Saga Mode

[battlewraith]

  20 hours ago, Excraft said:

You're still selecting the same powers from the same sets, so there's nothing new here other than the order you're picking them.  You're reshuffling a deck and trying to say its a different deck, but it isn't.  It's the same deck.

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The order matters. Even in a card game the way you shuffle and pick the cards matters. People wouldn't be freaking out if it didn't matter.

 

  20 hours ago, Excraft said:

This is a nonsensical argument.  Why bother with levels and progression at all then? 

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Lol, because you've bothered with that progression for over 20 fucking years. What part of that do you not get. I get the coding objection. What I don't get is the complaint that, under certain circumstances, my usual rules of progression won't happen--and the sky will fall as a result.

  20 hours ago, Excraft said:

Adding in the WST system is what got people to play content at varying levels.  If you are looking to "breathe new life into old content", a far better suggestion is to expand the WST to include story arcs as well, not just TFs/SFs/Trials.  As far as producing new power sets, new missions, new zones etc., those things are new.  Saga mode definitely isn't. 

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Sure. Add incentives to have people speedrun more of the content. I'm not against that, but it's not innovative in any way.

[ZacKing]

  19 hours ago, battlewraith said:

The order matters. Even in a card game the way you shuffle and pick the cards matters. People wouldn't be freaking out if it didn't matter.

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Yes, the order does matter.  That's why the game is designed the way that it is because the level at which you get access to certain powers matters.  Your suggestion is to break that because you're bored of low level content.  Your boredom isn't worth breaking the game, sorry.  And I agree, you're slapping a new paint job on an old car and calling it a whole new car.  It's not.

 

  19 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Lol, because you've bothered with that progression for over 20 fucking years. What part of that do you not get. I get the coding objection. What I don't get is the complaint that, under certain circumstances, my usual rules of progression won't happen--and the sky will fall as a result.

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How the game is built and how you progress is a big part of what has endeared the loyal fan base to it over those 20 years.  What part of "it would break the game" are you not getting?    If you don't understand that, although I suspect you do and are just being obtuse, then I don't know what to tell you.  Breaking something that's worked for 20 years and people still are enjoying and playing isn't an improvement. 

 

  19 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Sure. Add incentives to have people speedrun more of the content. I'm not against that, but it's not innovative in any way.

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Saga mode isn't innovative.  By your own admission, your suggestion would make it easier for people to blow through/speed through low level content, so what's the difference?  At least with the WST, there's an incentive for a tangible reward for playing through content. 

 

  20 hours ago, Excraft said:

If you are looking to "breathe new life into old content", a far better suggestion is to expand the WST to include story arcs as well, not just TFs/SFs/Trials. 

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^ This is an INFINITELY better idea than "saga mode". 

 

  20 hours ago, Excraft said:

As far as producing new power sets, new missions, new zones etc., those things are new.  Saga mode definitely isn't. 

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100% agreed

[Ghost]

Wouldn’t steamrolling through lower level content with your new power selections, get boring pretty quickly?

Thus leaving you in the same situation you are now?

[Excraft]

  18 hours ago, Ghost said:

Wouldn’t steamrolling through lower level content with your new power selections, get boring pretty quickly?

Thus leaving you in the same situation you are now?

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Yeah but it's a "new" and "innovative" way to get bored quickly! 🤣

[battlewraith]

  18 hours ago, ZacKing said:

How the game is built and how you progress is a big part of what has endeared the loyal fan base to it over those 20 years.  What part of "it would break the game" are you not getting?    If you don't understand that, although I suspect you do and are just being obtuse, then I don't know what to tell you.  Breaking something that's worked for 20 years and people still are enjoying and playing isn't an improvement. 

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Once again, you assert that this will break the game without offering any justification for how that would happen. Nobody would make you do this mode. Nobody would force you to play this mode. 

 

How you progress is a big part of what has endeared the loyal fanbase to it over those 20 years? Bullshit. That's true for some people, not all. Pvpers almost always viewed this leveling progression as a hassle they had to deal with in order to pvp, which is why the temporal warrior feature was added. A lot of farmers don't give a crap about it, they are just grinding resources as efficiently as they can. PLers have experimented since release to find ways of skipping this progression. That skipping is the norm now for a lot of people--plan the character, get it to 50, then play it.

