Signature TFs always spawn at max level plus the leader's notoriety) and often makes more powers available. I don't view this as bait and switch, but a courtesy. 

[DoctorDitko]

Honestly, I expected to hear about folks recruiting for a "Kill Most ITF" which changes into a speed run. I hate those!

 

Communication solves most of these problems: LFG, we need a 50 to lead, then assorted levels are welcome.

 

 

[Uncle Shags]

21 minutes ago, Uun said:

I don't view this as bait and switch, but a courtesy. 

This is it.  Recruitment is arguably the "hardest" part of leading a team.  They've done that.  Then, by asking if someone higher level wants to lead, they are offering to give others access to more of their powers.  The person asking isn't trying to get out of anything, and burden someone else  - they're trying to help.

 

For example, I like to do the posi 1 tf as soon as I can.  Level 8.  So I advertise in lfg, get 7 and get ready to go.  But, since the tf tops out at 15 (I think it's 15?) if I'm the one who starts it players will be exempted to my level and not have access to several of their powers.  Sometimes those powers are really significant and people would love to have access to them. Depending on the tf and level it might be the difference between having fulcrum shift or not.  Or losing access to your incarnates. So I do everyone a favor and offer to give up the lead for the greater good.  If no one wants to, that's fine by me!  

 

If you don't want to lead you can always say you can't.  There's no obligation. 

[Luminara]

[UltraAlt]

3 hours ago, Techwright said:

I've been seeing a lot more of this of late, and its becoming a real annoyance.   I'm playing one of my 50s, accept a PUG invite to a task force or trial, and once the full team is assembled, the team lead declares: "Okay, which 50 wants to lead the task force?"  Bait and Switch. Sometimes there's another 50, often all eyes skim the list and find I'm the only one, and suddenly, I'm in an unwanted position. 

 

Some people are stuck on the mentality that the 50 should lead every team that they are on.

When ever this kind of comment comes up when I'm on a team, I'll generally say "You recruited, you should keep the star" or "X recruited, they should keep the star"

 

2 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

The person asking isn't trying to get out of anything, and burden someone else  - they're trying to help.

 

Or they could think that they will get more xp out of the lead being a higher level than themselves.

Being on a task for with mixed level characters, the characters that are at the low end of the task force's level window are going to be at a disadvantage if the task force is set at max level (versus closer to their own level).

 

2 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

For example, I like to do the posi 1 tf as soon as I can.  Level 8.  So I advertise in lfg, get 7 and get ready to go.  But, since the tf tops out at 15 (I think it's 15?) if I'm the one who starts it players will be exempted to my level and not have access to several of their powers.

 

But, if you run it at base level, the CoTs don't have a good number of their powers that can really be a pain in the butt if you don't have any anti-mez powers yet (and, yeah, most squishies don't have any). The enemies powers change based on their level as well.

 

2 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

So I do everyone a favor and offer to give up the lead for the greater good.

 

I do not believe giving up the star to the highest level character is for the greater good. That's your call.

I've seen too many task forces meant for leveling turned into speed runs by someone giving up the star. The recruiter has no way to stop that behavior once they have given up the star.

 

I, for one, never give up the star if I am the recruiter.

[SmokinIndo]

The only responsibility that comes with having the star is being the guy who calls the contact after every mission. You're not commanding the US Army. You're not getting court-martialed if your team wipes.  I don't know why some people are so afraid of "leading" task forces. I've had star many times without saying a single word in chat.

Recruiting is the hardest part of any TF, and that's no longer your responsibility. It's not such a terrible burden being the 50 who leads so everyone gets scaled to the highest level. Nobody expects anything more from you.

Edited February 12 by SmokinIndo

[UltraAlt]

45 minutes ago, SmokinIndo said:

Nobody expects anything more from you.

 

I do.

[JJDrakken]

I had several in game buds tell me that and chaos that happens.

 

I was like wait what? This is a real thing?  ROFL, I swear we got some "special" folks here.  I'm so use to always team leading what ever I'm doing. So I never see this, I very rarely join other groups, cept maybe random TF or the very very very ultra rare iTrial.

