Forum Moderation - give me suggestions and feedback

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

edited to correct obvious misspelling . . . 

Edited 36 minutes ago by GM_GooglyMoogly

 

excellent

and it made me smile big.

[biostem]

16 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

However, as I've had to point out to many people on this forum, I am not responsible for the "tone of voice" that you hear in your head when you read my posts.

To add to this, I actually find it more offensive when someone tries to sugar-coat what they actually want to say, instead of just being upfront and honest...

[Nerio72]

So can you lock your own thread GM_GooglyMoogly or will another GM have to come do it? 😉

[Super Atom]

I got it

 

 

BE EXCELLENT TO SOMEONE

 

 

thread is now closed, anyone who replies after this post likes their peanut butter and jelly on the outsides of the bread

[Excraft]

6 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

One thing I would add is that I believe more people should use more self agency instead of relying on GMs to settle things.

 

I agree with this 100%.  The ignore feature is a wonderful thing.  More people should use it in my opinion.

 

3 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

I understand your point, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to warn or ban someone for calling you a cup of flat diet coke even if you find it personally offensive. 

 

I am sure there is a continuum of insults from flat diet coke to neckbeards to morons to even worse. Maybe I can educate myself on newer insults and their meanings, but I still have to make a judgment call and I only have my own judgment to rely on.

 

You can certainly report anything you find offensive and if you feel I have not made a proper decision you can appeal to Leads and ultimately City Council. 

 

I could very well be wrong, but this reads to me as if our opinion really isn't as important as yours or any GM.  So long as you all don't find something rude of take offense, whatever behavior was reported is acceptable.  That "continuum" of insults can go both ways on many topics.  Now, let me clarify since "intent" is difficult to judge by reading text on an internet forum.  Please allow me to say that I mean no disrespect by making that statement.  I am not looking to start an argument with you, nor am I suggesting you're doing anything wrong.  I'm simply sharing my observation to your post and it is meant as no personal insult toward you or any other GM. 

 

As to the topic at hand, I agree with those who've said just continue what you're doing.

[Skyhawke]

Lot of cups of flat diet coke in here...😁

[PeregrineFalcon]

Ok, now I'd like to ask a question about the appeals process.

 

 

On 3/20/2025 at 11:39 AM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

Be fair in enforcing forum rules/policies, and perhaps provide some feedback and an opportunity to appeal any moderator decisions.  We do try to be fair and any decision can be appealed by filing a support ticket here - https://forums.homecomingservers.com/support/

In the past I was told contradictory things by different GMs. I was told to appeal via Discord, and I was told to appeal via PM. In both cases when I did appeal there was no response.

 

So if I appeal via support ticket can you assure us that someone will respond and that an appeal will actually be considered by someone other than the GM who handed out the sanction in the first place?

[Rudra]

24 minutes ago, Excraft said:

I could very well be wrong, but this reads to me as if our opinion really isn't as important as yours or any GM.  So long as you all don't find something rude of take offense, whatever behavior was reported is acceptable.  That "continuum" of insults can go both ways on many topics.  Now, let me clarify since "intent" is difficult to judge by reading text on an internet forum

To be fair, the GMs have to make judgement calls even if someone reports that something offended them. If they didn't and instead they took action against someone simply because they were reported, then some people would be constantly reporting other individuals as a means of keeping them quiet/off the forums. So yes, GM review has to have greater influence than someone's report. However, again, I'm betting that can be arbitrated on appeal as described by GM² earlier in the thread.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

19 minutes ago, Excraft said:

this reads to me as if our opinion really isn't as important as yours or any GM. 

 

It's not that my opinion is more important; it's that I can only be in my head, not anyone else's.  I can't tell if a poster meant cup of flat diet coke as an insult or a joke and I can't tell if the person reporting that post and telling me that they were personally offended is saying that because they are really offended or trying to get back at the poster for one reason or another.  It's also hard to know if the two posters are friends and tend to talk to each other like that.

 

For example, I love my sisters, but when one of them calls me on the phone I say, "Hello dummy!"  And they respond "Hello stupid!"  And then we chuckle and start our conversation.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

13 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

In the past I was told contradictory things by different GMs. I was told to appeal via Discord, and I was told to appeal via PM. In both cases when I did appeal there was no response.

 

So if I appeal via support ticket can you assure us that someone will respond and that an appeal will actually be considered by someone other than the GM who handed out the sanction in the first place?