 

It's not that I'm being obtuse. It's that you're so wrapped up in how you view things and want to play that you don't even seem to register how players are actually using the game now. And the irony is that my idea is an attempt to make that material that is being actively avoided somehow novel or interesting. Oh no, this idea will disrupt level progression--lol that ship has sailed. It's long gone. You're posturing like this is still the retail days.

[battlewraith]

  18 hours ago, Ghost said:

Wouldn’t steamrolling through lower level content with your new power selections, get boring pretty quickly?

Thus leaving you in the same situation you are now?

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I'm playing a tank. I'm like lvl 38. I took all the powers from the primary and had to wait on the ones I wanted in the secondary. I PLed it to where I had all the powers I wanted and then started using it in missions. If this feature had been an option, I would've probably leveled it on missions from the get go. Also, we still have to missions difficulty settings. I think the the supposed steamrollering would not be as amazing as people would be making it out to be.

Edited 16 hours ago by battlewraith

[PeregrineFalcon]

  16 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Once again, you assert that this will break the game without offering any justification for how that would happen. Nobody would make you do this mode. Nobody would force you to play this mode.

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Ok, let me give you my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

If your mode were created by the devs, I'd roll a EM/Shield Scrapper. By level 4 I'd have Total Focus, Energy Transfer, and the mez toggle. This would clearly make my character far more powerful than any current character at level 4. It'd be hilarious, but would it really make a difference though? Well, Posi run times would probably decrease drastically. People would have some crazy OP builds in Bloody Bay. We'd run some missions faster, for the hour or two we spend under level 20. That's it.

 

The truth is that we already spend so little time below level 20 that I don't think it'd make any meaningful difference in truth, but it certainly could in perception. It's very possible that, the early game at least, could change drastically in ways we can't foresee and that could affect the attitude of the players and the perception of the game as a whole. I'm not sure how, but if I could figure it out then it wouldn't be unforeseen.

 

I'm sorry if you're frustrated because people don't agree with your suggestion. All I can say is, I'm not disagreeing with your suggestion just to be a jerk, I honestly believe it would be a ton of work for the devs in return for no positive benefits. That's not your fault, and it doesn't mean you're dumb or a bad person, and it doesn't even mean it's a bad suggestion. It just means that I disagree with it. That shouldn't really matter to though, I'm not a dev. I'm nobody.

 

TL;DR: I think doing something like this would be an incredible amount of work for the developers in return for very little positive effect and a possible very negative effect.

[Chris24601]

Alternative suggestion for using the term Saga Mode.

 

Saga to me implies a story.

 

I also see this suggestion as a way for Homecoming to put its best foot forward.

 

In terms of setup, the Devs would select what they feel are the best quality story arcs and missions sufficient to bring a character all the way from level 1 through 50.

 

When you select Saga Mode the contacts would automatically be granted with call access and automatically granting the next contact in the selected chain. Finally, the Saga mode missions never level out… you just autoexemp down to the max level for each mission.

 

That’s it. Just the ability to play through what the devs feel is the best content Homecoming has to offer without needing to search it out or accidentally miss it entirely.

 

 

[golstat2003]

  18 hours ago, Ghost said:

Wouldn’t steamrolling through lower level content with your new power selections, get boring pretty quickly?

Thus leaving you in the same situation you are now?

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It would, the discussion so far is making not understand what the OP is looking for more and more. If the idea is to make the game more interesting, this isn't it.

[Excraft]

  16 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Once again, you assert that this will break the game without offering any justification for how that would happen.

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How it would break the game has been explained by several posters here over several follow up posts.  You're just deliberately choosing to ignore those posts because they refute your idea.

 

  16 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Nobody would make you do this mode. Nobody would force you to play this mode.

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No one is forced to bypass the content either.  No one is forced into PLing alts in AE either.  If people wanted to play through the content to level their characters, they will, and there are a great many that do.  Your idea isn't going to entice anyone who farms up alts into playing the content the "normal" way.  Being stuck with SOs only would be a huge deterrent.