Edited February 12 by JJDrakken

[High_Beam]

Bait and Switch?  Absolutely.  And when it happens I tend to punch out of that team.  The only exceptions are when it is comprised of SG mates or its a league thing like an invasion or raid,

[tidge]

5 hours ago, Techwright said:

I've been seeing a lot more of this of late, and its becoming a real annoyance.   I'm playing one of my 50s, accept a PUG invite to a task force or trial, and once the full team is assembled, the team lead declares: "Okay, which 50 wants to lead the task force?"  Bait and Switch. Sometimes there's another 50, often all eyes skim the list and find I'm the only one, and suddenly, I'm in an unwanted position.

 

[Crossie]

Accept leadership of the group then kick the person who organized it.  Run the TF thereafter.  Everybody loves a little drama. 

[biostem]

7 hours ago, Techwright said:

I've been seeing a lot more of this of late

The one I seem to keep running up against is where someone starts a team on one of their 50s, then after a few missions, if there's other 50s present, they declare that they're going to switch to a non-50 alt, meaning that someone else will have to do the mission getting...

[Scarlet Shocker]

First world problems.

 

I've never actually seen someone pass the star to an unwilling participant. I've seen a lot of team formers offer to pass star to higher levels who may or not accept it.

 

The reason for this is simple: Many people are unwilling to form the team so there are folk forming the team than wanting to team.

 

You don't have to lead, and if they poke you with a star, just tell them no and pass it back or quit and form your own team then the issue doesn't arise.

[Water]

I've had the star shoved onto me without a single word countless times. In that case I have left the team. I don't mind leading but I'm a much better joiner.

 

[Ironblade]

I've had this happen and I have exactly zero problem with it.  I'm not going to make any decisions but I have no problem with being the person calling the contact.

[Carnifax]

22 hours ago, Uun said:

If I'm recruiting and not at max level for the TF, I'm prepared to run it at my level. That said, once the team is assembled, I'll ask if anyone over max level wants the star. This doesn't mean a 50 - I recruited for a Citadel recently and asked if anyone over 30 wanted the star (I was 28). This affects the difficulty level (Signature TFs always spawn at max level plus the leader's notoriety) and often makes more powers available. I don't view this as bait and switch, but a courtesy. 

This is me too. I've always read it as "I can do it at my level but some of you might end up missing your shinier powers, so does anyone else want to?"

 

Happened with a Yin I joined during the week. Leader asked the question, I happily took the star, asked what diff we wanted, set it accordingly and off we went. 

 

If someone tried to drive-by Star me, especially for a mission team rather than a TF I'd just quit and move on. 

[JJDrakken]

I guess I can get it. Being a Team Lead can be scary!  You gotta deal with all other shenanigans and asshattery.  While trying keep the team flowing and being aware of WTF is going on around you. (Proper lead should be at least.)

 

That's a lot work, when all you wanna do is hop in and zapp, smash, blap, your way to victory.  Reason I tell folks 96% of the server want teams. Only 4% are actually taking time & effort to lead/form the teams. (Sure some made up stat of mine, but I ain't far off).

 

Thing is that 4% pool never grows, may shrink some but never really gets past that 4%.  Leads will stop leading cuz they are tired dealing with the B.S. of it or stop playing or go to a more private role with specific people and stops dealing with the general populace aka the Private Sector, lol.

The thing is, us as a community honestly & truly take the time to teach the general masses on, hey stop being a twat and pissing off all the Team Leads to point they stop wanting to lead. Maybe we would get more folks stepping up to lead a team and most the community(Well least on X) would stop begging for Farms(well maybe, we do have a lot of lazy players).

 

Just an Idea.

Edited February 13 by JJDrakken

[tidge]

I can take-or-leave leading teams.

 

Frankly, the biggest annoyance I have with forming teams (and to a slighter extent, joining teams) is the gauge of "how long to wait?" before launching content that will close... so TFs/SFs/Ouroboros. I know I *want* to get to the content; I work off the assumption that those who have joined feel likewise. Waiting after a tell is fine, but recruiting for more than 5 minutes seems excessive for most content.