 

You can certainly use any of those methods to contact a GM.  But submitting a ticket creates a record that all the GM staff can see.  We do recuse ourselves if the complaint is against us individually .  You should always get some response to a support ticket, but that response may only be that we got your complaint and are looking at it.  A private message here or on Discord may get a quicker response, or no response, but only that person has that message unless they decide to share it with the group.  Personally, I have referred PMs to me complaining of a decision I made to a higher authority. 

 

We do share things and seek each others advice if we think the decision is a close call or controversial.

Edited Friday at 11:09 PM by GM_GooglyMoogly

[Excraft]

9 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

It's not that my opinion is more important; it's that I can only be in my head, not anyone else's.  I can't tell if a poster meant cup of flat diet coke as an insult or a joke and I can't tell if the person reporting that post and telling me that they were personally offended is saying that because they are really offended or trying to get back at the poster for one reason or another.  It's also hard to know if the two posters are friends and tend to talk to each other like that.

 

Thank you for this clarification.  Apologies if my point wasn't clear.  I was more questioning the "continuum of insults" part.  The neckbeard example is a pretty good one in that it is meant as an insult, and from what I can gather it was reported.  Since a GM didn't think someone being called a neckbeard is insulting, no action was taken, so the person who reported it is left feeling like others weren't dealt with fairly.  But whatever.  I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it. 

 

I get that you all don't want people arbitrarily reporting stuff just to silence others as that makes perfect sense. 

 

19 minutes ago, Rudra said:

To be fair, the GMs have to make judgement calls even if someone reports that something offended them. If they didn't and instead they took action against someone simply because they were reported, then some people would be constantly reporting other individuals as a means of keeping them quiet/off the forums. So yes, GM review has to have greater influence than someone's report. However, again, I'm betting that can be arbitrated on appeal as described by GM² earlier in the thread.

 

I wasn't responding to you, nor was I suggesting that GMs should automatically action anything that gets reported just because someone reports a post.  You misunderstood my post. 

[Excraft]

34 minutes ago, Skyhawke said:

Lot of cups of flat diet coke in here...😁

 

I'm sure that there are people here now looking for more obscure insults they can use to skirt the "continuum". 

[Spaghetti Betty]

I don't really have anything constructive to add, so here's an off-topic plate of spaghetti!

 

 

Mmm, tastes like moderation!

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

To be fair, the GMs have to make judgement calls even if someone reports that something offended them. If they didn't and instead they took action against someone simply because they were reported, then some people would be constantly reporting other individuals as a means of keeping them quiet/off the forums. So yes, GM review has to have greater influence than someone's report. However, again, I'm betting that can be arbitrated on appeal as described by GM² earlier in the thread.

This is exactly right.

I was a member of a forum that had the worlds laziest mods.  If someone reported something, they removed the post without reading it.   After a certain magical number of your posts were reported, you got suspended.

 

I made someone mad enough that they went through and reported every post of mine they could find.  Everything from posts about movies/tv shows, to posts I made in the weekly game thread that we posted in while watching our team play.
I haven’t been allowed back on the site for over a year now.

[lemming]

7 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

I understand your point, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to warn or ban someone for calling you a cup of flat diet coke even if you find it personally offensive. 

 

I am sure there is a continuum of insults from flat diet coke to neckbeards to morons to even worse. Maybe I can educate myself on newer insults and their meanings, but I still have to make a judgment call and I only have my own judgment to rely on.

 

You can certainly report anything you find offensive and if you feel I have not made a proper decision you can appeal to Leads and ultimately City Council. 

I'll have to disagree.   One can be very insulting without using any inflammatory words.

[Jacke]

Think this is bad?  Homecoming forums has the nicest and most appropriate moderation.

Way back in the day, the rules of the board wargame Imperium Romanu II (1985) included a section on how to adjudicate rules disputes between the players.  There were 3 options (paraphrased because the game is buried away someplace, so I can't look it up):

• Can't remember the first one.
• The two players should arm themselves and settle the matter like Noble Romans.
• Settle the dispute with the roll of a friendly die.

You're lucky Homecoming didn't decide on going with option 2.  😺

[Ghost]

9 hours ago, lemming said:

I'll have to disagree.   One can be very insulting without using any inflammatory words.

Who decides if something is very insulting?