 

  16 hours ago, battlewraith said:

How you progress is a big part of what has endeared the loyal fanbase to it over those 20 years? Bullshit.

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The only bullshit in this thread is the suggestion of "saga mode" and the notion that it would make the content "more appealing".  If people weren't interested in progression, other servers like Cake where you get a free 50, any enhancements you want, every possible badge, Tier 4 incarnates and 2 billion inf right in Atlas Park at level 1 would have much larger populations. 

 

  16 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Pvpers almost always viewed this leveling progression as a hassle they had to deal with in order to pvp, which is why the temporal warrior feature was added.

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I'm sure the three people who actively PvP here appreciate that too.  They still need alts in the regular game to earn stuff for their PvP alts.  I'm fairly confident they would have zero interest in your "saga" mode and would just continue farming in AE.

 

  16 hours ago, battlewraith said:

It's that you're so wrapped up in how you view things and want to play that you don't even seem to register how players are actually using the game now.

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You're doing the exact same thing you're berating someone else for.  Quite clearly there are many different people in the game with many different ideas on how they want to play.  You don't speak for them, nor do you have any idea what the majority of players want. 

 

  16 hours ago, battlewraith said:

And the irony is that my idea is an attempt to make that material that is being actively avoided somehow novel or interesting.

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Your idea isn't making the content more novel or interesting.  It just means you're stuck with a character that can't take advantage of the invention system and would perform vastly inferior to other players.  THAT is something to be actively avoided.

 

  16 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Oh no, this idea will disrupt level progression--lol that ship has sailed. It's long gone.

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For you it might be.  It hasn't for others.

[Excraft]

  15 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Alternative suggestion for using the term Saga Mode.

 

Saga to me implies a story.

 

I also see this suggestion as a way for Homecoming to put its best foot forward.

 

In terms of setup, the Devs would select what they feel are the best quality story arcs and missions sufficient to bring a character all the way from level 1 through 50.

 

When you select Saga Mode the contacts would automatically be granted with call access and automatically granting the next contact in the selected chain. Finally, the Saga mode missions never level out… you just autoexemp down to the max level for each mission.

 

That’s it. Just the ability to play through what the devs feel is the best content Homecoming has to offer without needing to search it out or accidentally miss it entirely.

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This is a far better idea for a "saga" mode.

[arcane]

As a side note, no matter who it’s coming from, I view “don’t like it don’t do it” as a logical fallacy and just ignore that argument with an eyeroll now. Obviously everything is interconnected here and affects everyone.

[golstat2003]

  21 hours ago, battlewraith said:

The feedback is typically rote. It's the same people, saying the same things, pretty much all the time.

Given the circumstances, anything I would want is going to be seen as a bad idea. This was true on live as well, but there was a much larger population and variety of people. 

Before a certain goblin comes in here and starts complaining that I'm dictating what others are allowed to do, I'm not. I don't care. 

But if you give feedback on an idea, I'll comment on it. A lot of it comes across as bias or poorly reasoned in light of how the game is actually being played by people.

I know that there are constraints that make things unlikely. I'm just talking about an idea. 

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The feedback here has been logical and explains why this is a bad idea. (And often is what's posted in most of those suggestions) That's a good thing for the devs to see. Whether consider implementing this (the more I read this thread the more I think it would terrible for the game and isn't a good idea) the possible negatives are good to let them know about.

HC isn't going to implement anything that brings so many negatives to the game, with little positive aspect.

 

This does nothing to renew any of the low level content so I'm not sure what the point of this is if the argument is that low level content is boring.

 

The folks PLing aren't really going to be interested in low level content unless there is a whole dump load (read 100 new low level missions) added to the game. Some of us have been playing this content for years. And even a system like New Dawn/Cake (which is essentially what you are suggesting here) does not make the low level content any more fun. I just bump myself to 50 while I'm on that server and go do the level 50 content there.

[golstat2003]

  15 hours ago, arcane said:

As a side note, no matter who it’s coming from, I view “don’t like it don’t do it” as a logical fallacy and just ignore that argument with an eyeroll now. Obviously everything is interconnected here and affects everyone.