 

I never fuss over AT selection; I roll my eyes when I see those requests. I understand if specific ATs are requested for a specific badge.

[Techwright]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:52 AM, Uun said:

If I'm recruiting and not at max level for the TF, I'm prepared to run it at my level. That said, once the team is assembled, I'll ask if anyone over max level wants the star. This doesn't mean a 50 - I recruited for a Citadel recently and asked if anyone over 30 wanted the star (I was 28). This affects the difficulty level (Signature TFs always spawn at max level plus the leader's notoriety) and often makes more powers available. I don't view this as bait and switch, but a courtesy. 

It's a good point, thank you for making it, and I should clarify.  I've had the kind of teams you mention.  I do see those as a courtesy.  I'd note the difference is "option".  When a lead gives an option for someone higher to lead, but is willing to continue as lead, its not so much of a problem.  When the recruiter announces they won't be leading and the star is going to someone else, that's the issue.

 

On 2/12/2025 at 3:24 PM, SmokinIndo said:

The only responsibility that comes with having the star is being the guy who calls the contact after every mission. You're not commanding the US Army. You're not getting court-martialed if your team wipes.  I don't know why some people are so afraid of "leading" task forces. I've had star many times without saying a single word in chat.

 I think some folks have only read part of my OP.  In which part did I say I was "afraid"?  I stated the opposite quite clearly.  I used to enjoy the team lead, I've even done league leads, though I admit I don't find that as enjoyable.  I also pointed out there's a RL condition involved that affects my level of participation, and noted it as but one example.

 

I'd also note that speaking to the contacts is a point of holding up the team.  I mentioned that too in the OP.  Further, it is not the only duty of the lead, just the main one.  The lead has the responsibility for adjusting difficulties and for settling problems within the team.  None of which the leader can do if they have to step away.

 

20 hours ago, Water said:

I've had the star shoved onto me without a single word countless times. In that case I have left the team. I don't mind leading but I'm a much better joiner.

 

While not countless in my case, I have experienced this as well.  I truly wish I could say never as Scarlet Shocker can.  I actually got yelled at in a league not long ago, wondered why, looked at the league roster and realized that the guy who recruited it, dropped it in my lap without announcement, and left me to tidy it up.  Personally, I hate leaving a team.  I feel like I'm failing the other 6 chaps.  But I realize some times, there's just not a great option.

[TheMoneyMaker]

Asking if anyone higher level is not bait and switch or even an issue. It's offering the option for higher level people to retain more of their powers. If you are one of those higher level people with the mentality that if you wanted to lead you would have recruited, then don't volunteer. Unless the star is forced on you, I don't see an issue with the recruiter asking.

[Uncle Shags]

Duly noted:

 

Not good to assume people's motivations when they offer to give up the star. 

 

Not good to assume everyone has the same desire or ability to take the star. 

 

Not good to assume that willingness to give up the star is the same for everyone. 

[Dogooder]

Sorry that happened to you. The goal is for all parties to communicate needs and wants. If I think I've been mislead, mistreated, not communicated effectively with or miscommunicated to, I'll leave the group. Their miscommunication or mistake is not your problem. 

[Neiska]

Boy oh boy, this topic can only go to great places. I better get my popcorn!🍿 

 

If it bothers you that much, you can always just quit the team. Usually the best option if other people play in a way you don’t like, vs them trying to make you play it their way or you making them play it yours.

Edited Friday at 11:52 AM by Neiska
Spelling

[Ghost]

20 hours ago, tidge said:

I can take-or-leave leading teams.

 

Frankly, the biggest annoyance I have with forming teams (and to a slighter extent, joining teams) is the gauge of "how long to wait?" before launching content that will close... so TFs/SFs/Ouroboros. I know I *want* to get to the content; I work off the assumption that those who have joined feel likewise. Waiting after a tell is fine, but recruiting for more than 5 minutes seems excessive for most content.

 

I never fuss over AT selection; I roll my eyes when I see those requests. I understand if specific ATs are requested for a specific badge.

I always laugh when I see

“Forming ITF Speedrun.  Level 50+ ONLY”

Spammed for longer than it would have taken to complete a normal ITF without all lvl50s