The recipient of the “insult”?

 

We’ve had people on here try to argue that the “thumbs down” reaction is an insult.  
Maybe you agree with this, I don’t know.  But what comes after that - not giving a “thumbs up”?

 

I thinks Googles is right.  
If you feel insulted, report it.  If you’re being outrageous or overly sensitive, nothing happens.

If you aren’t happy, appeal.

If your still denied, move on.

[TheMoneyMaker]

12 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

I'm sure that there are people here now looking for more obscure insults they can use to skirt the "continuum". 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/top-10-rare-and-amusing-insults-vol-1

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/top-10-rare-and-amusing-insults-vol-2

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

18 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/top-10-rare-and-amusing-insults-vol-1

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/top-10-rare-and-amusing-insults-vol-2

 

GooglyMoogly might be a snollygoster, but at least I ain't no lickspittle!

[TheMoneyMaker]

6 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

GooglyMoogly might be a snollygoster, but at least I ain't no lickspittle!

I'm more of a smelfungus, and maybe a little bit of a slubberdegullion.

 

But my favorite insult among those lists is mediocrist.

[EmperorSteele]

13 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

I don't really have anything constructive to add, so here's an off-topic plate of spaghetti!

 

 

Mmm, tastes like moderation!

I don't think the devs are gonna appreciate you just posting the sauce code like that! =P

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Ghost said:

Who decides if something is very insulting?

The recipient of the “insult”?

 

We’ve had people on here try to argue that the “thumbs down” reaction is an insult.  
Maybe you agree with this, I don’t know.  But what comes after that - not giving a “thumbs up”?

Context.  Some people do bend over backwards to be insulted and then there's a back and forth feedback wave usually, but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't base an insult on certain words, but the actual content and sometimes there is a pattern.

 

(On the thumbs down stuff, there was someone who would go around and hit every random post of a poster with a thumbsdown which is what prompted that iirc.)

[TheMoneyMaker]

50 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

I don't think the devs are gonna appreciate you just posting the sauce code like that! =P

That's not the sauce code, just an image of the sauce code. There's more layers than what you see on the surface at a glance.

[Captain Fabulous]

21 hours ago, Rudra said:

My 2 inf' on GM²? Being a moderator is a tedious and thankless task. As was said by others earlier, you will never make everyone happy. For instance, on some threads I thought you (and the other GMs) were entirely too slow to intervene. On other threads I thought you (and the other GMs) were too fast. (And yes, there are even times when I agreed with when intervention happened.) Moderating isn't a science, it's a series of judgement calls. And everyone has their own biases about when and how to do anything. So just be as fair as possible. And so far, it seems to me like you are.

OK, mark your calendars, kids, because today's the day Rudra and I completely agree on something. 🤣

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

On 3/17/2025 at 9:10 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

Worse was what happened in feedback threads started by the devs asking for feedback. Negative feedback received wave after wave of attacks by the DDL and, once we were finally baited into responding, we would again be temp banned, and our posts deleted, while the DDL would continue to assault other posters unabated. Since the mods were continuing to break in favor of those screaming ". . .leave the poor devs alone. . ." it appeared to many of us that this was what the devs/Homecoming administration wanted.

 

I forgot to comment on the Focused Feedback stuff.   Those threads are not just a discussion among players but between players and the devs, specifically on new content. I moderate Focused Feedback threads a little differently.  To me, it's not whether the feedback is positive or negative; both types are important and that's where we find bugs and other issues.  "I love it!" is just as valid as "I hate it!"  But I will move or remove arguments, bickering, insults, and even negative feedback if that feedback is "you did it entirely wrong, scrap that and follow my 12 point plan" much sooner than I would on a normal thread.

 

Nobody likes to get criticized, let alone having work, which you sank hours of sweat into, criticized.  But the devs really do want to have constructive criticism that will help make the content better.  Calling them idiots, neckbeards, poopyheads or snollygosters is not constructive and just adds noise that makes it harder to find the constructive criticism.  For them, the best feedback is a video or data showing that there's a problem or demonstrating why you hate it. 

 

But even constructive criticism has limits.  Posting the same thing over and over is not helpful.  It does not make your criticism more weighty.  It's just adding noise that makes finding the other constructive criticism harder. 

 

PS - I'm not accusing Peregrine Falcon of doing any of that.  I just quoted it to explain focused feedback thread moderation.