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It's the same thing the HC devs have said in closed betas at some points. "Don't like it don't do it" has never convinced them as far as I know.

[golstat2003]

  15 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Alternative suggestion for using the term Saga Mode.

 

Saga to me implies a story.

 

I also see this suggestion as a way for Homecoming to put its best foot forward.

 

In terms of setup, the Devs would select what they feel are the best quality story arcs and missions sufficient to bring a character all the way from level 1 through 50.

 

When you select Saga Mode the contacts would automatically be granted with call access and automatically granting the next contact in the selected chain. Finally, the Saga mode missions never level out… you just autoexemp down to the max level for each mission.

 

That’s it. Just the ability to play through what the devs feel is the best content Homecoming has to offer without needing to search it out or accidentally miss it entirely.

 

 

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This seems to be a better idea to entice players to play low level content IMO.

[battlewraith]

  15 hours ago, Excraft said:

How it would break the game has been explained by several posters here over several follow up posts.  You're just deliberately choosing to ignore those posts because they refute your idea.

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Like yours, they are largely expressions of what those posters want. When you or other posters say "nobody is going to want to do this, people that farm up alts aren't going to want to do this, etc." it's just your opinion. It's not empirical fact or anything and it's kind of appalling the extent that posters will eagerly speak on behalf of thousands of players that may feel differently. The point about pvpers in BB or Siren's that someone mentioned would possibly be a hitch. But when I brought up pvp, you summarily dismissed it, waving away the "3 people that still pvp". You're all over the place. Nobody will bother with this, but it's also gambreaking. Your're whiplashing all over the place.

  15 hours ago, Excraft said:

You're doing the exact same thing you're berating someone else for.  Quite clearly there are many different people in the game with many different ideas on how they want to play.  You don't speak for them, nor do you have any idea what the majority of players want. 

 

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LOL please. If you're going to go through all these contortions to put a stake in this idea, appealing to the notion that different people want different things doesn't help your case. And it's blatantly hypocritical. Apparently your free to tell me what other groups of people don't want, but when I suggest that certain groups of people might like something you're clutching your pearls. 

 

Regarding Cake, I believe the most essential thing to a server's success is density of population. Cake I don't think ever had that, so for you to use that as evidence that people don't want any of those things is just dumb. By your logic, the HC servers that are dwindling are doing something wrong because they are shrinking. 

[biostem]

I'm starting to think this thread will have more of a "saga" to it than the original proposal...

[Excraft]

  15 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Like yours, they are largely expressions of what those posters want. When you or other posters say "nobody is going to want to do this, people that farm up alts aren't going to want to do this, etc." it's just your opinion. It's not empirical fact or anything and it's kind of appalling the extent that posters will eagerly speak on behalf of thousands of players that may feel differently.

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Pot meet kettle.

 

  15 hours ago, battlewraith said:

But when I brought up pvp, you summarily dismissed it, waving away the "3 people that still pvp". You're all over the place. Nobody will bother with this, but it's also gambreaking. Your're whiplashing all over the place.

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The Temporal Warrior system didn't break the game or the progression system as those characters are restricted to use within PvP zones only.  Other characters are still required to play the regular game content to outfit the TW PvP characters.

 

  15 hours ago, battlewraith said:

LOL please. If you're going to go through all these contortions to put a stake in this idea, appealing to the notion that different people want different things doesn't help your case. And it's blatantly hypocritical. Apparently your free to tell me what other groups of people don't want, but when I suggest that certain groups of people might like something you're clutching your pearls. 

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Well no, like you, I'm suggesting based on my personal experience that the people you are suggesting will be enticed away from PLing their alts in AE with "saga mode" isn't going to happen.  It just won't.  I don't care if I could get a nuke or headsplitter or whatever else at level 2.  Everyone I know who PLs alts in AE just doesn't like the pre-30 game, and every single one of them plans out builds that take full advantage of the invention system and set bonuses.  They're all doing this because characters kitted out with IOs perform far better, especially when exemplared.  Restricting them to SOs only wouldn't be any kind of enticement for them.  It would have the exact opposite effect.

 

  15 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Regarding Cake, I believe the most essential thing to a server's success is density of population. Cake I don't think ever had that, so for you to use that as evidence that people don't want any of those things is just dumb. By your logic, the HC servers that are dwindling are doing something wrong because they are shrinking. 

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Cake is another server and you know that.  Cake offers a system to totally bypass the level progression system.  If that's so important to you, why aren't you there?  If there are so many people who aren't interested in low level content and want to skip over the progression, why isn't there a larger player population there? 

 

There have been a couple of counter suggestions here to get people playing lower level story arc content that are far more interesting than getting rid of the progression system and restricting people to SOs only.  I'm sorry your idea stinks, but it does. 

[JasperStone]

  15 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Alternative suggestion for using the term Saga Mode.

 

Saga to me implies a story.

 

I also see this suggestion as a way for Homecoming to put its best foot forward.

 

In terms of setup, the Devs would select what they feel are the best quality story arcs and missions sufficient to bring a character all the way from level 1 through 50.

 

When you select Saga Mode the contacts would automatically be granted with call access and automatically granting the next contact in the selected chain. Finally, the Saga mode missions never level out… you just autoexemp down to the max level for each mission.

 

That’s it. Just the ability to play through what the devs feel is the best content Homecoming has to offer without needing to search it out or accidentally miss it entirely.

 

 

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Thank you!

This is what I was trying to say in an earlier response.

Completely  agree with this.

[Wavicle]

The game was made NOT freeform WAAAAAAAAAY back in ALPHA testing in 2003 specifically so that you COULDN'T do stuff like this. Let's not go backwards.

[Rudra]

  14 hours ago, Wavicle said:

The game was made NOT freeform WAAAAAAAAAY back in ALPHA testing in 2003 specifically so that you COULDN'T do stuff like this. Let's not go backwards.

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Back when they saw in testing how it broke the game before release and everyone was making the exact same type of character with no variety in concepts?

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

As always, discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of the suggestion.

 

Please do NOT discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of each other.

 

[battlewraith]

  14 hours ago, Excraft said:

Cake is another server and you know that.  Cake offers a system to totally bypass the level progression system.  If that's so important to you, why aren't you there?  If there are so many people who aren't interested in low level content and want to skip over the progression, why isn't there a larger player population there? 

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Woosh. Because of exactly the reason I said. Population density. I like many people am at HC because this was the first option I became aware of and it retained the largest playerbase as far as I can tell. I'm not going to start over somewhere else because you don't like my suggestion and think I should move. 

 

  14 hours ago, Excraft said:

There have been a couple of counter suggestions here to get people playing lower level story arc content that are far more interesting than getting rid of the progression system and restricting people to SOs only.  I'm sorry your idea stinks, but it does. 

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Then the thread worked out for you. You're welcome. If you think those ideas are good, maybe you or the people posting them can start suggestion threads for those ideas.

[Troo]

  23 hours ago, ZacKing said:

  On 3/13/2025 at 6:11 AM, Troo said:

Would it be a mistake for a low level character to select a long recharge power super early.. probably. Especially if they are only using SOs.

Could there be an issue with players later exemplaring down and having powers slotted up, but even then, without IO set bonuses..

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No IO set bonuses is a flimsy attempt to give the illusion that this "saga mode" is somehow balanced.  It isn't.  Once again, its opening up access to powers at level ranges the content at those level ranges is not designed or balanced for.  No set bonuses will serve no purpose other than to go back to "the old way" of using various pool powers and such to fill gaps as we all did prior to the invention system.  It's nothing "new", just a rehashing of the old.

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I love dodge and re-frame the discussion.

 

Here's what I asked you:

  On 3/12/2025 at 7:16 PM, ZacKing said:

Again, your idea is granting access to powers that the content within the level range isn't designed for.  That's breaking the game no matter how you slice it. 

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Didn't this already happen with the powers shuffle we already saw on Homecoming?

[lemming]

  12 hours ago, Troo said:

Didn't this already happen with the powers shuffle we already saw on Homecoming?

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Less of a shuffle than a compression.  Similar to not having to wait until level 14 for travel powers.